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Saryn's Spores


sludgdge
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S8dp0xr.jpgSo to start out, I do like the Saryn Rework, she is my favorite and main frame to play. Having the molt how it is now along with the toxic lash is great, even miasma. I don't like these new spores. The damage build up is alright, I guess, but when it comes to the spores, they don't spread as quickly because of how fast enemies are dying, so then it just decays, and even if you can happen to hit another enemy with them, again, they'll just die out too quickly for them to stick. Maybe it's a bug, which I don't think it is, but it doesn't work too well. I find myself ignoring spores 90% of the time I'm using her, toxic lash is good enough, toxic lash isn't the only ability. Can we get the old spores back? They said it was a buff, but I only see a spore nerf.

Edited by sludgefest
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6 minutes ago, sludgefest said:

So to start out, I do like the Saryn Rework, she is my favorite and main frame to play. Having the molt how it is now along with the toxic lash is great, even miasma. I don't like these new spores. The damage build up is alright, I guess, but when it comes to the spores, they don't spread as quickly because of how fast enemies are dying, so then it just decays, and even if you can happen to hit another enemy with them, again, they'll just die out too quickly for them to stick. Maybe it's a bug, which I don't think it is, but it doesn't work too well. I find myself ignoring spores 90% of the time I'm using her, toxic lash is good enough, toxic lash isn't the only ability. Can we get the old spores back? They said it was a buff, but I only see a spore nerf.

Whoa! I have no idea what game you are playing. Spores are amazing! I out kill everyone, every time I go in ESO or Sorties or heck any and everywhere. I do wish that enemies that died to the spores would still spread the spores but, that may be a bit OP. I do see some inconsistencies in spores though, enemies that I KNOW are in range not being effected from time to time but, that would be my only complaint about current Saryn.  

May I ask what content you normal take Saryn to?

Also, mind sharing your build? Maybe there is/isn't something there that could lead to you enjoying her more. 

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16 minutes ago, sludgefest said:

So to start out, I do like the Saryn Rework, she is my favorite and main frame to play. Having the molt how it is now along with the toxic lash is great, even miasma. I don't like these new spores. The damage build up is alright, I guess, but when it comes to the spores, they don't spread as quickly because of how fast enemies are dying, so then it just decays, and even if you can happen to hit another enemy with them, again, they'll just die out too quickly for them to stick. Maybe it's a bug, which I don't think it is, but it doesn't work too well. I find myself ignoring spores 90% of the time I'm using her, toxic lash is good enough, toxic lash isn't the only ability. Can we get the old spores back? They said it was a buff, but I only see a spore nerf.

 

1 minute ago, (XB1)Thang Hung said:

Whoa! I have no idea what game you are playing. Spores are amazing! I out kill everyone, every time I go in ESO or Sorties or heck any and everywhere. I do wish that enemies that died to the spores would still spread the spores but, that may be a bit OP. I do see some inconsistencies in spores though, enemies that I KNOW are in range not being effected from time to time but, that would be my only complaint about current Saryn.  

May I ask what content you normal take Saryn to?

Also, mind sharing your build? Maybe there is/isn't something there that could lead to you enjoying her more. 

I don't think that is the issue; The spore mechanics are clunky. I don't think his problem is not killing, but killing too quickly for efficiency, which could be due to level content, Map-Layouts, or build.

My recommendation: Forget spores for anything below 55-ish. Take a max-range build with lower powerstrength (don't worry, you'll still have insane DPS, and you will still have better than average Corrosive Procs). If you want best spreads, do spores, then Miasma once or twice, and then melee or Ignis/Amprex without lash (or with it, whichever floats).

Over-extended will definitely help with a lot of the issues where spores kills quicker than you can react.

 

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you're basically supposed to sit in a corner with an Ignis + Toxic Lash to spread it constantly while you watch the Ability play the game for you.
and max or almost max Range is now mandatory.

Edited by taiiat
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1 hour ago, taiiat said:

you're basically supposed to sit in a corner with an Ignis + Toxic Lash to spread it constantly while you watch the Ability play the game for you.
and max or almost max Range is now mandatory.

That is not how I go about doing it. I do use Ignis + Toxic Lash but, once I get my spores going I look for the furthest set of ticking numbers and go kill that guy. Then run the opposite direction and look for the furthest set of ticking numbers and kill that guy. Throw in a Miasma every here and there, rinse repeat and watch your efficiency stay at 100%.

I also do not use max range. I have my range at 190% and power strength at 185%. The build I came up with was from much trial and error and is what fits my play style the best. I think your style of "sit in a corner" and "use max range" seems pretty boring and exactly what the re-rework was trying to combat but, hey different strokes for different folks. 

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1 hour ago, SyBuhr said:

 

I don't think that is the issue; The spore mechanics are clunky. I don't think his problem is not killing, but killing too quickly for efficiency, which could be due to level content, Map-Layouts, or build.

My recommendation: Forget spores for anything below 55-ish. Take a max-range build with lower powerstrength (don't worry, you'll still have insane DPS, and you will still have better than average Corrosive Procs). If you want best spreads, do spores, then Miasma once or twice, and then melee or Ignis/Amprex without lash (or with it, whichever floats).

Over-extended will definitely help with a lot of the issues where spores kills quicker than you can react.

 

True. I do use a lower power strength build when playing lower level content. She is a bit too efficient at killing some times, not that I see that as a bad thing. Could it be that OP is just paying to much attention to the spore UI at the bottom of the screen? I too kind of felt a little underwhelmed by spores because I found it hard sometimes to get some big sexy number going on down there. Once I stopped paying attention to it I found I was enjoying myself much more, now the only number down there I pay attention to is the number of effected enemies, gives me a good indicator of when to use Miasma. 

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You don't need Spore damage to build up too high until high level enemies... at which point it builds up high enough to keep killspeed up on them.

Just because the number doesn't get big on low levels, doesn't mean that it isn't killing everything on the map; It's not getting big because it's killing everything on the map.  

Edited by RealPandemonium
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25 minutes ago, (XB1)Thang Hung said:

True. I do use a lower power strength build when playing lower level content. She is a bit too efficient at killing some times, not that I see that as a bad thing. Could it be that OP is just paying to much attention to the spore UI at the bottom of the screen? I too kind of felt a little underwhelmed by spores because I found it hard sometimes to get some big sexy number going on down there. Once I stopped paying attention to it I found I was enjoying myself much more, now the only number down there I pay attention to is the number of effected enemies, gives me a good indicator of when to use Miasma. 

Tbh, yeah, that is part of my problem. I see it like armor for Atlas. I do like that idea, just paying attention to the number. My problem is though is that sometimes I do like to sit in the corner, but thats only if im grinding for resources, which isn't a thing I do regularly, I find that boring and I like to jump around. I have a screenshot of my build and I'll probably edit it in the OP if I can. As for what I use it for, just about everything, because I like her DPS, I just want to incorporate spores more but it just doesn't seem as useful. I was just doing sorties and had the problem of them sticking on long enough because of it. My weapons are an Ignis Wraith/Lex Prime/Galatine Prime, with status builds. 

 

2 hours ago, SyBuhr said:

I don't think that is the issue; The spore mechanics are clunky. I don't think his problem is not killing, but killing too quickly for efficiency, which could be due to level content, Map-Layouts, or build.

My recommendation: Forget spores for anything below 55-ish. Take a max-range build with lower powerstrength (don't worry, you'll still have insane DPS, and you will still have better than average Corrosive Procs). If you want best spreads, do spores, then Miasma once or twice, and then melee or Ignis/Amprex without lash (or with it, whichever floats).

Over-extended will definitely help with a lot of the issues where spores kills quicker than you can react.

Yeah, I find them clunky, but I prefer the old clunky. I don't have over-extended, which I should probably look into. I'll post my build right now.

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46 minutes ago, sludgefest said:

Tbh, yeah, that is part of my problem. I see it like armor for Atlas. I do like that idea, just paying attention to the number. My problem is though is that sometimes I do like to sit in the corner, but thats only if im grinding for resources, which isn't a thing I do regularly, I find that boring and I like to jump around. I have a screenshot of my build and I'll probably edit it in the OP if I can. As for what I use it for, just about everything, because I like her DPS, I just want to incorporate spores more but it just doesn't seem as useful. I was just doing sorties and had the problem of them sticking on long enough because of it. My weapons are an Ignis Wraith/Lex Prime/Galatine Prime, with status builds. 

 

Yeah, I find them clunky, but I prefer the old clunky. I don't have over-extended, which I should probably look into. I'll post my build right now.

Looking at your build you do need some more range. I'm going to post my build below and I think you can try it without using any forma. Please give it a try, and if you would be kind enough to do so give me some feedback on it. I am loving it, curious to see what your opinion of it would be. 

Energy Siphon, Cunning Drift   (Corrosive Projection is a real waist here as Saryn is a walking CP)

Stretch, Augur Reach, Intensify, Transient Fortitude

Vitality, Regenerative Molt, (Primed) Continuity, Hunter Adrenaline (or Rage)

Regenerative Molt if you don't know is a augment mod that gives you healing over time whenever you use your Molt. If you choose to give this build a try you should switch out Vigor for Vitality as you actually want to take some damage to your health bar to give you energy form Hunter Adrenaline (or Rage). The way it works is if you are taking damage then you have energy, if you have energy then you can cast Molt (with augment) to regain health. This really helps with her survive ability. 

Switch your Intensify and Transient Fortitude around so TF is in the forma'd spot and level it up some more if you can. If you get into arcanes try Arcane Guardian on her, again just helps with survive ability for higher level content but is in no way required. Please feel free to message me if you have any questions on anything. It pains me to see you are not enjoying Saryn at the moment as she is BAE ❤️ to me. 

Oh and make sure you are using Viral on that Ignis. Everything's armor is going bye bye so no need for more corrosive. I'm running a Viral/Heat crit/status hybird on mine.

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53 minutes ago, (XB1)Thang Hung said:

Looking at your build you do need some more range. I'm going to post my build below and I think you can try it without using any forma. Please give it a try, and if you would be kind enough to do so give me some feedback on it. I am loving it, curious to see what your opinion of it would be. 

Energy Siphon, Cunning Drift   (Corrosive Projection is a real waist here as Saryn is a walking CP)

Stretch, Augur Reach, Intensify, Transient Fortitude

Vitality, Regenerative Molt, (Primed) Continuity, Hunter Adrenaline (or Rage)

Regenerative Molt if you don't know is a augment mod that gives you healing over time whenever you use your Molt. If you choose to give this build a try you should switch out Vigor for Vitality as you actually want to take some damage to your health bar to give you energy form Hunter Adrenaline (or Rage). The way it works is if you are taking damage then you have energy, if you have energy then you can cast Molt (with augment) to regain health. This really helps with her survive ability. 

Switch your Intensify and Transient Fortitude around so TF is in the forma'd spot and level it up some more if you can. If you get into arcanes try Arcane Guardian on her, again just helps with survive ability for higher level content but is in no way required. Please feel free to message me if you have any questions on anything. It pains me to see you are not enjoying Saryn at the moment as she is BAE ❤️ to me. 

Oh and make sure you are using Viral on that Ignis. Everything's armor is going bye bye so no need for more corrosive. I'm running a Viral/Heat crit/status hybird on mine.

Ayyy thanks dude! I think that's a great build tbh, I've looked at a few builds and kinda conglomerated them together, I need a few mods off that list then i'll give it a try. 

Energy Siphon would be nice actually, especially in Sanctuary. I like Corrosive Projection though well as you know, armour stripping, but yeah I guess it's not needed as much anymore. I'll check out getting some more range and make sure to message you.

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5 hours ago, (XB1)Thang Hung said:

I think your style of "sit in a corner" and "use max range" seems pretty boring and exactly what the re-rework was trying to combat

well, my playstyle was deleted. now Spores is an automated Ability, it's more AFK than it was before.

Saryn was very interactive and had a lot of deep Synergy before - the AFK Loadout people were grumbling about had the lowest effective AoE DPS of any way of using the Warframe, about equivalent to Thunderbolt on a Crossbow. only effective vs low Level Enemies, where all that matters is hitting them at all, because they only have a couple hundred Health so any Damage Kills them.

 

i don't want Saryn to be un-interactive and be mostly automated - but there isn't any Synergy between the Abilities anymore past always using the Abilities in one set in stone order, Spores and Toxic Lash are things to use constantly and not consider any strategy in utilizing, and Miasma is a really expensive Viral Status + making sure that those low Level Enemies nearby die one or two seconds faster.
Saryn was the most Synergistic and active Warframe in the game, but oh well.

Edited by taiiat
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3 hours ago, sludgefest said:

Ayyy thanks dude! I think that's a great build tbh, I've looked at a few builds and kinda conglomerated them together, I need a few mods off that list then i'll give it a try. 

Energy Siphon would be nice actually, especially in Sanctuary. I like Corrosive Projection though well as you know, armour stripping, but yeah I guess it's not needed as much anymore. I'll check out getting some more range and make sure to message you.

TBH, I'd fore-go the Power-strength, because your main DPS ability, Spores, will get ridiculous numbers later in the game anyways, even if the powerstrength is at 65 percent or so (like mine). I've found success using Stretch with Over-extended, which also helps spreading spores via miasma, as well as affecting more enemies with the viral debuff (lending itself better to team-oriented play, if you have another DPS in the squad).

I believe my build is something like 235% range, (overextended and stretch), 65% power strength (intensify), Regen. Molt, stream line, vitality and redirection, and coaction drift as the exilus slot. I personally take rejuvenation, which allows me to swap out armoured agility (which I usually take) for hunter's adrenaline for energy, but I rarely need it due to Zenurik Dash. This should provide loads of spores on all enemies, debuffing them with corrosive (don't worry, they will still proc that solidly), allowing me to CC and debuff with viral Miasma more reliably and spread better, while still being fairly competitive into Taveuni 1 1/2 hours in. It still falls off in the plains though, so don't expect it to be the best.

Alternatively, the other fellow mentioned a relatively higher strength build, which is nice on paper, but you'll run into a few issues of keeping up with the spores to spread them from time to time. It's really viable for higher end stuff though, but I prefer the extra range to provide debuffing, while being able to maintain the stacks longer.

Either-or, you'll still kill fairly quickly no matter which way you dice it, so just be aware of that.

Edited by SyBuhr
Wrong statistic; Adjusted appropriately.
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try this build

7j7Pyla.jpg

Don't mind the arcane, you can bring whatever you want. Range is most important, it let you clear more mobs in one combo cast(spore + miasma), making it less clunky. 

Hydron display

 

Edited by qscgg
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12 hours ago, SyBuhr said:

TBH, I'd fore-go the Power-strength, because your main DPS ability, Spores, will get ridiculous numbers later in the game anyways, even if the powerstrength is at 65 percent or so (like mine). I've found success using Stretch with Over-extended, which also helps spreading spores via miasma, as well as affecting more enemies with the viral debuff (lending itself better to team-oriented play, if you have another DPS in the squad).

I believe my build is something like 235% range, (overextended and stretch), 65% power strength (intensify), Regen. Molt, stream line, vitality and redirection, and coaction drift as the exilus slot. I personally take rejuvenation, which allows me to swap out armoured agility (which I usually take) for hunter's adrenaline for energy, but I rarely need it due to Zenurik Dash. This should provide loads of spores on all enemies, debuffing them with corrosive (don't worry, they will still proc that solidly), allowing me to CC and debuff with viral Miasma more reliably and spread better, while still being fairly competitive into Taveuni 1 1/2 hours in. It still falls off in the plains though, so don't expect it to be the best.

Alternatively, the other fellow mentioned a relatively higher strength build, which is nice on paper, but you'll run into a few issues of keeping up with the spores to spread them from time to time. It's really viable for higher end stuff though, but I prefer the extra range to provide debuffing, while being able to maintain the stacks longer.

Either-or, you'll still kill fairly quickly no matter which way you dice it, so just be aware of that.

TBH the build I shared is fine tuned (for me) for ESO. I do also use it in Sortie missions and things of that nature where enemy level is on the higher end of the spectrum. I also have a build that I believe is just swapping Auger Reach for Overextended. That build gives me 125 power strength and 250 range iirc. I am looking very forward to getting my hands on the Umbral mods as I think I can use my more range build and still have that 250 range and 165 power strength it my maths are correct and I think that losing 20 power strength for the +60 to range is going to put her in a perfect spot for me. 

Which of course brings me to, Saryn Umbra when?

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13 hours ago, taiiat said:

well, my playstyle was deleted. now Spores is an automated Ability, it's more AFK than it was before.

Saryn was very interactive and had a lot of deep Synergy before - the AFK Loadout people were grumbling about had the lowest effective AoE DPS of any way of using the Warframe, about equivalent to Thunderbolt on a Crossbow. only effective vs low Level Enemies, where all that matters is hitting them at all, because they only have a couple hundred Health so any Damage Kills them.

 

i don't want Saryn to be un-interactive and be mostly automated - but there isn't any Synergy between the Abilities anymore past always using the Abilities in one set in stone order, Spores and Toxic Lash are things to use constantly and not consider any strategy in utilizing, and Miasma is a really expensive Viral Status + making sure that those low Level Enemies nearby die one or two seconds faster.
Saryn was the most Synergistic and active Warframe in the game, but oh well.

I hope over time you come to like new Saryn more so than you do now. Judging by your avatar and your founders status I feel like you have been playing her for a long time and are pretty upset over the changes. I too played her quite a bit before the re-rework but, I actually like new Saryn better and have played very few missions as anybody but her. 

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12 hours ago, ganjou234 said:
  1. Get a Trinity
  2. Let the Trin use Well of Life on a Nox/Bombard/Gunner
  3. Keep the Nox/Bombard/Gunner locked in Well of life and dont kill it.
  4. Spread your spores as you please.

That doesn't always work if I can't gurantee a Trinity, but thanks I guess

 

12 hours ago, LIKE_A_PR3DAT0R said:

time to bring back some "old" screenshot

20180531080452_1.jpg

yeah pls , still call stuff nerf because you don't know how to build/use 

the new saryn is op , have problem with spore? do the old press 4 to win and problem solved :residentsleeper

I mean I guess, I may not have some pseudo min max knowledge or anything, but I'm not looking for that. I think I have a fair bit of knowledge, atleast general aspects. Thanks for contributing, you didn't really help at all.

12 hours ago, qscgg said:

try this build

7j7Pyla.jpg

Don't mind the arcane, you can bring whatever you want. Range is most important, it let you clear more mobs in one combo cast(spore + miasma), making it less clunky. 

 

I'll look into it, I guess a important mod i'm missing is overextended. Thanks!

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12 hours ago, LIKE_A_PR3DAT0R said:

time to bring back some "old" screenshot

\yeah pls , still call stuff nerf because you don't know how to build/use 

the new saryn is op , have problem with spore? do the old press 4 to win and problem solved :residentsleeper

This is totally a great comment, that definitely helps the OP.

You should probably learn how to be a touch constructive; If you looked at OP's original build, you'd have known that Spamming 4 (which is already frowned up) may not have worked, due to him not having a range build. Speaking of builds, you neglected to show yours, while stating kindly "Hey fellow Tenno, this is what I go with and it's yielded some decent results! Images relevant."

Instead, you completely freaked out over him stating how he felt it was nerf, which it is if you utilized spores as a Debuff tool during 2.0 (as you can no longer really do that now, as its focus is a DPS mechanism instead). It should also be noted you could hit 20k damage ticks in two seconds with the 2.0 spores, where-as now, you have to ramp that damage up (but it does guarantee the kill regardless).

13 hours ago, ganjou234 said:
  1. Get a Trinity
  2. Let the Trin use Well of Life on a Nox/Bombard/Gunner
  3. Keep the Nox/Bombard/Gunner locked in Well of life and dont kill it.
  4. Spread your spores as you please.

Not helpful in PUGs, as it relies on other players wanting to play a Support-Disabler role, which many in Warframe do not, as far as PUGs are concerned (As evidence by the sheer amount of DPS frames). Also, that sort of trick only works for Grineer/Corrupted missions, so you've limited OP to two factions, without presenting a solution for most factions. This is disregarding Nullifiers, which will be present in corrupted missions.

Again, that's not really helpful. I mean, the Trick itself was popularized by some youtuber, but people already had that sort of thought going once Molt-Towering was removed; The trick itself is good, but only if you are facing one of those two factions.

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32 minutes ago, SyBuhr said:

You should probably learn how to be a touch constructive

maybe ur all right , instead of help i instant shot, i was simply tired to see all people call this saryn a nerf so my bad , 

@sludgefest  apology 

ok so first of all , now the new saryn from my prespective need 200 range do spread well the spores , under 200 spore still work but is kinda hard , this is the build i use almost every day

20180621213546_1.jpg
this is my tank melee saryn , in combo with this i use a zaw with healing return , if i don't use that instead of primed continuity i use the augment for the molt but that is an off topic i think
but i can say that i spread the spore pretty well on extermination and survival mission
 
for a only spore i use this one
20180621214901_1.jpg
125 strength seems low but it's work fine in eso so i think u will not have problem on the other mission , instead of 280 range u can run with 250
 
to be honest maybe i can see why most people call this spore a nerf, is hard to keep up the spore on low lv enemy since u instant nuke all , let's say that spore now work well only on lv 50+ enemy 
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Max range has been a no-brainer on Saryn since her previous rework.  Lack of build diversity on new Saryn is disappointing, but if you're doing it wrong now you've probably been doing it wrong for a long time, anyway.  Never too late to learn.

Edited by RealPandemonium
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2 hours ago, RealPandemonium said:

Max range has been a no-brainer on Saryn since her previous rework.  Lack of build diversity on new Saryn is disappointing, but if you're doing it wrong now you've probably been doing it wrong for a long time, anyway.  Never too late to learn.

Sure, but if you read what I said, I don't like sitting in a corner, so I didnt worry about range. Maybe it's better to play her with range, but I liked getting up close and running around. I didn't realize there was only one way to build a frame, but before this "buff" I never really needed it, as that was pretty much my build originally. But yeah, I guess it isn't, if you would help.

@LIKE_A_PR3DAT0R I appreciate the apology, and thank you for the builds.

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10 hours ago, (XB1)Thang Hung said:

I hope over time you come to like new Saryn more so than you do now. Judging by your avatar and your founders status I feel like you have been playing her for a long time and are pretty upset over the changes. I too played her quite a bit before the re-rework but, I actually like new Saryn better and have played very few missions as anybody but her. 

i'm never going to enjoy being forced to AFK. it's not going to suddenly become less AFK by magic.

Abilities that are used just by pressing the button and no further thought, aren't something i'm ever going to get excited about. that deep Synergy is what makes Abilities really cool - Mag is now pretty much the only Warframe left with that trait though....

4 hours ago, RealPandemonium said:

Max range has been a no-brainer on Saryn since her previous rework.

it actually wasn't - Saryn 2015 was very effective with the amount of Range that was appropriate for your Mission - since if you transferred Toxin or Spores too early you'd have to wait for the cooldowns to be able to do it again correctly and so wasting some of the Damage you're trying to apply.

since when Enemies reach a point of relevant EHP, tickling them for a couple hundred DPS wasn't useful anymore and so you'd have to spread Spores + Toxin strategically to get it to deal high Damage.
so extreme Range was good for AFK'ing in a 20 Wave Defense Mission, not so much for Killing Heavies, Eximus, or just high Level Enemies in general.

 

extreme Range is fundamentally crucial now though, yes.

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Wait, currently most OP eso choice is not OP enough?  Did I read this right?

Dude... you gotta use range.  Everything dies.

Sadly DE appears to be moving away from build diversity in favor of pushing each frame into a box that is modded a certain way, and this is no more obvious than with the Umbra release.

That said, you can mod however you like, but if you want to be efficient there are certain things you kind of "have to" add now.  It's always sorta been that way with certain mandatory mods, but it seems to be getting worse over time.

 

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4 hours ago, sludgefest said:

Sure, but if you read what I said, I don't like sitting in a corner, so I didnt worry about range. Maybe it's better to play her with range, but I liked getting up close and running around. I didn't realize there was only one way to build a frame, but before this "buff" I never really needed it, as that was pretty much my build originally. But yeah, I guess it isn't, if you would help.

@LIKE_A_PR3DAT0R I appreciate the apology, and thank you for the builds.

 

2 hours ago, taiiat said:

it actually wasn't - Saryn 2015 was very effective with the amount of Range that was appropriate for your Mission - since if you transferred Toxin or Spores too early you'd have to wait for the cooldowns to be able to do it again correctly and so wasting some of the Damage you're trying to apply.

since when Enemies reach a point of relevant EHP, tickling them for a couple hundred DPS wasn't useful anymore and so you'd have to spread Spores + Toxin strategically to get it to deal high Damage.
so extreme Range was good for AFK'ing in a 20 Wave Defense Mission, not so much for Killing Heavies, Eximus, or just high Level Enemies in general.

 

extreme Range is fundamentally crucial now though, yes.

Range gave Miasma more coverage and ensured that everything on the map had its HP halved.  Seemed like an easy choice for me but maybe some builds like melee builds or facetanking builds had less use for it.  But when it came to squeezing the most out of powers, range was pretty damn good. 

The Lanka build was pretty niche, all said, and wasn't well-understood until more recently.  There was a lot of anti-synergy in Saryn's kit in this regard since stuff like Molt popping or bullet jumping while under the effect of Toxic Lash could spread some weak Toxin procs and make you unable to spread your big, weapon-based procs instead.  And even then you wanted high range to make those Lanka headshots count, otherwise you were only making a small AOE somewhat bigger.  

Edited by RealPandemonium
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