Stop encouraging cheesing in elite onslaught

[Ldezzer]

DPS mirage with lenz, DPS inaros, 2 EV Trinity primes : we barely managed to race against the clock at the zone 8 at ESO, with 3% left in the end

Please, stop encouraging cheesing the new gamemode and reduce the efficiency drain : the only way to fight cheesing is not shoving more difficulty down our throat or nerfing too powerful frame, but encouraging using what we like instead of cheesing tactics

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

Yup, instead of finally toning things down a bit on both sides we now got this as new endgame, once again proving we have pretty much powercrept into a corner.

[GPrime96]

ESO’s Efficency drain makes it about as Meta heavy as Eidolons. I remember reaching Zone 11 (After Nidus left at Zone 10) With 2 Valkyr Primes (me and a Partner). Efficency drains way too fast at that high of a Zone. ESO is the best place for nukes now because of the unbalanced Efficency.

[NullSaint]

Wasn't ESO an answer to the people asking for difficult endgame content to test their "skill" and their equipment because everything else was too easy?

[Mixota]

Yupp, and then everyone starting whining about it being too hard, also... 2 EV trins (why 2), inaros (why), and mirage (why), thats not cheesing anything, thats just a bad squad setup.

Edited June 13, 2018 by mix0ta

[sleep]

It has always been like that though, want to farm ? use a meta farm frame, want to do eidolon fast ? use a meta eidolon frame, ect.
and please explain how you want to "encourage" people on to use what they like? since everybody likes diffrent things, its going to be hard to manage.

the game mode is just meta heavy, if you want to complain, just say to make it easier, i doubt people want it to be "easier" though, since people love the game mode so much for its difficulty.

if you want to have fun, and use your favorite frame, do the normal one. easy fix.

Edited June 13, 2018 by sleep

[Ldezzer]

1 minute ago, NullSaint said:

Wasn't ESO an answer to the people asking for difficult endgame content to test their "skill" and their equipment because everything else was too easy?

Yeah, but i used my best gear - max modded frame, max modded weapons, and yet we were barely successful to reach zone 8

I don't want to stick to saryn/premade squade in onslaught, i want to prove me and my gear strong enough to take on the challenge

[Drachnyn]

To me your team comp seems terrible: 

First of all why do you have 2 EV Trinitys? One is enough and in my experience you are better off with running a hybrid Trinity anyway.

What even is a DPS Inaros? Do you mean fighting with your melee weapon?

The Lenz doesn't have nearly enough range to be massclear in ESO. You would be better off with a strong high range melee Weapon.

 

Also: Warframe with great AoE abilities are not cheesing ESO, they are doing what they were intended to do. ESO was designed for those frames. Do also call Frost in Mobile Defense cheesing because that's what he is great at? Or Oberon in Defection? With how many different Frames we have it should be obvious that they have their strengths in different mission types. 

[Ldezzer]

Tell me, why i should stick to the meta in a gamemode that was supposed to be here for fun?

This is not Bere - i want it to be difficult, but not so much that i can only complete it with cheesing

[Mixota]

Which would either entail balancing it for the weakest frame possible so that it would be possible with all frames, making it trivial for every other frame, or disabling abilities and balancing for weapons, and you'd still have to balance it for the weakest possible weapon, every single game there is has a meta, why would warframe be different.

[Mixota]

It was supposed to be fun in the fact it was difficult, which it is.

Also since is bere difficult.

You got to wave 8 without a dps frame (25% mirage doesnt count), that seems easy enough to me.

Edited June 13, 2018 by mix0ta

[Ldezzer]

3 minutes ago, Drachnyn said:

To me your team comp seems terrible: 

First of all why do you have 2 EV Trinitys? One is enough and in my experience you are better off with running a hybrid Trinity anyway.

What even is a DPS Inaros? Do you mean fighting with your melee weapon?

The Lenz doesn't have nearly enough range to be massclear in ESO. You would be better off with a strong high range melee Weapon.

 

Also: Warframe with great AoE abilities are not cheesing ESO, they are doing what they were intended to do. ESO was designed for those frames. Do also call Frost in Mobile Defense cheesing because that's what he is great at? Or Oberon in Defection? With how many different Frames we have it should be obvious that they have their strengths in different mission types. 

Mirage HAS DPS nuke ability - prism. It was mass-murdering enemies while i was running around killing clusters with Lenz.

I've been sitting for hundreds of hours at Bere - if you think ESO needs no change, then sure you can justify Bere, since its also needs "specific composition" outside which you can't do anything

[(PSN)Oracle-Raven]

The #1 problem with ESO is that you always lose because the game DOESN'T SPAWN ENOUGH ENEMIES for you to kill and maintain efficiency, not because the enemies were too hard and ended up killing you.

You should be waist-deep in enemy bodies constantly, and not have to search for enemies to kill all the time...

And you know what the darnest thing of all is? ESO is the game mode with the highest enemy spawn in the game...
You kill more enemies in 8 waves of ESO than in an entire sortie filled with Survival and Defense missions.

If ESO should spawn a lot more enemies, imagine the rest of the game. ESO has made the rest of Warframe look bad. Plains of Eidolon is a barren wasteland by comparison, and regular missions are a joke now, even the high level ones.

It's really not boding well for the Venus open world map if enemy spawns are this scarce in Warframe.

[theraot]

Other games would use the ranking as a way to push people... you can just complete the game with a low ranking. But the ranking is telling you that you can do better, and often there is some reward for doing so. I suggest Warframe do the same:

- Reduce efficiency drain.
- Give extra Synthetic Eidolon Shard (regardless of rotation) based on the ranking.
- Allow to exchange Synthetic Eidolon Shard for Simaris standing.

That way, you can get rewards with less metagameplay, but there is still encouragement in pushing the efficiency.

---

The issue with only reducing the efficiency drain is that this just becomes easy. Perhaps that is what you want, but then I would say, do not play elite.

The issue with just boosting the focus is that you are just giving more rewards for the same effort (at least to people playing the mata).  However, that would mean that people would reach max focus faster... 

Instead, by giving extra shards instead of focus, and allowing them to be exchanged for simaris standing, then there is not a cap for how much you can get (you can always get stuff from simaris and you can always sell that stuff).

[Mixota]

2 minutes ago, Ldezzer said:

Mirage HAS DPS nuke ability - prism. It was mass-murdering enemies while i was running around killing clusters with Lenz.

I've been sitting for hundreds of hours at Bere - if you think ESO needs no change, then sure you can justify Bere, since its also needs "specific composition" outside which you can't do anything

You have 25% against a freaking inaros, and bere is piss easy with a variety of frames.

The reason it was hard is because you had no frames capable of actually killing stuff rapidly in a game mode designed around killing enemies quickly.

 

[sleep]

Just now, Ldezzer said:

Tell me, why i should stick to the meta in a gamemode that was supposed to be here for fun?

This is not Bere - i want it to be difficult, but not so much that i can only complete it with cheesing

ummm, DE made 2 game modes of it for that reason, you want to have fun, do the normal one, you want to do the difficult one, do the Elite one. It is then up to you if you want to test your loadout and see if you scale good enough or to reach the top of the leaderboard and get the most reward, in which you choose to NOT use the meta and test your loadout, meaning you will automatically scale lower, EVERY game is always like this, the meta will score higher than every other strategy, which is why (duh) its called a meta.

 

[Ldezzer]

Just now, (PS4)Oracle-Raven said:

The #1 problem with ESO is that you always lose because the game DOESN'T SPAWN ENOUGH ENEMIES for you to kill and maintain efficiency, not because the enemies were too hard and ended up killing you.

You should be waist-deep in enemy bodies constantly, and not have to search for enemies to kill all the time...

And you know what the darnest thing of all is? ESO is the game mode with the highest enemy spawn in the game...
You kill more enemies in 8 waves of ESO than in an entire sortie filled with Survival and Defense missions.

If ESO should spawn a lot more enemies, imagine the rest of the game. ESO has made the rest of Warframe look bad. Plains of Eidolon is a barren wasteland by comparison, and regular missions are a joke now, even the high level ones.

It's really not boding well for the Venus open world map if enemy spawns are this scarce in Warframe.

This - we were constantly nuking everyone zone to zone, then last 2 zones were way too large : enemy were scattered around, and we had no ability to kill them faster. The whole difficulty of elite sanctuary onslaught is bound to not enough enemies being spawned. We actually were successfull and killing enemies constantly, and only the last 2 zones screwed up everything with laughable spawns scattered around giant maps

[Mixota]

You probably shouldnt include a post mission picture and then state you were killing stuff quickly, when the picture is literal proof you werent.

[sleep]

And also, DE never wanted to encourage the cheese meta, its the players that always make these metas, infact, all of the recent saryn changes and trin changes are due to the cheese meta.

2 minutes ago, sleep said:

ummm, DE made 2 game modes of it for that reason, you want to have fun, do the normal one, you want to do the difficult one, do the Elite one. It is then up to you if you want to test your loadout and see if you scale good enough or to reach the top of the leaderboard and get the most reward, in which you choose to NOT use the meta and test your loadout, meaning you will automatically scale lower, EVERY game is always like this, the meta will score higher than every other strategy, which is why (duh) its called a meta.

 

 

[Drachnyn]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Ldezzer:

Mirage HAS DPS nuke ability - prism. It was mass-murdering enemies while i was running around killing clusters with Lenz.

I've been sitting for hundreds of hours at Bere - if you think ESO needs no change, then sure you can justify Bere, since its also needs "specific composition" outside which you can't do anything

Prism is that good of a nuke ability because you had less kills than your Inaros. And the other part is just a strawman arguement which I do not care for.

[Ldezzer]

i am NOT against the meta - im against meta being the ONLY way to get rewards from this gamemod

I am totally ok with volt, saryn and their AoE nukes, i did elite sanctuary onslaught in a premade DPS volt EV trin Buff rhino and Equinox squad, and i wanted to play in pub with mirage prime atleast once to mix things up, and i've got punished for not using a frame that can instakill stuff through the wall across the whole map in a seconds.

Meta makes people burn out, especially in game with no linear progression like warframe : i want to improve in every single way, and always play with different frames/weapons maxing their potential. Why should i punished?

 

[GPrime96]

16 minutes ago, (PS4)Oracle-Raven said:

And you know what the darnest thing of all is? ESO is the game mode with the highest enemy spawn in the game...
You kill more enemies in 8 waves of ESO than in an entire sortie filled with Survival and Defense missions.

If ESO should spawn a lot more enemies, imagine the rest of the game. ESO has made the rest of Warframe look bad. Plains of Eidolon is a barren wasteland by comparison, and regular missions are a joke now, even the high level ones.

It's really not boding well for the Venus open world map if enemy spawns are this scarce in Warframe.

This is one of the things i hate about the missions in this game. ESO have the spawn rate a Survival should have. Zabala’s and Taveuni’s Spawn rate is close enough and i reach over a hour in Zabala without any Radar mods (Vigilante Offense, Enemy Radar, Enemy Sense, and Animal Instinct) but the spawns was slow after 40 mins. The Enemies was at lvl 180+ though. Mot, Tycho, Selkie don’t have ESO level of spawn rate at all so it makes them pointless to play compare to ESO.

Edited June 13, 2018 by VPrime96

[DrBorris]

I actually think it is good that there is a game mode for AoE mass murder. Not every mode is for every playstyle. If anything I think DE should embrace different game modes have different niches more, not making everything a one-size-fits-all. To this point, more game modes should be brought up to the level of ESO in terms of rewards.

 

*glares at Kuva Survival being a sad excuse for "rewarding" endurance*

[failedtodiet]

ESO is actually Entirely Saryn's Onslaught. Lets just hope new system requirement changes will allow DE to increase spawn rate in normal missions so we can have fun killing hordes outside of ESO. 

[Xaero]

They encourage cheesing to nerf it later so relax.