Let Rift Surge do more?

[PsiWarp]

I feel that default Rift Surge isn't doing much for an ability. It doesn't cast if there are no rift-bound enemies around you. It doesn't do anything special to material-bound enemies if the surge jumped to them. Plus, it heavily depends on Banish, Cataclysm and duration timers to use its basic function of radial banishment.

Some ideas:

• Can be cast as long as there are enemies around Limbo. Surges material-bound enemies as well.
• Grants Limbo and teammates Rift Sight when they are rift-bound. Rift-bound enemies that are affected by Rift Surge are shown on the minimap and can be seen through walls.
• Killing surged enemies causes the surge to transfer to both material-bound and rift-bound enemies if they aren't already surged. The new enemy that receives the surge takes 50% damage from the killing blow on the previous enemy.

Point 1 enables Rift Surge + Cataclysm combo in Corpus and Void missions with tons of Nullifiers around. Surge material-bound enemies, throw up a bubble, it gets nullified and collapses throwing those enemies into the Rift via radial banish.

Point 2 helps players (mostly Limbo himself) identify stragglers in the Rift. I don't know if it's just me, but I tend to try shooting Rift Surged enemies thinking they are already rift-bound, when in reality the surge just jumped outside the Rift via killing a guy previously. With Rift Sight I know exactly which enemies I can hit and where to find them.

Point 3 improves Limbo's performance in kills-based missions like Exterminate, Survival, and Sanctuary Onslaught. Transfer dealing half damage from the lethal hit on a previously surged enemy means there is potential to create a chain reaction of diminishing damage that spreads outward to unsurged enemies, whether they are material-bound or rift-bound, the surge persists as long as there are unaffected enemies in range. Kinda thematic since Rift Surge creates Rift lightning, which didn't feel right being so harmless.

 

 

Edited June 18, 2018 by PsiWarp

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

it has uses.

used right its a bit like spores, but instead of damage, it spreads rift banishing.

used with the augment its got huge damage bonus potential as well.

[PsiWarp]

True, but it does nothing on its own and is just Banish in a different way. Seems like there's room to grow as an independent ability.

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

The way I use Rift Surge is very simple. Primarily for its augment but by itself, its rift management.

- If you cast banish on a group of enemies and you accidentally scoop a player, cast Rift Surge before trying to unbanish the other player. This makes sure that enemies don't leave the rift accidentally while trying to kick someone out of the rift.

- Another and the most common is banishing enemies without banishing other players by comboing it with Cataclysm. It makes it so you can banish an entire area of enemies without accidentally scooping players mixed in with them.

I do like the idea of Rift Sight but that shouldn't require Rift Surge. Limbo should be able to keep track of all enemies in the rift by an indicator appearing on the rifted enemy's head. The indicator acts like a way point so Limbo players WILL KNOW if there's at least 1 enemy running around in the rift that might accidentally confuse other players trying to kill it. Sometimes spamming banish to kick all potentially banished enemies out doesn't work if you don't know which general direction to face.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

2 hours ago, PsiWarp said:

True, but it does nothing on its own and is just Banish in a different way. Seems like there's room to grow as an independent ability.

It's definitely too dependent on the augment to be unique, and too similar to to his other abilities currently to really have a place in his kit with out.

Those added mechanics could definitely help out. And I love the Rift Sight idea.

16 minutes ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

an indicator appearing on the rifted enemy's head

I like the idea of Limbo and his allies being able to more clearly detect rifted enemies, but I would prefer it be something more natural than a floating indicator. I'm thinking more like all enemies are covered in a more dense rift energy visually, similar to the Cataclysm animation effect, that covers the enemy default textures and color schemes so players know just by looking at them they aren't in the same phasing. This would apply to any enemy on the opposite plane from you, so if you're rifted the non-rifted ones would show a blatant color shift. Although for non-rifted I wonder if it should be blatantly muted colors on them to differentiate it. Either way, this color change would only be visible to players on opposite planes from the target, enemies would still look normal when you're on the same plane.

But we also need it to be more apparent when we're in the rift too when enemies aren't around. It'd be nice if the whole world, outside him and rifted enemies/allies, was a whole different color. But if that's too much trouble just have a very clear energy animation that frames the screen when you're in the rift. 

[crackbeard]

because the augment is so powerful i cant really see them buffing it lol

[mactrent]

6 hours ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

- Another and the most common is banishing enemies without banishing other players by comboing it with Cataclysm. It makes it so you can banish an entire area of enemies without accidentally scooping players mixed in with them.

It would be nice if we didn't have to worry about that either - if allies had to opt-in to the Rift, or better yet, could attack things in the Rift from across planes.  One option I like for this is for Rift Surged enemies to be attackable from either plane.  The drawback would be that they could attack Tenno in either plane, and would be (at least partly) immune to Stasis.  Surge only would spread if enemies were killed by someone in the Rift, so other Tenno couldn't troll Limbo and get him killed.

[SixDimensions]

@PsiWarp I agree that Rift Surge should be able to do more.  If I'm not mistaken, when they were first showcasing the rework (or at least talking about some changes) they had mentioned that Surged enemies would have a mechanic where damage would jump to or chain to enemies on opposite planes and then banish them upon death.  It might be a little overpowered but I think it would be interesting if some amount of damage were mirrored to surged enemies

[Buzkyl]

One of my major gripes with Limbo is that he's very self centered, while many frames do that self focus kits and skills, only Limbo's can actively impede his teammates.

Which is why I would like that Rift Surge provides a buff more intended for teammates. Main reasoning is that Limbo doesn't need to be that much stronger in the Rift but he can stand to lend some of his power to his teammates.

Possible avenues

• Limbo surges allies with Rift energy-Granting increase movement within the Rift and Limbo's passive 10e per kill to enemies inside the Rift.
• Limbo Surges ally weaponry-Granting increase ammo efficiency when inside the Rift.
• Alternatively allowing allies to benefit off the Rift Torrent augment would encourage people to want limbo to send them into.the Rift, where they can deal heavy damage due to Limbo.

Interms of feasibility, having allies received part of the bonus of Rift Torrent would be fantastic. Interms of personal favorite, I would like that allies  to share Limbo passive energy regen feature from option 1.

 

Edited June 18, 2018 by Buzkyl

[PsiWarp]

@(PS4)mahoshonenfox Certainly. Rift Surge is good at what its does, I use it as you've described many times over. It just feels lackluster as its a feature moved from the old single target Banish, now occupying a whole ability that doesn't even function on its own.

Now that Stasis no longer freezes ally gunfire, their projectiles won't distort the Rift, so there's little point to kick players out aside from those that don't know they can roll out and some Haven-related micromanagement. Rift Surge sometimes serve to infuriate more than help since allies can't access the Rift without your help 😞

Rift Sight or some indicator by default would be very nice. I find the battlefield with the Rift and Surge involved to be very visually chaotic.

On a side note, perhaps we can entertain the idea of Rift Surge (hold-cast) to unbanish all rift-bound enemies in range around Limbo? If it did that, a hold-cast without surging enemies would force them all out, while a hold-cast with surged enemies around you would trigger the radial banishment all around you. You'd still have the option to use Banish to manage a pizza slice portion you're facing, or Rift Surge to get everything out/back in. As Limbo, you can also unbanish them back to the material plane while you're also material-bound, knocking everything over as you pump them full of holes.

 

@(PS4)Riko_113 Agreed, there's a lot of potential for a standalone ability here.

The Rift visuals on enemies would do well to be more pronounced. I'd personally prefer they go the translucency and silhouette route, placing more emphasis on the black contours and shadows that signify the Rift.

Since melee 3.0 is removing channeling all together, I hope we can to see its cool dissolve effect for enemy deaths in the Rift. It's an awesome visual for a mysterious realm like this.

 

@crackbeard I love Rift Torrent, but only because it's that much more useful than the default ability which is overshadowed by its augment's potency.

 

@mactrent It'll be the day I see people respond with "just roll", but instead of exiting the Rift, it's for entering it as well.

It may be interesting to allow Rift Surged rift-bound enemies to auto-banish players who hit them with weapons (from either plane), so they can deal with them in the Rift directly. With Stasis "fixed", gunplay in the Rift is perfectly viable nowadays and won't halt for any reason. Although I'd like to see this feature as a passive function of the Rift mechanic, so Banish and Cataclysm are included and fully eliminates the Rift divide messing with weapon users.

 

@SixDimensions As I recall in-dev Rift Surge 2.0 created mini-Cataclysm bubbles and dealt some damage to material-bound enemies the surge jumps to. I was a bit disappointed to see it stripped to its barebones state on revisited release.

 

@Buzkyl Excellent ideas. I agree, aside from the Rift mechanic itself providing invulnerability and energy regen, plus now with Stasis being much more team-friendly, much of Limbo's kit revolves around his control of his realm (mostly entry and exit). It doesn't explore other possible quirks an entirely new dimension can bring about.

As Limbo is both a buff and debuff frame with CC-centric capabilities and a source of energy restoration, it's not that farfetched to come up with other useful buffs for his team! Movement speed, lowered gravity, parkour proficiency, reload, fire rate, weapon switching, damage, critical, status, body part multipliers, etc. There's much to work with.

I particularly like your first and third suggestions for more incentives to use the Rift frequently.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

4 hours ago, PsiWarp said:

The Rift visuals on enemies would do well to be more pronounced. I'd personally prefer they go the translucency and silhouette route, placing more emphasis on the black contours and shadows that signify the Rift.

Since melee 3.0 is removing channeling all together, I hope we can to see its cool dissolve effect for enemy deaths in the Rift. It's an awesome visual for a mysterious realm like this.

I do actually like that better, yes. It would have less visual clutter on the screen than my idea, but still get the point across that they are not "valid targets" for standard attacks. And yeah, I love the dissolving corpses. Lol

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

I remember when the rift effects were incredibly blinding. There were these huge white flames engulfing and enemy that looked like Lord of the Rings. Its fine on 1 enemy but on an entire mob, its hard to see. They toned it down now but its hard to tell if an enemy is in the rift now. The only way I could think of them balancing it out is to be really blunt about it with an indicator on the head. Maybe they should even write "banish" because the average player doesn't know what banish does. Limbo is a warframe that does not hold your hand but since most players (and gamers now in general) need their hands to be held or else they whine, might as well do it.

I never liked the idea of rift surge jumping out to enemies outside of the rift if they die while surged. I would prefer surged enemies that die simply pop the radial banish. The electric effect confuses players. Is that enemy in the rift or not? But its surged...

Rift Torrent is very strong but I wouldn't mind if Limbo can share the damage buff with all warframes in the rift. I mean, it doesn't work outside of the rift. They have to be in the rift to make it work. This would also make other players want to be in the rift other than cover and energy regen.