[Sacrifice Spoilers] Disappointed by Umbra's Abilities.

[shut]

== THE PROBLEM ==

Umbra's 1, 3, and 4 are virtually identical to Excal's... but his 2 isn't. "Radial Howl" (Umbra's new 2) is identical to Radial Blind in functionality, except it also wipes Sentient resistances... and takes almost exactly 2x as long to cast. Radial Blind takes about 0.9 seconds from start to finish, and Radial Howl takes a whopping 1.8 seconds.
For comparison, Rhino Stomp takes 1.5 seconds.

The ability is VERY sluggish, and feels horrible to use. And since its one upside is Sentient-exclusive, this means that when you're not fighting Sentients (i.e. 99.9% of this game), Umbra's moveset is a straight downgrade to stock Excal's.

 

== THE SOLUTION ==

Double the casting speed of Radial Howl. That's it.
This isn't to make it overpowered-- this is to give it 100% identical behaviour to the Radial Blind that we already know and love.

 

 

EDIT: Radial Howl does NOT proc invisibility on finishers.
That comes from the Skiajati, not Howl. 

Edited June 15, 2018 by SortaRandom

[German]

If you do a finisher on an enemy that was stunned by radial howl excal umbra turns invisible for 5 seconds.

[Airwolfen]

As german said. it has a built in stealth component that lasts till the duration runs out or you attack.

[Nez-Kal]

Spoiler

Remember that we have "Those shouldn't be here!" Sentient Mimics now, and Space Mom 2.0.

I believe DE is planning on making that 00.1% Sentient content jump upwards soon.

 

[shut]

22 minutes ago, German said:

If you do a finisher on an enemy that was stunned by radial howl excal umbra turns invisible for 5 seconds.

18 minutes ago, Airwolfen said:

As german said. it has a built in stealth component that lasts till the duration runs out or you attack.

This does not happen. During the quest, the invisibility occurs somewhat unreliably; and once you're done the quest, it doesn't proc at all. (Tested in simulacrum and in actual missions.)

In addition, even assuming that this is a bug that gets fixed... five seconds of invisibility is a very, very short amount. Especially considering that you need to spend a long time casting Howl and another long time Finishing a single enemy before the invis even begins.
By the time you're finished killing all the enemies that just got Blinded anyway, the invisibility is long over-- unless you're Finishing them one by one for some reason, in which case Blind could have done that exact same job anyways (and with double the casting speed).

Edited June 15, 2018 by SortaRandom

[AdunSaveMe]

Is Radial Howl one-handed? I'm not sure if it is but it doesn't feel like it.

[Xaero]

But it blinds through walls, right?

[shut]

1 hour ago, AdunSaveMe said:

Is Radial Howl one-handed? I'm not sure if it is but it doesn't feel like it.

It behaves the same as Blind has behaved for a really long time. You can't shoot or begin a reload while casting Blind, but if you're reloading something as you cast it, then it'll continue reloading.

It's not truly "one-handed" like Shock/Fireball/etc are (where you can shoot and begin reloads while casting), but it's somewhere in between.

 

1 hour ago, Ksaero said:

But it blinds through walls, right?

It does not.

[Femuru]

i realllllyyy hope they DONT  make more umbras after today i find umbra visually appealing and extremely interesting BUT lets face it DE have a hard time balancing the base frames for god sake and now they will have to balance umbra abilities as well on top of these new op umbral mods in which umbra frames can only have umbral polarities so other warframes will be limited on usage on them since even if u forma every other slot they wont all fit. wit just excal umbra release alone i can already feel the weeks of testing to find how clunky or irritating itll be it min max everything to find umbra will probly just be primes upgraded version despite having same base stat (thx umbral mods) please for the love of god DE dont continue umbra series if u want yur game balanced.

[Xaero]

3 minutes ago, ShenRyujin said:

i realllllyyy hope they DONT  make more umbras after today i find umbra visually appealing and extremely interesting BUT lets face it DE have a hard time balancing the base frames for god sake and now they will have to balance umbra abilities as well on top of these new op umbral mods in which umbra frames can only have umbral polarities so other warframes will be limited on usage on them since even if u forma every other slot they wont all fit. wit just excal umbra release alone i can already feel the weeks of testing to find how clunky or irritating itll be it min max everything to find umbra will probly just be primes upgraded version despite having same base stat (thx umbral mods) please for the love of god DE dont continue umbra series if u want yur game balanced.

But what if this is how we are prepared to face the Tau system threat.

[ThePredicament]

It also isn't one handed like RB is, which is a HUGE disgusting trade off. Kinda weird that both of the dude's hands are free but can't reload, while regular Excal can reload with ONE HAND.

[Aekhon]

2 hours ago, SortaRandom said:

This does not happen. During the quest, the invisibility occurs somewhat unreliably; and once you're done the quest, it doesn't proc at all. (Tested in simulacrum and in actual missions.)

In addition, even assuming that this is a bug that gets fixed... five seconds of invisibility is a very, very short amount. Especially considering that you need to spend a long time casting Howl and another long time Finishing a single enemy before the invis even begins.
By the time you're finished killing all the enemies that just got Blinded anyway, the invisibility is long over-- unless you're Finishing them one by one for some reason, in which case Blind could have done that exact same job anyways (and with double the casting speed).

It procs literally every time for me.  You must be bugged.  And, speaking as an Ash player, five secs of invis can be more useful than you think.

[-AncientWarrior-]

I must admit .. the Umbra and the Sword are both very disappointing in their performance .. I've already forma'd and reranked them both .. but the sword is the most disappointing in its performance.  I really thought as a large Katana it would have more.. well just more of everything, range, hitting power.. its just a good looking mastery fodder item..  hopefully a BIG buff comes its way.. in comparison.. my first 1 forma Zaw which i used only for mastery, performs better .. shame as I was really hoping it would be a great Sword.  but it looks good :) 

 

[ThePredicament]

The invisibility is tied to the Nikana, not RB.

[shut]

11 minutes ago, Aekhon said:

It procs literally every time for me.  You must be bugged.

2 hours ago, German said:

If you do a finisher on an enemy that was stunned by radial howl excal umbra turns invisible for 5 seconds.

2 hours ago, Airwolfen said:

As german said. it has a built in stealth component that lasts till the duration runs out or you attack.

I figured it out.

The invisibility isn't from Excal Umbra. It's a passive of the Skiajati itself, meaning that you can use it on other frames like Inaros if you so desire.
It also lasts for 5 seconds at maximum-- it'll break if you cast an ability or begin an attack (with the exception of another finisher) while it's active.

 

EDIT:

12 minutes ago, TheLocalHentai said:

It also isn't one handed like RB is, which is a HUGE disgusting trade off. Kinda weird that both of the dude's hands are free but can't reload, while regular Excal can reload with ONE HAND.

It has the exact same mechanics as Radial Blind when it comes to reloading and such. You can't attack or begin a reload when casting Blind or Howl, but if you began a reload before casting, then both Blind and Howl will allow it to continue.

Edited June 15, 2018 by SortaRandom

[Femuru]

14 minutes ago, Ksaero said:

But what if this is how we are prepared to face the Tau system threat.

thatll break warframe balance system even more if this tau system makes that big a impact in gameplay. . .well time to throw away every prime access away now i guess

[gaurdianaq]

I'd say being able to go in operator mode and have your frame have infinite ammo and like pin point accuracy is a decent trade off XD

[Xaero]

2 minutes ago, ShenRyujin said:

thatll break warframe balance system even more if this tau system makes that big a impact in gameplay. . .well time to throw away every prime access away now i guess

Tau System is not a gameplay system but a new starmap. We play in Origin System from the beginning of the game. Some day we'll be able to travel to Tau System through the Void, where Sentient forces are swarming.

[shut]

5 minutes ago, gaurdianaq said:

I'd say being able to go in operator mode and have your frame have infinite ammo and like pin point accuracy is a decent trade off XD

Umbra also takes full damage while you're in operator mode. For comparison, other frames either have 90% damage resist (if an ability is active) or are totally invulnerable (if no ability is active) while you're in operator mode.

Pressing 5 as Umbra is basically suicide at higher levels, since he just stands near one spot and draws aggro... without having any defensive benefits whatsoever.

Edited June 15, 2018 by SortaRandom

[ThePredicament]

16 minutes ago, SortaRandom said:

It has the exact same mechanics as Radial Blind when it comes to reloading and such. You can't attack or begin a reload when casting Blind or Howl, but if you began a reload before casting, then both Blind and Howl will allow it to continue. 

I'm an Excal main and sprinkling RB into reloads is second nature, it does not interrupt reloads.

Edited June 15, 2018 by TheLocalHentai

[shut]

Just now, TheLocalHentai said:

I'm an Excal main and sprinkling RB into reloads is second nature, it does not interrupt reloads. It doesn't even interrupt sequential reloads.

I'm an Excal main too, and I literally just said that RB does not interrupt reloads. Sprinkling RB into reloads is second nature for me too.

However, despite not interrupting reloads, both RB and RH will prevent you from beginning a new reload while they're casting. It's just a lot more noticeable on RH because the animation is so damn long.

[Femuru]

5 minutes ago, Ksaero said:

Tau System is not a gameplay system but a new starmap. We play in Origin System from the beginning of the game. Some day we'll be able to travel to Tau System through the Void, where Sentient forces are swarming.

i kno its another starmap but wen i see "tau resist" it could end up being a op dmg reduction im not saying it will or is but it could possibly end that way just the bonus stats that umbras can abuse from umbra mods already makes it better than the prime despite same base stat now if this tau resist also ended op oh man im gonna just see more of a headache wit wat DE bring in store this time there are probly a fair amount of balance issues i see from umbra sets coming in all cuz ppl want edgy looking frames 

[DarkSkysz]

15 minutes ago, SortaRandom said:

Umbra also takes full damage while you're in operator mode. For comparison, other frames either have 90% damage resist (if an ability is active) or are totally invulnerable (if no ability is active) while you're in operator mode.

Pressing 5 as Umbra is basically suicide at higher levels, since he just stands near one spot and draws aggro... without having any defensive benefits whatsoever.

Even with arcanes to regen his health he can't survive for too long. Even in hydron he can be killed easily.

 

Also about the Tau system. Umbras will have more tricks against sentients inside their our system. While primes will still be strong in our current system.

Edited June 15, 2018 by DarkSkysz

[Airwolfen]

4 hours ago, SortaRandom said:

I figured it out.

The invisibility isn't from Excal Umbra. It's a passive of the Skiajati itself, meaning that you can use it on other frames like Inaros if you so desire.
It also lasts for 5 seconds at maximum-- it'll break if you cast an ability or begin an attack (with the exception of another finisher) while it's active.

 

EDIT:

It has the exact same mechanics as Radial Blind when it comes to reloading and such. You can't attack or begin a reload when casting Blind or Howl, but if you began a reload before casting, then both Blind and Howl will allow it to continue.

Ahhhh. That explains it.

[Shadedraxe]

God, I’m so bummed about the Umbra mods more than anything. I didn’t want umbra’s To be superior to Primes. I wanted them to be an alternative. Why even make Primes anymore? Just make umbra’s from now on unless other frames get Umbra polarities or those Umbra mods get primed mod equivalents. I feel like all of the forma I ever used on my Primes was a waste if we get superior Umbra versions just because they have access to better mods.