Pyrana Prime confuses me.

[Mara]

Now, before you start getting angry at me, let me get that out of the way : I really like Pyrana Prime. I love the idea of that passive ability. The whole ethereal Pyrana thing ? That's good. I'm a sucker for this kind of things. Now, you might tell yourself "is this another clickbait thread ?" well, no. Probably not. I don't know. Either way, I'm rambling, let me get straight to the point.

Pyrana Prime confuses me because it's a weapon I want to work with, but it won't cooperate. Let me explain what I mean. I mentioned that I really like the passive, but I find it incredibly hard to make it work. Let's review what we know about this passive.

- After getting three kills, you summon an ethereal Pyrana Prime and start going akimbo. This doubles your fire rate and your clip size.
- If left unattended for too long, aka if you stop feeding it heads, the ethereal Pyrana Prime disappears.

Okay, so far, so good. Now, here are the problems I have with this. The kill trigger (the time window during which you're supposed to score all three kills) is incredibly tight. I normally wouldn't mind, but Pyrana is an auto shotgun that comes with 12 bullets as a base clip size. I'm already having a hell of a time proccing the passive when there's a low concentration of enemies. When there are actually enough enemies for me to proc it, chances are I'm going to empty my clip before I get my kills. The reload time is more than enough for the kill trigger to close.

And when I do proc that passive, either because I was on a low level mission where everything dies in milliseconds or because I got lucky with my crits, it doesn't stay for long. I haven't actually taken a timer of how long the ethereal Pyrana stays. But based on my wonky time notion, I'm going to approximate to 6 or 7 seconds if left unattended. Hell, even in Simulacrum, I haven't been able to test Pyrana Prime extensively enough to know if, and if so under what conditions, does the passive refresh.

My point is that as much as I love the concept of Pyrana Prime, some technical difficulties make it really impractical to use. I think a slight increase in the kill trigger and/or buff duration would not hurt this weapon.
 

Thoughts, anyone ?

[Rhundis]

From my experiences with the weapon, it seems that as long as you continue to complete the initial trigger (3 kills in rapid succession) it will keep resetting the duration of the ethereal Pyrana. It does not add to the duration, merely resets it. 

I do have to agree with you on how small the proc window is. It would be better if they increased it by 1 or 2 seconds. The duration for the ethereal pyrana though is good. 

[Koldraxon-732]

There's also apparently a reload bug related to this weapon. I haven't gotten it yet because I'm waiting for the plat prices for them to dive down or haven't gotten the relics to get the parts to build it.

Based on this I would like the weapon to have an 'extra procs = significantly more duration' (meaning each stack, once the timer drains, resets down one until all the stacks deplete, allowing the weapon to operate in it's enhanced state almost indefinitely).

[(XBOX)Godlike13]

Punch Through.

[Mara]

8 hours ago, (XB1)Godlike13 said:

Punch Through.

That actually doesn't change anything, realistically speaking. Oh, sure, you might actually get the passive to proc in simulacrum, because your targets are neatly lined up and won't move an inch. In a real situation ? Not so much. Your targets will move, relocate themselves at all times. What you were firing on will change places. Your targets won't be aligned anymore. Punch Through is not a fix to this. It still makes it very inconsistent. 

The kill trigger is way too short, and the clip size too small to actually work on. Punch Through or not ? Doesn't change anything. If anything, Punch Through could actually be detrimental to Pyrana Prime's passive. You waste an entire mod slot on a stat that doesn't add any damage, on a weapon with a really small clip where reloading is basically resetting your passive's trigger.

[Guest]

I think the weapon is fine.

Try using enemy radar/sense so you can plan your shots better.

And punch-through actually helps, mainly when enemies take cover.

Edited June 20, 2018 by Guest

[Mara]

23 minutes ago, (PS4)iQuedas said:

I think the weapon is fine.

Try using enemy radar/sense so you can plan your shots better.

And punch-through actually helps, mainly when enemies take cover.

1/ Now, if this were a weapon with the slightest amount of precision, I wouldn't find the "plan your shots" part ridiculous. But this is a shotgun. An automatic shotgun. It has fall-off, spread and piss poor accuracy. You do not "plan your shots". You shoot and pray for the best. Then again I notice that the two people who consider the weapon actually fine play on consoles, so the built-in bullet attractor in controller gameplay might actually make a difference.

2/ If you leave enemies time to take cover to begin with, the trigger of your passive is already busted. Like way busted. You don't even have three seconds to make all your kills. Two is already a stretch, given how if you reload right after killing two targets, killing a third one after reloading doesn't proc the passive. 

Edited June 20, 2018 by Mara

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, Mara said:

1/ Now, if this were a weapon with the slightest amount of precision, I wouldn't find the "plan your shots" part ridiculous. But this is a shotgun. An automatic shotgun. It has fall-off, spread and piss poor accuracy. You do not "plan your shots". You shoot and pray for the best. Then again I notice that the two people who consider the weapon actually fine play on consoles, so the built-in bullet attractor in controller gameplay might actually make a difference.

2/ If you leave enemies time to take cover to begin with, the trigger of your passive is already busted. Like way busted. You don't even have three seconds to make all your kills. Two is already a stretch, given how if you reload right after killing two targets, killing a third one after reloading doesn't proc the passive. 

1/ Shoot and pray? Just because this is an automatic gun, doesn't mean you HAVE to hold the fire button for each enemy you encounter.
1~2 shots is normally enough to deal with common enemies. I'm not sure about the bullet attractor thing because I always turn "Aim assist" off when I play.
 

2/ I don't give them time to take cover. When I enter a room, enemies are scattered around, so I have a very short time to react based the information I got at first glance. If an enemy is behind a pillar/wall/cover, I can see it in my radar or in plain sight and just shoot them. Without punch-through, it would take me more time to do so.

[(PSN)NachoZissou]

Punch through is definitely key to solve this problem. If there aren't enough enemies to summon the second Pyrana then chances are you don't need it but when you are up to your neck in Grineer and you really need it then every shot will hit and kill multiple enemies. 

[(XBOX)Godlike13]

7 hours ago, Mara said:

That actually doesn't change anything, realistically speaking. Oh, sure, you might actually get the passive to proc in simulacrum, because your targets are neatly lined up and won't move an inch. In a real situation ? Not so much. Your targets will move, relocate themselves at all times. What you were firing on will change places. Your targets won't be aligned anymore. Punch Through is not a fix to this. It still makes it very inconsistent. 

The kill trigger is way too short, and the clip size too small to actually work on. Punch Through or not ? Doesn't change anything. If anything, Punch Through could actually be detrimental to Pyrana Prime's passive. You waste an entire mod slot on a stat that doesn't add any damage, on a weapon with a really small clip where reloading is basically resetting your passive's trigger.

I’m sorry, but this is just bad information. Enemies spawn, line up, and clump together all the time in real situations. Punch Through is actually more valuable on weapons with small clips, and not to mention automatics to help alleviate body blocking and over killing. Punch Through allows for the Pyrana to kill multiple enemies in less shots and in quicker succession. This is ideal for the Pyrana Prime. 

Edited June 20, 2018 by (XB1)Godlike13

[(PSN)J_Umbra]

with riven mods, the answer is allways "no" (it would be great but no XD)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Me0VK-IhAAM

Edited June 26, 2018 by (PS4)J_Umbra

[.Re-light.]

On 2018-06-20 at 3:13 PM, Mara said:

That actually doesn't change anything, realistically speaking. Oh, sure, you might actually get the passive to proc in simulacrum, because your targets are neatly lined up and won't move an inch. In a real situation ? Not so much. Your targets will move, relocate themselves at all times. What you were firing on will change places. Your targets won't be aligned anymore. Punch Through is not a fix to this. It still makes it very inconsistent. 

The kill trigger is way too short, and the clip size too small to actually work on. Punch Through or not ? Doesn't change anything. If anything, Punch Through could actually be detrimental to Pyrana Prime's passive. You waste an entire mod slot on a stat that doesn't add any damage, on a weapon with a really small clip where reloading is basically resetting your passive's trigger.

You gotta be kidding.. With PT lining up 2, 3 or more in any game ESPECIALLY if you ain't playing solo is piss easy.. PT is definitely a solution. Whether you choose to use it or not is up to you.. 

[(PSN)xX-GunHound-Xx]

On 2018-06-26 at 4:29 PM, .Re-light. said:

You gotta be kidding.. With PT lining up 2, 3 or more in any game ESPECIALLY if you ain't playing solo is piss easy.. PT is definitely a solution. Whether you choose to use it or not is up to you.. 

From what I've been reading so far, it sounds like PT seems like a mandatory mod. Although I get it's appeal, why do I have to use it to fix the problem that the OP is getting. A buff in its duration doesn't seem like to much to ask for. Now, I'm not asking for anything game breaking, only slightly more consistency. Or better yet, allow it's passive to pause during its reload. That would solve one of the things I've experienced anyway with me losing out on potential damage or keeping the perk activated especially when I was that close to finishing off a weak enemy  2 kills in only for me to reload and lose the buff.

[RealPandemonium]

It is better to make these kinds of feedback threads about unique mechanics after you have had a while to get a good feel for them.  Maybe in a few more weeks or months I could take feedback seriously, but consider how you'll feel about the weapon after you've mastered the rhythm of its passive and learned how to use it effectively, consistently.  Assuming you stick with it and try to learn.  Too many people underrate the importance of practicing your skills in this game.  

[(PSN)nikkokhresna]

Is ethereal only for pyrana prime?

[Autongnosis]

Le 28/06/2018 à 06:05, (PS4)xX-GunHound-Xx a dit :

From what I've been reading so far, it sounds like PT seems like a mandatory mod.

To be honest it's not even limited to the Pyrana. PT is basically a mandatory damage mod on anything but Eidolon and boss fights... Find me another mod that can make your damage and kill rate 2-3 times higher in one slot... If you don't only play solo in low spawn missions (like spy) it's almost harded to not find two targets lined up than it is to find then... 

[(XBOX)Sneak Attack 65]

You can try pairing it up with Harrow. He makes triggering the effect easy since he can boost its fire rate, reload speed, and crit chance for quick kills with little down time. 

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

Which of Mesa's passives does it benefit from? Faster reload or faster fire rate? Or does it just depend on if it's double hand or single hand at the time...

[Paradoxbomb]

According to the Wiki, the duration on the ethereal Pyrana can't be refreshed while it's already wielded, so part of me wonders if it would be considered too OP for the dual Pyrana's too gain an endless clip for the duration (still consuming ammo from your reserves mind you, just without the need to reload) since it feels like a good portion of the buff always ends up being wasted on reloading the Pyranas, even with the doubled clip. So that the player still has to reload eventually, once the ethereal Pyrana dissipates the real Pyrana's clip could be restored to whatever was left in it prior to activating the buff.

But I digress, as it stands I still enjoy the Pyrana Prime for what it is (or rather, what they are). The Vanilla Pyrana is already a beast of a sidearm and the Prime version sacrifices a negligible amount of damage for improved utility and the ability to double it's damage output if you use it proficiently, and personally I haven't had much trouble downing three targets in a clip until absurdly high enemy levels, so I think the buff activation requirement and duration is fair as is (besides, +magazine and punch-through mods do help better your odds). The only thing I do want (aside from the aforementioned endless clip, but that's not a necessity) is a UI indicator to keep track of how much time is remaining on the second Pyrana's duration.

Edited July 1, 2018 by Paradoxbomb

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

My feeling is that too much attention is being paid to balance. Unless they are planning to do some major changes to enemy scaling, balance isn't an issue, everything uniformly wrecks the low level mods, and unless you have some pretty specific mods you're not going to be able to manage past a certain level no matter the weapon you're using. 

You can have balance, or you can have fun. Too many live games have tried to take the "balance" route, and it usually follows with the game collapsing in on it's self. Destiny. Division, any host of mmos, once you stop saying "is it fun" and start saying "but is it balanced", players start leaving the game. The division especially found this out the hard way when they started the game fearing getting their weapon balancing wrong, and the game's live aspect was DOA because you had to shoot targets in hoodies 20 times in the head with a sniper rifle to kill them. Destiny similarly has made the mistake of choosing balance over fun, which has lead to weak "power" game elements, and weak weapons which are largely ambiguous, you can pick up any precision auto rifle and it's the same as any other precision auto rifle. 

If Warframe decides to go the route of balance, and I say this knowing people have been predicting the death of Warframe for years, but it will eventually cause a significant decline...If they're going to choose balance, then they need to entirely rebuild everything, the melee system, the primary system, the secondary system, the mod system, the enemy scaling, they literally need to throw out all their core physics and start over entirely. That's the only way they will ever create balance. And that would probably be the death of the game overnight. Now if they ever make a sequel to the game, that would be a good place to start with a whole newly imagined system.... But warframe 2 just doesn't "Feel" right....

[Autongnosis]

Sequels to live service games are generally a terrible idea. 

On the topic, i personally found that the only qualm about the ghost gun mechanic is that there is no indicator for it, like there is for Zenistar disk, Lesion's passive etc. 

To be honest as far as the mechanic goes i find it the best one out of the conditional boosts for ranged weapons (for reference: Dual Toxocist, Knell and Pyrana Prime), and it's very nice to play with tnem because of the very peculiar battle rythm you have. 9/10, would become 10 with a UI indicator (for me). 

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

I don't disagree to spin off or sequels of live games... Still I feel if they were less worried about if letting the perk stay active until you run out of things to kill being overpowered, There are secondary weapons, both single and dual handed, that aren't even primed, and are signficantly better than this weapon. I like it because it looks neat and has a fun concept, but I have plenty of weapons that are better than it, it being a little it overpowered is better than being a briefly interesting novelty that is quickly forgotten

[Autongnosis]

Il y a 16 heures, (PS4)Echo_X a dit :

I like it because it looks neat and has a fun concept, but I have plenty of weapons that are better than it, it being a little it overpowered is better than being a briefly interesting novelty that is quickly forgotten

Well, it depends to be honest. If the enemy has armour then ye, there are better secondaries, but if it hasn't got any (or it's been stripped) then you'd be hard pressed to find something that kills faster. On a conservative build with punchthrough it goes up to a 270k burst unboosted... That's really hard to top, actually it's the highest if memory serves.

And it has a really high Riven disposition too. My own setup (arcane Avenger set, adarza kavat, an excellent Riben on Oberon for armour strip) flictuates between 790k and 1.2mln burst. That hits REALLY hard. 

It's about bringing the right tools for the job.

Edited July 3, 2018 by Autongnosis

[(PSN)jbullet1988]

Look my pyrana has over 8000 slash. It tears threw enemys like butter. N im talking levels 80 to 100. Heavy gunners 1 shot.. idk how u guys r moddong your wepon but mine is my 3rd most powerful wepon.  This is without thw riven i have for it.  I have no issues with the 3second kills lol. But to each there own