Facial proportions are bad in this game.

[motorfirebox]

10 hours ago, KubrowTamer said:

there is a difference between stylization and a bad understanding of proportions. Their faces wouldn't physically be capable of working. They width of their mouth would cause their lips to curve around their jaw when they stretched out their mouths.

Yes, there is a difference. This is an example of stylization. You can tell because other humans in the game, e.g. Lotus, Naked Nick, relay personnel, etcetera have different facial proportions.

[Guest]

Just now, motorfirebox said:

Yes, there is a difference. This is an example of stylization. You can tell because other humans in the game, e.g. Lotus, Naked Nick, relay personnel, etcetera have different facial proportions.

Which is not actually good. Either Stylize everything, or don't Stylize at all. Inconsistency is an eyesore.

As I said earlier on this thread, does it make sense to put say, an anime character into family guy, or Homer Simpson into Marvel Comics without an art shift?

[motorfirebox]

7 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

Which is not actually good. Either Stylize everything, or don't Stylize at all. Inconsistency is an eyesore.

As I said earlier on this thread, does it make sense to put say, an anime character into family guy, or Homer Simpson into Marvel Comics without an art shift?

Yes, because it's thousands or hundreds of thousands of years in the future, where genetic manipulation is common and there's been plenty of time for mutation. It makes perfect sense for different groups to have undergone genetic drift in different directions.

[Guest]

55 minutes ago, motorfirebox said:

Yes, because it's thousands or hundreds of thousands of years in the future, where genetic manipulation is common and there's been plenty of time for mutation. It makes perfect sense for different groups to have undergone genetic drift in different directions.

Art shift is art shift. Inconsistency is inconsistency.

If you want to argue the genetic basis, I would counter argue that genetic evolution does not push for the existence of traits which are not  helpful/traits which are detrimental. There is a reason why human appearance has not evolved that much for many. many thousands of years. Plus people wouldn't make themselves uglier without importing "function". I don't feel that the Ostrons have any evolutionary advantage compared to say, the Lotus or Ballas. Or if less weird, all the operatives.

Basically, nobody would genetically change themselves to look different/inhuman for no good reason. Would you genetically engineer say, a child, to look like a half dead fish, if it conferred no advantage at all?

Genetic Drift is not a good explanation for a reasonably sized community. There has been no evidence to show that the Ostrons had underwent population bottlenecking in any history. Unless they are really, really inbred, it is hard to argue founder population/genetic drift, as large populations are too difficult for the coincidences required for such to happen. So we can actually just throw all the genetic theory out and accept it is Art Shift.

The only question here is the intent of said Art Shift, and why DE would do something so inconsistent with the rest of the game. Whim?

[motorfirebox]

1 hour ago, Datam4ss said:

Art shift is art shift. Inconsistency is inconsistency.

If you want to argue the genetic basis, I would counter argue that genetic evolution does not push for the existence of traits which are not  helpful/traits which are detrimental. There is a reason why human appearance has not evolved that much for many. many thousands of years. Plus people wouldn't make themselves uglier without importing "function". I don't feel that the Ostrons have any evolutionary advantage compared to say, the Lotus or Ballas. Or if less weird, all the operatives.

Basically, nobody would genetically change themselves to look different/inhuman for no good reason. Would you genetically engineer say, a child, to look like a half dead fish, if it conferred no advantage at all?

Genetic Drift is not a good explanation for a reasonably sized community. There has been no evidence to show that the Ostrons had underwent population bottlenecking in any history. Unless they are really, really inbred, it is hard to argue founder population/genetic drift, as large populations are too difficult for the coincidences required for such to happen. So we can actually just throw all the genetic theory out and accept it is Art Shift.

The only question here is the intent of said Art Shift, and why DE would do something so inconsistent with the rest of the game. Whim?

It's not inconsistency. It's different styles for different groups. And yes, there is plenty of evidence that the Ostrons and everyone else in the system underwent population bottlenecking in the form of multiple system-wide catastrophes. The Great Plague, the collapse, the Sentient war, etc etc etc. Genetic evolution doesn't "push" for anything, it's simply the result of which individuals managed to breed before they died. Traits useful to survival are likely to be passed on, but they're not the only traits that get passed. There's no evidence that epicanthal folds, or wide cheekbones, or a more pronounced nasal ridge, or almost any other ethnicity-specific common facial feature has anything to do with group survival.

It's not art shift, it's stylization. Or rather, it's not art shift in the form of some unintended mistake, it's art shift for the purpose of creating a clear and unique style particular to a particular in-game culture. DE's entire art team didn't just wake up one day and randomly forget how to make faces.

If you don't like the stylization they went with, that's fine, but that doesn't mean it was a mistake or that they didn't know what they were doing.

Edited June 23, 2018 by motorfirebox

[Guest]

Just now, motorfirebox said:

It's not inconsistency. It's different styles for different groups. And yes, there is plenty of evidence that the Ostrons and everyone else in the system underwent population bottlenecking in the form of multiple system-wide catastrophes. The Great Plague, the collapse, the Sentient war, etc etc etc. Genetic evolution doesn't "push" for anything, it's simply the result of which individuals managed to breed before they died. Traits useful to survival are likely to be passed on, but they're not the only traits that get passed. There's no evidence that epicanthal folds, or wide cheekbones, or a more pronounced nasal ridge, or almost any other ethnicity-specific common facial feature has anything to do with group survival.

There is a clear reason why all these events are in vague terms - it's almost like you aren't supposed to know the consequences of all these events outside of what is related to the story of your Tenno. It is just as easy to argue that these events were too minor to cause population bottlenecking as it is easy to argue that they did. The Devs left it vague on purpose, I am sure, because they simply wanted to allow people to believe what they wanted. It might have been a catastrophe ... or maybe it's a significant event that was stopped by the Tenno BEFORE it became too large a problem. 

Ah, yes, but as someone mentioned, the Ostron face proportions are off by quite a wide margin. If they are caricatured it makes sense but stop trying to explain it with the genetic argument - it is too difficult to believe as everything else in the game looks normal, relatively. Therefore, I shall focus more on the main argument:

7 minutes ago, motorfirebox said:

It's not art shift, it's stylization. Or rather, it's not art shift in the form of some unintended mistake, it's art shift for the purpose of creating a clear and unique style particular to a particular in-game culture. DE's entire art team didn't just wake up one day and randomly forget how to make faces.

Ah yes, you can say that, but this is still begging the question of "why abandon consistency". Why do something purposely just to "create a clear and unique style" when it obviously clashes with the rest of the game?

This will of course devolve into either a semantic battle, so we should call it a day. I would be unable to convince you to follow my point of view, but you will be unable to convince me that the Ostron design is not a terrible mistake. There would be no point pushing this further.

[Aru3]

Some of the Tenno do have some bad facial proportions, it's true. Lotus is a bit odd too. The other characters though, the stylization is fine. But, I don't think it's worth the time and money to fix, as the game is overflowing with great style, the human faces don't even crop up much during actual gameplay, and it's not really a gameplay problem, and making games like this is expensive.

By the way, you people who immediately chime in with one-sided arguments (or no argument...), you scare away the rational opinions and that's a shame.

Edited June 23, 2018 by Aru3