Excalibur rework ideas

[EpicBred]

I thought this would be a good time to think about an excalibur rework, since he might get the attention he needs with umbras release. You might say Excalibur is extremely good right now and doesnt need a rework, which is kind of true, but there is radial javelin which should simply not exist and furthermore the initial idea that he should be a melee centered frame that has to get close, which he currently isnt. Also, his exalted blade stance looks stupid. Anyway, rework ideas:

Slash Dash Changes:

Remove the short "stop" at the end of the dash, it kills momentum.

 

Radial Blind Change:

Let is choose if we want to use a finisher on an enemy or just wail away at him (like it worked before the old rework). id say standard melee attack button -> standard melee attack and interaction button (standard x) -> finisher. This isnt necessarely a radial blind change, but a general mechanic that should be added to every situation where an enemy is open to finishers.

 

Radial Javelin Replacement Idea Nr 1:

An aura with a very small radius (like 1.2 meters, still small with range mods) following Excalibur. Every enemy inside the aura gets:

a) its level reduced by a lot, maybe divide by 10 at base. 

b) Its faction specific defense completely removed (grineer: armor, corpus: shield, infested: idk, the only thing making them hard are all those special abilities they have, maybe just remove the effects of those)

Tell me if you prefer a or b.

When the enemy leaves the area the changes are reversed. Not sure if it should be duration based or have an energy drain that increases with every enemy inside the area, or JUST drain for each enemy thats inside. Should have no or a very short cast time. This is a way to make excalibur have to get close to deal his insane damage. I also dont think its overpowered because if the tiny range it has. The problem with this idea is that his damage might actually be a little unnecessarily insane.

Radial Javelin Replacement Idea Nr 2:

A small AoE (5 to 10 meters base) centered on Excalibur, that steals every enemies faction specific defense (grineer: armor, corpus: overshields, infested: overhealth? Stupid infested ...) for a duration. The stolen stats should be multiplied by something, but i have no idea what that multiplier should be. I also dont know how well that could be balanced with just one multiplier.

It could also be an aura like in idea Nr 1, stealing those stats from enemies only as long as they are inside the area.

This is another way to make excal work as melee frame, making him tanky. But im not sure if this fits him perfectly, since he should blind enemies anyway. My least favourite idea for radial javelin.

Radial Javelin Replacement Idea Nr 3:

An "exalted cloak". 100% damage reduction on everything that hits excal from behind (180°). pretty simple, but works. Should probably have a duration.

Radial Javelin Replacement Idea Nr 4:

A singularity like nidus larva, but centered on excalibur. Shouldnt have a limit of enemies it can effect like RJ. Radius as large as radial blinds. Enemies sucked in are stunned for at least 2 seconds, but not open to finishers.

Very useful and fitting for a melee and cc focused frame. I dont know what it would be that justifies this being a third ability unlike nidus larva, which is his second and has therefore a lower energy cost while also holding in enemies longer. You could either reduce the energy cost to 50, making it a second second ability for excal, or add an extra effect, like a debuff to the enemies affected.

 

Exalted Blade Change:

Remove the blade waves entirely. Make a completely new stance (or just edit the old one and at least replace the standard button mash combo), where each combo has its use.

Button mash combo: standard balanced combo

Pause combo: focused on a small area in front of you / single target damage (high damage multiplier)

Block combo: Wide sweeping attacks covering most of the area around you (small/negative damage multiplier)

Hold combo: Slow, but shoots blade waves that causes a guaranteed knockdown. Blade waves damage doesnt decay.

Slide attack: singularity instead of the weaker blind.

You could make the blade extend on each strike, making it longer while attack than it is while just holding it in your hand.

Enable us to use acolyte mods and all that on exalted blade.

 

Thanks for reading! My main wish was to give ideas for replacing radial javelin, the exalted blade stuff isnt actually that important, those are just ideas thrown out into the world. You could also just keep Exalted blade as it is, and have the aura from "RJ Idea Nr 1" not be circular, but cover the same ground as nidus 1. There are lots of possibilities. Tell me what you think about the ideas, which ones you like the most and what you would change about them.

Edited June 22, 2018 by EpicBred

[BoomyGordo]

Radial javalin has almost no use anymore. it could deffinatly use a rework. Everything else in his kit is good where its at

 

[EpicBred]

@---Quill-Onkko--- That was extremely fast.

[Aeon94]

3 minutes ago, ---Quill-Onkko--- said:

Radial javalin has almost no use anymore. it could deffinatly use a rework. Everything else in his kit is good where its at

Agreed. 

[Aleksi134]

I think radial javelin could be also a shield/damage type of ability reduces coming damage by around 50% (placeholder) and damages enemies in CQC range of excalibur. Essentially this would be flying javelins around excal.

[DeMonkey]

17 minutes ago, ---Quill-Onkko--- said:

Radial javalin has almost no use anymore. it could deffinatly use a rework. Everything else in his kit is good where its at

 

Always said it should be a part of his #2.

At low level there's no use blinding, because Javelins will kill.

At high level there's no use Javelining, because it wouldn't do enough and therefore CC is better. Join them together and you have an ability that's useful at all levels.

[BiancaRoughfin]

25 minutes ago, ---Quill-Onkko--- said:

Radial javalin has almost no use anymore. it could deffinatly use a rework. Everything else in his kit is good where its at

 

Wrong! I still use it... Accidentally when pressing 3 forgetting im not using my Zephyr to have Turbulence! 😛

Truth be told, the skill is pretty much useless other than to get a few good laughs in case you manage to kill a mob with it and see it spiraling around the map before decomposing. 

[Aechmea]

31 minutes ago, EpicBred said:

Radial Blind Change:

Let is choose if we want to use a finisher on an enemy

YES PLS! but not for Radial blind only

[EpicBred]

vor 15 Minuten schrieb Crimson-Tenno:

YES PLS! but not for Radial blind only

just read a little further 😄

[EpicBred]

vor 29 Minuten schrieb Aleksi134:

I think radial javelin could be also a shield/damage type of ability reduces coming damage by around 50% (placeholder) and damages enemies in CQC range of excalibur. Essentially this would be flying javelins around excal.

hm quite similar to idea nr 3. the "exalted cloak" was just an idea to visually represent that, but with exalted blades block It would be pretty similar. Would you say your version has a general 50% DR thats additive to EBs 60% block from the front? Id personally say it shouldnt do damage around you since thats what your sword is for, should probably have another effect like impaling enemies that are too close to you and stunning them. But that would be radial blinds function. So tbh im not too keen on simple damage reduction as an ability on excalibur, because of radial blind, but the idea is cool. Could use some tweaking though

[mac10smg--Toa_of_Green]

Just make Radial Javelin pure slash and slap a 100% status chance on it. If nothing else, it will give it purpose as an actually good damage dealer.

[EpicBred]

vor 1 Minute schrieb mac10smg-ToaOfGreen:

Just make Radial Javelin pure slash and slap a 100% status chance on it. If nothing else, it will give it purpose as an actually good damage dealer.

God no, Thats boring as hell and doesnt fit at all.

[-Kritias-]

Excalibur is in a really good spot right now

there are plenty of other frames which would need a rework.

(But yeah I don´t use Radial Javelin as well)

[EpicBred]

vor einer Stunde schrieb BringMeYourAzz:

Excalibur is in a really good spot right now

there are plenty of other frames which would need a rework.

(But yeah I don´t use Radial Javelin as well)

Guys, i think we can all agree that no one would miss radial javelin and would rather have another ability in its place. Please post your feedback on my ideas or your own ideas.

As seen with saryns recent rework, it seems like DE doesnt necessarely rework the frames that actually need it. Now that excalibur gets some general attention due to umbras release, we might be able to push a rework for him.

[Maka.Bones]

11 hours ago, ---Quill-Onkko--- said:

Radial javalin has almost no use anymore. it could deffinatly use a rework. Everything else in his kit is good where its at

 

^This. No need for excess changes outside of Radial Javelin. Maybe his 1 could use a damage buff--scaling with melee multiplier--but that's about it.  Excalibur isn't one of the frames that "needs a rework" just maybe some tweaks. 

 

And radial javelin would actually be useful if it also scaled with melee multiplier, and if exalted blade didn't shoot out waves of energy. The only reason it's pointless is because it's more energy efficient (and you deal more damage) to use exalted blade. 

Edited June 21, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[Maka.Bones]

10 hours ago, EpicBred said:

God no, Thats boring as hell and doesnt fit at all.

 

10 hours ago, mac10smg-ToaOfGreen said:

Just make Radial Javelin pure slash and slap a 100% status chance on it. If nothing else, it will give it purpose as an actually good damage dealer.

It would actually be a lot more fun, and useful than "i'm immune to everything" or "everything loses their resistances"... He already gets an iframe with his 1, and his 4 can pretty much kill anything.  I'm honestly starting to think that you don't really know how to bring out the most from his kit lol.... Honestly to even say that he needs a rework, is pretty extreme/ridiculous by itself. Maybe you should reconsider your own strategy & use/expectations from him.

What exactly is it that you want to see excalibur doing? how exactly do you want to be able to play him?

Edited June 21, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[Maka.Bones]

10 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

Always said it should be a part of his #2.

At low level there's no use blinding, because Javelins will kill.

At high level there's no use Javelining, because it wouldn't do enough and therefore CC is better. Join them together and you have an ability that's useful at all levels.

Radial Javelin already blinds, but it doesn't open enemies to finishers. 

[Maka.Bones]

Do you guys even know/understand the full extent of his kit?

1) His dash slash makes him immune to all damage, for about 1.5s (or longer if you get a good chain of attacks vs multiple enemies)... So he's good on DR, just takes good timing/skill to master this ability. 

2) Radial blind stuns, and opens to finishers (guessing you do know this one)

3) Radial Javelin also blinds/stuns, except that it doesn't open enemies to finishers... so it's like radial blind, but without finisher procs (so you already have an option to blind, without finishers... this is basically just a different version of radial blind)

4) Exalted blade blinds when you use the spin attack--That blind doesn't open finishers. However, if you decide to use radial blind + exalted blade, you actually get *the fastest finisher animations* in the game, from the exalted blade. You can also "channel" while using exalted blade, and since it auto blocks projectiles, you'll receive 0 damage from enemies. 

 

Radial blind + exalted blade, makes finishers faster than a dagger would be. They also look different/unique from other finishers. 

Edited June 21, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[(PSN)Faustx19]

First of all the energy cost of slide attacks while exalted blade is active needs to be removed.I prevent slideattacks. I also prevent other abilitys to keep exalted blade active. The waves are important to me,its horde based and excalibur is not fast and has not the best defence to get close.Sortie a good hit in the back and he is done for. I would sell him if exalted blade gets a change.

[(PSN)Faustx19]

Besides,i do not care and never use any of his other abilitys. Without exalted blade how it is now excalibur had no reason to exist.

[Maka.Bones]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)Faustx19 said:

First of all the energy cost of slide attacks while exalted blade is active needs to be removed.I prevent slideattacks. I also prevent other abilitys to keep exalted blade active. The waves are important to me,its horde based and excalibur is not fast and has not the best defence to get close.Sortie a good hit in the back and he is done for. I would sell him if exalted blade gets a change.

 

5 minutes ago, (PS4)Faustx19 said:

Besides,i do not care and never use any of his other abilitys. Without exalted blade how it is now excalibur had no reason to exist.

If you had used his other abilities, you'd know that they're also useful in horde situations.... Exalted blade isn't even his strongest ability at higher lvls. And everything exalted blade does, can be done with his 1, and 2. 

BTW the reason exalted blade slide attacks cost energy, is because they also cast a blind.... you're basically asking to cast "blind" for free... I don't see how you think that's balanced at all lol

Edited June 21, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[(PSN)Faustx19]

I play over 3500 hours. I played excalibur long before exalted blade.No,exalted blade is his strongest. Yes,build on exalted blade there is no need for his other abilitys . I use excalibur if it goes for the hard stuff, and i talk about lv 250+ enemys. The best frame for this thanks to exalted blade . I do not care about the mini blind trash, remove it with the cost and let me use the movement as it schould be. 

[EpicBred]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb Maka.Bones:

What exactly is it that you want to see excalibur doing? how exactly do you want to be able to play him?

I usually play him only with his 1 and 2, sometimes his 4. He does well and doesnt need a rework to be good. What definately needs a rework is his 3, even though some people here argue that its uselful:

vor 4 Stunden schrieb Maka.Bones:

Radial Javelin also blinds/stuns, except that it doesn't open enemies to finishers... so it's like radial blind, but without finisher procs (so you already have an option to blind, without finishers... this is basically just a different version of radial blind)

Its slow, weak, interrupts your movement and has no place in the same kit as radial blind, and its even more expensive! The QoL change i suggested for blinded enemies in general is a way better option. A new 3 is needed.

Another thing, he doesnt fit DEs vision. He doesnt have to get close to do his insane. They also reworked saryn not because she was weak, but because they didnt like how she played. Excal is nowhere near new saryns awesomeness, and id love him zo be.

I mentioned both of these reasons in the OP, but everybody here seems to ignore that.

vor 4 Stunden schrieb Maka.Bones:

Radial blind + exalted blade, makes finishers faster than a dagger would be. They also look different/unique from other finishers.

Its the standard sword finisher. It is pretty fast though, back finisher is faster than that of dagger, but the front finisher isnt.

Edited June 21, 2018 by EpicBred

[RobRalneR]

Here's my version of Excalibur's Radial Javelin.

Basically, it will be tied to the new melee rework system.

If you haven't read the Developer Workshop, here's what's written:

• Combo Counter minimum hits per tier adjusted significantly so higher tiers can be reached more quickly and easily. Combo Counter damage multiplier may apply to heavy attack only and all points are spent on attack.

If melee rework ends up being like this, then it's a perfect opportunity to tie this mechanic to Radial Javelin.

Here's how it works:

When charging up the Combo Counter damage multiplier, it can be spent on Radial Javelin. Dealing way more than the initial 1000 damage depending on how much the Combo Counter damage multiplier is charged. But once it's spent on Radial Javelin, all points are spent.

And also, make it deal finisher damage.

[Maka.Bones]

40 minutes ago, Rob12772 said:

Here's my version of Excalibur's Radial Javelin.

Basically, it will be tied to the new melee rework system.

If you haven't read the Developer Workshop, here's what's written:

• Combo Counter minimum hits per tier adjusted significantly so higher tiers can be reached more quickly and easily. Combo Counter damage multiplier may apply to heavy attack only and all points are spent on attack.

If melee rework ends up being like this, then it's a perfect opportunity to tie this mechanic to Radial Javelin.

Here's how it works:

When charging up the Combo Counter damage multiplier, it can be spent on Radial Javelin. Dealing way more than the initial 1000 damage depending on how much the Combo Counter damage multiplier is charged. But once it's spent on Radial Javelin, all points are spent.

And also, make it deal finisher damage.

I wouldn't like the absolute "all points would be spent part" but i do like the direction you're going with... especially when considering that slash dash can also be augmented to increase multiplier. 

I'd make it 25%-35% of the current points, so its effectiveness would continue to diminish, but you're not left totally helpless with your melee. 

I'd also want to incorporate a charge ability for his 1, and his 4, with the new melee system. I like slash-dash, but it makes me sad that it doesn't really kill much at lvls 40+