[Spoilers] The Sacrifice quest - My honest feedback

[LuckyCharm]

Hey guys, I just wanted to drop my feedback on the quest, and bear in mind that this is just my personal opinion of how I felt about it. 

 

For starters the story was rather great, I liked the whole ballas torturing umbra scenes, I thought they were sad and rather moving. I felt bad for the poor guy and it made me rather bloodthirsty for wanting to kill ballas for that. It was even more compelling since his son didn't seem to be in on the idea that he was going to die for it either, but didn't even run away or even try to avoid it, he just accepted it because it was his father. The plot "twist" that happened at the end I had seen years ago. I'd always thought she was evil and never did quite trust her. I was glad she'd finally shown her true colors. 

 

The missions.

The addition of ghouls was really random, it rather annoyed me spawning into the mission and they were already ambushing me on the platform as I loaded in, and they did considerable damage since I'd brought a frame and focus school for looks and operator use rather than combat, but I managed to dispatch them after (thankfully I was khora) venari did her thing and killed them so I didn't have to.  

Finding the umbra pieces was a little hard too, they weren't marked and the beautiful foliage was obscuring my view of them a rather large amount, since they were blending into the background colors and the grasses were rather tall.  

Umbra fights.. oh god the umbra fights. My operator was decked out with all the passives and a good damage skill and he still murdered me in seconds, with little to no way to retaliate. Void blast did nothing to him, and my grenades do self damage so having to be up close with him I had to try and void dash away when he paused his attacks to go and radial javelin. That or try to use my secondary attack and then die, before quickly ejecting and trying to chip him away again. Not too fun as an operator vs a warframe but at least they were fast fights. 

 

My issues with the quest:

I came away from it feeling extremely bitter. After all that faffing about trying to find umbra, become his partner, and then find ballas.. you don't even get a boss fight. Just more foxing mimics and then a cutscene you have no control over. I wanted to kill him for what he'd done and all he made me wait and quest for. And the choice was taken from me anyway. Sure it was a great scene with umbra and everything.. but it's just not the same as getting to do it or at least choose yourself. Even in the war within I got to pick how the queen died. Even if I didn't get to kill teshin for betraying me. 

Nothing about the story though changed very much of your perspective at all, and your operator is still exactly the same as she was pre-sacrifice, the lotus is still her annoying hologram, and my tenno for some reason still listens to everything that stupid thing says even though she knows the lotus is evil now. After all those months wait we still have to put up with the hologram lotus like nothing has changed in the past two quests and we still have to wait to see if it's going to change or not in future quests. 

The choices towards alignment also didn't make sense, like "it was inevitable" was really all she said, and ballas was all "yeah it was predicted." She could at least have said "it was unavoidable. But this is only the beginning." or something prophetic instead of just standing there while he monologued.

 

My verdict : 5/10. It felt just like a quest for any random warframe. Harrow's was just as compelling, if not more immersive with how the sound and lighting was done, and it was just as dark a story as this one. Didn't really feel like a cinematic quest, since it wasn't really cut scene driven for the most part. At least it didn't feel like it was. I was really confused where the "cinematic" quest came into it other than the part where my operator walked into the operating room, since most of the character dialogue for everything was done via transmission

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, LuckyCharm said:

Umbra fights.. oh god the umbra fights. My operator was decked out with all the passives and a good damage skill and he still murdered me in seconds, with little to no way to retaliate. Void blast did nothing to him, and my grenades do self damage so having to be up close with him I had to try and void dash away when he paused his attacks to go and radial javelin. That or try to use my secondary attack and then die, before quickly ejecting and trying to chip him away again. Not too fun as an operator vs a warframe but at least they were fast fights. e into it other than the part where my operator walked into the operating room, since most of the character dialogue for everything was done via transmission

NOTHING about the third Umbra fight is fun. You know what I found out about him? HE IGNORES VOID MODE. He would even instakill me during void dashes with radial javelins. You know, the attack that would be best avoided using void dash to get out of its range. Because giving the player a tool that has been advertised as "you can be invincible as long as you are hiding" and then making the only enemy it would be useful against ignore it entirely is totally a fair handicap after the player has already been handicapped by being forced into Operator mode.

And he can jump onto platforms at almost the same speed as you can. Keep in mind, in the second fight he would have to climb the stairs to change from the first and second floors, during which time he was vulnerable. Plus he had slash dash to close the distance afterward, so the player still had to watch out for retaliation. But in the third fight you don't get this moment if you dash up to the platforms, he just follows you at your same speed. All you've done is waste a precious void dash.

Operator mode is all about managing your two energy bars, but the Umbra fight never rewards using them correctly, punishing you regardless of what you succeed or fail at and just forcing you to respawn to win

[LuckyCharm]

3 minutes ago, TARINunit9 said:

NOTHING about the third Umbra fight is fun. You know what I found out about him? HE IGNORES VOID MODE. He would even instakill me during void dashes with radial javelins. You know, the attack that would be best avoided using void dash to get out of its range. Because giving the player a tool that has been advertised as "you can be invincible as long as you are hiding" and then making the only enemy it would be useful against ignore it entirely is totally a fair handicap after the player has already been handicapped by being forced into Operator mode.

And he can jump onto platforms at almost the same speed as you can. Keep in mind, in the second fight he would have to climb the stairs to change from the first and second floors, during which time he was vulnerable. Plus he had slash dash to close the distance afterward, so the player still had to watch out for retaliation. But in the third fight you don't get this moment if you dash up to the platforms, he just follows you at your same speed. All you've done is waste a precious void dash.

Operator mode is all about managing your two energy bars, but the Umbra fight never rewards using them correctly, punishing you regardless of what you succeed or fail at and just forcing you to respawn to win

Pretty much nail on the head there, but he also stagger locks you with his exalted blade which is how he kept killing me too. Literally couldn't move because he hits you though void mode with it, and you can't dash or cast anything because you're in stagger animation. It wasn't a fun fight, and the months of prep with getting my operator ready for it felt like they were wasted. It was as you said, just respawn and fire, respawn and fire

[Shoelip]

It feels like you haven't been paying very much attention during the quests.  Teshin didn't betray you in The War Within.  He was mind controlled to work against you but managed to work around it to give you the power to defeat him and the queens.  The Lotus isn't "evil" either.  Unless you consider the Orokin good.  Or your definition of "good" is just "whatever I personally want."

I personally didn't have much trouble with the Umbra fight.  I just tried to avoid him and he didn't kill me once.  It's a bit odd to me that so many people had so much trouble, especially you as you with all the passives.  I guess they don't like playing Operators because they aren't good at it so they don't, so they don't get good at it.

I do agree that Glitchmom is starting to grate though.

[Ocerkin]

4 minutes ago, Shoelip said:

It feels like you haven't been paying very much attention during the quests.  Teshin didn't betray you in The War Within.  He was mind controlled to work against you but managed to work around it to give you the power to defeat him and the queens.  The Lotus isn't "evil" either.  Unless you consider the Orokin good.  Or your definition of "good" is just "whatever I personally want."

I personally didn't have much trouble with the Umbra fight.  I just tried to avoid him and he didn't kill me once.  It's a bit odd to me that so many people had so much trouble, especially you as you with all the passives.  I guess they don't like playing Operators because they aren't good at it so they don't, so they don't get good at it.

I do agree that Glitchmom is starting to grate though.

as far as this game is concerned id count evil as trying to murder us, those sentients she was hanging with opened fire on us pretty blatently

[Shoelip]

I mean, they always do that.  Kinda comes with being at war.  How many Sentients have you killed?  I've been killed tons of times in this game, even as an operator, and it's yet to stick.

[AllSnuffedOut]

I felt the quest was short and didn't resolve the story, DE had said this was a trilogy and the story stopped at a cliffhanger ending

Any way only time will tell, the story itself was ok but whats here currently isn't upto the level of the other 2 main quests going by no new system to utilise and no new areas. Which the War Within and Second Dream both had.

Edited June 16, 2018 by AllSnuffedOut

[MonkeyOfWAR]

With all the hype surrounding it, a glitchy warframe when entering operator mode, and 5 mods that will need around 250k endo to max is not my definition of rewarding. Especially since this is the first big quest in such a long time: the scavenger hunt was boring, the "fight" was boring as hell, Ballas the person who mentally tortured us and forced us to replay our son's death over and only got shanked (and the Ballas "boss fight" was just hey kill these sentients over and over).

I thought this was when we would get a backstory on ordis, or finally explain in detail what the story is between Ballas and Lotus. There's probably a video about it but I don't want to have to go to a video to get a story from a video game...

I have to address this again, how can you still release Umbra with its glitchy mechanics after it being released to the Chinese for years. When entering transference the dude walks around and sometimes has a freakin  seizure when I try to get back into Umbra.

This was their time to shine, to finally make us feel good about trusting them as a company especially after the S#&$show with kora. A warframe+melee 3.0 was delayed for 5 months and was released as a terrible and useless frame only to be mediocre in a week. 

The best part of this below average quest was playing the board game with Ballas because that was the ONLY new thing about this quest. Sure we got mods but those are just stats, nothing ACTUALLY different like focus or rivens+kuva.

Bad job.

[BattleFlash]

On 2018-06-15 at 10:54 AM, TARINunit9 said:

NOTHING about the third Umbra fight is fun. You know what I found out about him? HE IGNORES VOID MODE. He would even instakill me during void dashes with radial javelins. You know, the attack that would be best avoided using void dash to get out of its range. Because giving the player a tool that has been advertised as "you can be invincible as long as you are hiding" and then making the only enemy it would be useful against ignore it entirely is totally a fair handicap after the player has already been handicapped by being forced into Operator mode.

And he can jump onto platforms at almost the same speed as you can. Keep in mind, in the second fight he would have to climb the stairs to change from the first and second floors, during which time he was vulnerable. Plus he had slash dash to close the distance afterward, so the player still had to watch out for retaliation. But in the third fight you don't get this moment if you dash up to the platforms, he just follows you at your same speed. All you've done is waste a precious void dash.

Operator mode is all about managing your two energy bars, but the Umbra fight never rewards using them correctly, punishing you regardless of what you succeed or fail at and just forcing you to respawn to win

i used loki for that and also one specter for deviating him from me then i use he operator to lower the shield and bhoom...u only need one good specter that can hold very long 

 

 

[TARINunit9]

10 hours ago, battleflash said:

i used loki for that

The third battle is the one on the Moon, you don't get Loki

[Maka.Bones]

On 2018-06-14 at 9:51 PM, LuckyCharm said:

The plot "twist" that happened at the end I had seen years ago. I'd always thought she was evil and never did quite trust her. I was glad she'd finally shown her true colors. 

 

SAME!!! I called it when she disappeared. I'M GLAD I WASN'T THE ONLY ONE. And I absolutely agree... the things I hated the most about the quest was the lack of a boss-fight, and that the "puzzles" didn't really have any clues, to lead up to them; there was no real investigating. It was just a game of "hide and seek" with the scannable items.  

 

I liked that the umbra fight wasn't exactly easy, but I wish there were more interactive mechanics... How it is, it feels like it's just a sockem bopem robot fight.... who smashes buttons the fastest/hardest. Who gets RNG on their side..... So I do think it could've been improved upon. 

For more FUN, skill-based gameplay, these guys really need to try out TERA endgame, or more Monster Hunter, Dauntless, Dark Souls, Shadow of the Colossus, or lost planet games.... heck, even BDO would be a better template for better strategic/interactive gameplay, even when considering a mass-hordes gameplay style. 

[SnowWarFr]

On 2018-06-15 at 5:23 AM, Shoelip said:

I personally didn't have much trouble with the Umbra fight.  I just tried to avoid him and he didn't kill me once.  It's a bit odd to me that so many people had so much trouble, especially you as you with all the passives.  I guess they don't like playing Operators because they aren't good at it so they don't, so they don't get good at it.

Part of the reason is because a factor of the players who undergone The Sacrifice hasn't worked a lot on their focus levels and amplifiers, like me.

Could there be a checkpoint prior to the Chains of Harrow and The Sacrifice that gradually ensures that we are up to par for the trials our Operator must go through like junctions for the Warframes? Or something so some of us are not suffering an endless death loop?

[SnowWarFr]

On 2018-06-20 at 7:59 PM, Maka.Bones said:

SAME!!! I called it when she disappeared. I'M GLAD I WASN'T THE ONLY ONE.

I'm stupid. I didn't see that coming.

[Maka.Bones]

1 hour ago, SnowWarFr said:

I'm stupid. I didn't see that coming.

I wouldn't say you're stupid man... maybe too trusting / gullible. The game wanted us to fall for it... I just instinctually question anyone in absolute positions of power, or anyome that automatically seems too nice/perfect. Life can be beautiful, but even that beauty comes with some sort of price. Sometimes the price is inconsequential, and other times its uglier than we first realized. 

Edited June 22, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[GowanIV]

As a relatively new player.. this quest is complete cancer.  I hate operator mode and the fact that I am being forced to go spend months to build let alone level a decent amp for this fight already pisses me off.  The fights, at least the second chase on Neptune, makes me want to uninstall the game.  This is a great game but every once in a while DE comes up with these half assed fights where they think it will be fun if we are insta-gibbed every 3 seconds.. Not sure who the moron is on their staff but they need to can him/her and just start over. with this quest ant these fights.. Really disappointed in DE atm,. Not sure I will ever bother to complete this quest now and afraid I will be stalled for any future content.  Thanks DE.  

[ThePickleWizard]

I agree this mission was extremely tedious and annoying. Making us use our operators against an enemy that does nothing but spam the heck out of exalted blade seemed extremely cheap. All in all this was my least favorite main quest by far and left me feeling very bitter at the game.  

[Biggus_Richus]

I got very frustrated over the course of MANY of the later quests in this game.  The story and voice acting were all top notch but the operator oriented fights, especially at the end of Chains of Harrow and the Umbra fights failed largely due to a lack of in-game explanation of the fact that your operator should be at "this" point before undertaking these quests. As a result I think many people end up graveyard zerging the final fights of these quest which leaves you feeling the complete opposite of how you felt at the beginning of the quest. While I love the fact that this game seems to pride itself on not hand-holding players through quests, the whole Operator situation could really use a QoL pass with regards to players understanding the core mechanics without sifting through google results that span years of patches or a wiki page.

As a new player I still haven't wrapped my head around the whole Lens thing and leveling but maybe I missed a tutorial somewhere.  Regardless, still enjoying the game overall (sans Glast Gambit) but look forward to the few remaining quests less and less now...  

[Nef_Omnifarious]

I didn't even notice this stuff with the quests because I didn't do them until I had a 1/1/1 amp. I just one shot killed everything with the secondary fire of the railgun. Also had 350 health by this point, since I put 1 point into health. I did Harrow, the sacrifice, etc, all on the same night.

Edited August 17, 2018 by Nef_Omnifarious

[(PSN)FUJJ-KUP]

On 2018-07-20 at 11:27 AM, GowanIV said:

As a relatively new player.. this quest is complete cancer.  I hate operator mode and the fact that I am being forced to go spend months to build let alone level a decent amp for this fight already pisses me off.  The fights, at least the second chase on Neptune, makes me want to uninstall the game.  This is a great game but every once in a while DE comes up with these half assed fights where they think it will be fun if we are insta-gibbed every 3 seconds.. Not sure who the moron is on their staff but they need to can him/her and just start over. with this quest ant these fights.. Really disappointed in DE atm,. Not sure I will ever bother to complete this quest now and afraid I will be stalled for any future content.  Thanks DE.  

Umm. I did it with absolutely no amp at all, or focus, or anything, just fine. Really don't see what the big deal is. It was a beautifully written and designed quest. And so, in your words, I say "Thanks DE".

[llamabrown]

10 hours ago, (PS4)FUJJ-KUP said:

Umm. I did it with absolutely no amp at all, or focus, or anything, just fine. Really don't see what the big deal is. It was a beautifully written and designed quest. And so, in your words, I say "Thanks DE".

I would guess that is not the case for the majority of players. Even Life of Rio made a video talking about the difficulty and he is an end game player. It was diffcult for him because he doesn't do PoE.

On a different note. May I suggest making the Gara quest a prerequisite for the Sacrifice quest for new players. And some kind of quest to find the quills after. I didn't know about the amp at all and I finished the Gara quest before doing the Sacrifice quest. I didn't know where the quills were, didn't know about the amp. Needless to say I had to put the game down several times during the sacrifice quest because of being tilted. Remember the vast majority of players do not look up a guide to play a video game. They expect to be taught how to play the video game by playing the video game.

I have been racing to see all the main quests since I have heard so much about them. Because of that, I have spent very little time in operator mode. It is very jarring to then be unable to do a main quest because I didn't spend time doing side quests long enough. It's hard for a new player already to know what side quests are important or optional. I just finished the Sacrifice quest this morning.

TL;DR not everyone has been grinding lots of game content to pass the time prior to main quests coming out. I'm not saying Nerf the difficulty. But at least guide folks picking up the game now to what content they need to play prior to playing the later main quests. Please put it in game.

Edited September 2, 2018 by llamabrown

[-Temp0-]

Цитата

Umbra fights.. oh god the umbra fights. My operator was decked out with all the passives and a good damage skill and he still murdered me in seconds

I can personally honestly forgive almost anythyng for the lore and well written quests/dialogues, especially related to a main story and especially warframes themselves.

Цитата

I would guess that is not the case for the majority of players. Even Life of Rio made a video talking about the difficulty and he is an end game player. It was diffcult for him because he doesn't do PoE.

That's really his problems. Ignore a major piece of a game developers keep pushing and it will bite you in the *** one day.

Also being "end game" doesn't immediately equal being good at the game as a whole as well. For all the talking about bite sized players I find it pathetic if he had real ussies with the quest to the point to find it "difficult". Its liek complaining "oh you know I never bothered to instal a catalyst on my weapon, I never bothered to evem level it up, I never bothered to properly mod it so I got my *** handled to me". Well what a surprise. Decided to no life in the survivals all day every day, ignored the rest of the game that happened in more than 2 years while he was doing so. "And so, we come to the consequences"

Edited September 2, 2018 by -Temp0-

[llamabrown]

I'm not getting into a get good argument. It is really just posturing and can get toxic. The fact is he is not the only one who posted videos not realizing they needed a better amp and or more experience. As I said, I didn't say anything about the difficulty, I said more information prior to starting is needed. 

And since only 20% of players in a game read guides/YouTube/Reddit/forums for any video game on the market, an information gap is a major problem. And when only abut 40% of all players finish a game they purchased, It is in the game company's best interest to get more people to play not less. I feel pretty good guessing DE does not want the reputation they have for their new player experience. 

 

[-Temp0-]

Цитата

The fact is he is not the only one who posted videos not realizing they needed a better amp and or more experience.

He just literally ignored the content and came to the consequences because survivals is all he ran. The end. His own fault.

Цитата

And since only 20% of players in a game read guides/YouTube/Reddit/forums for any video game on the market, an information gap is a major problem. And when only abut 40% of all players finish a game they purchased, It is in the game company's best interest to get more people to play not less. I feel pretty good guessing DE does not want the reputation they have for their new player experience. 

You can't finish a game that's still in beta and is an mmo.

And warframe is easy as ****. It became progressively easier and open to the new plaeyrs like no other game. It was much and much worse even 3 years ago, forget 5.  If anything, they concentrate 90% of resources on new players and cater to them, not the other way around.