[The Sacrifice] Are The Sentients The Good Guys?

[Spartan336]

So here's my theory. 

I think that the Sentients aren't entirely bad. In fact, I think the Orokin were much worse. 

The line "...But you know we would bring ruin to it in time, just as we did with Earth." is pretty telling. It suggests that The War was brought about by the Orokin threat to the newly colonized system. Why were the Orokin a threat? Just look at Ordis's story line. We know they oppress and toy with people in a way that makes North Korea look tame. Hell, look at Ballas. He's a pretty evil character from what we've seen isn't he? What he did to Umbra was pretty messed up. Then again, he did defect to the Sentients, so there's an argument to be made. 

Not all my thoughts are in place at the moment, but I believe that the Sentients instigated the war knowing that the Orokin were going to oppress the life out of them. Most of the Orokin died in the process, and they used the Tenno to do it. We also see that they survived and are fully operating in some large capacity, so I think it's safe to say that they won. But when they won and the Orokin turned up dead, they didn't invade the solar system and take over. They just kept to themselves. But then there's the Lotus and Hunhow, which I'm trying to make sense of.

I think I've got Hunhow's motives down pretty well. He wants to destroy the Tenno while his daughter does not. Wanting to destroy the Tenno doesn't actually make him evil, despite being feared by pretty much everyone. The Tenno were Orokin weapons after all. It makes sense that he'd want to eliminate the infested abominations and void children. But then there's the Lotus, who wants the exact opposite. As we all know, she is a Sentient, and isn't evil either, at least as far as we know. She helps Cetus and other various good things, using us as her tool to do so. 

I'm pretty certain I'm right, but maybe there's info I lack. Feel free to debate this down in the comments. 

[(PSN)Zero_029]

Well from the Natah Quest it's stated that the Sentients in the Origin System are just a handful/strikeforce.

The majority of them are in Tau. So they are 100% Operating.

In war everyone is a shade of gray. No one is truly good or evil. It's all subjective.

If the Sentients were ONLY after the Orokin then I'd 100% label them good guys.

But I believe they attacked regular colonies too with sole intention of wiping them out. Hence Cetus & The Unum's situation.

So they aren't good guys. The Orokin were not good guys either, slavery, torture, corruption, genetic experiments, no moral doctrines.

No one is a good guy in Warframe. Not even the Lotus.

[Ham_Grenabe]

There aren't any obvious good guys in Warframe, to be honest. I'd put the sentients out in front, though, in terms of generalized Doing The Right Thing-ness, with the exception of the Lotus.  I do not count her among the forces of even-slightly-good. 

If the Lotus never returns, or better yet, dies at the hands of the Tenno, I will consider it a fitting end. I really don't like her.

[CatboyPrincess]

5 minutes ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

There aren't any obvious good guys in Warframe, to be honest. I'd put the sentients out in front, though, in terms of generalized Doing The Right Thing-ness, with the exception of the Lotus.  I do not count her among the forces of even-slightly-good. 

If the Lotus never returns, or better yet, dies at the hands of the Tenno, I will consider it a fitting end. I really don't like her.

Why don't you think the Lotus is good? Just curious, haven't seen this perspective.

[Nagranok]

32 minutes ago, Ham_Grenabe said:

There aren't any obvious good guys in Warframe, to be honest. I'd put the sentients out in front, though, in terms of generalized Doing The Right Thing-ness, with the exception of the Lotus.  I do not count her among the forces of even-slightly-good. 

If the Lotus never returns, or better yet, dies at the hands of the Tenno, I will consider it a fitting end. I really don't like her.

Now this, I really don't understand. Unless I'm reading it wrong, you're arguing that most sentients are leaning toward morally "good" except the Lotus. 

I mean, up until very recently the Lotus has just been using the Tenno to keep the Grineer/Corpus conflict from ending and messing up the whole origin system, as well as trying to keep the infestation from overrunning the system. 

Compare to Hunhow, with whom our first real interactions involve him attempting to murder us by sending the stalker to kill the sleeping Tenno. 

Or the unnamed sentients in the past who went after Cetus/Unum for some unknown reason. 

I'm not arguing the Lotus is good or not. We don't know her current motives. But I disagree with calling the other sentients we've met so far anything approaching "morally good"

Edited June 17, 2018 by Nagranok
Autocorrect reeee

[Spartan336]

30 minutes ago, (PS4)Zero_029 said:

Well from the Natah Quest it's stated that the Sentients in the Origin System are just a handful/strikeforce.

The majority of them are in Tau. So they are 100% Operating.

In war everyone is a shade of gray. No one is truly good or evil. It's all subjective.

If the Sentients were ONLY after the Orokin then I'd 100% label them good guys.

But I believe they attacked regular colonies too with sole intention of wiping them out. Hence Cetus & The Unum's situation.

So they aren't good guys. The Orokin were not good guys either, slavery, torture, corruption, genetic experiments, no moral doctrines.

No one is a good guy in Warframe. Not even the Lotus.

Yeah there it is. I didn't know they went after Cetus. That does mean that there are defiantly factions within the Sentients that have opposing interests though. Overall, I'd say they are still the closest thing we have to 'good', at least compared to the other factions in the game. 

[(PSN)Zero_029]

1 hour ago, Spartan336 said:

Yeah there it is. I didn't know they went after Cetus. That does mean that there are defiantly factions within the Sentients that have opposing interests though. Overall, I'd say they are still the closest thing we have to 'good', at least compared to the other factions in the game. 

If my memory is correct. (I'm out & not by my codex or Simaris Archives.)

I believe the Sentients came to destroy all the Orokin built & purge the Origin System of non-Sentients.

They wanted to destroy everything Orokin, and make the planets their own. They viewed all humanity as descendants of Orokin, future Orokin, & pests that have infested all the planets.

Had Lotus not betrayed them. They would have succeeded hands down.

I think they are as bad as the Grineer honestly. Xenophobic, but also victims of The Orokin's cruelty.

I think Corpus are the closest to "Good" we can get. As they are just belligerently greedy. They don't want everyone dead/extinct atleast.

[Ham_Grenabe]

1 hour ago, Gwyndolin-chan said:

Why don't you think the Lotus is good? Just curious, haven't seen this perspective.

There are a lot of things--and it didn't start out that way; at first she was your typical Basic Quest Giver. Over time and as she developed in the various quests, though, I soured on her. Basically -- even without her "I'm now your mommy even when people tell me I'm not I really am, look I'm wearing her skin"*, which I find a little creepy if I think about it too much -- I don't get the impression the Lotus wants what's best for anyone else unless it's also what's best for her. 

Now, recent events could certainly turn out to be a complex plot so she can defeat all the Bad Guys she perceives, and later we'll be sitting around and she'll say "Remember when the Stalker stabbed right through you?" and we'll all laugh and laugh, but...I doubt it.

 

 

* I know she's not literally wearing Margulis' skin. Or at least, I'm relatively certain of that. Okay, I really hope she's not.

[Marvelous_A]

They are not good or bad. Sentient and Tenno are just nemesis of each other and we really don't have evidence to prove that they attack neutral factions on purpose also.

[Legion-Shields]

I think everyone is the good guy here.

[CriticalFumble]

4 hours ago, Spartan336 said:

Why were the Orokin a threat?

We actually still don't know what the specific "ruin" the Orokin were causing was.  The Crewman synthesis has one of the higher ups refer to Mars as a cushy place to be while the empire was falling apart, implying that it was a resource or environmental issue somehow.  Given the setting, it could have been related to Kuva, the body hopping, and associated human rights violations, but probably not directly. 

You could also flip your idea on its head and absolve the Orokin.  After all, they were trying to survive and keep their way of life.  Turing people into warframes came after the Sentient war kicked off and all their regular weapons failed, that and using the Tenno were necessary for survival.  As far as Ordis goes, wasn't he asking for it?  They were going to give him a new body, make him immortal, and he decides to try to kill them.  Of course they punished him for that. 

See how easy, and worrisome, that logic is? 

As far as not invading, that assumes they were in any condition to do so.  The Orokin thought they had won right up until they were all killed, so its reasonable to assume that the Sentient forces were beaten convincingly.  Its likely that they've been sleeping or rebuilding while waiting on the signal Natah never sent. 

And with Hunhow, you could argue that he's just doing his job (worrisome logic pops up again) but somehow I doubt he got the "Destroyer of Worlds" title for avoiding unnecessary fatalities. 

[LupisV0lk]

Quite frankly outside of us the Tenno. The only groups we can say with confidence as the "good guys" is Steel Merdian and The Perrin Sequence.

[(PSN)watt4hem]

Clem and darvo are the only good guys in warframe. Suda & symaris are neutral, and vull & sark are just out to have some fun.

[AcceI]

Doesn't matter anymore.  Sure, why not.

[hooperinius]

Pretty much everything is bad guy cannon fodder for the player.

I think that the next xpack or whatever will have a lot of sentient enemies, or be focused on the threat of sentient invasion.

[Sziklamester]

There are no pure good or pure evils in this game because everyone has it's own motivations why does what they do. We tennos killing for Lotus in the name of the balance but we don't know yet what the Lotus is hiding from us and what cards are in her hands. Hunhow see us as a weapon made by the Orokin and that is enough why he want to kill us. Grineer and Corpus seemingly want to control the origin system but they are both seeking for the Tau and copy the orokin technology. The Orokin "were" still have their own motivations and they not all are dead. They created the warframes to control and eliminate the others or keep them in slavery so our role in Orokin era and in "Lotus era" is the same but with a different purpose. The orokins were also trash peoples whom tried to fool the death and manipulate everything for their needs. Sentients were sent to colonize new system then they turned out against their creators and as we see they won but not want to dominate so maybe they are just defending their "home".

This is a "game of thrones" story but with more variations and shades. I see no morally good persons here because everyone have their own thingies what we can say seemingly the void childrens the only close to the pure good but nor the syndicates nor major factions aren't pure evil or good. This game that's why not a happy end and you always commiting crime to murder thousands and millions in this game with no morals so finally we players also not pure good or evil.

[Rakosta_Kai]

Gotta say it...

As to the rest, alignments like good and bad really are subjective.

For my part, I'd say the only good guy in the game is Stalker...and He's a vigilante.

What makes him good? He's consistent and transparent in his goals and methods.

The Orokin and Sentients have  shown a willingness to use subterfuge to meet their ends, hence they can't be trusted.

Edited June 18, 2018 by Padre_Akais

[Miser_able]

No one's the good guy. That's the point. 

[(XBOX)ShadowBlood89]

The reason the sentients turning against the orokin was of noble cause but also meant all things related to the orokin would be destroyed with the bias of not including the sentients themselves.
The orokin created the warframes an the tenno have power that is poison them so must take out the danger to themselves an the weapons that were build by who they see a threat to there own lives.

Pretty much all human life is dangerous an must be destroyed for they have connection to the orokin.

 

[(PSN)teacup775]

7 hours ago, Spartan336 said:

So here's my theory. 

I think that the Sentients aren't entirely bad. In fact, I think the Orokin were much worse. 

Yes, Orokin are deva like beings who never managed to transcend the 4 lower realms  (drawing on buddhist terms here... well because a lotus is prolly one of the singular symbols from it and the themes being played in these quest with draw on it in my view). Every faction is a scarred remnant of their hand.

The sentients are one of those creations deeply screwed. For the sentients, above retribution, their highest desire would be to bear offspring.

We suppose Ballas is defecting to the sentients out of revenge, but maybe there is more going on. Enter Natah knowing of the qualities Ballas describes the tenno having (um like taking away pain, surviving the void) and what we know of transferrence and warframes after the Sacrifice. The dream mentioned may have been hers as well, for the sentients in the long run. What would the parties involved risk and for what?

Revisit the exchange between Ballas and Lotus in the Apostasy and see if you come away with a different perspective after the Sacrifice.

Lastly the imagery used for Natah as she scoops up Ballas reminded me of something. White scarves are offereing of peace. All of which can just be completely wrong, but still...

https://fpmt.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/30/inspiration-reboot-at-cpmt-2014-wrapping-up-a-packed-week/untitled-1474.jpg?x88325

[(PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson]

1 hour ago, (XB1)ShadowBlood89 said:

The reason the sentients turning against the orokin was of noble cause but also meant all things related to the orokin would be destroyed with the bias of not including the sentients themselves.
The orokin created the warframes an the tenno have power that is poison them so must take out the danger to themselves an the weapons that were build by who they see a threat to there own lives.

Pretty much all human life is dangerous an must be destroyed for they have connection to the orokin.

 

Is mass killing noble, I wonder. Does cause always justifies the means?

[(XBOX)ShadowBlood89]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)Shaun-T-Wilson said:

Is mass killing noble, I wonder. Does cause always justifies the means?

turning against them as they would bring ruin to the tau system.
the war an mass killing wasnt

[Kronxito]

9 hours ago, Spartan336 said:

So here's my theory. 

I think that the Sentients aren't entirely bad. In fact, I think the Orokin were much worse. 

The line "...But you know we would bring ruin to it in time, just as we did with Earth." is pretty telling. It suggests that The War was brought about by the Orokin threat to the newly colonized system. Why were the Orokin a threat? Just look at Ordis's story line. We know they oppress and toy with people in a way that makes North Korea look tame. Hell, look at Ballas. He's a pretty evil character from what we've seen isn't he? What he did to Umbra was pretty messed up. Then again, he did defect to the Sentients, so there's an argument to be made. 

Not all my thoughts are in place at the moment, but I believe that the Sentients instigated the war knowing that the Orokin were going to oppress the life out of them. Most of the Orokin died in the process, and they used the Tenno to do it. We also see that they survived and are fully operating in some large capacity, so I think it's safe to say that they won. But when they won and the Orokin turned up dead, they didn't invade the solar system and take over. They just kept to themselves. But then there's the Lotus and Hunhow, which I'm trying to make sense of.

I think I've got Hunhow's motives down pretty well. He wants to destroy the Tenno while his daughter does not. Wanting to destroy the Tenno doesn't actually make him evil, despite being feared by pretty much everyone. The Tenno were Orokin weapons after all. It makes sense that he'd want to eliminate the infested abominations and void children. But then there's the Lotus, who wants the exact opposite. As we all know, she is a Sentient, and isn't evil either, at least as far as we know. She helps Cetus and other various good things, using us as her tool to do so. 

I'm pretty certain I'm right, but maybe there's info I lack. Feel free to debate this down in the comments. 

I also want to exterminate Orokin. They are a nasty mind destroyer civilization.

The problem I see here is Hunhow wants to destroy tenno also (as we were created by Orokin).

In my opinion, if Hunhow says "ok we wont kill the tenno as they are not like Orokin people", then I wouldnt have any problem against sentients. Even I would ask them for an alliance against grineer and corpus in order to finally give some peace to the solar system. Once that is done, we could start building an honorable civilization in peace, a civilization which doesn't bring ruin in time but sustainability

Edited June 18, 2018 by AnGeL_KRoM

[(PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson]

24 minutes ago, (XB1)ShadowBlood89 said:

turning against them as they would bring ruin to the tau system.
the war an mass killing wasnt

War to exterminate the orokin, planned mass killing. They cant claim self defense if they start the war because of their own ideals.

Edited June 18, 2018 by (PS4)Shaun-T-Wilson

[Firetempest]

The sentients are just as flawed as their creators with bouts of spiteful, greedy motives. The Lotus was the greediest. Being rendered sterile she took countless agents of the enemy and because they were easily manipulated in their dream trances could take them for her own. Not for our own sake but for hers. Did she see fit to keep us quietly hidden and take us away from war or did she use us as a private military running a endless shadow war which kept the system in perpetual chaos. What happened to the operators whos Warframe died before they woke? Did she just plug them right the hell back in to a newly activated frame? The operators have Stockholm still and we just think momma's confused, she's still out there... She... She just needs her care precepts rebooted is all. Right Ordis!?