[PC] Update 23: Visual Accessibility UI Themes and General UI Feedback Megathread

[Blakrana]

2 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

I guess dyslexia isn't all that common.

The reason I know about it, and can kinda relate it to colourblindness, is because my sister has dyslexia and I made it my mission to teach her how to read. Whenever she struggled she always described the problem as a word looking like another word, so yeah.

I just worry that a lot of people have an outdated and unrealistic view on what colourblindness is.

At least there's the monochromatic theme, at the very least that should be usable by anyone. For me, personally, I'm really liking the Orokin one. The contrast between orange(?) and white is certainly more pronounced than say, green on green.

Familiar with dyslexia, just never seen one compare colourblindness with dyslexia despite, as you note, their having a similar aspect. At Uni when I was GM, I set about making a character sheet to try and help clear up what went where, so there wasn't as much risk of confusing words for stuff; even if the word looked weird, if it had a special place, then it wasn't too hard to keep it together. Least, that was the theory.

And yeah...outdated seems about right. Say you're colourblind and the first thing people ask is if you see in black and white only. It's more nuanced than that, but that's the perception that exists in the common sphere. Then there's the people who use the fact it's more complicated as an excuse to accuse you of lying when you get it right, or being an idiot when you get it wrong...even had one case where an arsehole decided to hit me for not being able to tell them what specific colour something was. So...yeah, in retrospect, does have a lot of similarities to dyslexia, thinking about it.

Can't say for what works at the moment personally, not been on since the update. Just...yeah...there's some irony that what may likely work for colourblindness on Contrast grounds, are other selections. That and it'd be really fitting to find out that the words are actually some kind of yellow or something. Cause, you know, colourblindness...

Otherwise, really sweet you helped your sister learn to read. May not be the matter at hand, but eh, appreciate the warm and fuzzies where one can really.

Apologies for going on, any rate, as always.

[[DE]Danielle]

9 hours ago, Blakrana said:

Not to be a jerk, but you do realise that the most common form of Colourblindness is Deuternopia, the form of Red-Green colourblindness that is weighted more toward difficultly distinguishing greens? That being Red-Green colourblind (Protonopia and Deuternopia) makes things that are Red, Green, Brown and the like hard to differentiate?

Ergo, this mostly green slate is less about contrast, and more about "can you pick apart different shapes?" than colour. Whilst symbols+colour are the aim to ensure people can follow without loss of information, as you learned with showing if lockers and doors are locked or not, the fact that we are, once again, looking at something like this really begs the question; do you have any colourblind staff members, relatives or friends you could ask for input on these things?

Failing that, a Workshop asking for help on colourblind friendly UI certainly wouldn't be a bad idea as it at least helps get the conversation going before the error needs to be rectified after the fact.

I apologise if this comes across as somewhat harsh...but seeing as I am red-green colourblind, a singularly green interface doesn't actually make my life easier with menu navigation. The "Equinox" is superior purely on the grounds that Black and White are actually contrasting tones than what the "High contrast" has to offer us.

Hopefully, as we found with the Mod Stars, lockers and doors, you'll be willing to listen and take the feedback into account to make something better suited to the different forms of colourblindness than trying to argue that one green screen will be suitable for all involved. If it was, we wouldn't see games offering the four filters of Default, then Protonopia, Deuteranopia and Tritanopia when it comes to those that do provide colourblindness settings.

Any event, sorry for going on, as always.

Hey Blakrana! Nothing wrong with honesty! The best way we can improve on these themes (and the overall UI changes) is getting thoughts from our color blind players. We use software that helps mimic how someone who is color blind might see these screens, but that is absolutely not the ideal (or only) way for us to capture how someone might experience and navigate the UI. So your feedback is very much appreciated.

We definitely want to improve the High Contrast theme, so we've made some alterations and would love to hear your thoughts. The image on the left is the current High Contrast Theme, while the image on the right is what we're currently working on on the Dev build based on feedback: 

Thank you so much! 

 

Edit: Here's a bigger image of the WIP theme changes:

 

[[DE]Danielle]

3 hours ago, iamnuff1 said:

Probably already been mentioned, but 

 

 

The style is good, but clarity is more important. 

This will be fixed in the next hotfix! 🙂

[Chisah]

deploying extractors looks very messy atm, due to the description windows not being solid mostly
see below:

Edited June 15, 2018 by Chisah
I just saw the reply from Danielle as I posted it

[Chisah]

my pinch of salt about themes friendly for visually impaired people - I personally see black/dark font against light background best
most of the current schemes are beautiful but very hard for me to tell things apart from at the moment

the Orokin scheme works wonders for my form of sight-related setup, as I am sure counts for more people
so perhaps take it from there if it helps others too

[ngrazer]

3 hours ago, Agnitrix said:

I'd prefer that the squad member details in the Esc menu show without hovering so that I can see all names and loadouts all at once (as well as fill up the very empty feeling space) since they already condense into icons outside of that menu while in the orbiter and in mission.

This. 

[Blakrana]

4 minutes ago, [DE]Danielle said:

Hey Blakrana! Nothing wrong with honesty!

Fair, though per having a tendency to be brutally honest at times, I'm cautious in case I step a little too far; critique is no use if it's destructive, as learned in my own creative efforts.

Still...as for the matter at hand:

15 minutes ago, [DE]Danielle said:

We use software that helps mimic how someone who is color blind might see these screens, but that is absolutely not the ideal (or only) way for us to capture how someone might experience and navigate the UI. So your feedback is very much appreciated.

In regards to filter software, I think it's worth remembering that it's still being seen by people who largely aren't colourblind, so it's useful to have someone of the type being tested to tell you if what they're seeing has changed at all. So, for sake of example, the image below has four spaces; for me, the top two images are identical, due to my deuteranopia. However, for someone with protanopia or tritanopia, they'd pair up the images differently.

Perhaps use something like that for workshops to find what is/isn't working on colour matters.

Spoiler

Quote

 

Quote

Whilst the green/yellow writing is easier to see per it contrasting to the blue background, but that needs to be uniform; whatever your background is, your text cannot be the same colour, or in the same colour family, to serve as a contrast.

Blue - Yellow or Blue - Orange is clear, least speaking as a Deuteranope. Blue - Blue is...useless. And Blue - Red is immediate grounds for eye strain as it triggers an obnoxious "popping" effect whilst not at all being clear what the foreground is.

Apologies if not clear in how I've relayed points, as it stands.

I've also been told courtesy of mum, that apparently, the original "green/green" I was seeing of the initial version of High Contrast was actually some kind of Red/Orange combo so...yeah...Colourblindness in action there.

[Archeyef]

Looks like Baro's Ware-os screen was one of the screens included at launch. Small issue I have, you need to mouse over each individual item to see how much it'll cost. It's kinda small, but it stood out for me for a reason of convenience.

My friend works long rotations away from home, and I often send him screenshots of Baro's inventory if he's away when Baro's at a Relay, so he knows what's available and what it all costs. Mostly so he can prioritize things, due to even more limited available playtime. Or if he asks me to get something for him. The current setup makes this much more difficult and time consuming to do.

I realize this is a small and personal gripe, but it'd really be nice if we could still see Baro's prices at-a-glance.

[Mak_Gohae]

2 hours ago, Wephrix said:

Today when i went to check out the items that Baro has to offer, i notice what in the new UI design there's no currency info in the Baro's market screen (like Credits and Ducats available) like the previous UI version. i hope you can fix this 😄

 

1 hour ago, Syvarin said:

The three issues I've noticed so far:

• Not showing squad information makes it harder to ensure relic groups are using the right ones.
• Trading with Baro doesn't show how many Ducats you have.
• Not showing item names without hovering makes selling prime parts for Ducats a pain.

I applaud the effort to give us an updated interface but there are times "cleaning it up" by removing information is bad.

Ducats are on the top right. 

[Dreugui]

I would like to see my ducats when i'm in the baro slid

Edited June 15, 2018 by Dreugui

[Syvarin]

10 minutes ago, Mak_Gohae said:

 

Ducats are on the top right. 

They are now. The messages you're responding to were both posted before Hotfix 23.0.2 added them there.

[DeMonkey]

1 hour ago, [DE]Danielle said:

~snip~

Adding to @Blakrana's own comment, the yellow(?) absolutely stands out from the purple background, but having purple writing and icons on top of that is an issue.

The ''sample'' bit is particularly problematic, it's not visually comfortable at all. I can feel myself having to strain to differentiate the icon and text from the background behind it due to the lack of contrasting colours, which for a high contrast theme is... not really the idea.

The reason why the monochromatic one (and to some extent, the Orokin one) work are because things are contrasted well. For example:

With the Monochromatic one you have a black background and lightish grey icons and text, followed by full white for the main text. Both the light grey and white writing are easily distinguishable from the black background.

With the Orokin you have a white background, black icons and text and a rather vibrant orangey colour for the main text (although I wouldn't say no to it being a bit darker if at all possible). Again, both the black and (to a large extent) the orange text are easily distinguishable from the white background.

On a non colourblind note, the opacity of some things seems a little low, most notably the built item notifier.

Edit: Another example.

Edited June 15, 2018 by DeMonkey
Reasons.

[allcool123]

1. baro ki'teer trading - not shown ducats/credits ballance in new UI, it's hard to purchase an items

2. new inventory/trading without names - as soon as most of prime parts have similar icons, you should check all to chose what you want to sell

3. no warframe/weapons names in ESC menu - very hard to understand who are you playing with

[Mak_Gohae]

1 hour ago, Syvarin said:

They are now. The messages you're responding to were both posted before Hotfix 23.0.2 added them there.

They were for me when I played. My post here an hour before theirs was after I finished my session. 

8 minutes ago, allcool123 said:

1. baro ki'teer trading - not shown ducats/credits ballance in new UI, it's hard to purchase an items

 

Top right. 

[NotVayHek]

Hiding the names for items is honestly a stupid change; you wouldn't hide the filenames on your system and only show the names for the one file you were currently selecting.

[Zgwortz]

1 hour ago, Blakrana said:

Whilst the green/yellow writing is easier to see per it contrasting to the blue background, but that needs to be uniform; whatever your background is, your text cannot be the same colour, or in the same colour family, to serve as a contrast.

Blue - Yellow or Blue - Orange is clear, least speaking as a Deuteranope. Blue - Blue is...useless. And Blue - Red is immediate grounds for eye strain as it triggers an obnoxious "popping" effect whilst not at all being clear what the foreground is.

Apologies if not clear in how I've relayed points, as it stands.

I've also been told courtesy of mum, that apparently, the original "green/green" I was seeing of the initial version of High Contrast was actually some kind of Red/Orange combo so...yeah...Colourblindness in action there.

The original was Red/Orange?   Oh wow... it looked green/green to me too.  This is why they never let me pick the colors in the UI work I've done... (and why color picker in Photoshop is my friend...) 😛

I have to double emphasize what is said here - when picking colors for high contrast, the foreground and background should have markedly different hues -- ideally opposite in HSV space with similar saturation, so blue - yellow, cyan - red, magenta - green.  It also should have at least 30% (ideally 50% or more) different V levels so that it's still readable when you take out all the saturation (as some completely colorblind people need...).    The new blue-blue variation is fine for the yellow text, but not so fine with just about anything else.

[Bathynomus]

7 hours ago, (XB1)Aye Dave II said:

IIRC it was stated that the UI was going to be shipped in waves, it seems no one is taking that into consideration and are just assuming this is the full and final UI update. (Console tenno two cents)

Why do it in waves if it's going to be just terrible before completely done? In its current state, it's just awful to do anything that includes using menus or inventory, or anything containing information we used to be able to see.

[DiBBz]

@[DE]Danielle

any word on if squad UI will be changed to consistently show everyone's equipment in the squads loadout ? having to press ESC and then individual hover over the other 3 squad members makes it painfully annoying 

[Beauty_Nova]

Are you still planning to avoid item labels?

[tucker_d_dawg]

Here's another "What where you thinking" example:

1. The mods and their associated text is miniscule (I can't wait to get this on console and have to walk up to the tv to read the labels) - just lose 1 column and make everything a tad bigger. Note that is for where you DIDN'T cover up what the name of the mod is.
   Which brings me to:
2. - WHAT? REALLY why did you cover the name of the mod where there is PLENTY of space above and below the mod in each box to fit "REQUIRES PARTNER" without covering up the mod name- so again we needlessly have to click over each mod to see what syndicates we are not members of have in their inventory.

 

[W4cky]

Original issue, no longer an issue.  Can't wait to get more of the UI though.  

Edited June 16, 2018 by W4cky

[tprx]

I didn't go through the mega-thread to see if similar comments have been posted, sorry if it has.

I find difficult to see how many remaining empty weapon slots I have in my inventory due to what I believe is a lack of contrast. Now contrast could be adjusted, but I'd rather have the ancient method of writing "Empty slot" in the square/ Since it's not a weapon design, the contrast is immediate and does not need to be adjusted.

Here is a picture of my present weapon inventory (well, the bottom of it):

Notice how the "empty slot" square is not much different from the "possibly future slots". I also noticed clicking on the "possible future slot" does not bring up an option to buy more weapon slots. Did we lose the (active) ability to do so? So the only time I can buy a weapon slot now is when I try to buy a weapon when there's no active slots (passive way to do this)?

Also, I'd like to be able to search through my weapons by mastery rank (an option for increasing MR, and one for decreasing MR).

And finally, please add a top button and a bottom button on the slider to get directly to the beginning or the end of the list. I know clicking on the slider does that, but since most of us are used to how window sliders look and work, that would be a bonus. Though that would be at the bottom of the list of priorities :)

 

[tprx]

Have we lost the ability to change from public to solo while in a squad? Now you have to leave the squad, THEN change to solo. I think that's a step backward. Before, you clicked solo, that would a) change from public to solo mode, b) make you insta-leave the squad.

[TzXtetriC]

Please add

Item titles on every thumbnail

Load out list for everyone when you press ESC in a squad

Small mastered icon in top right corner of thumbnails to see what you have maxed and what is not

More distinguished empty slot color to the one you have to buy to unlock

Please next UI screen, arsenal and trading with people " the main 5 slots screen when you ready the trade. Give us the chance to trade more than 5 items at once

Modding frames is horrible when you hover the mouse on a mod at the bottom row and selects the top one because it zooms out x10 big

Edited June 16, 2018 by TzXtetriC

[Zaumi]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb tucker_d_dawg:

Here's another "What where you thinking" example:

1. The mods and their associated text is miniscule (I can't wait to get this on console and have to walk up to the tv to read the labels) - just lose 1 column and make everything a tad bigger. Note that is for where you DIDN'T cover up what the name of the mod is.
   Which brings me to:
2. - WHAT? REALLY why did you cover the name of the mod where there is PLENTY of space above and below the mod in each box to fit "REQUIRES PARTNER" without covering up the mod name- so again we needlessly have to click over each mod to see what syndicates we are not members of have in their inventory.

 

1. THIS! Same issue with Baros shop. The new display of the mods in shops is much to small. WHY?

2.  If you coose to list up the items per rank (not by name), all warframemods ARE in order of their names, not like before in order of the warframes (e.g. before at first came alle mods of Ash, then all mods of Banshee,...  Now we have alle warframemods in a row, but it begins mit the mods whose names begin wit "A", then the mods whose names begin with "B" and so on. That means I can't make a quick browse which syndicate offers which mods for which frame. Sure, I can type the name of the warframe in the searchoption and then all mods of this frame show up, but if I don't know the offerings of the syndicate I cannot have a quick look. I'm not really sure if this is a bug or intended.

3. Bring back the names of the items in the inventory, the ducatshop, the syndicateshop and so on. PLEASE!

 

(Sorry for my possible bad English, it's not my native laguage.)