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[DE]Rebecca

Titania's Exalted Weapons + Limbo: A Quick Workshop!

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I grant that folk have all made good points, yet I still have to say, "Really? wtf?"

 

Having a  short stasis is like being a baby sitter, how is this fun to have to watch the clock ...?  sorry DE you messed this up, Cat and and stasis work together, they are now out of sync and watching the clock? like watching a timer instead of the watching the race, sure you get great data to write down but you miss the race. Really I don't want to play without the stasis.

Play is now a watch the clock tick, if you are going to do so, could you at least let the enemy AI enter the damn cataclysm? I watch them sit outside the edge of the bubble and wait, I get to trap maybe three or four enemies. Woo, fantastic, I know I'll just go outside the bubble and kill them...oh wait, I'm limbo, I'll be dead if I do that.

So now I don't want to use limbo, babysitting a clock is not a master of the void, the void is kicking his ass.

Edited by Zar__
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27 minutes ago, ljmadruga said:

With the changes in place, Limbo plays like a more tedious vauban.

And I hate vauban.

I hate Vauban too

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vor 3 Stunden schrieb Zar__:

Having a  short stasis is like being a baby sitter, how is this fun to have to watch the clock ...?  sorry DE you messed this up, Cat and and stasis work together, they are now out of sync and watching the clock? like watching a timer instead of the watching the race, sure you get great data to write down but you miss the race.

You already are on the clock, your time is just reduced. And as you learned to play with the time you now have, so will you learn to play with the shorter time as well

Zitat

Play is now a watch the clock tick, if you are going to do so, could you at least let the enemy AI enter the damn cataclysm? I watch them sit outside the edge of the bubble and wait, I get to trap maybe three or four enemies. Woo, fantastic, I know I'll just go outside the bubble and kill them...oh wait, I'm limbo, I'll be dead if I do that.

So all you can do playing Limbo is Stasis, Cataclysm and wait for enemies to enter?

Sorry but in that case you seem to be one of the less skilled Limbo players and do deserve to have your playstyle ruined. A good player would actually switch to the rift and pull outside enemies with him, stunning them in the process and finishing them off. 

Zitat

So now I don't want to use limbo, babysitting a clock is not a master of the void, the void is kicking his ass.

Limbo is just the tool given at your hand, the real mastery comes with how you use him. 

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Limbo is just the tool given at your hand, the real mastery comes with how you use him. 

Right, 15 seconds, you are tied to a clock that DE set up now to make you need to micro manage Limbo, so your logic fails to match the actually game play mechanic, this is not a micro resource game, its a 1st person fighting game. Perhaps you'd care to test this and record your findings and prove your mastery. Otherwise, no. you have failed to see the problems this creates in game play flow and instead comment on my playing style which you have no knowledge of and just make assumptions.  Well done, you have clearly mastered being a troll.

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5 minutes ago, Zar__ said:

Right, 15 seconds, you are tied to a clock that DE set up now to make you need to micro manage Limbo, so your logic fails to match the actually game play mechanic, this is not a micro resource game, its a 1st person fighting game. Perhaps you'd care to test this and record your findings and prove your mastery. Otherwise, no. you have failed to see the problems this creates in game play flow and instead comment on my playing style which you have no knowledge of and just make assumptions.  Well done, you have clearly mastered being a troll.

Not sure if you know this but if you're used to the timer u don't have to watch it constantly anymore. I always know to look when im at around 3 seconds left and just recast duration abilities I'm used to using

Edited by (XB1)AntiMomentum

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vor 2 Stunden schrieb Zar__:

Right, 15 seconds, you are tied to a clock that DE set up now to make you need to micro manage Limbo, so your logic fails to match the actually game play mechanic, this is not a micro resource game, its a 1st person fighting game. Perhaps you'd care to test this and record your findings and prove your mastery. Otherwise, no. you have failed to see the problems this creates in game play flow and instead comment on my playing style which you have no knowledge of and just make assumptions.  Well done, you have clearly mastered being a troll.

I only hear you whine over 15 seconds (mind you: 15 seconds BASE STAT). You got used to 30 seconds (also base stat) without looking at the timer, built your playstyle around that. Now proof that you are more than a selfish Limbo troll, that you are a skilled gamer and adapt to the new circumstances instead of crying out "DE killed the game!"
No they didn't. They are making the game more enjoyable to everyone, like they always do.
They can't make everyone happy, they always have to find a middle way, which includes breaking some eggs. We had this before and the game survived, now it is your turn to play the egg.

Edited by Serious_Lee
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On ‎2018‎-‎06‎-‎11 at 9:16 PM, skysarmy said:

welp, can't do 3 headshots during aimglide any more, it seems

yaa,,,don't work 3 headshots during aimglide with tis change

 

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When Limbo Revisited happened, I was pretty conflicted about the changes.  Stasis?  Awesome gimmick for solo.  Rift Walk for free?  Unquestionably awesome.  Roll into it?  Worth getting rid of Rift Walk timer.  The long(!) duration of Stasis meant I was "wasting" energy every time I'd release and re-cast, but you can't waste an infinite resource, so it just felt a little bit odd.  Shorter duration only feels weird now because I'm used to the longer.  Why conflicted, then?  Because Limbo was a "mostly solo" frame before the revisit, which only served to solidify that status.

Now, allied ranged weapons give feedback just as those non-Limbo players are likely expecting, rather than just hanging around waiting for Limbo to un-freeze things before somebody else melee-blends your target and wastes your effort.  That's good, but Limbo's still where he was to begin with: "mostly solo".  The Rift is awesome, and Stasis in particular should, on balance, probably have draw-backs, but making all of your team's weapons entirely irrelevant if enemies are in the Rift (or the reverse, if allies don't know about rolling out of the Rift) doesn't feel good for anyone.  That's something that Limbo could easily accidentally do, and should do if he wants to maximize his individual effectiveness and survive-ability.  Having different, even complimentary playstyles for group vs solo is an interesting thought, but I don't think the current Limbo was the result of a conscious decision to that effect.

There are many suggestions that would take varying amounts of work to fix this issue - Peek-a-Boo Rift or Automatic Plane Shifting are relatively close to existing code, and don't require modifications to half of his skills.  Failing those, making Rift Surge be an "in-between" where enemies can interact with both planes would encourage Limbo to share his targets, if not his Rift.  Having Banish then apply to allies only if they opt-in by rolling (with a buff icon to show that it's available) would give other players a way to take advantage of the Rift's strengths while not being co-opted to its weaknesses by a thoughtless Limbo.

TL;DR: Limbo's still not a team pub-friendly frame, but it shouldn't take a whole new re-work to get him there... and if any changes are to be made, the sooner announced the better.

Edit: Changed "team" to "pub-friendly", though the point stands.  Half of his kit is anti-teammate unless your teammates are lucky enough to be relying fully on powers and/or in full voice communication with Limbo.  Even in pre-made teams, if you're expecting to use a weapon at any time, Banish and Surge are your enemies.  It's only Stasis that isn't now.  Woo-hoo.

Edited by mactrent
Over-simplification calls for over-explanation
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18 minutes ago, War321W said:

yaa,,,don't work 3 headshots during aimglide with tis change

 

Or you could just use a shotgun to shoot at a group of enemies while aimgliding.  Yes, it's that easy.  

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Ttania's Dex Pixia base crit chance is reduced from 15% to 10% after update. Was this intended? There was no mention of it...please fix it.

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On 2018-06-11 at 8:11 PM, [DE]Rebecca said:

Limbo's gear and all Ally gear will continue to function

Please revert this back. So that Limbos items are still effected. 

It was a fun and unique mechanic. Sure... dont let allies weapons be stopped... but allow Limbos to control their own.

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1 hour ago, mactrent said:

TL;DR: Limbo's still not a team frame, but it shouldn't take a whole new re-work to get him there... and if any changes are to be made, the sooner announced the better.

I've been a fan of limbo for quite a while now and I have to say that this is an oversimplification, rather than a whole truth. Limbo is a fantastic Team Frame as long as the team is functioning as a team, as opposed to random players. Specifically if they are using their warframe powers rather than gear.

A Limbo/Mesa/Loki team is absolutely insane for any kind of defensive mission. Limbo and Loki work well for speed running spy vaults. Limbo and Nekros are great in Vodyanoi.

What limbo fails at is playing with people who don't understand the mechanics interaction or are not on voice chat to coordinate tactics. Further more if the other peoples warframes are just tanks whose abilities are just about survival or just CC, then yes limbo will be at odds with them. But to call Limbo  a "non-team frame" really doing a disservice to the nuances of Limbos mechanics.

For what it is worth, changing the stasis timer is annoying as hell with no real reason other than needing to Nerf some aspect of limbo to "balance" the gun use while stasis is up. 

Edited by Jade-Lion
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Besides the obvious rework her 1-2-3 skills need, Titania's energy pool is way to low for what her set is intended to be. 

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15 hours ago, Jade-Lion said:

I've been a fan of limbo for quite a while now and I have to say that this is an oversimplification, rather than a whole truth. Limbo is a fantastic Team Frame as long as the team is functioning as a team, as opposed to random players. Specifically if they are using their warframe powers rather than gear. 

Well, that is the TL;DR version.  Simplification is implied. I suppose a better way to put it would be that he's not friendly to pubs, for the reasons you and I both mentioned.

My point remains, though - even if I can now take Limbo to a pub without being griefed or abandoned on sight, I still can't make (anywhere near) full use of his powers in any but a carefully made group without greatly inconveniencing most of my teammates.  Yes, he has awesome perks to offer, but he can also easily and accidentally be an impediment to the team, and I'd like to see that improved, hence the suggestions.

The defense team in your example knew ahead of time that they were going to be with Limbo.  You can't know that in pubs.  The team in your example has damage powers that work across planes, or in Loki's case, are supposedly content with simply utility instead.  And functioning as a team meaning using powers rather than gear?  Harrow can't do much if his weapons don't work reliably.  Trinity can do literally no damage but EV spam or hope she gets hit with Link up (now).  A bubble-frost might be expecting to shoot out from his bubble, rather than modding for Avalanche.  Sonar rather than Quake Banshee is a thing.  Many powers interact with gear.  Players that don't have corrupted mods yet are often going to be dependent on gear by the time you get to mid-levels, no matter their frame.  Gear is a huge part of the gameplay loop for Warframe, so just because there are some cases where it's ok not to use it does not mean I should be able to keep my teammates from using it whenever I want.  It also does not mean I should gain benefits to myself (Rift Torrent) when I do so.

TL;DR: Haven't learned my lesson on simplification.  Limbo can be team-friendly if you happen to have a loadout that benefits from his powers, and if you understand and are willing to deal with the detriments, which you have little to no control over.  Gear is important in Warframe, and powers are not the only way to play as a team.  The above post has suggestions to improve on execution of stated goals for Limbo and how he effects multiplayer in Warframe.

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On 2018-06-12 at 3:46 AM, skysarmy said:

welp, can't do 3 headshots during aimglide any more, it seems

I use Zephyr with the arcs plasmor. Also helps to get a friend to play harrow and chain them. 🙂

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2 minutes ago, GrimMonsoon said:

I use Zephyr with the arcs plasmor. Also helps to get a friend to play harrow and chain them. 🙂

You really want to up your game on that? Get a Sonar based Resonance Banshee involved.  Arca Plasmor on Banshee and Zephyr are positively lethal

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Just now, SixDimensions said:

You really want to up your game on that? Get a Sonar based Resonance Banshee involved.  Arca Plasmor on Banshee and Zephyr are positively lethal

Please stop. I can only get so erect. 

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En 11/6/2018 a las 21:13, (PS4)The_Verethragna dijo:

I'm going to miss freezing my own projectiles in solo play, but I notice that Stasis doesn't have an Augment yet.

That is exactly the point. They couod create an augment to not freeze weapons, but DE knows that limbo players will no use it, so they do the opposite. Let the ability use weapons and reduce the duration, so if s limbo player wants to freeze own wepons have to use the new augment but not recovers the duration. Sonin my opinion this is a nerf to the duration and a lost of one mod spot to put the future new augment.

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I really hated the limbo changes... I would rather have the time for both stasys AND cataclysm to be reduced than just stasys...

because before I could only use 4 and 2 then go out to play the game and have fun!... now I can't, because when I go the stasys is already near the end and I have to refresh it... and when I refresh one, the other is near the end... and it turns into an endless cycle and I have to stay almost afk just managing the defence while the rest of the party have fun... 😕

it would be better with 20s in both!... also I liked a lot stopping bullets in air, but I know that was a pain in the ass for the rest of the team, it would be better if stasys only affected limbo and enemies...

but who am I? just 1 stupid limbo main... the game goes on without me...

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