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COMMUNITY REQUEST: I'm looking to gather a mass of current opinions on the Founder's Program for a pending post write-up.


DomoSapien
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Theres always things to change and to make better, these are my opinions

Dojo - Clan - Alliances

Spoiler

Dojos are the heart of a clan, but they most of time feel just empty and nowadays, since the end of the DS Rail Wars, theres not really reason to support/donate things for the alliance. Steve already commented before about the idea of adding walking NPCs, which would be great, but maybe could be other ways?  Or why not make the Orokin Dojo Skin available to get, like the prime and orokin acessories in Prime Access
New Dojo Decorations and Rooms always help, and i still believe we need a Zoo/Pet Care Room, to see the doggos and catts of all members. 

The idea of creating an Alliance Hub, so clan members could walk in and out from one dojo into another clan to visit inside his alliance would be good, i've seen a lot of weird worries when this ideia comes around, like "but they should not be able to buy or even see the researchs of that clan, it would provoke problems it they could see it" which i even tried to ask those users what kind of problems, but they never came up with any reason. But having the option for Warlord to enable or disable their dojo to be reached by said HUB would be a good way of having control of privacy.


PvE & PVP

Spoiler

So far the only true, or lasting, competing aspects of Warframe is during Events and Breaking Mission Records.
In most of games, if not the majority of them, PVP is what usually is the endgame.. Its not news to anyone that despite the many attempts to make conclave and lunaro better, no one actually finds it motivating enough to play them. Even today a lot of old players miss the Dark Sector Rail Wars, despite really broken due several overpowered abilites that broken feeling was what actually made the whole mode fun to play, not restricted and nerfed like the conclave trying to keep things balanced.

Even if not wanting to focus on pvp, it would be great if we could Expand the battle arenas in our dojos, making it possible for 4 players, or team  compositions. Which makes me keep wondering, how interesting would it be to have a similar arena in Cetus or in some other free open space like the relays, after all Syndicates have open rivalry between them.

 

 

Edited by -.SP.-G43riel
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5 minutes ago, -.SP.-G43riel said:

Theres always things to change and to make better, these are my opinions

Dojo - Clan - Alliances

  Reveal hidden contents

Dojos are the heart of a clan, but they most of time feel just empty and nowadays, since the end of the DS Rail Wars, theres not really reason to support/donate things for the alliance. Steve already commented before about the idea of adding walking NPCs, which would be great, but maybe could be other ways?  
New Dojo Decorations and Rooms always help, and i still believe we need a Zoo/Pet Care Room, to see the doggos and catts of all members. 

But the idea of creating an Alliance Hub, so clan members could walk in and out from one dojo into another clan to visit inside his alliance would be good, i've seen a lot of weird worries about this ideia like "but they should not be able to buy or even see the researchs of that clan, it would provoke problems" which i even tried to ask to those user what kind of problems but they never came up with anything. But having the option for Warlord to enable or disable their dojo to be reached by said HUB would be a good way of having Control.


PvE & PVP

  Reveal hidden contents

So far the only true, or lasting, competing aspects of Warframe is during Events and Breaking Mission Records.
In most of games, if not the majority of them, PVP is what usually is the endgame.. Its not news to anyone that despite the many attempts to make conclave and lunaro better, no one actually finds it motivating enough to play them. Even today a lot of old players miss the Dark Sector Rail Wars, despite really broken due several overpowered abilites that broken feeling was what actually made the whole mode fun to play, not restricted and nerfed like the conclave trying to keep things balanced.

Even if not wanting to focus on pvp, it would be great if we could Expand the battle arenas in our dojos, making it possible for 4 players, or team  compositions. Which makes me keep wondering, how interesting would it be to have a similar arena in Cetus or in some other free open space like the relays, after all Syndicates have open rivalry between them.

 

 

Very well thought out opinions, however, this thread's subject is the opinions, from players of all statures, on the Founder's Program including ANY facet or impact you feel it has had or currently has on the game, the community, or any other aspect of the Warframe IP. The more detailed, the better. The floor is open to you and I ask that you provide an opinion on literally ANYTHING related to the Founder's Program that you feel is noteworthy.

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On 2018-06-16 at 1:40 PM, The_Lunatic_ said:

To the letter, sure.

In spirit, it's kinda debatable. Certainly there's plenty of people who feel that they have got "One-over" on what Founders had, and all for free. And there's plenty of Founders who find the situation unfair.

Personally, I think it's kinda skeevy and dishonest. It's not the kind of thing I expected DE to pull when I backed them, and I guess if I'd known they'd do it, I wouldn't have.

What in the queen's dust bin are you on about. I hope you aren't acting jealous about this new umbra nonsense because that is the dumbest thing I've heard today. And that's after work. 

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On 2018-06-16 at 3:08 PM, DomoSapien said:

What my motives are with this post will become clear when it's posted. However, what I will reveal is this: The same way I'm attempting to make as level, equal, and friendly of a playing field as so far depicted in THIS thread, I simply have ideas how to bring that to everyone else.

 

It's not up to you to make Warframe as level, equal, and friendly a playing field as NOT depicted in this thread. That's DE's job. It already is made level with the release of Umbra and Skiajata, this is the upgraded Excalibur that is available to EVERYONE without breaking the terms in the Founder's Program. Whatever your ideas are, it doesn't have to involve the Founder's items/sigils/program. If it does involve them and their return in some way, shape or form, then I am correct in that you are after the Lato Prime which you do NOT possess.  

On 2018-06-16 at 3:08 PM, DomoSapien said:


So with that, I'll tell you this: I have a pretty strong and confident feeling that you (specifically, not the thread collectively) won't be surprised by a portion of what you read. That, I can't help. However, I also feel that you may come away intrigued by the rest because you weren't expecting it.

Thank you for your input.

EDIT: Nutty grammar errors. Shift is almost over. Thank God.

I wouldn't be surprised if you propose a reward system that hands out Founders items to people who contributes ideas. Then, you'd take credit for this reward system idea as your contribution to the community and claim Lato Prime for yourself...? Time will tell. Anyway, you're right. Any further discussion involving the Founder's Program is a waste of time. DE rewards people with platinum and an occasional Primed Chamber all the time. 

The Founder's Program is a done deal and everyone gets to enjoy Warframe because of it. There's nothing more to say about the Founder's Program. Moving forward, there's Prime Access and the platinum shop if people want to contribute to the game. 

 

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7 hours ago, CupcakesMoo said:

What in the queen's dust bin are you on about. I hope you aren't acting jealous about this new umbra nonsense because that is the dumbest thing I've heard today. And that's after work. 

I can't fathom why founders would be so butthurt over Umbra. He's the perfect excuse to get Excal boi Prime buffed.

Let alone the fact that now founders have three Excals they use for different builds, while us plebeians get 2.

Edited by LupisV0lk
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1. They created a black market for peoples old founder accounts, Excalibur prime regularly being cheaper than a prime access is fascinating. Still really sad to see them do it, regret it and continue trying to make exclusivity in a game many would play for completion.

2. Disorganized.

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I believe the founders do deserve recognition for their contributions to the game. And i also understand why people don't want it back. It is an achievement that you earned for supporting the game when it was a bad game on good job for winning the lottery. 

But I my self along with many others also poured money into this game because DE has a great F2P model and possibly the most fairest Micro transactions model in gaming. But we don't get any recognition for doing so. DE still thrives on the money that is spent by NON-founders, but just because founders were first they get the "special treatment"? Past prime accessories were made available multiple times and why should the founders pack be any different?

The founders pack was special and it was a time when DE needed the money the most I understand that, but then where is the special treatment for those who spent money afterwards? where is our never again to be available smaller exclusive(smaller because they didn't take the big risk as founders did)? It could be something simple as a badge but we don't even get that.

DE doesn't want to cheat those who supported the game early so if DE want to re-release it they have to do it in a way that doesn't upset the founders. So serious compensation would be required for such a thing.

But keep in mind Warframe continues to exist because people like spending money and although founders played a significant part in that, they no longer make up the backbone, they are a piece of it now.

Founders Pack in a sentence:

"An investment that paid off with an exclusive trophy to display it"

But I wonder if I'm gonna get a different exclusive trophy to show my support for the game even further on

Edited by Dr_Wonderful
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To me, founders can keep Excalibur pime exclusive, it doesn't need to be compared to excalibur umbra and whined about being inferior. It's a trinket, a medallion, a shiny bauble of recognition and thanks. Any founder who's wining that excal prime is no longer better than the community available excal version is being a very special snowflake. I mean cmon, 25 armour? If you were truly proud of having a very slightly stronger excal then I feel sorry for you and there's clearly something missing in your life.

All I want is the mastery points, nothing more. I want to be on a level pegging in terms of mastery, let them keep their medal that they earned, just give us the extra mastery points so we're not constantly behind.

Edited by Zilchy
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4 hours ago, LupisV0lk said:

I can't fathom why founders would be so butthurt over Umbra. He's the perfect excuse to get Excal boi Prime buffed.

Let alone the fact that now founders have three Excals they use for different builds, while us plebeians get 2.

The excalibur prime is absolutely NOT worth the 300 dollars some people put in for it. Neither are the other excusives that came with it. I think we can all take it for granted that most of these "founders" wanted to try and buy something more with their money: Power. That has to be the case since they are getting so mad about umbra. Their power is under threat. It's stealing their thunder. Now their random excalibur prime focused junk posts mean nothing. 

Now allow me to retort to this fear of lost power the founders have. 

Excalibur prime is no longer special. Fonders have no real power. And now it's time for the people to get something. No matter what you paid. You didn't have to have a computer that can run warframe back in the day when this false power was up for sale. You don't have to have vast disposable income to drop 300 dollars on something to get umbra prime. 

Umbra is the people's warframe. No matter what you happened to pay into warframe. Umbra is for you. Don't fear the fondue's flailing. 

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54 minutes ago, CupcakesMoo said:

The excalibur prime is absolutely NOT worth the 300 dollars some people put in for it. Neither are the other excusives that came with it. I think we can all take it for granted that most of these "founders" wanted to try and buy something more with their money: Power. That has to be the case since they are getting so mad about umbra. Their power is under threat. It's stealing their thunder. Now their random excalibur prime focused junk posts mean nothing. 

Now allow me to retort to this fear of lost power the founders have. 

Excalibur prime is no longer special. Fonders have no real power. And now it's time for the people to get something. No matter what you paid. You didn't have to have a computer that can run warframe back in the day when this false power was up for sale. You don't have to have vast disposable income to drop 300 dollars on something to get umbra prime. 

Umbra is the people's warframe. No matter what you happened to pay into warframe. Umbra is for you. Don't fear the fondue's flailing. 

So let me understand this.

Umbra's release has rendered founders exclusive warframe and weapons moot because everyone now has an umbra including the founders?

I'm sorry but this is too much of a chicken little "the sky is falling" thing.

Edited by LupisV0lk
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5 minutes ago, LupisV0lk said:

So let me understand this.

Umbra's release has rendered founders exclusive warframe and weapons moot because everyone now has an umbra including the founders?

I'm sorry but this is too much of a chicken little "the sky is falling" thing.

I haven't seen chicken little but I think my post is far from describing an end-world scenario (is that projection?)

But yes. The theoretical Excalibur prime has nothing on umbra. Excalibur prime is pointless even to founders since the People's frame has come out. Even these founders get one because perhaps they will find solace in the end of excusives. 

Plus umbra is a real frame. 

Edited by CupcakesMoo
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2 minutes ago, CupcakesMoo said:

I haven't seen chicken little but I think my post is far from describing an end-world scenario (is that projection?)

But yes. The theoretical Excalibur prime has nothing on umbra. Excalibur prime is pointless even to founders since the People's frame has come out. Even these founders get one because perhaps they will find solace in the end of excusives. 

Plus umbra is a real frame. 

Excal Prime is considered by most to just be a symbol. Now with Umbra we the community have a real reason to push for Excal Prime to get buffed.

Umbra has three mod slots taken by his special mods. That in theory would somewhat limit some builds. For founders this would allow them to have a diverse build choice between thier shiny founder Excal prime and Umbra.

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Buffing excalibur prime won't make it any more than just an idea on paper. It does not exist in real time. There will always be more powerful frames than him and any hope that excalibur prime becomes a god frame is just nonsense. It's just never going to be that great. And I think the founders got cheated for their 300 dollars, vs the made once and copied excalibur prime. 

For the money, I'd like to remind everyone, and repeat for emphasis,  that this concept was worked on a single time and then copied.

I'm not directing an attack against DE I'm just saying if this has to be discussed I'd rather use a jackhammer than a butter knife. 

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4 minutes ago, LordChronos said:

To the last few posts above this... you guys are so far off topic it’s ridiculous. You guys didn’t even read what the thread topic is about. This thread isn’t even about Umbra....

There isn't actually anything to discuss here. I'm not sure why anyone would want to do a write up on the founders program besides keeping it tied to a flag pole while DE tries to forget about it. It was a mistake so.. what are you doing? 

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On 2018-06-17 at 2:00 AM, Lockheed said:

DE have stated as much in a few interviews. Rebecca has confirm this on at least one occasion:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwzU4D3Qir0

Additionally, there is a written statement here:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=580920095300846&set=a.400986439960880.92358.348360875223437&type=1&theater

in which they specifically say that the items will not be available again

https://gyazo.com/ad1df7c970052844c4cd08e5c474026f

Screenshot of the text.


Comments on the founders pack by DE:

https://youtu.be/NA5vT1LooXk?t=340

 

While I appreciate the attempt to clarity, nothing you've shown me is new, nor is it a contract.

The first is a fan asking her at tennocon, not an interview, where she says "we have no plans" and specifies "for now," not a contract, and her personal understanding. She specifies "guarded language, because they may bring it back, but my understanding is it's never coming back" in reference to the founders' program. Not a contract. At all.

The second is a "page not found" and the third is a screenshot of a facebook post, which is not a contract. The last video talks about it raising money like a kickstarter and barely touches on exclusivity at all. 

Nothing you have shown me is a contract. It is advertising or personal statements specifically stated as Rebecca's personal understanding of the founder's pack where she even says they may, but as far as she knows, they have no plans to. None of that is a binding contract, and that's what I'm saying.

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Implied contract is still a contract. It's weird, but it's still a thing that can become problematic real fast. 

But I don't have a law certification feel free to chastise me. This is just from personal experience. 

Edited by CupcakesMoo
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37 minutes ago, CupcakesMoo said:

There isn't actually anything to discuss here. I'm not sure why anyone would want to do a write up on the founders program besides keeping it tied to a flag pole while DE tries to forget about it. It was a mistake so.. what are you doing? 

I’m not the OP that made the thread. I also think this entire thread and doing a founders program write up is a huge mistake and a waste of time, and clearly an attempt at creating a bigger rift in the community. I’m not surprised either if this ends up being OP’s attempt at trying making the founders gear available again in some way even knowing what DE’s stance is on the subject. 

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1 hour ago, LordChronos said:

I’m not the OP that made the thread. I also think this entire thread and doing a founders program write up is a huge mistake and a waste of time, and clearly an attempt at creating a bigger rift in the community. I’m not surprised either if this ends up being OP’s attempt at trying making the founders gear available again in some way even knowing what DE’s stance is on the subject. 

From what I understand. The OP is trying to bridge the rift by bringing everyone's opinion on the table and get to the root of this division.

It is not ill willed, it is not to bring back the founder's program (he's already a master), it is an attempt to bring an end to this debacle once and for all.

If I'm wrong though, feel free to correct me Domosapien.

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Should have been cosmetic only (not one word but its short enough)

They should have just given out a founder skin, and not actually pretty significant gear that is subjectively better than the stuff other players can get. I know what Im saying now is stupid, since the differences are so minimal, but the founder package actually is pay to win. you cant argue with that: excalibur prime is better than excalibur, and you cant get him without paying real money. And now you cant get him at all.

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On 2018-06-16 at 9:38 AM, (XB1)N7 Sinner said:

Six words come to mind: I couldn't care less about it.

If I may. What do you hope to achieve with this thread? Thus far, all I have seen is another thread littered with subtle complaints about a "Platinum Apple" that is really just a "Golden Apple" with a platinum colored paint job. I have nothing but the upmost respect for you guys and gals for keeping the game afloat when it was likely to sink. Were it not for the Founder's Program, I wouldn't be enjoying this game today. That being said, DE never promised you that you would have the absolute best version of Excalibur. They only made the promise that Excalibur Prime would be yours forever. If anything, it is the Umbral mods that give Excalibur Umbra the edge over his Prime counterpart.

 

In regards to the topic at hand, I have this to say. I never cared for the items. I never see a Founder flaunting around on Xbox and that is fine with me. Personally, I hate anything with the word "exclusive" attached to it. Wear them with pride if you insist, but just know that some of us just don't care. I only begin care when you turn around and complain because you feel slighted that something better came around that russled your jimmies.

Couldn’t have said it better myself 👍🏼

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1 hour ago, Albalrogue said:

From what I understand. The OP is trying to bridge the rift by bringing everyone's opinion on the table and get to the root of this division.

It is not ill willed, it is not to bring back the founder's program (he's already a master), it is an attempt to bring an end to this debacle once and for all.

If I'm wrong though, feel free to correct me Domosapien.

He’s a master. He doesn’t have Lato prime so he does have something to gain from the program. That is the only motive if it’s involving the return of the founders gears in any way, shape or form. Otherwise, why involve the founders program at all?

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11 hours ago, LordChronos said:

If it does involve them and their return in some way, shape or form, then I am correct in that you are after the Lato Prime which you do NOT possess.  

Yeah, I suppose that if my post does involve bringing back Founder's Items, it could very well be insinuated that my intention is only to get Lato Prime. However, that is a pretty shallow goal and I wouldn't need to be going through all this to make that request, which would likely be denied anyway. I don't like wasting my own time. And for the record, time wasted isn't dictated by results or not. I enjoy my time making ideas and bringing them public. I also enjoy writing/typing (what have you). Regardless of what happens with my main post at the end of the day, my time will have not been wasted.

11 hours ago, LordChronos said:

I wouldn't be surprised if you propose a reward system that hands out Founders items to people who contributes ideas. Then, you'd take credit for this reward system idea as your contribution to the community and claim Lato Prime for yourself...?

Welp, I can tell you outright that I have no intention of suggesting we give Founder's Items to people who give ideas. That's kind of ridiculous. Were that the case, many more Youtuber's, Twitch Streamers, and non-Founder Design Council members would just get it by proxy.

 

Again, I appreciate your input, but the assumptions are beginning to be a little much. You can obviously post however many assumptions or insinuations that you'd like regardless of whether I'm happy about it or not, but I'd ask that you do it constructively. If your constructive input on it is that Founder's should never be released again, that's great. Let's leave it at that because that's a very strong stance.

I will admit that I've been asleep for the majority of yesterday after I got home from work so I'm only just now catching up on all these posts now that I'm back in the office so I'm not sure if your future posts have done as such. If so, I apologize for the out-of-order response. I still like to address issues in the 'now' and in order.

Edited by DomoSapien
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5 hours ago, CupcakesMoo said:

I think we can all take it for granted that most of these "founders" wanted to try and buy something more with their money: Power

Again, When the founders package was a thing, excalibur prime had the exact same stats as original Excalibur. There was no difference. The change to excal prime happened well after the founders program was shut-down, so your misguided point is entirely irrelevant.

 

3 hours ago, ZackOak said:

The second is a "page not found"

Weird, I can access it when I click on it.

 

3 hours ago, ZackOak said:

Nothing you have shown me is a contract

While this is true, implied contract, though dubious, can still place people into hot water. DE isn't going to risk that, and unlike certain companies *cough*EA*cough*, DE actually has integrity. They've shown that in the past by removing things that, despite being extremely profitable, simply wasn't right. And to go back on the exclusivity that was promised to the Founders - regardless of rank - would utterly shatter that integrity that they have.

Edited by Lockheed
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