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[DE]Rebecca

Titania's Exalted Weapons + Limbo: A Quick Workshop!

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Why do you have to nerf Limbo because people are incapable of switching to melee? Way to ruin Limbo for pre-mades.

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58 minutes ago, [DE]Rebecca said:



And Limbo...

Limbo is one of the most complex Warframes - he's more polarizing than a lifetime supply of Forma! He is also one of the most consistently used. The power to stop-time completely is quite strong - but is it cooperative when weapons are affected? Certainly with a coordinated team and well-trained Limbo, the answer is yes. But that's not always the case.

To put Limbo's Stasis in a more cooperative position, it has been changed to only stop-time for Enemies. Limbo's gear and all Ally gear will continue to function. But, because complete time-halting for enemies within the Rift is akin to godly power, the duration of the ability has been shortened overall - from base 30 seconds to 15 seconds. This is of course affected by Mods.

This feels pretty great in testing, requiring more attention if you have Mods that negatively impact Duration, while also allowing free weapon use. We will be monitoring this change closely to see if further tweaks are needed. Expert Limbo players who can easily traverse Rifting will have no trouble with this Duration change.

Cheers, all! This is just a snapshot of some changes coming in the near future (nearer on PC than on Console). It does not preclude other tweaks and adjustments to our beloved Arsenal. We'll be watching for comments, and awaiting practical feedback when the time comes!

 

1

having it so people can use their weapons is a big improvement and means limbo can once again be used in public without fear. He his time stasis was not usable when 'pugging' due to people assuming the limbo is going to troll with it (and some people did) or people would deliberately shoot in the rift to start the time up again, just to mess with the limbo player (or not understand how it works)  

 

I'd like a better explanation to the duration Nerf? I'm not seeing any other reasoning behind this? energy isn't hard to a limbo player to get sure, but I don't see the need to make time stop a really short thing. 

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34 minutes ago, -BM-Inservio said:

Ugh will you puh-LEASE change Limbo's ult to stop it affecting buttons? 90% of the reason I don't play with Limbo's in party is that they think trolling elevator buttons is funny.

use your operator to use buttons

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1 minute ago, Maizaeku said:

That being said, there is no need to use language like asinine because whoever proposed the changes will take that as a personal affront. Not that they should, but simply how people are.

Then so be it! Asinine means extremely stupid or foolish, and I wholly believe that this is a foolish idea. I would very much like to know who keeps making these changes to Warframe and have a very long chat with them. If they take it personally, then perhaps they should do better with warframe's design. I adore limbo. I understand how some people were griefing others with timestop, and letting allies fire while time is stopped really is a fantastic change! However, pairing this with an unneeded nerf just boggles my mind.

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2 minutes ago, Malziel said:

No, it wouldn't. It would be a QoL improvement for people that play with a Limbo. The entire point of a CC frame is to render enemies helpless. I already run max duration on my Limbo because of his ability to lock things down. This is a complete nerf for no reason. I even enjoyed using melee as limbo, because of how fun certain stances are. However you slice this, it's a slap in the face to the people that actually put the work in to make a good limbo build.

Glad someone else understands the enjoyment of the rift boi, and how this kind of removes the amount of skill/precision etc that was required before for when to stasis and such. Also a lot of frames have damaging abilities like mesa 4 can kill enemies through the rift stasis or not. 

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I'm surprised there weren't any better compromises between bullet stop and not messing with allies.

Like....not even bullet "Gates" like Volt?

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8 hours ago, devildevil21 said:

Are you kidding me DE.

 

SECONDARY BLOODY MODS?!

 

Secondary mods DON'T have punch through. This "buff" or "update" will RUIN my main. Those ridiculous corpses blocking my way when piercing through enemies forces me to have punchthrough on every dex pixia build I run. The lack of punchthrough will ruin titania's dps since she can't kill multiple enemies.

 

if you insist that titania must use secondary mods, PLEASE, give Dex Pixia innate punch through.

Now on the other hand, Secondary mods are far more powerful than Primaries.

Maxed Serration (165%) < Maxed Hornet Strike (220%)

Not to mention Lethal Torrent, Primed Target Cracker, Primed Pistol Gambit, and Primed Heated Charge.

Still a little punch through is appreciated.

Also, I hope that isn't the end of the "workshop" Titania gets. Ragdolling bugs her 1 and 3 while Tribute remains the worse out of all of them, plus sluggish casting animations and low energy pool.

Edit: Never mind about Primed Target Cracker (110%), it's slightly weaker than Vital Sense (120%)

Edited by Duality52
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Never had issues adapting to being forced to use melee with Limbo's in the squad, so I can empathize with them. This reads like a bandaid fix.

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1 minute ago, Feltal said:

Why do you have to nerf Limbo because people are incapable of switching to melee? Way to ruin Limbo for pre-mades.

Because when a single Limbo can completely nullify all of some warframes (like Ivara's) powers, that's a sign that something is wrong.  

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Ooh, ooh! Here's an idea! Make it so that they can shoot the enemy like normal, but the enemy doesn't die till the stasis goes down. That way, people don't have to switch to melee AND we can still set up headshot kills to go off at the same time for the riven challenge. Can even do a thing where the enemy's health bar goes a different color or its body goes a different color to indicate it's already dead from damage queued up.

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55 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

If they didn't shorten the duration, then this change would be straight up a buff for Limbo.

Enemies outside of the rift cannot be killed with guns/melee. Cataclysm shrinks with duration which forces enemies in and out of the rift constantly as they run into the edge. This change to allow players' weapons is a QoL, not a buff. You won't be able to kill enemies any faster than before when you were using melee weapons inside cataclysm. 

Also, how can buffing Limbo be a bad thing? He has been a low pick for years and now people are defending nerfing his skills so that he stays where he is at the bottom of the totem pole? I am truely astonished.

Edited by --Q--Voltage
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There’s so many limbo mains on here complaining that limbos kit is just fine and doesn’t need work because they have no problem with him. That’s the issue. Limbo is great for limbo. For everyone else, he’s a burden. If there’s a stray enemy stuck in the rift and the limbo isn’t doing anything to kill that enemy then all 3 of your squad mates are going to be pissed because they have no way of doing anything to that enemy. Can’t shoot it, can’t slash, exalted weapons can’t touch it, the only thing you can do is waste some energy on your abilities that may or may not kill it.

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While I do agree about the Stasis changes for balancing, many of us still want that stopping your own/ally projectile bullets. So make an augment for that maybe? Or maybe make it like holding down the button toggles the functionality of your/ally weapons.during stasis activation.

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Don't really like the way you're planning on neutering Limbo's Stasis here. Very inelegant way to conform to the minorities who refuse to understand how Limbo works. Better to add some visual cues or a buff icon to inform squad-mates that Stasis is online than just rip out the most flavorful part of the ability.

That, among other things that Limbo needs touched up, but I'll leave that to a more "Limbo-centric" post you may make.

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Can we just keep stasis as it is for just limbo but let allies use their gear unhindered?!?

The duration nerf is also a pretty nasty hit but that can be dealt with accordingly.

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vor 3 Minuten schrieb DatDarkOne:

Because when a single Limbo can completely nullify all of some warframes (like Ivara's) powers, that's a sign that something is wrong.  

Abilities bypass stasis,they always did

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1 minute ago, swiftasacoursing said:

There’s so many limbo mains on here complaining that limbos kit is just fine and doesn’t need work because they have no problem with him. That’s the issue. Limbo is great for limbo. For everyone else, he’s a burden. If there’s a stray enemy stuck in the rift and the limbo isn’t doing anything to kill that enemy then all 3 of your squad mates are going to be pissed because they have no way of doing anything to that enemy. Can’t shoot it, can’t slash, exalted weapons can’t touch it, the only thing you can do is waste some energy on your abilities that may or may not kill it.

I thought exalted weapons could go through the void? or at least they used to...

logically all powers *should* work through the rift. 

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If I may, I think there are several other things that could be helpful for Limbo and teamwork:

The first is that I am not sure if having a pure Stasis ability is actually the best for him (hear me out on this one and I'll explain). The concept of Cataclysm is that it is basically a chaotic rift, so it would be interesting to have it function like that with regard to enemies instead of serving as a big do-nothing area for them. In particular, being able to lets say inflict a random status effect on them while in it at random intervals, kind of like a Warp Storm of sorts. The Cataclysm could also stand to be a bit more chaotic feeling when it is collapsed, with ragdolling of enemies and that sort of thing. Stasis makes things a bit too cheesy in general, and I think its overall power actually limits how much power Limbo can be given in the other parts of his kit, which is a negative thing for the frame overall.

With Cataclysm not being as tied to Stasis now, I would propose changing the damage interaction with the shield. Specifically, let allies fire their weaponry through Cataclysm, but give the projectiles a 40-50% damage penalty and convert them to Void damage. This keeps it interesting and sets the ability apart from Frost's Bubble Shield in this regard, while also not replacing Bubble Shield.

So what would I recommend with Stasis then? I would shift the primary focus over to a more supportive role with a dual function, giving Allies in the rift and Limbo flat damage reduction for a duration, and inflicting a random proc on enemies within the Rift (or perhaps just freezing nearby enemies for a short time, that's fine as well). This synergizes better with his overall ability core, allowing a more mobile playstyle as needed, and gives some survivability that is greatly needed to Limbo.

btw, I also understand that since Limbo Prime is likely upcoming with these changes, there is likely some limited time in this regard. Your proposed changes to Stasis are already fairly good, so I have no complaints there. I just think that he should also get some amount of Damage Reduction with said changes to make him less fragile and more combat ready.

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Just now, Serenna187 said:

Abilities bypass stasis,they always did

Not in Ivara's case.  I know this for a fact.  Stasis completely screws all her powers over. 

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Gerade eben schrieb morningstar999:

I thought exalted weapons could go through the void? or at least they used to...

logically all powers *should* work through the rift. 

As i already said further up Abilities do ignore the rift...

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40 minutes ago, ProfRandus said:

no, her exalted weapon is dual smg now, basically exalted dual grakata

She has two exalted weapons. Gun and sword... I can forive you for not oticing because right now the sword is useless.

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PLEASE let Titania have vacuum in razorwing if it's equipped on her sentinel. Her low energy pool combined with having a difficult time picking up energy orbs while flying makes her energy strain way higher than it should be.

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honestly, i don't get this limbo rework from DEs business stand point(as it didn't matter up until he is about to be primed)

i wouldn't call them nerfs of buffs, 
but these changes pleases everyone who hates/dislikes/not a fan of limbo or his play style (ppl who are less likely to buy the prime access)

and just pisses off the actual players who like limbo/his playstyle (who are more likely to buy the prime access packs)

i would suggest DE takes the hydroid Prime route and keep the good thing(limbos duration) as is until for a few weeks/days and monitor it, instead of reducing it in half and drive away potential buyers.

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6 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

Because when a single Limbo can completely nullify all of some warframes (like Ivara's) powers, that's a sign that something is wrong.  

Letting people fire in Limbo's stasis is great. But tacking on a duration nerf feels lazy, thoughtless, and a slap in the face to people that enjoying playing the most dapper of Warframes.

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