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As a founder I am extremely upset about umbra.


tripletriple
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8 minutes ago, -SDM-NerevarCM said:

And you think that no one here knows this story.

Many people here, including myself saw all the interviews and saw in first hand the start of this game.

Founders still have all their unique stuff, the only change is that now all the other players have acess to a better version of Excalibur, including the founders, instead of being stuck with the worst version.

Meanwhile the Founders still have their items. The unique version of Excalibur that only they can have called Excalibur Prime.

Yes, founders still have all their unique stuff, the only change is that the best item that they got from being a founder became obsolete when a shinier, better version got released. What the founders lost was the feeling of having something special when they signed up for the Founder's Program.

When I joined Warframe back in 2013 I wasn't all willing to shell out the cash for the founders packs, but some people saw a future in the game and went for it and supported the game. Even with the overpriced tags, the founders paid for it, and got something shiny. Now, they still do have it in their inventories, but you cannot deny the fact that Excalibur Prime is inferior to Umbra, which makes him way less shiny than he was before. Umbra is just better in every aspect and there is no reason for the founders to use Excal Prime unless they want to use it in pubs to show off its inferiority to three other tenno using Umbra.

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54 minutes ago, tripletriple said:

Sigh, I thought people would be more understanding. I'm not sure what happened to the warframe community. Used to be filled with nice people.

It's not bad for me to say I was given something that was supposed to be one of a kind and then I got upset because they copy pasted it with added functionality. Is that truly hard for people to level with?

probably since people don't get why i would have preferred using the projectile limit to nerf stasis instead of a straight duration cut. any unpopular opinion is going to get whined at.

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2 minutes ago, ZeroGenmu said:

So I looked at op's profile and his most used frames ranked from most used to least is this:

Rhino: 12.2%, 16.3mill exp, 9.3k kills, 1.1k assists

Nova: 11.3%, 10.5mill exp, 34.5k kills, 6.2k assists

Loki: 9.9%, 5.3mill exp, 70 kills, 66 assists

Vauban: 6.6%, 8.5mill exp, 9.2k kills, 12.2k assists

Nekros: 4.5%, 10mill exp, 1.8k kills, 1.2k assists

Valk: 4.5%, 9.8mill exp, 7.3k kills, 718 assists

Loki Prime: 4%, 12.2mill exp, 1.5k kills, 2.4k assists

Ember Prime: 3.2%, 53mill exp, 53k kills, 7.3k assists

Excalibur Prime: 3.1%, 4.8mill exp, 2.4k kills, 574 assists

I'm not even going to mention the rest of your frames, because some of them have more kills and exp gain than your Excal Prime with less usage. I know most of these numbers don't mean much since Ember racks up exp and kills like crazy. But for someone who's so adamant about being "cheaped" out on an exclusive item it seems like you hardly play the frame.

 

So why even get mad when you barely even use it, it's just gathering dust in your inventory.

***MIC DROP!****

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4 minutes ago, ZeroGenmu said:

So I looked at op's profile and his most used frames ranked from most used to least is this:

Rhino: 12.2%, 16.3mill exp, 9.3k kills, 1.1k assists

Nova: 11.3%, 10.5mill exp, 34.5k kills, 6.2k assists

Loki: 9.9%, 5.3mill exp, 70 kills, 66 assists

Vauban: 6.6%, 8.5mill exp, 9.2k kills, 12.2k assists

Nekros: 4.5%, 10mill exp, 1.8k kills, 1.2k assists

Valk: 4.5%, 9.8mill exp, 7.3k kills, 718 assists

Loki Prime: 4%, 12.2mill exp, 1.5k kills, 2.4k assists

Ember Prime: 3.2%, 53mill exp, 53k kills, 7.3k assists

Excalibur Prime: 3.1%, 4.8mill exp, 2.4k kills, 574 assists

I'm not even going to mention the rest of your frames, because some of them have more kills and exp gain than your Excal Prime with less usage. I know most of these numbers don't mean much since Ember racks up exp and kills like crazy. But for someone who's so adamant about being "cheaped" out on an exclusive item it seems like you hardly play the frame.

 

So why even get mad when you barely even use it, it's just gathering dust in your inventory.

Funny fact, if OP played actively, Excal P would have millions of kills. Because it actually was a really good XP farm frame on draco before they reworked his skills.

Edited by Quimoth
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46 minutes ago, tripletriple said:

I'm trying my best to make you understand why it upsets a lot of founders. I'll put it another way.

Imagine you made a deal with someone and they said we will make this thing just for you and no one else will get anything like it. 

 

You excited say okay sweet. Then you find out they've made something like it to someone else and when you confront them their answer is "it's not the same its better". Do you see now why it's like trust is broken? Please guys don't be rude. Try and understand it in our footsteps.

But DE never told you they'd not make something like it. They said they would never re-release those specific things. Your trust issues are entirely your own here. DE fully held their end of the bargain and any complaining on top of that is frankly unbecoming of a player.

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5 minutes ago, Blue_Robot said:

I am not a founder, but I fully understand this. This feels a bit unfair especially since founders played a HUGE part in Warframe's existence. The founders pretty much placed their trust on DE and its product during uncertain/unstable times, and kinda got screwed over when Warframe finally found its place in the market. 

What makes me even more sad is that the community has devolved into a toxic mess and doesn't even realize that the founders played a huge role way back when DE didn't have enough financial power to sustain and develop the game. I can even see that some posters are glad that the founders were screwed over.

Anyone whose spent enough time on the forums probably already knows the story. Do you have any idea how often threads about keeping it exclusive or not keeping it exclusive there have been? How many defender and detractors both founders and not who have argued over excal prime.

Its an old story. They helped back them. they got something no one else can get. Special items only marginally better to keep balance. Which was smart because you know how many more whiners there would if they made something exceedingly better that no one else could get? It essentially a badge saying you did this. Not a supercharged stick to completely outclass everyone elses stick. Some, founders and non founders, understand this and are fine. Then there are the others that make it an argument.

And how the heck are you feeling sorry for people who continue to have their exclusive items and have the same chance to aquire something new everyone else can.

Who you should be feeling sorry for is those types that like to collect everything in game. There will now always be something they can't get. Meanwhile, some founders are over there on a pedastal of three excals holding them up and complaining.

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I'll assemble the worlds smallest String quartet for you. You got a shiny excalibore a long time ago and now here in the present everyone who braves the terrible operator combat can have a black excalibore. ~ Its a excalibore still no matter how you colour it.

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4 minutes ago, ZeroGenmu said:

Rhino: 16.3mill exp

Nova: 10.5mill exp

Loki: 5.3mill exp

Vauban: 8.5mill exp

Nekros: 10mill exp

Valk: 9.8mill exp

Loki Prime: 12.2mill exp

Ember Prime: 53mill exp

Excalibur Prime: 4.8mill exp

That moment when your Wukong has reached a higher amount of xp than the listed values here put together.

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23 minutes ago, CalmLikeAB0mb said:

are you blind too or you just pretend to be? just tell a item/gear/warframe/ weapon any the founders have and non-founders have too? and dont tell me about umbra abilities are the same and blah blah blah... because the normal excal have the same abilities and no1 said nothing... but know only because umbra is better tehn excal prime they fell cheated... plsssss cry is free but this is already behind ignorant

And you are exactly what I meant by the community being toxic. Thanks for being a prime example of that.

And also, you said it yourself. Umbra is better than prime, and is free to boot. The founders needed to pay for an even slightly better version of excal. Now, what they paid for is useless since a better version exists.

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4 minutes ago, Blue_Robot said:

Umbra is better than prime, and is free to boot.

Actually, prime got buffed to match the stats of umbra when unmodded. Umbra is only better than prime thanks to umbral mods having a halved cost when equipped on him, and still all 3 umbral mods can be used on prime with enough forma investment, thing that i'm sure anyone actually willing to play with excal prime wouldn't have any issue to do even if it means sacrificing a bit of build versatility.

Edited by ----Legacy----
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Just now, Blue_Robot said:

The founders needed to pay for an even slightly better version of excal.

No, founders paid to support the game.

To my knowledge the only benefit that Excalibur Prime had over Excalibur on release was the 250 energy from Void orbs, which is such a minor bonus that nobody paid for it specifically for that. There was absolutely no indication at the time that, beyond the death orbs, Prime Warframes were supposed to be better, just cooler looking.

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as a founder I would like to just take the time to say that OP does not represent the majority of founders. I think its great that everyone gets a better excal! maybe now people will shut up about it in the forums... but they wont.

That being said iv seen the suggestion of letting founders use excal primes helm and body on umbra which lets us still show off a little, I like that.  

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1 hour ago, tripletriple said:

Sigh, I thought people would be more understanding. I'm not sure what happened to the warframe community. Used to be filled with nice people.

 


I'm retconing my own statement and just going to say this:
That is the single most entitled thing I've ever read on this forum in almost 4 years.

Lock this thread and burn it with fire please.
 

Edited by RetroNomad
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5 minutes ago, (PS4)Lowk721 said:

And how the heck are you feeling sorry for people who continue to have their exclusive items and have the same chance to aquire something new everyone else can.

Who you should be feeling sorry for is those types that like to collect everything in game. There will now always be something they can't get. Meanwhile, some founders are over there on a pedastal of three excals holding them up and complaining.

The thing about it is that it's not about having two or three excals. It's about the fact that what the founders paid for became WAY obsolete when a free and superior version was released. And now there's just no reason to use excal prime since Umbra is just plain better in almost all aspects. 

And also, using excal prime is kinda humiliating now, since everyone knows he's inferior to umbra. Join a public squad and everyone will go "Oh look at the founder, still trying to use excal prime. There's no reason to use it, since Umbra is better. He's just using it to rub his founder status in our faces.". So who in his right mind would use excal prime then?

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4 minutes ago, Blue_Robot said:

And you are exactly what I meant by the community being toxic. Thanks for being a prime example of that.

And also, you said it yourself. Umbra is better than prime, and is free to boot. The founders needed to pay for an even slightly better version of excal. Now, what they paid for is useless since a better version exists.

if you think telling the true is to be toxic you have no idea what a Toxic community is. What this founder is telling us and you agree with him... that is toxic only because you guys are bringing topics that are not true. Rage for all and for nothing is what we have here in this founder topic and that is Toxic and not someone like me who is tired of this kinda of topics and dont give a sh1t what words i use for telling the true... I/we can use very nice works with full of poison and pretty sure you will like it. cmon

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2 minutes ago, ----Legacy---- said:

Actually, prime got buffed to match the stats of umbra when unmodded. Umbra is only better than prime thanks to umbral mods having a halved cost when equipped on him, and still all 3 umbral mods can be used on prime with enough forma investment, thing that i'm sure anyone actually willing to play with excal prime wouldn't have any issue to do even if it means sacrificing a bit of build versatility.

No. Even with heavy forma, you will not be able fit a lot of builds using all three Umbral mods. So that makes Umbra better than Prime.

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The point of the Excal Prime thing was to help support the game. Yes, founders will always exclusively get Excal Prime, but there was no mention of it being the end all be all of Excal's. You still got your exclusive stuff, and you helped get the game on it's feet. That deserves respect. Respect that is still intact. So deal with it. 

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7 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

No, founders paid to support the game.

To my knowledge the only benefit that Excalibur Prime had over Excalibur on release was the 250 energy from Void orbs, which is such a minor bonus that nobody paid for it specifically for that. There was absolutely no indication at the time that, beyond the death orbs, Prime Warframes were supposed to be better, just cooler looking.

I was not aware of that. I thought the Prime variant already had a slight boost to armor back then, but I could be mistaken since armor values got buffed way back and may have failed to notice it.

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1 hour ago, tripletriple said:

I'm trying my best to make you understand why it upsets a lot of founders. I'll put it another way.

Imagine you made a deal with someone and they said we will make this thing just for you and no one else will get anything like it. 

 

You excited say okay sweet. Then you find out they've made something like it to someone else and when you confront them their answer is "it's not the same its better". Do you see now why it's like trust is broken? Please guys don't be rude. Try and understand it in our footsteps.

See here's the thing, your excalibur prime is a medal, a sign of recognition and thanks. But it only had what, 25 additional armour to normal excalibur? And a different look? So I'm sorry but if you were enjoying lording it over others due to having 25 extra armour and therefore a superior excalibur then that comes across as pretty spoilt and snowflake-like. So if that's not the case, then what exactly is it? You still have more mastery than I can ever get. Does this mean if dex skana prime came out you'd be upset too? If not, why not? It's the same damn thing. You need to not look at Excalibur prime as an upgrade to excalibur because in game context it doesn't offer anything different and instead look at it as a medal on the mantlepiece that nobody else can have. Hell make it your warframe image in your personal quarters and be happy.

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3 hours ago, Blue_Robot said:

I was not aware of that. I thought the Prime variant already had a slight boost to armor back then, but I could be mistaken since armor values got buffed way back and may have failed to notice it.

 

Excalibur Prime was exactly the same as Excalibur prior to the rework June 2015 where he received +25 armor.

Edited by LazerSkink
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Just now, Blue_Robot said:

I was not aware of that. I thought the Prime variant already had a slight boost to armor back then, but I could be mistaken since armor values got buffed way back and may have failed to notice it.

The armours were buffed later, each was increased to over 200 from it's original... 65? Excal Primes was simply increased by an additional 25.

There were reports that Excalibur Prime had a slightly faster shield regen speed, but it was never proven nor confirmed by DE.

Just now, Zilchy said:

But it only had what, 25 additional armour to normal excalibur?

Read above, he never originally had a benefit beyond Void ball energy.

Source: https://forums.warframe.com/topic/476490-update-1690/

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5 minutes ago, Blue_Robot said:

The thing about it is that it's not about having two or three excals. It's about the fact that what the founders paid for became WAY obsolete when a free and superior version was released. And now there's just no reason to use excal prime since Umbra is just plain better in almost all aspects. 

Founders paid to support DE and got eternal exclusivity over some items in exchange, the ads of founder access never stated that gear included in it would be the best thing available in game forever. It's not even obsolete since prime still has the perks of 100% damage reduction while the user is in operator mode whereas umbra takes full damage while using his dumb ai.

1 minute ago, Blue_Robot said:

No. Even with heavy forma, you will not be able fit a lot of builds using all three Umbral mods.

That's exactly why i said "sacrificing build versatility"

1 minute ago, Blue_Robot said:

So that makes Umbra better than Prime.

Still both have exactly the same stats when unmodded, prime can equip umbral mods even without the polarities, and as pointed before, prime is still better than umbra for players who are avid users of operator mode (fun enough, this also applies to vanilla excal)

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