Update 23: Mods, Forma, and Destruction of Builds

[OvisCaedo]

4 minutes ago, Dragoneye95 said:

I dont get why people complaining about this. Exalted weapons just got a real great buff and youre S#&$storming DE for farming 3-4 Forma more on a Warframe. Exalted weapons have now so much more versatility. You know elemental mods for an example? And for beginners it is great too. They dont bother too much about Formaing and the mods which make these weapons strong are easy to get. The Orokin vault mods arent needed anymore to make this weapons so powerful. My brother is kinda a beginner and he is more than happy to one hit some enemies with Valkyrs Talons now. And for endgame you need some Forma more ye. But you are alot stronger. The only people who should be sad of this is Mesa cause his Peacemaker was already based on his secondary weapon.

What? Every one of these abilities already inherited mods from an equipped weapon. Melee ones even had more effective capacity to work with for it. There were some problems with weapon type/mod set up restrictions (IE no shotguns for ivara if you wanted her bow to work), but this isn't a change of increased power. It's some increased flexibility at the cost of more grind and, in the case of the three melee weapons, a flat-out loss of capacity (though I guess that just means they need even MORE grind to try to make up for it)

Personally, my biggest issue is just that DE deliberately gave some of these weapons bad polarities to start with. And there really is no way to interpret it besides being deliberately bad; DE knows FULLY well that something like Peacemaker takes almost if not entirely V polarity mods, but they gave it two dash polarities which are not only outside of the core, but in some cases actively detrimental

Edited June 16, 2018 by OvisCaedo

[Anthraxicus]

Just now, Dragoneye95 said:

I dont get why people complaining about this. Exalted weapons just got a real great buff and youre S#&$storming DE for farming 3-4 Forma more on a Warframe. Exalted weapons have now so much more versatility. You know elemental mods for an example? And for beginners it is great too. They dont bother too much about Formaing and the mods which make these weapons strong are easy to get. The Orokin vault mods arent needed anymore to make this weapons so powerful. My brother is kinda a beginner and he is more than happy to one hit some enemies with Valkyrs Talons now. And for endgame you need some Forma more ye. But you are alot stronger. The only people who should be sad of this is Mesa cause his Peacemaker was already based on his secondary weapon.

Oh, right. It is great for beginners. Now they have to spend the forma they don't have to use abilities they were already using before. 
Imagine a beginner with Mesa and spending forma on regulator pistols to equip Primed Pistol Gambit, Primed Target Cracker, Barrel Diffusion, Lethal Torrent and Hornet Strike, only to mention the mandatory and very "cheap" mods. These alone require 62 capacity. 

[dopey_opi]

6 minutes ago, Anthraxicus said:

From the moment I saw that Venari had its own polarities, I knew it was a bad sign of things to come.

When they first showed glimpses of moddable exalted weapons, some people were "happy" because they thought it meant more mastery rank. Not only I didn't see the connection, because it is an ability of the warframe, I also couldn't see any benefit. In my opinion back then, for this change to not come as a cheap move to force people into spending more forma, the exalted weapons should either get polarities when your forma the warframe or they should come with at leave 4 or 5 Madurai polarities. And it happened exactly as I had predicted. No extra Mastery Rank, one Madurai and two Naramon polarities, which practically no one gives a damn about. Titania users were screwed over twice as much.

Now, if certain warframe that happen to have exalted weapons instead of actual abilities need to forma these specific abilties, what is stopping DE to do the same to the other abilties? Why not go crazy already and let people mod other abilities as they please? 

I know I will stay away from all the Warframe with exalted weapons from now on.

I'm actually a fan of the exalted weapon change.  I'm no longer forced to build two weapons off one set of mods, trading off mods that would be great on my melee but not-so-great on Valkyr's Hysteria as an example.  Sure, there are more forma required, but forma are hardly difficult to come by.  Sure, there is more time and grind to invest, but this is a game about time and grind so that's to be expected.

I haven't gotten to play around with Dex Pixia since it was changed, but I'm excited for that since I'd always wished they scaled off pistol mods rather than rifle mods.  I just hope they fix the rest of Titania, who remains a bit of a hot mess, but that's beyond the scope of this discussion.

And I definitely hope that someday, we get riven mods for Exalted weapons.

[UrsWanderer]

Well that is strange. I was able to mod my melee weapon when playing Valkyr how I wanted. Didnt change anything. Forma is so easy to get, flexibility atleast is also a great thing to have. As I said. Beginners dont bother about Formaing. And as a veteran you know how easy Forma is to get so. I dont think they made it because of the money. Also my brother wasnt able to one hit enemies with the same mods in his melee weapons which he has now in his Exalted weapon.

[UrsWanderer]

il y a 2 minutes, Anthraxicus a dit :

Oh, right. It is great for beginners. Now they have to spend the forma they don't have to use abilities they were already using before. 
Imagine a beginner with Mesa and spending forma on regulator pistols to equip Primed Pistol Gambit, Primed Target Cracker, Barrel Diffusion, Lethal Torrent and Hornet Strike, only to mention the mandatory and very "cheap" mods. These alone require 62 capacity. 

A beginner has no Primed mods. Beginners usually are fine with 60 slot points (and also most have atleast some polarities). Forma is easy to get when you advance.

[Anthraxicus]

2 minutes ago, Dragoneye95 said:

Well that is strange. I was able to mod my melee weapon when playing Valkyr how I wanted. Didnt change anything. Forma is so easy to get, flexibility atleast is also a great thing to have. As I said. Beginners dont bother about Formaing. And as a veteran you know how easy Forma is to get so. I dont think they made it because of the money. Also my brother wasnt able to one hit enemies with the same mods in his melee weapons which he has now in his Exalted weapon.

Tell us, how easy it is to get forma, except for buying them using plat?

 

Quote

A beginner has no Primed mods. Beginners usually are fine with 60 slot points (and also most have atleast some polarities). Forma is easy to get when you advance.

Wrong

Edited June 16, 2018 by Anthraxicus

[UrsWanderer]

il y a 10 minutes, Anthraxicus a dit :

Tell us, how easy it is to get forma, except for buying them using plat?

Void fissures. Every second rotation there will be a Forma blueprint. I remember times where you farmed whole day for 3 of them. Became boring acquiring them.

 

And its right. When you are on the point where you actively make Void fissures you also get alot of Forma BPs (you need Prime parts of this fissures to get ducats). You dont need Primed mods for making the star chart, junctions and quests. Only for he tougher stuff like Sorties and Elite Sanctuary Onslaught which are considered Endgame right now.

I think this makes the design of the progression extremely clever and also the update with the Exalted weapons a clever step to actually buff them (and if its only for the flexibility when talking about Mesa for an example).

Edited June 16, 2018 by Dragoneye95

[Anthraxicus]

16 minutes ago, Dragoneye95 said:

Void fissures. Every second rotation there will be a Forma blueprint. I remember times where you farmed whole day for 3 of them. Became boring acquiring them.

 

And its right. When you are on the point where you actively make Void fissures you also get alot of Forma BPs. You dont need Primed mods for making the star chart, junctions and quests. Only for he tougher stuff like Sorties and Elite Sanctuary Onslaught which are considered Endgame right now.

That is the problem right there. First, the player has to acquire relics, then farm blueprints (which may not even come as usually happens to me) and then he has to build them, which takes 24 hours to build only one, and can't be placed in queue.

 

Quote

And its right. When you are on the point where you actively make Void fissures you also get alot of Forma BPs (you need Prime parts of this fissures to get ducats). You dont need Primed mods for making the star chart, junctions and quests. Only for he tougher stuff like Sorties and Elite Sanctuary Onslaught which are considered Endgame right now.

You other words, you either farm forma to use the ability you could use before or farm ducats. Great. 
Don't try to presume what beginners have or have not.

Edited June 16, 2018 by Anthraxicus

[dopey_opi]

4 minutes ago, Anthraxicus said:

That is the problem right there. First, the player has to acquire relics, then farm blueprints (which may not even come as usually happens to me) and then he has to build them, which takes 24 hours to build only one, and can't be placed in queue.

Yeah, I remember how frustrating that was.  Then somewhere around MR5 I discovered that some of the items I had laying around un-used still had some value in trade chat.  Spy mods, lucky grabs from relics, etc.  Since then, I've been getting my forma the 'Forma Bundle' way, with craftable Forma being a side-bonus.  Acting as though it's impossible for newer players to get involved in the trade system is foolish.  You're deliberately ignoring a proven solution so you can hype up the problem.  And I can speak for many people in saying that we're not buying it.

[UrsWanderer]

il y a 13 minutes, Anthraxicus a dit :

That is the problem right there. First, the player has to acquire relics, then farm blueprints (which may not even come as usually happens to me) and then he has to build them, which takes 24 hours to build only one, and can't be placed in queue.

Queue is solved when you just use the App. They wanna support it somehow, so I understand that. You most likely get the relics when just playing the game. The missions where you can find them is the most played in endgame anyway (except PoE). Well seems you are very unlucky with Forma. But it is most of the time a common drop, with four players you should technically every rotation get one when unrefined. And ye, if nothing helps. Take prime junk, sell it and use that Platinum for triple Forma pack. People complaining about the need of new content, they have done everything. So they try to make the process harder so you cant complain anymore and now you complain it became harder. For more flexibility in this case, it is not for nothing.

 

Back when Valkyr came out I was a fan to play her. Till I realized how unfunny it is to activate the 4 just heal me up and then going back to normal weapon. This update makes me thinking of playing her again.

 

Edited June 16, 2018 by Dragoneye95

[PapaKrampus]

1 minute ago, Dragoneye95 said:

Queue is solved when you just use the App.

Who said the queue was the problem? The 24 hour build time is the problem, for example if you want to get Dex Pixia to anything worthwhile you'll need to sink in around 7 forma not only is that take a damn week but you are forced to relevel them every time.

[Anthraxicus]

7 minutes ago, dopey_opi said:

Yeah, I remember how frustrating that was.  Then somewhere around MR5 I discovered that some of the items I had laying around un-used still had some value in trade chat.  Spy mods, lucky grabs from relics, etc.  Since then, I've been getting my forma the 'Forma Bundle' way, with craftable Forma being a side-bonus.  Acting as though it's impossible for newer players to get involved in the trade system is foolish.  You're deliberately ignoring a proven solution so you can hype up the problem.  And I can speak for many people in saying that we're not buying it.

If you wanna spend more forma and level up AN ABILITY so bad, I can understand. Some people do like to waste time and resources on things they didn't have to do before. I just don't understand why the rest of us have to get screwed up along with you. 

 

 

Quote

Queue is solved when you just use the App. 

That is the dumbest solution ever. It only solves the problem of not having to log in through your computer. It doesn't solve the actual problems.

Jesus. People are ok with having to spend platinum because some warframes are lazy enough to not have an actual ability. 

Edited June 16, 2018 by Anthraxicus

[UrsWanderer]

il y a 3 minutes, MRmailman69 a dit :

Who said the queue was the problem? The 24 hour build time is the problem, for example if you want to get Dex Pixia to anything worthwhile you'll need to sink in around 7 forma not only is that take a damn week but you are forced to relevel them every time.

A week is freaking nothing when you level up your favorite character in a videogame. Look at other games, we shouldnt be able to maximize our Gear in about few days. Thats boring as #*!%. And if you like it anyway buy Forma bundles. In other games you play for weeks to maximize a character. No, thinking about usual MMOs months. So the 10 days for 10 Forma to max a Titania for an example is laughable.

Edited June 16, 2018 by Dragoneye95

[dopey_opi]

Just now, Anthraxicus said:

If you wanna spend more forma and level up AN ABILITY so bad, I can understand. Some people do like to waste time and resources on things they didn't have to do before. I just don't understand why the rest of us have to get screwed up along with you. 

I'm 'screwed up' for using the trade system, a major portion of the game, that becomes accessible at MR2?  Riiiiiight.

[Anthraxicus]

1 minute ago, Dragoneye95 said:

A week is freaking nothing when you level up your favorite character in a videogame. Look at other games, we shouldnt be able to maximize our Gear in about few days. Thats boring as #*!%.

There is a difference between leveling up a character and having to level up ONE of his abilties for no good reason.

 

Quote

I'm 'screwed up' for using the trade system, a major portion of the game, that becomes accessible at MR2?  Riiiiiight.

Like I said, if you want it that bad, so be it. I just don't understand why the rest of US have to be dragged down along with you. 

Edited June 16, 2018 by Anthraxicus

[PapaKrampus]

2 minutes ago, Dragoneye95 said:

A week is freaking nothing when you level up your favorite character in a videogame. Look at other games, we shouldnt be able to maximize our Gear in about few days. Thats boring as #*!%.

It's a week of either waiting or Hydron, are you taking the piss or just that damn sheltered?

Edited June 16, 2018 by MRmailman69

[UrsWanderer]

il y a 1 minute, Anthraxicus a dit :

There is a difference between leveling up a character and having to level up ONE of his abilties for no good reason.

Theres a reason. To get power. This change was needed to be introduced right when game released. It is annoying a little but dont forget, its still a beta. And it is also still a F2P game.

[UrsWanderer]

il y a 3 minutes, MRmailman69 a dit :

It's a week of either waiting or Hydron, are you taking the piss or just that damn sheltered?

Its not like your Warframe is useless while you are waiting for more Formas. Go out after you maxed again on Hydron and make something funny. You dont need min maxing for the content in this game, it just makes everything smoother.

[PapaKrampus]

1 minute ago, Dragoneye95 said:

Theres a reason. To get power. This change was needed to be introduced right when game released. It is annoying a little but dont forget, its still a beta. And it is also still a F2P game.

Ah yes ReFormaing all your gear is apperently "annoying a little".

2 minutes ago, Dragoneye95 said:

Its not like your Warframe is useless while you are waiting for more Formas. Go out after you maxed again on Hydron and make something funny. You dont need min maxing for the content in this game, it just makes everything smoother.

I shouldn't be releveling what i've already leveled countless times in the first place.

 

Jesus dude, But i wouldn't expect someone who barely level half the warframes in the game to understand.

 

[UrsWanderer]

il y a 1 minute, MRmailman69 a dit :

Ah yes ReFormaing all your gear is apperently "annoying a little".

I shouldn't be releveling what i've already leveled countless times in the first place.

 

Jesus dude, But i wouldn't expect someone who barely level half the warframes in the game to understand.

 

It sounds like you want to min max every Warframe in the game. Well, reforma all the gear? Lol its just the exalted weapons. An usual player has three Warframes which they really play as mains. How big is the chance that someone needs to forma more than 2 exalted weapons? My MR has nothing to say. My gaming experiences overall has. And theres no other game I know where people expect they can min maxing every character in the time you want to have. It would mean insanely high time amount in WoW for an example. There are people happy when they finally beat to min max one character before the new big patch drops and destroys everything. Min maxing three Warframes is done pretty fast, even with Exalted Weapons. So I see no reason complaining.

[Anthraxicus]

This could have been handled in a such a way as to please everyone. Either add the damn polarities that people actually use or add an option to continue modding the old way. This way, masochists who like spending forma and leveling up the same stuff 20x times for no reason would have their way and the people who were already using these abilities to their full potential will continue to do so.

People have to use forma to build weapons, build frames, polarize weapons and warframes, build exilus adapters and a whole bunch of more stuff, all of that while being able to build only ONE per a whole day, and some are still happy for having to spend more for NO REASON.

Edited June 16, 2018 by Anthraxicus

[PapaKrampus]

1 minute ago, Dragoneye95 said:

It sounds like you want to min max every Warframe in the game. Well, reforma all the gear? Lol its just the exalted weapons. An usual player has three Warframes which they really play as mains. How big is the chance that someone needs to forma more than 2 exalted weapons? My MR has nothing to say. My gaming experiences overall has. And theres no other game I know where people expect they can min maxing every character in the time you want to have. It would mean insanely high time amount in WoW for an example. There are people happy when they finally beat to min max one character before the new big patch drops and destroys everything. Min maxing three Warframes is done pretty fast, even with Exalted Weapons. So I see no reason complaining.

I'm not talking about just exaulted weapons here i'm talking also about the mods they released that would require you to forma every slot around them and still not have enough points to fit in a half decent build, and im not talking about minmaxing here you need at least 2-3 forma just to get back to the standard build on those weapons.

[UrsWanderer]

il y a 1 minute, Anthraxicus a dit :

This could have been handled in a such a way as to please everyone. Either add the damn polarities that people actually use or add an option to continue modding the old way. This way, masochists who like spending forma and leveling up the same stuff 20x times for no reason would have their way and the people who were already using these abilities to their full potential will continue to do so.

Well. You can also level stuff passively. Just take your full modded Tigris Prime and dont give a #*!% for your Exalted Weapon till its maxed out. Warframe could easily be a triple A game, costing 60 Euros. You cant find a perfect game but come one. Theres nobody more fair than DE (with the exception of maybe GGG of Path of Exiles).

[Zin-Azshari]

13 hours ago, (XB1)Orcus Imperium said:

you wanna know what really grinds my gears?

 

My inaros? yeah, ya know....the unkillable sand king himself? the one, when paired with any kavat with hunter mods and the like literally can't die?

 

mine has 2 forma and is basically immortal as long as my smeeta, Karma is tailing him and he's immortal without him as well.....i'll need 9 FORMA to be able to fit on the 3 umbral mods.

 

9. FORMA.

Inaros will become my most expensive frame in my arsenal and that's absurd(but it'll be worth it for over 8k health? i guess?)

Can you even place all 3 mods on without having empty slots? If yes, can I know the build? Mine can only fit in 2 of the Umbra mods

[UrsWanderer]

il y a 2 minutes, MRmailman69 a dit :

I'm not talking about just exaulted weapons here i'm talking also about the mods they released that would require you to forma every slot around them and still not have enough points to fit in a half decent build, and im not talking about minmaxing here you need at least 2-3 forma just to get back to the standard build on those weapons.

Ah well then I misunderstood. Well I think just not using these Mods is a good solution for this anyway. They are not alot stronger than the usual ones (or even the Primed) yet. I think they should add a special way to craft the special polarities. Not with the usual Forma.