What if Umbra is just one among a set of Originals/Uniques?

[ganjou234]

For Excalibur we have Umbra, but what if the next one doesn't necessarily have to be named or placed under the "Umbra" category?

example...

• Gersemi Valkyr? (I know that we have a skin for her...)
• The "Rampant" Rhino in the codex.
• That rouge Chroma?
• The Gara that wiped out those sentients at Cetus
• ......?

Of course I think that it'd be limited because the Orokin would eventually produce mindless ones, perhaps only the frames from the Vanilla version would have their Umbras/Originals/Sentient version?

Here's my theory on the Warframe creation timeline..

• Umbral/Sentient Frames -> The First ones, distinct individualistic warframes that had their own character and story, Hard to produce, made from "volunteers". Ironically Sentient hunting "Sentients"
• Prime Frames ->  Successors of the Umbral/Sentient Frames, used the genetic makeup of the originals (basically clone), perfected control protocols, mindless, a little easier to produce but still hard. Has the Orokin bling.
• New Frames -> First of their kind but not primes, already mindless when made by using knowledge gained from the primes' controls.
• Normal Frames -> Mass produced, cheaper, lower quality than the primes, based on the primes. Mindless.

Maybe we'll be given the oppurtunity to turn our frames sentient?

[Spartan336]

Hmm. Perhaps. Though I don't think that Prime Warframes actually exist in cannon. Feel free to correct me on that. 

[LoveYourEnemy]

Don't forget the Inaros from Baro Kiteer's quest

[VoxGray]

1 hour ago, Spartan336 said:

Hmm. Perhaps. Though I don't think that Prime Warframes actually exist in cannon. Feel free to correct me on that. 

Primes exist in canon as the Warframes used during the Old War. The "normal" variants are weaker replicas created by the Tenno in the absence of Orokin technology.

[Hayabusa97]

11 minutes ago, EmissaryOfInfinity said:

Primes exist in canon as the Warframes used during the Old War. The "normal" variants are weaker replicas created by the Tenno in the absence of Orokin technology.

So that would make Umbra the Prototypes that went berserk

[ganjou234]

Just now, Hayabusa97 said:

So that would make Umbra the Prototypes that went berserk

I'd be so exited to have a "Rampant" Rhino, maybe even a "Rampant" modset.. The codex entry of the one that went on a rampage was pretty badass....

[Vlada91]

In comic they showed all Dax soldiers in 1 place.... so maybe half from that number we can get umbra frame version... And excal is poster boy so he is number 1 that we have right now,next is some frame that we all love 2 playe or better prime look...maybe: Frost Ember,Mag,Nyx,Rhino so that we can have 3 male and 3 female umbra frames. Or maybe we will have more.

Edited June 19, 2018 by Vlada91

[Tarak]

15 minutes ago, ganjou234 said:

-Snip-

So my understanding of the lore is that the Umbra were the original frames, and that Umbra is the designation for such frames. These were individuals selected by Ballas to be purpose infected and twisted into his specific Warframe designs, many prior to, or around the time of the discovery of Tenno transference, and initially intended as standalone war machines. The primes were Orokin era duplications of these Umbra post-Tenno transference discovery, and as such were created with a different transference bolt that essentially prevent the warframe from acting on it's own at all. Our modern non-prime warframes are copies of the Orokin era duplications.

On the other hand, Gersemi Valkyr is just an artist rendition of what they imagined a undamaged 'normal' Valkyr would be. In terms of lore, if it's even supported by the lore it would literally be an alternate outer plating on a normal Valkyr.

[Ham_Grenabe]

It would really kill any emotional impact the entire story might have had. 

[VoxGray]

7 hours ago, Tarak said:

-snip-

 

7 hours ago, ganjou234 said:

-snip-

 

7 hours ago, Hayabusa97 said:

-snip-

Excal Umbra is, as far as we know, the only Umbra ever. What makes him different is that Ballas specifically designed him to retain the memory of being forced to kill his own son. Had it not been for that, he would've become like any other Warframe: highly aggressive until calmed by an Operator. The original Warframe prototypes (which came long before Umbra) have yet to be seen, and appear to have had a far more organic appearance than the Warframes we know. Think Nidus with his Prion helm.

[Tarak]

3 hours ago, EmissaryOfInfinity said:

The original Warframe prototypes (which came long before Umbra) have yet to be seen, and appear to have had a far more organic appearance than the Warframes we know. Think Nidus with his Prion helm.

I'm fully aware of this, But Ballas said during The Sacrifice that all the original warframes failed and turned against the Orokin. In addition, the devs have previously stated that there will likely be more 'Umbras' but just that not every frame will have and umbra. As a side note, though I recognize it isn't necessarily still cannon, in the old leaked War Within quest script Umbra was slated to show up, after which the Operator was to ask Teshin "what's an umbra" (After the elder queen says it), Teshin responded "A Warframe unbound by Tenno control". We also now have and Umbra mod polarity, which will likely be used with more Umbra warframes down the line.

It seems to be fairly clear they intended 'Umbra' to be a designation and not a single frame.

[Ham_Grenabe]

I'm sure they'll make more of them. DE's bread-and-butter is the constant stream of new gear pulling down money, 3-forma bundle purchases, and grind-time, so there will absolutely be more Umbra warframes. Regardless of how thin the justification or how much of a retread it will be. 

Edited June 19, 2018 by Ham_Grenabe

[TARINunit9]

12 hours ago, EmissaryOfInfinity said:

The "normal" variants are weaker replicas created by the Tenno in the absence of Orokin technology.

That's the old lore, Silver Grove retconned it. Speaking of...

13 hours ago, ganjou234 said:

Here's my theory on the Warframe creation timeline..

• Umbral/Sentient Frames -> The First ones, distinct individualistic warframes that had their own character and story, Hard to produce, made from "volunteers". Ironically Sentient hunting "Sentients"
• Prime Frames ->  Successors of the Umbral/Sentient Frames, used the genetic makeup of the originals (basically clone), perfected control protocols, mindless, a little easier to produce but still hard. Has the Orokin bling.
• New Frames -> First of their kind but not primes, already mindless when made by using knowledge gained from the primes' controls.
• Normal Frames -> Mass produced, cheaper, lower quality than the primes, based on the primes. Mindless.

Maybe we'll be given the oppurtunity to turn our frames sentient?

Silver Grove changed it to non-Prime concept model -> Prime Frames -> copies of non-Primes. I have no idea where Umbra frames fit in though. I think they are the first though, since they were originally fielded without Transference

[Hayabusa97]

1 hour ago, TARINunit9 said:

That's the old lore, Silver Grove retconned it. Speaking of...

Silver Grove changed it to non-Prime concept model -> Prime Frames -> copies of non-Primes. I have no idea where Umbra frames fit in though. I think they are the first though, since they were originally fielded without Transference

Umbra frames likely fit in the prototypes stage.

[ganjou234]

9 hours ago, EmissaryOfInfinity said:

 

 

Excal Umbra is, as far as we know, the only Umbra ever. What makes him different is that Ballas specifically designed him to retain the memory of being forced to kill his own son. Had it not been for that, he would've become like any other Warframe: highly aggressive until calmed by an Operator. The original Warframe prototypes (which came long before Umbra) have yet to be seen, and appear to have had a far more organic appearance than the Warframes we know. Think Nidus with his Prion helm.

That's why I said that they dont necessarily have to be named or placed under the "Umbra" category. It could be Gersemi Valkyr, "Rampant" Rhino, and so on.

I also said "perhaps only the frames from the Vanilla version would have their Umbras/Originals/Sentient version" so we could have a limited amount of "Unique Warframes" (just like Umbra). Something not seen in the standard "production line".

[Koldraxon-732]

19 hours ago, ganjou234 said:

[Frames with sentience but aren't Umbras]

[Warframe Project timeline]

Spoiler

 

Alternative non-Umbra frames with their own unique sapience, like shown with Umbra, are currently not possible to manufacture; the only things we've gotten from them were blueprints, and that includes the Primes. Umbra, as a series, is and will be unique because we will find them in pieces, physical ones, and rebuild them even if Ordis says no.

However it is true that the 'Ur-Warframes' or first common-type Warframes, such as Chroma, Inaros, and Mirage, do have the ability to retain memory and act without Tenno guidance. Perhaps, Warframes could be removed of their restraints and given the ability to attain actual memory and become their own person? I suspect some will use this for... personal intentions.

I am under the belief that our Operator may end up being a biological server for the Umbra series. Imagine if the next Umbra we found was coincidentally Nyx? Imagine what crazy possibilities could happen when she is rebuilt and Excalibur (Umbra) is prepared to restrain her. It could get very awkward very quickly. In a good way.

 

Regardless, the Warframe creation timeline to me is as thus:

Spoiler

Infested golems > Transference Surrogates (powerless frames used by Tenno to interact, pre-Warframe Project) > Umbras and Primes > Low-cost variants > The mindless combat shells we throw at our enemies on a daily basis.
Golems:
Mindless monsters molded in crude humanoid shapes forged from living beast-flesh thrown at Sentients as combat forms. Failed, went mad some more.
Surrogation:
Golems, but driven by Tenno minds. Ballas described them in a similar manner. They would possibly be able to adapt their shape to mimic the one controlling them to a degree.
Umbras:
Dax who either signed up or were punished by Ballas, transformed into sapient Warframes with memories preserved, with one given excess weight; a burning memory of a tragic or maybe glorious moment. This description has me thinking Stalker could've been one of the willing ones who underwent this procedure. Building one requires it's original components and detailed scans and analysis by Cephalon, as the blueprints essentially do not exist anywhere besides Ballas' Vitruvian 'diary'.
[Unspecified types]:
Pre-release versions of Warframes that failed to meet specifications and thus were refactored into a new Warframe, recycled -partly or entirely-, preserved due to potential which would be unlocked later, or destroyed due to absolute failure to meet requirements. Whichever Warframes don't get a Prime are ones that meet this 'failed' criteria.
Primes:
Release versions of Warframes during the Orokin Era which are simply perfect. They remember nothing.
Low-cost:
Cheap versions of Primes that function rather effectively, in spite of the low-quality materials used. The original versions of them likely had imperfect Transference restraints, allowing them to gain sapience and remain active without their Operators. Unfortunately all cases of these 'imperfect restraints' we know of thus far have been destroyed.
Current:
Low-cost and Prime versions, without any sign of sapience except crude instincts and vague echoes that somehow linger deep in the blueprints.

See spoilers for details.

[NeithanDiniem]

18 hours ago, EmissaryOfInfinity said:

Primes exist in canon as the Warframes used during the Old War. The "normal" variants are weaker replicas created by the Tenno in the absence of Orokin technology.

Primes were never canonized as being the ones used in the Old War, only that some ended up there. We have zero confirmation on how many were made. Also, the non-primes were made during the Old War on most of the frames we have, created by the Archimedians as mass production models for the war effort with each archimedian putting their own flare on the frame, leading to the canonization of the variant skins we have for the frames. Some Warframes the Tenno have recreated using existing research already conducted by the Orokin or by reverse-engineering blueprints from destroyed frames.

As for Umbra, with the existence of the Umbra polarity it is unlikely they will make a bunch of differently named frame suffixes. Umbra directly counters Prime in theme, and matches the white/black "morality" system we have with the quests.