Limbo nerf was pointless

[(XBOX)Ghost DaVillain]

12 minutes ago, AkhorLuna said:

 but can someone please explain to me what exactly this duration change accomplished in practice? 

Because they had to compensate for those who would run max range and max DUTATION, being able to blanket whole maps with Cata for almost a minute and a half WHILE being able to shoot Stasis locked enemies now.

So yes, they reduced the dutation To prevent that.

1 hour ago, PsiWarp said:

All weapons now work in the Rift period in multiplayer, there was no way they'd allow a pocket Simulacrum disable AI button to keep a high ability duration.

 He answered this for you earlier

[mactrent]

21 minutes ago, AkhorLuna said:

yes, limbo op, stasis needs nerf, bla bla bla. but can someone please explain to me what exactly this duration change accomplished in practice? If the intention is to nerf his stasis, how is this a nerf? if this is a compensation for the fact that the other changes are a buff, how does the duration change compensate for that? how is that a logical trade-off?

Somewhat tangential to your point, but Stasis' duration always did feel a little weird to me.  You're right, it's just been "on" or "off", and I always un- then re-cast it before the duration ran out, because I was done setting up my shots.  Switching it to a scaling channeled cost like Hysteria seemed like it would have been a good idea at the time.

If I had to assign a rationale to the duration, I'd say it was to encourage us to be more than 2-4 Limbo.  Having the durations match made it the go-to combo, the default way to Limbo.  Having it exactly halved means we can still do it without too much trouble, but this might encourage us to think outside the time-freeze-bubble and use more Banish and Surge to keep things dynamic.  That's arguably a more interactive and fun way to play, so I can understand that reasoning.  It's just a shame Banish and Surge require your teammates to either use damage powers, or get used to having their weapons made irrelevant in a way they haven't often seen often in pubs, aside from intentional trolling.

[Zarlockk]

Nerf?! WHere?!
 

I saw only a buff! I can pew pew enemies without recasting stasis, my teammates no longer dc as soon as they see limbo, my sentinel no longer has bullet/pellet limit.
 

But being serious, duration nerf was needed after such buff. It is huge. Also it is not hard to adapt. He never had Energy issues, nor he will now. All you need is neutral or positive duration which is not hard to achieve. AND he is easier to master now.

Stop crying and mod better.

Edited June 19, 2018 by Zarlockk

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

My biggest issue is that now you can't do the "Get 10(+) Headshots in one aimglide" without being a freaking god at aiming. And console/controller players will have it even worse.

Limbo freezing your shots was the only way that worked.

[AkhorLuna]

19 minutes ago, mactrent said:

Somewhat tangential to your point, but Stasis' duration always did feel a little weird to me.  You're right, it's just been "on" or "off", and I always un- then re-cast it before the duration ran out, because I was done setting up my shots.  Switching it to a scaling channeled cost like Hysteria seemed like it would have been a good idea at the time.

If I had to assign a rationale to the duration, I'd say it was to encourage us to be more than 2-4 Limbo.  Having the durations match made it the go-to combo, the default way to Limbo.  Having it exactly halved means we can still do it without too much trouble, but this might encourage us to think outside the time-freeze-bubble and use more Banish and Surge to keep things dynamic.  That's arguably a more interactive and fun way to play, so I can understand that reasoning.  It's just a shame Banish and Surge require your teammates to either use damage powers, or get used to having their weapons made irrelevant in a way they haven't often seen often in pubs, aside from intentional trolling.

thank you. finally a reasonable argument. and yes, a channel cost would make perfect sense. if you care about flavour, you could even say that limbo has to focus in order to keep the stasis active. this would also keep his passive regeneration in check because right now Limbo just has infinite energy. he doesn't even require flow. players would have to be mindful about using stasis, but they would still have to option for prolonged use. right now, you can keep stasis up 24/7 because by the time one activation runs out, you already have energy for the next.

and I understand the trying to push different builds part. but thinking outside the box is relative. once people get used to the other builds, those will become the norm. the reason why those builds exist in the first place, is because people already had to think outside the box to avoid using stasis. we gained nothing from this change. those builds already existed before. not only that but people will soon realize that banish brings a lot of it's own problems that cataclysm was supposed to solve. it's because of all that that I think reducing the duration was purely annoying and nothing else. and that's why I'm complaining about it. they removed quality of life for the sake of nothing.

[mactrent]

6 minutes ago, AkhorLuna said:

and I understand the trying to push different builds part. but thinking outside the box is relative. once people get used to the other builds, those will become the norm. the reason why those builds exist in the first place, is because people already had to think outside the box to avoid using stasis. we gained nothing from this change. those builds already existed before. not only that but people will soon realize that banish brings a lot of it's own problems that cataclysm was supposed to solve. it's because of all that that I think reducing the duration was purely annoying and nothing else. and that's why I'm complaining about it. they removed quality of life for the sake of nothing. 

Other builds also becoming the norm would be a net positive from that perspective, though.  Any more than two builds is an improvement.  Those other builds do already exist, it's true, and actually see use in solo, thanks to those Banish/Surge problems.  I agree, I think this duration change doesn't do what they want, for exactly that reason.  I'd just rather complain about something else, which has been Limbo's non-solo problem from the beginning.

If those Banish and Surged problems were solved - look at Peek-a-Boo Rift, Automatic Rifting, Rift Surge making enemies accessible from either plane, Opt-in Stasis, or any of those other suggestions.  If any combination of those were put in place, then this duration change, while still not all that salient, at least continues to make sense with the reasoning I guessed at.

Agreed all along, the nerf part of this change is pretty much pointless as-is, but I say the buff part also failed to address the original problem that Limbo Revisited only solidified: allies' gameplay is inherently restricted when not in the same plane as enemies, and even with education, they don't always get a say in opening their options back up.

[itribe]

just made Limbo clappier happier!
cut the duration max the range and damage and BAM!
aoe field clearer now he dont mess up your friends rounds while hes clapping too!

Edited June 19, 2018 by itribe
grammar/readability

[mactrent]

21 minutes ago, itribe said:

just made Limbo clappier happier!
cut the duration max the range and damage and BAM!
aoe field clearer now he dont mess up your friends rounds while hes clapping too!

Eh, we had that for a bit, and DE put the kibosh on it hard.  The raw damage still kills low-level trash regardless, but the scaling mechanics were double-nerfed.  Doesn't look like the intended playstyle.  Without Rift Torrent, it becomes just a numbers-thinner for taking out the weakest enemies by the time you get to mid-levels.  With Rift Torrent, we're back in the same boat, with this Stasis change having made no difference whatsoever.  At least the Surge's re-banish won't last long with a short duration.

[RealPandemonium]

Radial PermaCC powers are relics of older design in Warframe.  We can't get rid of them soon enough.

[LSG501]

2 hours ago, (XB1)Ghost DaVillain said:

Because they had to compensate for those who would run max range and max DUTATION, being able to blanket whole maps with Cata for almost a minute and a half WHILE being able to shoot Stasis locked enemies now. 

So yes, they reduced the dutation To prevent that. 

 He answered this for you earlier

You know you can still do that right, you just need to press 2 again when it runs out...it's not like you'll ever run out energy with limbo.

 

Have to say I'm with the OP on this, I just don't see the reason to reduce the duration other than to make us press the button more often, it doesn't change how limbo can lock down an area in any way other than making you press 2 two or more times during the time cataclysm is up, which depending on your build you might already have been doing already anyway. 

[VoxGray]

...you guys seem to be missing OP's point here. The nerf was ultimately meaningless. Limbo sits in his rift and regenerates energy. He presses his 2 to reactivate Stasis. He's free to do so without consequence because there's never anything in the Rift he didn't put there, and he has functionally unlimited energy. It doesn't matter how often he has to use Stasis, because there are never any consequences to it. The duration change means nothing to Limbo other than having to press a button slightly more often, so what were they hoping to change with it? Speaking honestly, Limbo probably needs an actual nerf, because he outright trivializes anything that isn't an assassinate or exterminate mission, and DE's bound to catch onto that eventually.

Edited June 19, 2018 by EmissaryOfInfinity

[mactrent]

2 minutes ago, EmissaryOfInfinity said:

Speaking honestly, Limbo probably needs an actual nerf, because he outright trivializes anything that isn't an assassinate or exterminate mission, and DE's bound to catch onto that eventually.

Pretty much, yes, probably this.  Plus trivializing those mission types too, if your teammates are lucky enough to be using damage powers.  But if they aren't, you can easily trivialize and disable most of the player-side content (weapons).  I love the Rift as an absolute defense in some circumstances.  I love it as something that Limbo needs to be careful (but has the tools) to manage for his own safety.  I don't like it as negating all of my allies' efforts relating to weapons, which are a major part of the game.

I'd be okay with narrowing my circumstances and making it harder (but still rewarding) for Limbo to do awesome things with the Rift, especially if it means I can let my teammates see how awesome I am without eclipsing their awesomeness.  Bonus points if they can optionally join me in my realm of awesomeness too, and play by the rules I play by (read: old Stasis or similar, Rift Torrent benefits shared, but players outside the Rift can still do damage across planes).  Let's be awesome together.

[000l000]

Of course stasis is an overpowered power since it pretty much freezes every single enemy. Yet it does not kill a thing, Nova or Frost are already "freezing" enemies and even kill them in the process, they are not nerfed though.

Limbo stasis is even more tedious to use since it needs limbo environment to operate, it's part of a well synergized toon and not a click 4 to win. Instead of nerfing stasis they should have changed his Banish (totally ruins other players experience) and his rift surge (quite redundant, not much useful and not team friendly either) - It would have been a way better Limbo update !

[(PSN)psycofang]

4 hours ago, (XB1)Ghost DaVillain said:

Because they had to compensate for those who would run max range and max DUTATION, being able to blanket whole maps with Cata for almost a minute and a half WHILE being able to shoot Stasis locked enemies now.

So...nothing changed then besides like 30 seconds. I can STILL stasis lock a map for nearly a minute. This was logically NOT a nerf nor a compensation, it changed nothing intrinsically. 

 

All it did was accomplish virtually nothing, thats why the timer cut alone makes no sense. 

Hope they leave it be though since not only did they buff limbo, im STILL not paying for the power i have. 

 

TLDR; the "nerf" didnt do anything and limbo only got better.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

It was a heavy handed change.  One i'm not particularly fond of.  Doesn't change any of the builds I use.  But it removes the uniqueness of the ability.  I'm 90% sure that this will be reverted/changed again whenever they actually properly revisit limbo and give him some actual needed qol changes.  This was clearly done in advance of limbo prime being a thing.  How else will you sell one of the most hated frames? By giving people exactly what they asked for.

[XaoGarrent]

6 hours ago, -Kittens- said:

As hard as it is for you to accept, you're going to have to play Warframe now.

Did you read a single thing the OP said? Did you understand anything they outlined? No, the answer is no, else you wouldn't have replied this. Re-re-re-read his post and understand that he was already doing more than most players do.

Or y'know don't, and just go back to spamming 1 or 4 with another frame and thinking you're somehow playing in a more involved manner than the OP. 

JFC, why are comprehension skills so incredibly rare here?

Edited June 19, 2018 by XaoGarrent

[AbstractLemons]

The halved duration is fine the ability to use large cataclysms with stasis now is a significant buff, because you can play with pretty much everyone and can more quickly dispatch enemies with ranged weaponry.

Rift torrent augment will boost your damage significantly allowing you to mow through enemies around you very quickly.

He is finally showing off what he can do for his team mates, breaking the enemy forces into more digestible chunks while providing energy over time and protection new limbo is amazing.

[LAD.Y]

As a limbo main I 100% agree. My friend brought up a similar point. What is the difference with this duration cut? All it does is get me killed more because I'm not used to using it. Also let's be real this duration cut FORCES Limbo, especially in a solo setting, into a using guns since otherwise traversing the terrain in most maps will cut into your kill time which is really something like 20 seconds when you take into account cast times and recast times. DE is just changing all Limbo's play styles for one weapon type for another for no reason. The point is either way the enemies can't move. 

It's hilarious how when us Limbo lovers who've played him from.the beginning fallen in love with him finally speak out against the changes to a frame we love everyone wants to shut us down as whiners when it was the community as a whole who whined as a whole that punished us in the first place. Guess for how much Limbo apparently frustrated people we're still a minority.

[Wyrmius_Prime]

The ''nerf'' doesn't matter. Now you need to press 2 once in 40 secs instead of 80 secs.

[AkhorLuna]

Limbo is a god. I've been saying this since I've first picked him up. so it comes to no surprise to me that he would eventually get nerfed. but if he is going to get nerfed, at least do it properly without taking the fun away. those alternative builds that people use, they all feel like band-aid builds to reduce interaction with squad mates. and I'm not saying those builds are bad or that people shouldn't use them but to me limbo feels like a support frame like trinity or harrow. you can restore energy, lock down mobs, protect mates and objectives... but most people seem to tunnel vision into the solo-play style. some people legit complimented me for using limbo in high risk index. if you play limbo with a team the same way you play solo, then of course it's going to be a hindrance. but playing limbo as an actual support frame is a completely different story. and this is also when he becomes the most broken.

there's this huge contradiction going on that is limbo being completely broken, but also the fact that most people can't use him correctly. so he has to be changed in order to be more team-friendly, but also needs to be nerfed or else he would be too dominant. the result is that he's just going to become a simple dumbed down version that works like every other warframe.

instead of trying to make him popular, just make him balanced but keep him as a niche frame that can cheese some missions. honestly just making his stasis a channel ability would already do a lot to tone him down. this would prevent him from regenerating energy during stasis which gives him a pseudo-cooldown because he would need to regenerate energy in between casts.

[AkhorLuna]

18 minutes ago, LAD.Y said:

As a limbo main I 100% agree. My friend brought up a similar point. What is the difference with this duration cut? All it does is get me killed more because I'm not used to using it. Also let's be real this duration cut FORCES Limbo, especially in a solo setting, into a using guns since otherwise traversing the terrain in most maps will cut into your kill time which is really something like 20 seconds when you take into account cast times and recast times. DE is just changing all Limbo's play styles for one weapon type for another for no reason. The point is either way the enemies can't move. 

It's hilarious how when us Limbo lovers who've played him from.the beginning fallen in love with him finally speak out against the changes to a frame we love everyone wants to shut us down as whiners when it was the community as a whole who whined as a whole that punished us in the first place. Guess for how much Limbo apparently frustrated people we're still a minority.

honestly, I'm completely fine with the replies that I got here. the warframe community is the most reasonable one I have every seen. I have the bad habit of making posts like this when I don't agree with something in other games and the replies that I get there are horrible. like, jeez, no one wished me cancer. is this real life? and the fact that some people actually agreed with me is even more awesome. it just goes to show that people around here are still thinking for themselves.

[-Kittens-]

2 hours ago, EmissaryOfInfinity said:

because he outright trivializes anything that isn't an assassinate or exterminate mission, and DE's bound to catch onto that eventually. 

I'm fairly certain that's not a given as "ease of use" characters have always been present in game in one form or another, also at some point Limbo will need a complete Rhino style rework. Rhino works completely differently than he did when he debuted, and finally after five passes, he's p great and the backbone of any team for any mission.

Like Rhino, Limbo's concept and his mechanics are simply at odds with each other, and final ok done with Limbo may look very different than even current Limbo, but in the meantime Scott probably doesn't reflexively drink four long island ice teas every time Pablo adds the word "limbo's" to the workflow primary to-do database text field.

He's still quite asymmetrical as far as risk-reward goes, and by asymmetrical that means

 

this ain't isn't aren't even my final form, bro

[-Kittens-]

1 hour ago, XaoGarrent said:

Did you read a single thing the OP said? Did you understand anything they outlined? No, the answer is no, else you wouldn't have replied this. Re-re-re-read his post and understand that he was already doing more than most players do.

Or y'know don't, and just go back to spamming 1 or 4 with another frame and thinking you're somehow playing in a more involved manner than the OP. 

JFC, why are comprehension skills so incredibly rare here?

I'm perfectly aware of the OP's intent.

For someone lamenting reading comprehension you lack a keen grasp of hyperbole and sarcasm.

[(PSN)kurasauchiha]

Bro it’s a huge buff. now you have to press buttons more often so what? 

Its the saryn first rework Situation all over again in this thread

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

9 hours ago, NightmareT12 said:

Damn DE, I always knew that in the end all they care about is how Pink we can make our Rhino look. Tststststs.

mine was better before they took away the bunny ears... i won a fashion frame with my Rhino Bunny Prime.