Excalibur rework ideas

[Maka.Bones]

5 hours ago, EpicBred said:

Its slow, weak, interrupts your movement and has no place in the same kit as radial blind, and its even more expensive! The QoL change i suggested for blinded enemies in general is a way better option. A new 3 is needed.

I definitely agree with this

5 hours ago, EpicBred said:

Another thing, he doesnt fit DEs vision. He doesnt have to get close to do his insane. They also reworked saryn not because she was weak, but because they didnt like how she played. Excal is nowhere near new saryns awesomeness, and id love him zo be.

I mentioned both of these reasons in the OP, but everybody here seems to ignore that.

On what do you base this thought/argument? I'm not really sure that he doesn't fit DE's vision... I think he might not fit YOUR desire to be on par with future warframes, but I'm not sure that power gap/creep means he's not in-line with DE's vision. What makes you suspect that? What exactly do you think is "DE's vision" ?

 

Also I have to disagree.... Saryn always had the same awesomeness ratio vs excal... all they did was just make her easier to play. If anything, by removing the energy regen from her spores, she's lost some awesomeness.... corrosive damage on spores makes up for it though. She's not magically more awesome though; she can still do the same things now, that she always could. It's just that she's now easier to use. 

 

Granted, I do hope that melee 3.0 also buffs excal

Edited June 21, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[Aechmea]

7 hours ago, Maka.Bones said:

3) Radial Javelin also blinds/stuns, except that it doesn't open enemies to finishers... so it's like radial blind, but without finisher procs (so you already have an option to blind, without finishers... this is basically just a different version of radial blind)

a Worst Version of Radial Blind that cost more energy has less duration and horrible cast animation and you can't even move FTFY (Radial javelin don't blind them just stuns.)

[Maka.Bones]

1 minute ago, Crimson-Tenno said:

a Worst Version of Radial Blind that cost more energy has less duration and horrible cast animation and you can't even move FTFY (Radial javelin don't blind them just stuns.)

Yeah, i think the energy cost increase is based on the damage output... except that the damage is pretty crappy. It wouldn't be so bad if the damage was finisher damage, and if it was slightly more than it currently is. 

[(PSN)LordSnoz007]

Excal has been my main since I started playing warframe back when Oberon was new. I agree 100% with the people that say his 3rd needs a change. I have a completely ridiculous proposition, I always wanted Excal to really fall into his sword weilding visage.

What if for his 3rd he gets a period of time where when he melee kills an enemy his combo counter gets buffed at an accelerated pace. The visual for this would be a slowly forming pair of wings, wings made of swords. These wings grow by adding swords based on the amount of kills. Once this ability wears off the combo counter returns to normal, if the combo stack expires so to do the wings. 

Thoughts? I feel this would inspire people to get closer to the action. Not sure of the numbers or percentages, but thats not my thing.

[BoomyGordo]

53 minutes ago, (PS4)LordSnoz007 said:

Excal has been my main since I started playing warframe back when Oberon was new. I agree 100% with the people that say his 3rd needs a change. I have a completely ridiculous proposition, I always wanted Excal to really fall into his sword weilding visage.

What if for his 3rd he gets a period of time where when he melee kills an enemy his combo counter gets buffed at an accelerated pace. The visual for this would be a slowly forming pair of wings, wings made of swords. These wings grow by adding swords based on the amount of kills. Once this ability wears off the combo counter returns to normal, if the combo stack expires so to do the wings. 

Thoughts? I feel this would inspire people to get closer to the action. Not sure of the numbers or percentages, but thats not my thing.

This is already covered by his augments. Surging dash augments his 1 so he gets +4 combo for every enemy hit by slash dash(when maxed). This very quickly adds up since a single slide can hit and knock down multiple people (not just dashing between them, each swing can hit multiple if they are near each other)

Furious javaline augments his 3 so he gets 5% increased melee damage for every enemy hit for 12 seconds (when maxed). This can stack to insane levels. 

[(PSN)Faustx19]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Maka.Bones:

I wouldn't like the absolute "all points would be spent part" but i do like the direction you're going with... especially when considering that slash dash can also be augmented to increase multiplier. 

I'd make it 25%-35% of the current points, so its effectiveness would continue to diminish, but you're not left totally helpless with your melee. 

I'd also want to incorporate a charge ability for his 1, and his 4, with the new melee system. I like slash-dash, but it makes me sad that it doesn't really kill much at lvls 40+

Excaliburs 4 does more dmg as every other skill or weapon in the game.Exalted blade is the most powerfull weapon in warframe.DPS is insane.Sortie lv 100 is a warmup. But mod for exalted blade makes all other abilitys useless.Still worth it. By far the most powerfull frame.

[Maka.Bones]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Faustx19 said:

Excaliburs 4 does more dmg as every other skill or weapon in the game.Exalted blade is the most powerfull weapon in warframe.DPS is insane.Sortie lv 100 is a warmup. But mod for exalted blade makes all other abilitys useless.Still worth it. By far the most powerfull frame.

.... i'm sorry dude, but you're simply wrong. You should learn more about the other warframes, and what they're capable of. Mesa, Chroma, nova, banshee, Ivara, Valkyr, are all capable of doing more damage than exalted blade can. Those are just examples from the top of my head. 

Edited June 21, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[EpicBred]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb Maka.Bones:

On what do you base this thought/argument? What exactly do you think is "DE's vision" ?

When excalibur was reworked and exalted blade introduced as his new 4, its blade waves didnt have damage falloff over distance. Then the dreaded update 18.13 came around and nerfed this, because they wanted excal to be more of a swordsman and less of a turret. He should need to get close to deal damage, but he still doesnt, hes just a turret that stands 10 meters away instead of 40 to deal his damage.

vor 4 Stunden schrieb Maka.Bones:

I think he might not fit YOUR desire to be on par with future warframes

Also true. I think every warframe should be as well designed as nidus and the current saryn, and since excal is my main, I want him to be great the most.

vor 4 Stunden schrieb Maka.Bones:

Also I have to disagree.... Saryn always had the same awesomeness ratio vs excal... all they did was just make her easier to play. If anything, by removing the energy regen from her spores, she's lost some awesomeness.... corrosive damage on spores makes up for it though. She's not magically more awesome though; she can still do the same things now, that she always could. It's just that she's now easier to use.

They straight up buffed her. Swapping miasmas and spores elemental type was great, and her 2 and especially 3 are just better now. I now use every ability with great effect, while they dont depend on each other ("forced synergy") and do more debuffing and damage than before.

But i have to agree, shes been more effective in high levels than excal since a long time, but she just recently got the awesome, with that rework.

vor 4 Stunden schrieb Maka.Bones:

Granted, I do hope that melee 3.0 also buffs excal

I do too, although I dont really think his EB needs to be buffed even more. But im interested in how it will effect exalted blade, since it doesnt have a charge attack.

 

vor einer Stunde schrieb (PS4)Faustx19:

Excaliburs 4 does more dmg as every other skill or weapon in the game.Exalted blade is the most powerfull weapon in warframe.DPS is insane.Sortie lv 100 is a warmup.

Yes

vor einer Stunde schrieb (PS4)Faustx19:

But mod for exalted blade makes all other abilitys useless.Still worth it.

If your build is bad, yes, otherwise no.

vor einer Stunde schrieb (PS4)Faustx19:

By far the most powerfull frame.

No

[Maka.Bones]

3 hours ago, EpicBred said:

They straight up buffed her. Swapping miasmas and spores elemental type was great, and her 2 and especially 3 are just better now. I now use every ability with great effect, while they dont depend on each other ("forced synergy") and do more debuffing and damage than before.

But i have to agree, shes been more effective in high levels than excal since a long time, but she just recently got the awesome, with that rework.

I definitely agree that the elemental damage swap was a buff. Though imo it should've been like that from the start. This way makes much more sense. but I meant that she's always been a powerhouse, it's just that she wasn't as straightforward to use, as she is now. 

 

I'm with you on that I don't necessarily like the exalted blade waves though. I would like it better if they made the waves a function of his 3rd ability (give hi the animation that he swings super fast, and creates ranged AoE slashes through the wind that damages enemies... kinda like Guy Sensei's ranged punches) or a circular wave from spin attacks. 

Edited June 21, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[Maka.Bones]

@EpicBred btw... how/where can I get that glyph? I NEED IT

Nvm, i just got it 😄

Edited June 22, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[Hrodgrim]

I posted this in another thread. I feel it belongs here too.

Spoiler

Excalibur is, for the most part, a really good frame. Indeed, I have more hours spent on Excalibur than any other, more than double second place. Even though he's a great frame, he has two powers that don't see much use.

Slash Dash: Really, the only problem here is the iffy targeting. Originally, Slash Dash was quite literally a straight dash toward the cursor, moving across the ground. This dash gave Excalibur some i-frames as he careened through enemies and hallways, and had a pretty decent chunk of damage associated with it. Currently Slash Dash has far superior damage, but will seldom hit more than one or two foes. All I would like to see here is some way to improve the targeting or to work it similarly to Zephyr's first power, just dashing in a straight line.

Radial Blind: This power is pretty much fine. There isn't much that could be done to improve it without making it too good.

Radial Javelin: This power exemplifies the phrase "how the mighty have fallen", though not because it has been made any worse, but because of how irrelevant its utility has become. This power began as an omnidirectional spray of javelins outward from Excalibur. They were treated as projectiles and even synergized with Mag's Bullet Attractor. Sometime later, Radial Javelin was changed to summon javelins at nearby enemies to impale them with, even behind cover, very similarly to what we currently have. This ability to attack through walls was why it was, for a time, considered the meta (Memeing Strike was a mistake). Radial Javelin was later changed to require enemies or Excalibur to make line of sight to Excalibur or the foe respectively, further encouraging moving around rather than standing in one spot spamming the key. As of typing this, Radial Javelin's only real utility is that it deals damage in a fairly large area,but this damage falls off quickly. The only remaining use it has is that it stuns enemies for a bit as they writhe in pain, another effect overshadowed by Radial Blind. To fix this one, I'd just change it entirely. Perhaps some coruscating light from the heavens to come down and debuff the enemies in some way? As it stands, Excalibur has no need for any extra damage capability, and instead would do better to have some extra utility.

Exalted Blade: Oh precious Egg Blade. This power has a real problem. It's meant to be a melee weapon, but it constantly flings out shockwaves, making it the best ranged weapon in the game. Knowing that there's a melee rework soon, perhaps this power will get another looksee. What I propose is to remove the shockwaves from all standard attacks, and instead implement them on the charge attacks. You could soup up the blade's base range when swung, and increase the shockwave's raw power (due to it being a charge attack, a time investment). This would turn it into an actual melee weapon and not the best gun in the game. Also get rid of the slide attack blind. It looks really dumb, and a high-range horizontal cut would be a lot more useful. If you really want to keep the blind gimmick, just cut the standard blind's cast time while Egg Blade is currently active.

What do you fellas think?

[Teridax68]

I'm not a foremost authority on Excal, but I agree with removing Slash Dash's stop so as to make it more fluid. Finishers I think should go back to making no sound at all, and at this point we probably need AoE finishers, as the issue right now is that their preset animations are too slow relative to the attacks we normally output, to the point where they can result in a DPS loss. Exalted Blade I personally feel is satisfying and fun to use as is, and I wouldn't want it to lose its energy waves.

I agree that Radial Javelin needs a change, though. As it stands, it's a damage ability on a frame that already has plenty of damage elsewhere, one that rapidly falls off after enemies reach a certain level. The quick-and-dirty solution, imo, could be to just have it deal increased/finisher damage against unaware or blinded enemies, so that Excal could infiltrate a room and clear a crowd immediately, or do the same after using his blind. @Rob12772 mentioned having Radial Javelin expend combo counter stacks to deal increased damage, which I really like, especially if Exalted Blade could then also increment the new combo counter. Alternatively, some kind of utility ability could be good, ideally one that's simple and useful in solo play as well. Because of this, I'd stay away from options 1 and 2, both of which come across as pretty technical. Exalted Cloak is a simple and effective idea, but I feel may lack the impact of his other abilities, all of which are pretty active. 

Personally, my favorite solution would be to just make Radial Javelin applied a modified melee strike to each enemy, affected by ability mods, melee mods, and the combo counter, as is already the case with Slash Dash. Attacking a whole bunch of enemies just to kill the remaining ones with one big AoE I think is a really cool existing moment that needs a push at higher levels, and having the ability interact with blind, stealth, and the rest of Excal's kit could make it fit so much better, while building upon his current status as a versatile frame.

[Top_Kekkonen]

Radial Javelin should be replaced, the rest of excals kit is fine, maybe change his 1 to be more useful.

[EpicBred]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Maka.Bones:

I definitely agree that the elemental damage swap was a buff. Though imo it should've been like that from the start. This way makes much more sense. but I meant that she's always been a powerhouse, it's just that she wasn't as straightforward to use, as she is now. 

Ah now i get what you mean. And i agree, but just calling it "easier to use than before" doesnt do the changes justice imo. Saryn is a pretty much perfectly designed frame right now, it cant do much better than that.

vor einer Stunde schrieb Maka.Bones:

I'm with you on that I don't necessarily like the exalted blade waves though. I would like it better if they made the waves a function of his 3rd ability (give hi the animation that he swings super fast, and creates ranged AoE slashes through the wind that damages enemies... kinda like Guy Sensei's ranged punches) or a circular wave from spin attacks. 

I dont really understand what you mean. You dont like the energy waves on his 4 so youd remove them from exalted blade (?) but then just make his 3 do the waves? Or do you mean you would change the visual effect of his 3 to energy waves instead of skanas/javelins but keep the ability the same?

BTW last time i checked excal umbras "javelins" where just painted skana primes? How lazy is that? At least change them to ethereal skiajatis. And make skiajati a sword already dangit.

vor einer Stunde schrieb Maka.Bones:

@EpicBred btw... how/where can I get that glyph? I NEED IT

Nvm, i just got it 😄

I actually wanted the kind of glyph every other prime frame has, but they werent in game and i couldnt hold myself from buying the first other umbra glyph i saw 😄

[EpicBred]

@Reefermun

Slash Dash:

I think they changed it because it was pretty much a copy of rhino charge. It was probably the other way around but anyway they probably didnt want the exact same ability on two frames. But i liked its reliable mobility a lot more than the new one, which places my in the middle of a group of enemies without me even wanting it and without any time to get out alive.

Radial Javelin:

Old draco farm, which is probably what you were thinking of writing your post, is the reason i dont want to have radial javelin changed to simply do finisher damage.

About your idea, what kind of debuff where you thinking of? Like the one i suggested in the OP? Id personally dont make it a "godly light from the heavens" debuffing our enemies, excal should do that himself. His theme is light, not sone religion. But thats

1 personal preference

2 just visual, the mechanics are whats important here.

Exalted Blade:

I agree, remove the waves AND the blind actually. It currently has a "charge attack combo" which could be interesting with melee 3.0. But the stance would have to be remade anyway, without waves the button mash combo will look even more ridiculous. But what would be the special thing about EB when the waves get removed? Valkyrs claws make her invincible and wukongs staff grows in size with the combo counter. We cant just keep it a boring sword.

[EpicBred]

What would you all think about a simple one time vortex as a new 3? Like nidus larva, but centered on excal? Pulls enemies into melee range, actually useful and fitting for a melee + cc frame.

Im going to sleep now and add the idea to the OP tomorrow, give me your feedback while its night for me.

[DeMonkey]

17 hours ago, Maka.Bones said:

Radial Javelin already blinds, but it doesn't open enemies to finishers. 

For someone with the pretty snobby ''do you guys even know/understand the full extent of his kit'' comments, you sure don't seem to know a lot about his kit.

No, Javelins do not blind nor have they ever blinded, they stun. Blinding stuns enemies as well for a short duration, but then leaves them blinded for a duration afterwards. You know, that duration where they can't shoot properly... That's a blind.

I don't see the relevance of your comment tbh, it looks like you're trying to correct me or point out a flaw in my argument but... didn't.

If you want me to add more reasons the 2 abilities should just be a single one though, I'm down. They each have the same radius, they each require LoS and they each have a stun. In essence they affect the exact same area, just with different effects, one that's useful at high levels and one that's useful at low levels. 

Incorporating them both together would, as stated, cause the ability to be relevant at all levels by providing decent damage on the star chart and CC'ing enemies at higher levels. The change would also remove the limited targeting that's an unfortunate consequence of Vivergate that DE still haven't removed.

Given we'd get a whole new ability slot, I propose we ask for Super Jump back.

Spoiler

/s

 

[Maka.Bones]

4 hours ago, EpicBred said:

Saryn is a pretty much perfectly designed frame right now, it cant do much better than that.

Allow us to get energy from popping spores with toxic lash melee, and make her miasma a 12m toggle like ember's WoF. That way its easier to infect viral. 

You were saying...? Lel

[Maka.Bones]

5 hours ago, EpicBred said:

6 hours ago, Maka.Bones said:



I dont really understand what you mean. You dont like the energy waves on his 4 so youd remove them from exalted blade (?) but then just make his 3 do the waves? Or do you mean you would change the visual effect of his 3 to energy waves instead of skanas/javelins but keep the ability the same?

I mean either

A) make his slide attack, do a 360, omnidirectional wave slash (instead of the current blind) 

Or 

B) yeah change the animation of radial Javelin, but also make the damage of 3, scale from 4's mods. Make it an air slash frenzy, instead of skana prime stabs lol. Or just give him more swords to summon, and give em more damage. 

 

I actually like the idea that he summons a bunch of lightswords, and stabs enemies with em. Its kinda like Gilgamesh/archer's noble phantasm, from Fate. But as it currently is, its rather weak/limited. 

 

Edited June 22, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[ganjou234]

My take on a rework:

Radial javelin -> Radial Judgement

• Excalibur stabs the ground 0.8s cast time
• Enemies' last positions within 7/10/15 meters of excalibur (affected by range mods) are marked on cast for 3s (duration is not affected by duration mods).
• On end of cast, 1 Ethereal sword falls on the marks for the duration of the marks. (1 sword per second, negative duration increases the rate), swords embedded on the ground/mark remain after 5 seconds.
• Enemies hit by a sword are staggered (guaranteed impact proc).
• Damage done by the swords are based off of the stats and mods on Exalted Blade. If Chromatic Blade is equipped then the swords will do elemental damage.
• Each hit increases the combo counter of currently equipped weapon by 1
• Blinded enemies take stealth bonus damage when hit
• Augment: Devastating Judgement
  • Radial Judgement can be channeled, consuming a point of energy per mark made
  • Blades will continue to rain on the marks as long as the ability is channeled.
  • Excalibur stabs the ground with both hands holding an exalted blade (two handed downward stab), and remains in the stab position while channeling.
  • Rate of falling swords is tripled.
  • Marks enemies themselves instead of the last location, tapping Radial judgement instead of channeling marks enemies for 3 seconds.
  • Excalibur cannot be staggered or knocked down when channeling (including staggers by Quick Thinking).
  • Falling swords are not homing on enemies.
• Cannot target airborne enemies but can target Vomvalysts.

Edited June 22, 2018 by ganjou234

[Maka.Bones]

4 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

For someone with the pretty snobby ''do you guys even know/understand the full extent of his kit'' comments, you sure don't seem to know a lot about his kit.

No, Javelins do not blind nor have they ever blinded, they stun. Blinding stuns enemies as well for a short duration, but then leaves them blinded for a duration afterwards. You know, that duration where they can't shoot properly... That's a blind.

I don't see the relevance of your comment tbh, it looks like you're trying to correct me or point out a flaw in my argument but... didn't.

Lol the one who sounds snobby here is you.  Blind = stun. So yes, it blinds them. Your argument is based on semantics. 

Edited June 22, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[DeMonkey]

7 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

Lol the one who sounds snobby here is you.  Blind = stun. So yes, it blinds them. Your argument is based on semantics. 

No, my argument is based on facts.

"Blind" is an effect that causes the enemy to fire randomly and take 4x melee damage.

"Stun" is an effect that lasts about a second and completely incapacitates the enemy for that second.

Don't even try and argue that they're the same, this isn't semantics, they're blatantly different effects.

Also, "my argument"? You started this.

Edited June 22, 2018 by DeMonkey

[Maka.Bones]

21 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

No, my argument is based on facts.

"Blind" is an effect that causes the enemy to fire randomly and take 4x melee damage.

"Stun" is an effect that lasts about a second and completely incapacitates the enemy for that second.

Don't even try and argue that they're the same, this isn't semantics, they're blatantly different effects.

Also, "my argument"? You started this.

Yeah um.. please stop, and listen to yourself.

 

Either way, they both stun. Same thing as far as CC (and my point) is concerned. Not like we really need the x4 melee damage, when you're gonna instakill the enemy any way. 

 

And no man, you actually started it. I was honestly trying to help people out, and unserstand what exactly it was that OP wanted to accomplish. If you read our convos, that becomes pretty evident. Please dont pull me along with your petty disgruntlement. If it makes you feel better, I apologize for upsetting you. But please dont continue with the tone. All you had to say was "actually radial javelin only stuns. and stuns are different from blinds, as far as game mechanics are concerned" then i wouldve replied with "oh, im sorry I didnt know that lol. My bad for posting wrong info. Thanks for letting me know though" but instead  you started with the "for someone with the pretty snobby..."

Yeah dude... youre kinda doing what you're accusing me of. Maybe you stop..? Then we can just focus on discussing builds, instead of promoting drama...  (though i know some ppl are probably reading this, with pop corn onhand) Sorry for coming across in a way that bothered you, but that honestly wasnt my intention.  And in the future, it might help you to not call other people names....

Edited June 22, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[DeMonkey]

2 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

Yeah um.. please stop, and listen to yourself.

 

Either way, they both stun. Same thing as far as CC (and my point) is concerned. Not like we really need the x4 melee damage, when you're gonna instakill the enemy any way. 

 

And no man, you actually started it. I was honestly trying to help people out, and unserstand what exactly it was that OP wanted to accomplish. If you read our convos, that becomes pretty evident. Please dont pull me along with your petty disgruntlement. If it makes you feel better, I apologize for upsetting you. But please dont continue with the tone. 

Listen to what? The truth?

Yes, they both stun. But curiously that has nothing to do with my original post. You've mentioned the stun as if it's relevant, claimed it's actually a blind and had the cheek to argue with me about it.

No, I didn't start it. Go and look at your first response to me, where you attempt to ''correct'' me by pointing out that Radial Javelin ''Blinds'' as well.

If you want to help people, 

1) Don't spread misinformation.

2) Don't argue with people when they correct you.

3) Don't make random accusations. What petty disgruntlement am I attempting to pull you along with? Aside from giving my opinion on the ability as a whole I've had no interactions with anyone here, so whatever disgruntlement you think I'm trying to pull you into simply doesn't exist.

You'll find that your posts are a lot more helpful in no time at all. 

[Maka.Bones]

3 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Listen to what? The truth?

Yes, they both stun. But curiously that has nothing to do with my original post. You've mentioned the stun as if it's relevant, claimed it's actually a blind and had the cheek to argue with me about it.

No, I didn't start it. Go and look at your first response to me, where you attempt to ''correct'' me by pointing out that Radial Javelin ''Blinds'' as well.

If you want to help people, 

1) Don't spread misinformation.

2) Don't argue with people when they correct you.

3) Don't make random accusations. What petty disgruntlement am I attempting to pull you along with? Aside from giving my opinion on the ability as a whole I've had no interactions with anyone here, so whatever disgruntlement you think I'm trying to pull you into simply doesn't exist.

You'll find that your posts are a lot more helpful in no time at all. 

*shrug* you continue to do what youre accusing me of, and you cant even see it yourself lol. I wasnt the one who started calling names btw... But Ok man, whatever you say. Lets just focus on the actual subject of the discussuon, ok?

Edited June 22, 2018 by Maka.Bones