Excalibur rework ideas

[DeMonkey]

3 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

you continue to do what youre accusing me of, and you cant even see it yourself lol

I see it, it's entirely intentional. I respond in a manner appropriate to the person I'm replying to.

5 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

Lets just focus on the actual subject of the discussuon, ok?

That would be marvellous, why didn't you do that from the start?

So, got any thoughts on my opinion you want to share beyond your ''correction''? Because so far, with regards to me, that's all you've offered up.

[Maka.Bones]

11 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Yes, they both stun. But curiously that has nothing to do with my original post. You've mentioned the stun as if it's relevant, claimed it's actually a blind and had the cheek to argue with me about it.

Btw, what i mean is Simple. As far as effective CC is concerned (and as far as my point is concerned)  blind = stun. I dont care for the "they walk around, but can't shoot" aspect of it, because that just makes them moving targets. All i care for is stopping their actions. 

Edited June 22, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[DeMonkey]

Just now, Maka.Bones said:

Btw, what i mean is Simple. As far as effective CC is concerned  blind = stun. I dont care for the "they walk around, but can't shoot" aspect of it, because that just makes them moving targets. All i care for is stopping their actions. 

Now that is semantics.

Objectively they're incredibly different forms of CC, your subjective view of the meaning of ''CC'' is not relevant, nor should you attempt an argument based on it.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Maka.Bones]

6 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

I see it, it's entirely intentional. I respond in a manner appropriate to the person I'm replying to.

That would be marvellous, why didn't you do that from the start?

So, got any thoughts on my opinion you want to share beyond your ''correction''? Because so far, with regards to me, that's all you've offered up.

 

3 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Now that is semantics.

Objectively they're incredibly different forms of CC, your subjective view of the meaning of ''CC'' is not relevant, nor should you attempt an argument based on it.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

For someone who "isnt disgruntled" you sure sound like it. 

Literally all i said to you at first was "Radial Javelin already blinds, but it doesn't open enemies to finishers."

and you replied by calling me a snob, and writing me a letter. 

sorry man, but im done replying to you. Im not going to continue perpetuating this. 

Edited June 22, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[EpicBred]

@Maka.Bones and @DeMonkey

Please stop arguing. Maka you shouldnt have said that a stun is a blind (which would be true the other way around, but is simply false like this) and then also added that "seems like you dont know the mechanics" sentence. We dont need to drag this on for multiple sites and get this thread closed, its unnecessary.

[DeMonkey]

Just now, EpicBred said:

Please stop arguing.

You're the boss.

[Maka.Bones]

7 minutes ago, EpicBred said:

@Maka.Bones and @DeMonkey

Please stop arguing. Maka you shouldnt have said that a stun is a blind (which would be true the other way around, but is simply false like this) and then also added that "seems like you dont know the mechanics" sentence. We dont need to drag this on for multiple sites and get this thread closed, its unnecessary.

I actually... was trying to say this. 

14 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

Btw, what i mean is Simple. As far as effective CC is concerned (and as far as my point is concerned)  blind = stun.

But hey, I even apologized to this dude after he called me a snob, and kept making me feel like crap. So i dont get why im the one being reprimanded. 

Edited June 22, 2018 by Maka.Bones

[Maka.Bones]

9 minutes ago, Maka.Bones said:

sorry man, but im done replying to you. Im not going to continue perpetuating this. 

Guess im just done with this thread altogether instead. 

[EpicBred]

vor 22 Minuten schrieb Maka.Bones:

I actually... was trying to say this.

...

So i dont get why im the one being reprimanded. 

Guess im just done with this thread altogether instead. 

I wanted to point out that the initial mistake you made is corrected and you acknowledged it, so that there is no need to perpetuate your argument. I just mentioned you directly again because you made that mistake at the start, but the message is directed at both of you:

You can both stop getting at each other since what you were arguing over is fixed, so there is nothing stopping you from not leaving and getting back to the main topic.

[EpicBred]

BTW added the singularity idea to the OP.

[EpicBred]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Maka.Bones:

I mean either

A) make his slide attack, do a 360, omnidirectional wave slash (instead of the current blind) 

Or 

B) yeah change the animation of radial Javelin, but also make the damage of 3, scale from 4's mods. Make it an air slash frenzy, instead of skana prime stabs lol. Or just give him more swords to summon, and give em more damage. 

A) yes, reduce the range a good bit but the idea is good.

B1) not a fan. Sounds like an even longer cast time. 

B2) yes, since radial javelin is already limited to line of sight we dont need an enemy limit.

[EpicBred]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb Teridax68:

I'm not a foremost authority on Excal, but I agree with removing Slash Dash's stop so as to make it more fluid. Finishers I think should go back to making no sound at all, and at this point we probably need AoE finishers, as the issue right now is that their preset animations are too slow relative to the attacks we normally output...

Absolutely great point. Make slash dashing a blinded enemy count as finishers. Then i would also like the targeting mechanik of slash dash and not only use it for mobility, but it would need to be improved because its not very reliable. But id say make it an augment for slash dash, its a little powerful as innate mechanic.

Also, silent finishers: yes.

As for the rest of your post: true, one of those cast once and forget passives you need to refresh all the time wouldnt fit excalibur, he needs something active. You might like the singularity idea i added to the OP. Ill probably edit the other ideas in there quite a bit and replace some later.

Still not happy with just giving radial javelin more killing power, the abilities design is just bad. But that might be a personal problem, since many people here seem to like it. Do you actually want the exact same ability with more damage or do you think DE wouldnt bother editing the ability more than just change some numbers?

[EpicBred]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb DeMonkey:

Incorporating them both together would, as stated, cause the ability to be relevant at all levels by providing decent damage on the star chart and CC'ing enemies at higher levels. The change would also remove the limited targeting that's an unfortunate consequence of Vivergate that DE still haven't removed.

Not a fan, especially for playing with newbies. Imagine its new description:

Excalibur emits blinding light from his sword, stunning enemies, adding a melee damage multiplier and opining them up to finishers. And also making ethereal swords fly into their faces dealing damage. But only to 12 of them. And also ignoring the damage multiplier.

vor 5 Stunden schrieb DeMonkey:

Given we'd get a whole new ability slot, I propose we ask for Super Jump back.

Why not actually.

[DeMonkey]

14 minutes ago, EpicBred said:

Not a fan, especially for playing with newbies. Imagine its new description:

Excalibur emits blinding light from his sword, stunning enemies, adding a melee damage multiplier and opining them up to finishers. And also making ethereal swords fly into their faces dealing damage. But only to 12 of them. And also ignoring the damage multiplier.

Not like the current description mentions the multiplier or finishers though. I also, in that very post, mentioned getting rid of the limited targeting. 

A more fitting description would perhaps be:

''Excalibur summons swords of pure light to impale nearby enemies. Enemies that survive the blow are left blinded for several seconds."

...or if you want the melee multiplier to affect the Javelins, because powercreep...

''Excalibur summons swords of pure light to blind nearby enemies before impaling them.''

Which part do you think a newbie would struggle with, out of curiosity? In essence it's arguably pretty similar to Reckoning, although each would have their own uses.

[EpicBred]

vor 1 Minute schrieb DeMonkey:

Not like the current description mentions the multiplier or finishers though. 

True, the current ability descriptions arent very informative.

vor 2 Minuten schrieb DeMonkey:

I also, in that very post, mentioned getting rid of the limited targeting. 

Oops, overread that. My bad.

vor 3 Minuten schrieb DeMonkey:

Which part do you think a newbie would struggle with, out of curiosity? In essence it's arguably pretty similar to Reckoning, although each would have their own uses.

When im playing with newbies i dont like to instakill everything in the room. Nukes like that are stupid at any level, especially when their cast time is as short as RBs. Id much rather support them without taking away their kills. And its kind of strange to have one ability be a totally different one in lower levels than it is in higher levels.

While those are all just personal problems and entirely subjective, i fear this might push DE to put radial blind as his 3rd ability, and no one would want that.

[DeMonkey]

Just now, EpicBred said:

True, the current ability descriptions arent very informative.

Agreed, a couple of relevant examples are Invisibility not listing the melee damage buff and Reckoning itself not mentioning the blind.

1 minute ago, EpicBred said:

When im playing with newbies i dont like to instakill everything in the room. Nukes like that are stupid at any level, especially when their cast time is as short as RBs. Id much rather support them without taking away their kills. And its kind of strange to have one ability be a totally different one in lower levels than it is in higher levels.

While those are all just personal problems and entirely subjective, i fear this might push DE to put radial blind as his 3rd ability, and no one would want that.

Hmmm, whilst I can appreciate that there's always ways to build around that. Overextended + Extinguished Key would drastically reduce the damage dealt by the ability, and even at low levels would probably just leave you with the blind.

There's also the fact that it's LoS, so whilst it can Nuke it won't happen easily.

I see what you mean though, and whilst I can appreciate it it's not something I'd personally lose any sleep over. I'd use a Nyx or a... Wukong to support newer players instead. Probably just Wukong though...

[EpicBred]

vor 56 Minuten schrieb DeMonkey:

Hmmm, whilst I can appreciate that there's always ways to build around that. Overextended + Extinguished Key would drastically reduce the damage dealt by the ability, and even at low levels would probably just leave you with the blind.

There's also the fact that it's LoS, so whilst it can Nuke it won't happen easily.

I see what you mean though, and whilst I can appreciate it it's not something I'd personally lose any sleep over. I'd use a Nyx or a... Wukong to support newer players instead. Probably just Wukong though...

Im pretty sure even with 40% strength the javelins will one shot near the beginning of the game.

But yea again its more of a personal thing. Could we agree on the javelin half of the ability being a second augment for radial blind? You dont need the 300% increase of the other augment and can probably dedicate a slot to the augment in a low level build.

BTW i kind of expected the wukong thing for some reason. Its the same for me with excalibur.

[Shad0wWatcher]

I say remove radial javelin and turn it into a buff that boosts his melee attacks by 50%, that also boost's his exalted blade's damage of course. Little bit of synergy there.

[EpicBred]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Shad0wWatcher:

I say remove radial javelin and turn it into a buff that boosts his melee attacks by 50%, that also boost's his exalted blade's damage of course. Little bit of synergy there.

You mean an egoist / limited version of rhino roar?

[Hrodgrim]

2 hours ago, Shad0wWatcher said:

I say remove radial javelin and turn it into a buff that boosts his melee attacks by 50%, that also boost's his exalted blade's damage of course. Little bit of synergy there.

Excalibur scarcely needs more damage. He's an offensive juggernaut already. His defenses are pretty great too due to Radial Blind. 

On a somewhat related note, it would be pretty neat to replace Radial Javelin with something similar to the Ring of Pain powerup from Maximo. In that game, with the Ring of Pain powerup, anytime you'd perform a ground stab, a ring of blades would pop up around you and stab everything nearby. Could be a little better, thematically, than manifesting weird swords in uncomfortable positions everywhere.

[EpicBred]

vor 38 Minuten schrieb Reefermun:

Excalibur scarcely needs more damage. He's an offensive juggernaut already. His defenses are pretty great too due to Radial Blind.

Exactly, thats why i would give him another cc ability enabling him to use his damage more effectively against the mass of enemies.

vor 40 Minuten schrieb Reefermun:

On a somewhat related note, it would be pretty neat to replace Radial Javelin with something similar to the Ring of Pain powerup from Maximo. In that game, with the Ring of Pain powerup, anytime you'd perform a ground stab, a ring of blades would pop up around you and stab everything nearby. Could be a little better, thematically, than manifesting weird swords in uncomfortable positions everywhere.

Isnt that exactly what RJ  is right now?

[Hrodgrim]

58 minutes ago, EpicBred said:

Isnt that exactly what RJ  is right now?

Nope. Ring of Pain was a static area that popped up around Maximo. It didn't have to pick and choose targets either.

[EpicBred]

vor 11 Minuten schrieb Reefermun:

Nope. Ring of Pain was a static area that popped up around Maximo. It didn't have to pick and choose targets either.

Ah, so you mean like nezhas divine spears?

[Hrodgrim]

Just now, EpicBred said:

Ah, so you mean like nezhas divine spears?

Not quite, but close enough :^)

Anyway, Excalibur just needs something else entirely for his third power. While a ring of pain would be cool, and fit perfectly, thematically, he just doesn't need any more offensive capability. Someone mentioned earlier that Radial Blind could be combined with Radial Javelin, and I sort of agree, though I would dig it a lot more if the light itself just burnt the enemies to death, rather than summoning weird swords from thin air. As for what Radial Javelin could be replaced with, I sort of like the notion of a large vacuum centered on Excalibur.

[EpicBred]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Reefermun:

Not quite, but close enough :^)

Dangit, I was so confident i had it.

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Reefermun:

Anyway, Excalibur just needs something else entirely for his third power. While a ring of pain would be cool, and fit perfectly, thematically, he just doesn't need any more offensive capability.

Both true.

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Reefermun:

Someone mentioned earlier that Radial Blind could be combined with Radial Javelin, and I sort of agree, though I would dig it a lot more if the light itself just burnt the enemies to death, rather than summoning weird swords from thin air.

Well, im sure they are supposed to be made of light, just like exalted blade, but it just looks weird. Not sure if burning them to death would perfectly fit his theme, even though we are technically burning the enemies eyes. Have you read my suggestion about implementing that as a second augment for radial blind? What do you think about that?

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Reefermun:

As for what Radial Javelin could be replaced with, I sort of like the notion of a large vacuum centered on Excalibur.

YES a supporter.