Warframe's Future: Competitive PvP and PvE

[Zurnar]

This game needs 2 things, Competitive PvP and Competitive PvE. Right now the game is entirely about farming, though there is nothing inherently wrong with that, the game needs something competitive to make all the farming worth it. With the addition of difficult endgame content, you have added purpose of all the hundreds or thousands of hours of farming which Warframe is somewhat lacking in right now. Interesting competitive play can lead to Warframe becoming more popular as a game, and more popular to watch on twitch and youtube since there will be something truly entertaining to watch. Depending on how popular such competitive systems will be, and how they are implemented, Warframe can have official tournaments based on this content making the game yet again more popular to play and media wise. 

My suggestion for PvP is to create a ranked ladder system in the Conclave. That alone would push tons of people into playing PvP, which currently has a very limited number of people playing it. PvP in general should reward endo, credits, and rare resources in order to provide a reason to play PvP. All 3 of those things i hate farming and currently (except for credits in the index) has no clear or obvious way of farming them. If you want endo, there are ways of obtaining it, but it isn't super obvious where the best place it is to get endo, or where it is best to get some rare resources like Orokin cells. By giving PvP the ability to drop rare resources (at a higher rate than you can farm them now) and some credits and endo, you can get quite a bit of the Warframe population to keep playing just for PvP. PvP players can either play as casuals for the credits, endo, and resources, or as true PvP diehards that want to be the best (and possibly for even more credits, endo, and resources than the casual mode).

As for PvE, DE has removed raids from the game somewhat recently, making me suspect that they have something in mind for them. If they didn't have something in mind for raids, there would be little to no purpose in removing them, or a reason that i don't understand or haven't thought of. Sanctuary Onslaught really pleased me when it come out, but i quickly realized that it didn't quite live up to the standards i thought it would. Currently, i just use the onslaughts to farm affinity and focus, and like the majority of players, never go past wave 8. Like my PvP idea, make Sanctuary Onslaught competitive. Right now, there is a leaderboard for Onslaught, but it is only accessible through Simaris, and is extremely limited on how many places it shows you, and details on how far people made it. The solution is to make the leaderboard accessible easily through the codex which is right next to where you are when you login, and have the leaderboard go to about 1000 places or so (additionally you can show what percentile you place in if you aren't top 1000 or whatever the number would be). DE could also separate the leaderboard based on the number of people in the squad during the onslaught run (for example there would be a solo leaderboard, a duo leaderboard, a 3 person leaderboard, and finally a full squad leaderboard). Leaderboard positions won't be enough to make people want to be more competitive and want to go higher in onslaught. I suggest making onslaught drop endo and credits (and maybe even resources) throughout. On top of what i just said, you can then implement bonuses for going beyond wave 8, such as a 'X'% bonus to credit, endo, and resource drops similar to how void fissures work on endless missions. This bonus would theoretically keep getting bigger and bigger every 8 waves. Another thought would be to have sanctuary drop additional relics per rotation after wave 8. For example for the first 8 waves it is 1 relic per rotation (same as it is right now), but after wave 8 drop 2 relics per rotation, and keep adding 1 relic per rotation per 8 waves. The issue i see about this idea is that relics aren't the only things that drop out of onslaught. To address this, you can make it so only relics drop at each rotation after wave 8 to make this proposed system work.

These changes alone would give veteran players plenty of reasons to keep playing the game, and keep getting even more powerful. Because of the fact that the veteran players will be doing these kind of things, the newer players will be encountering less veteran players ruining the fun of some of their missions by making them have nothing to do because some 3000+ hour veteran cleared the mission before the newer players even figured out what tileset they are on. Overall everything i just said will add a ton of new things for longtime veteran players, while improving the process of the early game for newer players by making it less likely for new players to encounter veteran players in easy missions. I sure hope that what i have just said becomes reality at some point (or at least some version of it), because currently conclave is dead, and sanctuary onslaught just serves as a way to get XP and relics after you get all the non-relic items out of it. As a player with over 1200 hours and having obtained nearly all of the prime frames, weapons, and sentinels, I really hope i can see some interesting competitive gameplay come out of this game.

[Atekron]

it's not LoL or Fortnite, most players here are looking for fun, "casuals" if you will

I can see some promises of competitive PvE, but PvP is "dead on arrival"

 

 

[bad4youLT]

I dont play warframe for PVP or competative action , Im here for some jolly cooperation and frienddly non toxic comunity is plus to it

[Gorylas]

lol.. NO.. anything competitive is bane of community.. pure cancer.. go play fortnite

[Gabbynaru]

This game doesn't "NEED" any of those, it's been doing just fine for the past 4+ years without them. In fact, most of us don't exactly like PvP or competition, we're here to slaughter thousands and have a great time doing so. You need those, and if this game doesn't cater to your needs, well, there are many, many other opportunities for you out there.

[(XBOX)calvina]

When competition is mentioned, you don't need to loook further than on how Overwatch and Leage of Legends turned out in regards to thier communities.

I don't want the warframe community to deteriorate to that, so I'll have to pass on competition. (I wish the event leaderboards were back though)

 

Edited June 20, 2018 by (XB1)calvina

[BiancaRoughfin]

19 minutes ago, D3ATHM8K3R said:

This game needs 2 things, Competitive PvP

Stopped reading here.

A big NO! to this.

Warframe is PVE focused and lets keep it that way.

[Sean]

10 minutes ago, D3ATHM8K3R said:

This game needs 2 things, Competitive PvP and Competitive PvE.

"Warframe" and "PvP" don't mix and only a very small portion of the playerbase even bothers with it, so "need" is nowhere near the right word.

 

Quote

Right now the game is entirely about farming, though there is nothing inherently wrong with that, the game needs something competitive to make all the farming worth it. With the addition of difficult endgame content, you have added purpose of all the hundreds or thousands of hours of farming which Warframe is somewhat lacking in right now. Interesting competitive play can lead to Warframe becoming more popular as a game, and more popular to watch on twitch and youtube since there will be something truly entertaining to watch. Depending on how popular such competitive systems will be, and how they are implemented, Warframe can have official tournaments based on this content making the game yet again more popular to play and media wise. 

 

Believe you're thinking of leaderboards for PvE... which DE doesn't like all that much when it came to events. They did add leaderboards for Onslaught, but some mistakes with that game mode severely impacted its longevity beyond a quick run to get something only obtainable in it.
 

Quote

My suggestion for PvP is to create a ranked ladder system in the Conclave. That alone would push tons of people into playing PvP, which currently has a very limited number of people playing it. PvP in general should reward endo, credits, and rare resources in order to provide a reason to play PvP. All 3 of those things i hate farming and currently (except for credits in the index) has no clear or obvious way of farming them. If you want endo, there are ways of obtaining it, but it isn't super obvious where the best place it is to get endo, or where it is best to get some rare resources like Orokin cells. By giving PvP the ability to drop rare resources (at a higher rate than you can farm them now) and some credits and endo, you can get quite a bit of the Warframe population to keep playing just for PvP. PvP players can either play as casuals for the credits, endo, and resources, or as true PvP diehards that want to be the best (and possibly for even more credits, endo, and resources than the casual mode).

 

Since most players already don't care about PvP, this wouldn't do anything, and actually may further cement their dislike for the mode.

 

Quote

As for PvE, DE has removed raids from the game somewhat recently, making me suspect that they have something in mind for them. If they didn't have something in mind for raids, there would be little to no purpose in removing them, or a reason that i don't understand or haven't thought of.

They cited that all the raids were buggy (despite it only really being JV) and them not wanting to "waste" time fixing them (yet they're fine with wasting time on Frame Fighters and Peculiar Mods). Don't expect them to return anytime soon or even as "raids", they'll most likely just slap the name of "Trials" on something new. Remember, Dark Sectors was also removed ages ago and still has never returned despite assurances.

 

Quote

Sanctuary Onslaught really pleased me when it come out, but i quickly realized that it didn't quite live up to the standards i thought it would. Currently, i just use the onslaughts to farm affinity and focus, and like the majority of players, never go past wave 8. Like my PvP idea, make Sanctuary Onslaught competitive. Right now, there is a leaderboard for Onslaught, but it is only accessible through Simaris, and is extremely limited on how many places it shows you, and details on how far people made it.

 

Been a while since I looked at the leaderboards (I personally don't care about them), but you can view leaderboards from the menus, did they not add Onslaught to that list?

 

Quote

The solution is to make the leaderboard accessible easily through the codex which is right next to where you are when you login, and have the leaderboard go to about 1000 places or so (additionally you can show what percentile you place in if you aren't top 1000 or whatever the number would be). DE could also separate the leaderboard based on the number of people in the squad during the onslaught run (for example there would be a solo leaderboard, a duo leaderboard, a 3 person leaderboard, and finally a full squad leaderboard). Leaderboard positions won't be enough to make people want to be more competitive and want to go higher in onslaught. I suggest making onslaught drop endo and credits (and maybe even resources) throughout. On top of what i just said, you can then implement bonuses for going beyond wave 8, such as a 'X'% bonus to credit, endo, and resource drops similar to how void fissures work on endless missions. This bonus would theoretically keep getting bigger and bigger every 8 waves. Another thought would be to have sanctuary drop additional relics per rotation after wave 8. For example for the first 8 waves it is 1 relic per rotation (same as it is right now), but after wave 8 drop 2 relics per rotation, and keep adding 1 relic per rotation per 8 waves. The issue i see about this idea is that relics aren't the only things that drop out of onslaught. To address this, you can make it so only relics drop at each rotation after wave 8 to make this proposed system work.

People have been wanting a reason to push beyond a full rotation for a while now and DE knows about that, but simply don't care.

 

 

Quote

These changes alone would give veteran players plenty of reasons to keep playing the game, and keep getting even more powerful. Because of the fact that the veteran players will be doing these kind of things, the newer players will be encountering less veteran players ruining the fun of some of their missions by making them have nothing to do because some 3000+ hour veteran cleared the mission before the newer players even figured out what tileset they are on. Overall everything i just said will add a ton of new things for longtime veteran players, while improving the process of the early game for newer players by making it less likely for new players to encounter veteran players in easy missions. I sure hope that what i have just said becomes reality at some point (or at least some version of it), because currently conclave is dead, and sanctuary onslaught just serves as a way to get XP and relics after you get all the non-relic items out of it. As a player with over 1200 hours and having obtained nearly all of the prime frames, weapons, and sentinels, I really hope i can see some interesting competitive gameplay come out of this game.

PvP is too small of a playerbase and it won't really matter what DE does to the mode, I'd be among those that would continue to skip PvP.

Would agree on adding greater rewards beyond a full rotation and that would be something most veterans (like myself) would like, but DE has shown no inclination, and in fact quite the opposite, of having a "reason" to push beyond AABC.

[Tricky5hift]

As you can probably see, the game has been doin just fine without competitive anything.

At the end of the day, people just want to get cool equipment and kill **** without making a huge fuss over it.

Edited June 20, 2018 by Tricky5hift

[Iludra]

This game needs 1 thing, and it's neither of what you list. What Warframe truly needs is actual co-op. 

[NullSaint]

This game need competitive PvP like a fish needs a bicycle. There is already PvP in the game and no one plays it because no one wants to.

[-Temp0-]

Цитата

This game needs 2 things, Competitive PvP and Competitive PvE.

No fam it doesn't. There's s***tons of those kind of games, you're free to play all 1000500 identical clones starting from Destiny and all the way thought to the Fortnite.

The only thing that game needs in content.The most effing beatiful thing about it was 3 latest quests but the time each took to develop makes me go nuts persoanlly.

[Magicfingers]

the only thing warframe "needs" is less people like you telling us what it needs

[paul5473]

45 minutes ago, D3ATHM8K3R said:

This game needs 2 things, Competitive PvP and Competitive PvE. Right now the game is entirely about farming, though there is nothing inherently wrong with that, the game needs something competitive to make all the farming worth it. With the addition of difficult endgame content, you have added purpose of all the hundreds or thousands of hours of farming which Warframe is somewhat lacking in right now. Interesting competitive play can lead to Warframe becoming more popular as a game, and more popular to watch on twitch and youtube since there will be something truly entertaining to watch. Depending on how popular such competitive systems will be, and how they are implemented, Warframe can have official tournaments based on this content making the game yet again more popular to play and media wise. 

My suggestion for PvP is to create a ranked ladder system in the Conclave. That alone would push tons of people into playing PvP, which currently has a very limited number of people playing it. PvP in general should reward endo, credits, and rare resources in order to provide a reason to play PvP. All 3 of those things i hate farming and currently (except for credits in the index) has no clear or obvious way of farming them. If you want endo, there are ways of obtaining it, but it isn't super obvious where the best place it is to get endo, or where it is best to get some rare resources like Orokin cells. By giving PvP the ability to drop rare resources (at a higher rate than you can farm them now) and some credits and endo, you can get quite a bit of the Warframe population to keep playing just for PvP. PvP players can either play as casuals for the credits, endo, and resources, or as true PvP diehards that want to be the best (and possibly for even more credits, endo, and resources than the casual mode).

As for PvE, DE has removed raids from the game somewhat recently, making me suspect that they have something in mind for them. If they didn't have something in mind for raids, there would be little to no purpose in removing them, or a reason that i don't understand or haven't thought of. Sanctuary Onslaught really pleased me when it come out, but i quickly realized that it didn't quite live up to the standards i thought it would. Currently, i just use the onslaughts to farm affinity and focus, and like the majority of players, never go past wave 8. Like my PvP idea, make Sanctuary Onslaught competitive. Right now, there is a leaderboard for Onslaught, but it is only accessible through Simaris, and is extremely limited on how many places it shows you, and details on how far people made it. The solution is to make the leaderboard accessible easily through the codex which is right next to where you are when you login, and have the leaderboard go to about 1000 places or so (additionally you can show what percentile you place in if you aren't top 1000 or whatever the number would be). DE could also separate the leaderboard based on the number of people in the squad during the onslaught run (for example there would be a solo leaderboard, a duo leaderboard, a 3 person leaderboard, and finally a full squad leaderboard). Leaderboard positions won't be enough to make people want to be more competitive and want to go higher in onslaught. I suggest making onslaught drop endo and credits (and maybe even resources) throughout. On top of what i just said, you can then implement bonuses for going beyond wave 8, such as a 'X'% bonus to credit, endo, and resource drops similar to how void fissures work on endless missions. This bonus would theoretically keep getting bigger and bigger every 8 waves. Another thought would be to have sanctuary drop additional relics per rotation after wave 8. For example for the first 8 waves it is 1 relic per rotation (same as it is right now), but after wave 8 drop 2 relics per rotation, and keep adding 1 relic per rotation per 8 waves. The issue i see about this idea is that relics aren't the only things that drop out of onslaught. To address this, you can make it so only relics drop at each rotation after wave 8 to make this proposed system work.

These changes alone would give veteran players plenty of reasons to keep playing the game, and keep getting even more powerful. Because of the fact that the veteran players will be doing these kind of things, the newer players will be encountering less veteran players ruining the fun of some of their missions by making them have nothing to do because some 3000+ hour veteran cleared the mission before the newer players even figured out what tileset they are on. Overall everything i just said will add a ton of new things for longtime veteran players, while improving the process of the early game for newer players by making it less likely for new players to encounter veteran players in easy missions. I sure hope that what i have just said becomes reality at some point (or at least some version of it), because currently conclave is dead, and sanctuary onslaught just serves as a way to get XP and relics after you get all the non-relic items out of it. As a player with over 1200 hours and having obtained nearly all of the prime frames, weapons, and sentinels, I really hope i can see some interesting competitive gameplay come out of this game.

If you want competitive PvP play lunaro then come back and see why no one wants this in warframe 

[Falconer777]

If the game had a PvP with a slightly different mechanics, not such a "lightning fast", I think that this would lead to its greater popularity. And ultimately, to the greater popularity of the game.

I do not quite understand why here at the forum many people are so vehemently opposed to PvP in principle 🙂  It does not affect the amateurs of PVE in any way. For example, as in GW2 - these modes do not interfere with each other at all, but make the game as a whole more saturated and multivariate.

P.S. In my humble opinion, the game does not really have a clear endgame. Some serious goal.

I really liked the quest "Sacrifice", like all previous quests, but I noticed that after him it became boring in the game. It's like after the holidays you go back to work days. The game should not be working days, it's enough in real life))

Edited June 20, 2018 by Falconer777

[HeartPurity]

If i really want some hardcore PVP, I wont be playing this game, Rainbow six siege, BF 1 or fortnite or PUBG are PVP focused. The selling point of Warframe is casual playstyle PVE & rich character customization.

[Atekron]

7 minutes ago, Falconer777 said:

I do not quite understand why here at the forum many people are so vehemently opposed to PvP in principle

PvP = toxicity

time spend on PvP = less PvE content (which is hard to imagine cos this year was very scarce on content so far)

and people don't like when exclusive rewords tied to PvP mode, DE did try it - did not go well

[Falconer777]

5 минут назад, Atekron сказал:

PvP = токсичность

тратить время на PvP = меньше содержания PvE (чего трудно представить, потому что в этом году на контент было очень мало)

и людям не нравится, когда эксклюзивные перевязки привязаны к PvP-режиму, DE действительно пробовал - не пошел хорошо

I do not think that the development of a good PvP regime will require too much effort from DE, and all the more that it will affect the quality of PvE.

Toxicity - it is in PvP mode and will remain)) And in any way will not be affected to PvE-rs. Again, this is an example GW2.

[ShutUpJade]

I stopped reading after the first paragraph because, no Warframe doesn't 'need' any of this to become a more popular game, it just needs people to love it for what it is and spread the word on it.

My girlfriend watched me play it for hours on end and commented, "It looks like you're having fun." When I asked her to join me she said "I don't think it's the right type of game for me." To which I shrugged and continued playing.

About a month ago, I proposed that she join and she shrugged and said alright. And after completing Vor's Prize and doing the first set of missions on Mercury, she admitted that she had a blast and wondered why she hadn't played it for so long, it was really fun for her.

It wasn't because the game was competitive and had any type of presence on Twitch or YouTube because of that competitive scene, but because of just how dedicated I was to playing it and how I talked about it that got her intrigued in the game. How I talked about how polite people usually are in the game, even in Pugs. How I rarely talked about the same when we discussed Wow, or LoL, or DotA, or any other games I play with an online element.

With this game being more about cooperation than competitiveness, the talk turns to, how can players help one another, rather than how can I outperform other players? (There are always exceptions here and there, most recently being Limbo and the seemingly sudden influx of players using him to troll their squads instead of to help them, as he has very very useful skills for a team to take advantage of, but easily just as detrimental if the player is adamant on being a troll.)

The toxicness of other games where it's about your character versus other characters, even when doing cooperative content (DPS meters for raiding and dungeon content, I'm looking at you), is just not something I wish to see worm its way into this game where there's still a large amount of goodwill among the player base towards one another.

[(PSN)RhinoCharging00]

I have to agree that Warframe is not really a PvP game.

Yes, as it is, using a simplified description, a 3rd person shooter, it can be played in that way, but if the vast, overwhelming majority of players wanted and enjoyed PvP then the PvP game modes would have become the most popular part of the game.

This would have happened in a natural, organic way if that was what players were looking for.

I personally do not mind the PvP elements...they just don't happen to be why I personally log in, as I would rather be doing something else within the Warframe experience.

Perhaps many do not even know Warframe has a PvP area?

This is unlikely, but possible, I suppose.

When I want a PvP experience I find other games more suitable and enjoyable.

When I want to dice NPCs into thin slices and cartwheel through mid- air I play Warframe.

 

Edited June 20, 2018 by (PS4)RhinoCharging00
Spelling error

[Babellon]

Pvp Has been tried in WF and failed. Apparently it is not what WF needs. Every game doesn't have to have PVP or competitive play. PVP is a niche market and on the occasions it has been introduced here it has caused multiple problems with the game and with the community. I as an "amateur casual pve player" am not interested in being a "professional gamer" I want a place I can come, enjoy a game and have fun with people, I don't want to fight everyone all the time for everything. Apparently quite a majority of the playerbase feels the same way I do as evidenced by the fact that pvp does not play in the WF universe. 

There is a reason we have 3 modes labeled as pvp completely abandoned.

[Interlagos]

No. Warframe is lovable and amazing for being its own thing. Its gameplay doesnt need to gradually be homogenized with other game archetypes.

Introducing an esports scene into any game is basically the community equivalent of a Chernobyl meltdown. It's not like you can make Conclave esports friendly and those players will just play their mode in a bubble and leave the rest of us alone.

As far as competitive pve, Warframe is about personalization and variety. The tryhard metabois are abundant enough as it is, we don't need to exacerbate it.

I understand people wanting scaling rewards in endless missions, but the problem is that it quickly becomes the most efficient way to farm -insert thing- which makes people even less tolerant of non-meta choices. Every playerbase in every game gravitates towards the most time-efficient methods. The devs have specifically said they want the game to be playable in bite-sized chunks; with scaling endless rewards, a person who can only play 2 hours a day will feel like that time is best spent in a 2 hour survival or whatever. You can say, "well just because they can doesn't mean they have to" but that would be naive. People will gradually feel more obligated to do it, and ultimately, I believe it will create more problems than it solves.

[-Kittens-]

5 hours ago, D3ATHM8K3R said:

This game needs 2 things, Competitive PvP and Competitive PvE.

No.

 

[MystMan]

"That other game" does it fine.  It can work here in Warframe too.

We are not playing "That other game".  We are playing Warframe. Just because EA and Activision keep cloning the same games over and over, doesn't mean that is the norm which all games need to follow. We play Warframe BECAUSE it is not "That other game". Just because the pve becomes boring for some does not mean that feeling applies to everybody else. Plenty of people CAN and DO enjoy pve for years to come. The fact that Warframe has been in Steam top 10 most played games for so many years speaks volumes. (and the number is obviously higher when you count the stand-alone launchers and the consoles). It doesn't need more people (read: more headaches), it is doing very fine with the player base it has now. Heck, it is proof that you don't need pvp to make a very successful online game last for years, it has molded its own identity in the gaming market rather than carbon-copy the rest.

 

Warframe pvp community isn't toxic, it is among the nicest out there.

Do people who say this ever think to why this is?  It's nice BECAUSE the playerbase is so small and cozy in comparison to mainstream pvp games out there. The generic pvp gamer has never heard of Warframe, let alone that it even has a pvp mode.  As soon as that changes, they will all flood over here making the "nice conclave community" a spek on the radar among the toxic pvp flood that would invade the game.  
I remember pvp games during the dawn of the internet, most people didn't have it yet or was too expensive. Toxicity in pvp was sporadic.  As soon as internet became more accessible and faster and affordable, that changed. Oh how that changed. Finding normal mature people became a quest of looking for a unicorn. Sometimes it is better to remain small.

Conclave can grow if they added this or that.  It's easy!

No it's not. People love dropping that word.  Videogame design is really hard, time-consuming and expensive. The changes people want and ask for conclave are anything but easy to develop and implement on a 5-year old game. Be happy you have what there is now.  In the beginning there were only Dojo duels.  People wanted more.  They were given Rails Conflict. That bombed.  People wanted more.  They were given the conclave we have now. That is barely played. People still want more. 

Just. stop.  You were given the hand, then the arm now you want the leg too?  Unlike other games out there, DE was extremely generous giving you this much at all. Other devs would not have tried so many times (or at all) to please a subset of their player base. Enjoy conclave for that it currently is.

I like Archwing. A lot. But I have long ago accepted that it is hated by almost everybody and I agree that it isn't worth trying to fix and upgrade a failed mode. You won't see me making exclamations like "Make it like X-wing vs Freespace vs. Wing Commander vs. Tie Fighter vs. Chessmaster 9000!   That will surely bring it back to popularity because my power of wishful thinking said so!" 

 

Warframe is 5 years old.  If they couldn't make a good pvp mode in all this time, they're not going to make one in the next 5 years. Smart devs do not waste time on past content, they focus on future content.

 

[NezuHimeSama]

I think the people playing and supporting warframe now are playing and supporting warframe because they like the game, not because they're secretly hoping it'll turn into a totally different game.

#*!% PVP, #*!% competition, and #*!% "teh hardqore" bullS#&$.