Why are the Grineer and Corpus so bad?

[Sudzz]

Besides their bad attitudes i have not really found anything that tells me why the Grineer and the Corpus are so bad. Lotus sometimes says that they are cruel and greedy and pray on the weak and innocent but that doesent tell you much. What are the pasts of the grineer and corpus that makes it fine to plow through thousands of soldiers mercilessly.

and are there future plans for more lore regarding this?

[(PSN)RhinoCharging00]

They aren't...well, except when they are trying to crack open your skull and suck the contents out.

[Prof.549]

And no one mentions Tenno, who wiped out the entire civilization and continuing to kill everyone in their way 

[PrimeCypher]

A few things have been added to more or less hint at what they've done more than shown it. If I recall correctly one of the missions where you are gathering the components of your ship has you go to a colony that the grineer completely wiped out. In a later mission you are sabotaging a weapon that the grineer test on a different colony. If a grineer is pacifist they are immediately executed. they experimented with the infested, basically releasing it and causing an outbreak. These kinds of things really add up to give us the image of how the grineer work while we arent fighting them, showing a cruel oppressive system. 

As for the corpus, they are greedy and focus mainly on war in order to make a profit. this results in different issues, but many of them focused on wiping out the tenno. for one example, Alad V cuts up Warframes in order to make his Zanuka bots, and many other robots and weapons are designed with the tenno's destruction in mind. plus others are willing to do extremely cruel things, like kidnap children and condemn a whole colony of people, in order to make money. 

 

So yeah....they aren't the best group of people in general.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

the Grineer:

- blown up and killed countless people with the destruction of relays.

- killed everyone on Mars

- turned Ceres into a toxic wasteland

- experimented with Infestation (Dr. Tengus)

- desire all non-Grineer to be enslaved or exterminated.

the Corpus:

- financially exploit colonists

- run labour camps (Solaris, in the upcoming Venus map.)

- keep making killer robots.

- experimented with the Infestation (Alad V)

we have reason enough to kill them morally, the loot is what helps seal the deal.

[Mama_Sasha]

To my knowledge, The Grineer being racist to anything that isnt a Grineer (well, maybe other Grineer who may have a different opinion on things), and Corpus, who are greedy for technology, does anything for profit, wich includes disecting that Christmass tree you call Warframe. Thats just the small stuff though from waht my tired mind can remember at this point.

PrimeCypher tho, explains it better than i just did.

But yeah, perhaps in the future we can explore the lore even further, like The Grineer's ultimate past via some flashback memory, or something, same goes with Corpus who might have video footage or something stored in some vault, or whatever. Speculating lot. Me need more coffee to think more. -goes to get coffee like a zombie-

[(PSN)RhinoCharging00]

3 minutes ago, Prof.549 said:

And no one mentions Tenno, who wiped out the entire civilization and continuing to kill everyone in their way 

Tenno, pure in deed and spirit.

[DreadWarlock]

19 minutes ago, Sudzz said:

Besides their bad attitudes i have not really found anything that tells me why the Grineer and the Corpus are so bad. Lotus sometimes says that they are cruel and greedy and pray on the weak and innocent but that doesent tell you much. What are the pasts of the grineer and corpus that makes it fine to plow through thousands of soldiers mercilessly.

and are there future plans for more lore regarding this?

Corpus are not really "bad" or evil, some of their executives are morally corrupt(and evil), But some are quite neutral and maybe good sometimes(all they care is profit and each of them has their own Ideas on how to achieve that). Perrin sequence guy is an example of that, he's an Ex-corpus that left the organization because he wasn't happy about how his boss used his new ideas. There may be some Corpus personnel who are actually fair and do not get involved into anything that warrants the ire of the tenno. After all, Corpus sells their weapons to everyone, they need to show some trust for their costumers(which include Tenno among them)

Grineer are evil because they are programed that way. They are genetically engineered to follow the Twin queens every whim, and they can only think on what is best for their own needs. Good grineer are those who show a defect in this programing.

Edited June 23, 2018 by DreadWarlock

[rapt0rman]

13 minutes ago, DreadWarlock said:

Corpus are not really "bad", some of their executives are morally corrupt, but some are quite neutral and maybe good somtimes. Perrin sequence guy is an example of that.

Grineer are evil because they are programed that way. They are genetically engineered to follow the Twin queens every whim, and they can only think on wha is best for their own needs. Good grineer are those who show a defect in this programing.

Not disagreeing, but there's a reason Ergo Glast and the Perrin Sequence aren't affiliated with the Corpus, the non morally corrupt leave when they can just like the Grineer.

[Braken]

2 hours ago, rapt0rman said:

Not disagreeing, but there's a reason Ergo Glast and the Perrin Sequence aren't affiliated with the Corpus, the non morally corrupt leave when they can just like the Grineer.

Don't forget Darvo, too.

And yeah, the Grineer have plenty of deserters as well. Just look at the Steel Meridian and Clem. Hek, there are even the Ghoul defectors, as well.

Edited June 24, 2018 by Braken

[Archeyef]

The Origin System is a feudal society. When conflict comes up, it doesn't matter who is "good" or "bad." What matters is who is currently fighting alongside you.

[Loza03]

Aside from the excellent points on why the Corpus and Grineer aren't very 'good' people, there is another point.

For the most part, the Tenno aren't heroes. They're a bunch of Anti-heroes on varying levels of the spectrum. Officially, they seek to do good things, but have few qualms or morals about how these things are done. Case and point: You go out to save the innocent lives of Cetus utilising Saryn the walking Bioweapon. And we still ask for rewards afterwards.

[Cmdr-A]

One has to also remember their origins. The grineer are literally cloned workforce builders made by the orokin made to suffer. Reading into some of the synthesis target lores, the grineer rebelled during the orokins downfall because they had enough of the orokins opressiveness and treating them as low as a demihuman as possible. They were disgruntled beings suffering from what they were made as. Having next to no humanity. So it was only a matter of time before they rebelled and banded together and basically orkified everything they could get their hands on. And since grineer weren't that smart to begin with, it'd only be fitting monkey see monkey do. The created does as the creators once did.

The corpus were seemingly smugglers who were in for profit to begin with behind the scenes. Not much is given info about them in synthesis aside one corpus smuggler child working on a robot proxy.

Edited June 24, 2018 by Cmdr-A

[TARINunit9]

4 hours ago, Sudzz said:

What are the pasts of the grineer and corpus that makes it fine to plow through thousands of soldiers mercilessly.

The Grineer have a "everyone who doesn't surrender to us and serve as our slaves is to be shot on sight" policy. So yeah, they're like 95% evil in one sentence. Their Kweens are even worse, and will basically destroy everything in their path to get what they want, brainwashing their soldiers into mindless obedience

The Corpus will do literally anything for money. Take the worst aspects of unrestricted capitalism -- workers paid in worthless company scrip, environmental destruction for natural resources, unfair perpetual debt rates -- and give them guns and private armies. This is before we get to Nef Anyo, who is little more than Charles Ponzi reading off a televangelist's queue cards, except he targets the people who are already poor instead of his rich peers

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

4 hours ago, Sudzz said:

Besides their bad attitudes i have not really found anything that tells me why the Grineer and the Corpus are so bad. Lotus sometimes says that they are cruel and greedy and pray on the weak and innocent but that doesent tell you much. What are the pasts of the grineer and corpus that makes it fine to plow through thousands of soldiers mercilessly.

and are there future plans for more lore regarding this?

Well there are bits and pieces of why they're bad scattered around.  For example if you just listen to grineer chatter on the Liset's radio you can hear them stopping people and detaining them etc.  I would say the average grineer footsoldier isn't inherently evil, rather they only act on the orders of the actually evil Queens - who also have a strong disregard for the Grineer soldiers themselves, treating them as little more than cannon fodder.  Plus you can look further down the rung now with Plains of Eidolon - you can see how the Ostrom are constantly under threat from Grineer oppression.  If it weren't for us, the grineer would just mow them over.   Now imagine how many other colonies face that same reality.

Corpus are alot less evil, and much more morally grey.  They're just capitalists to the core - they're about as evil as you could say most first world nations are in real life.  That said - the Corpus hiearchy is very similar to the Grineer in that the top really craps down on the bottom.  What we know so far about the Venus open world is that it's basically going to be the bottom rung of corpus society... they near-wage slaves who trudge through coolant to get by.  They are an exploitative people - but bad is ambiguous with them.  Some of their actions are clearly bad (Nidus quest) - and others are just perceivably bad.   



 

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

7 hours ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

the Grineer:

- blown up and killed countless people with the destruction of relays.

- killed everyone on Mars

- turned Ceres into a toxic wasteland

- experimented with Infestation (Dr. Tengus)

- desire all non-Grineer to be enslaved or exterminated.

the Corpus:

- financially exploit colonists

- run labour camps (Solaris, in the upcoming Venus map.)

- keep making killer robots.

- experimented with the Infestation (Alad V)

we have reason enough to kill them morally, the loot is what helps seal the deal.

Don't forget the grineer are sort of responsible for waking up hunhow, and they killed off the remaining lower class orokin as they started taking over after the tenno killed the high ranking ones. 

[HollowWitch]

22 hours ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

the Grineer:

- blown up and killed countless people with the destruction of relays.

- killed everyone on Mars

- turned Ceres into a toxic wasteland

- experimented with Infestation (Dr. Tengus)

- desire all non-Grineer to be enslaved or exterminated.

the Corpus:

- financially exploit colonists

- run labour camps (Solaris, in the upcoming Venus map.)

- keep making killer robots.

- experimented with the Infestation (Alad V)

we have reason enough to kill them morally, the loot is what helps seal the deal.

To be fair with the Corpus, experimenting with infestation and trying to take over the system with it was just Alad V.

Edited June 24, 2018 by SeriouslySinister

[(XBOX)Tanta Cinta]

I wouldn’t say all Corpus are bad. You see, it is only the interests of the Board of Directors that stir trouble with the Tenno. Low class Corpus are just civilian merchants with families. 

For the longest of time Alad V has been the main bad guy, until it was decided to make Frohd Behk a villain. I think in the Darvo tactical alert from years ago (Ties that Bind?) Frohd Behk established a firm belief not to mess with the Tenno. Then Operation Ambulas Reborn came around and totally retconned all of Behk’s beliefs. 

As for the Grineer, each and every one of them are bred for war. Their armies ravage the origin system and they exterminate or imprison any non-grineer. 

Think of the Corpus as a group of private investors who just so happen to have a military if stuff hits the fan. That’s just about it, really. So if you treat them nice, they’ll treat you just as equally... until you p*ss them off 😈

Edited June 24, 2018 by (XB1)OTF SERENiTY

[AJ5511]

They ate basically space Nazis

[cghawk]

because the tenno have to look good

[FlusteredFerret]

Personally I like universes where the lines between good and bad are blurred and every faction has their own agenda. Just feels more realistic. I especially like that the purpose of the Tenno (and their controllers) are particularly opaque.

So yeah, I do feel a little remorse when I'm massacring Grineer &Corpus, but also remember they are far from innocent...and probably less innocent than the Tenno.

 

[Blakrana]

The Grineer have no other agenda than the complete, utter subjugation of the system...and the death of anyone and anything that interferes in that agenda. To this end they seek to study a way to cure/prevent cloning decay syndrome, notably by Tyl Regor...but this isn't some public health drive like say, the historic effort to eradicate Smallpox, or the near eradication of Polio. For the Grineer, curing cloning decay means making endless numbers of clones with no lifespan flaws born of faulty organs...all to continue that drive to conquer the system. As we see in Regor's labs, concocting new genetic moulds such as the Manic Bombards which...not really something the system needs to see as the standard Bombard unit.

Sure. For the Tenno, a Manic Bombard is just a slightly warp prone Bombard. For Corpus, or non-affiliated units? Not so simple.

Then there's how the Grineer make a dedicated effort to eliminate any form of dissent; disobedience, even mere questioning of the Queen's and their absolute authority, is met with brutal execution...or thrown into the Rathuum pits and left to fend for themselves there. Defectors are hunted down, as seen by Tyl Regor's pursuit of the Kavor. That Steel Meridian exists at all is a notable testament to the potential the Grineer could have if they weren't being made to have a slavish, absolute devotion to their Queens.

After that you've "Doctor" Tengus who is responsible for re-awakening the Infested in the current era, whilst you've Vay Hek and his Ghouls which are, from what it looks to me, an exploitation of cloning technology to make even more expendable suicide units...all to serve in their onslaught against the Ostrons and Cetus largely because they're there. With the Cicero Toxin, they hoped to destroy Earth's plant life so they could construct yet more factories to feed their war machine, something prevented only by the Tenno. Consider Ceres an image of what Earth would have become, should the Grineer have had their way...the sky choked with toxic haze, water and land clogged with factory run off whilst machines churn out pieces for ever more Fomorian vessels.

And the Queens themselves? They care seemingly nothing for the Grineer at all, viewing them as little more than toys and, if the Worm is indeed serious, food. Viewing arguably their entire empire as little more than what they're perhaps entitled to, having been Orokin even if of lower positioning within that caste. And to maintain their authority, they'll employ Continuity to persist beyond the limits of their bodies...which begs some questions on the fate of civilian children should they fall to Grineer hands.

 

The Corpus by comparison, are a lot more manageable. Whilst they're not averse to force and violence, it's always as part of the calculus for whether it'd make them more money to do so. Granted, they've little qualms on how they go about this otherwise, and as war is a highly profitable venture, anyone is a patron, be it the Tenno or the Grineer; indeed, why only sell arms and means to one side, when giving both sides resources increases your profit margins that much more...and for longer, as it extends the conflict. Nef Anyo preys on the lower classes, a mix of the gullibility and the cultured, fanatical devotion that comes as part of their indoctrination efforts...and willing to accost and kidnap children from innocent colonists purely as part of an elaborate gambling matter. Frohd Bek is mostly quiet, but still willing to finance new war Proxies such as the Hyenas, Ambulas and Razorback because "Grofit"...or something. Well, that and Frohd is probably kind of irritated that Darvo is more favourable to the Tenno than he'd like him to be, wanting Darvo to join him on the Board and the like.

Of course, this means in the name of Profit, they'll throw countless Crewman upon Crewman, Proxy upon Proxy, after a Warframe or other Orokin artefacts, because should they succeed in bringing it down? The sheer money to be made from cutting it to pieces and selling them off far outweighs the lives of those Crewmen...and Proxies are made by the score on their facilities in places like Pluto. Those Crewman don't get dumped into the Void and end up Corrupted by accident, even if they're probably excised from the books if needs be.

And slavery via indentured servitude is still slavery.

To the Corpus' credit however, they at least have a line they won't cross, and that's shown in how Alad V's actions essentially led to him being kicked from the Board of the Directors and now seems to be at best, Persona non Grata. All because aggravating the Tenno is long term bad for business. There's conflict and opposition, but it's somewhat...akin to how I see it in Shadowrun really; whilst officially the corps don't like runners, they will use them for their own ends off the books ergo, I wouldn't be surprised if a good chunk of anti-Corpus information makes it way to the Lotus and Tenno because a given Director or what have you wants to make their competitor sweat a bit. Tenno get to stop/acquire some things to their ends, Corpus probably makes bank as a result regardless of success.

However, there is one thing that the Corpus and Grineer both have going for them at least; they both are more than willing to outright request Tenno assistance and enter into some manner of "bigger fish" whenever an Infestation Outbreak kicks off. Be it money, profit or whatever...nobody wants to become a shambling meat monstrosity, leading to some...strange bedfellow moments. Shown especially clearly in the system wide resistance to the Mutalist Incursion events.

Any rate, apologies for going on, as always.

[DjKaplis]

16 minutes ago, Blakrana said:

The Grineer have no other agenda than the complete, utter subjugation of the system...and the death of anyone and anything that interferes in that agenda. To this end they seek to study a way to cure/prevent cloning decay syndrome, notably by Tyl Regor...but this isn't some public health drive like say, the historic effort to eradicate Smallpox, or the near eradication of Polio. For the Grineer, curing cloning decay means making endless numbers of clones with no lifespan flaws born of faulty organs...all to continue that drive to conquer the system. As we see in Regor's labs, concocting new genetic moulds such as the Manic Bombards which...not really something the system needs to see as the standard Bombard unit.

Sure. For the Tenno, a Manic Bombard is just a slightly warp prone Bombard. For Corpus, or non-affiliated units? Not so simple.

Then there's how the Grineer make a dedicated effort to eliminate any form of dissent; disobedience, even mere questioning of the Queen's and their absolute authority, is met with brutal execution...or thrown into the Rathuum pits and left to fend for themselves there. Defectors are hunted down, as seen by Tyl Regor's pursuit of the Kavor. That Steel Meridian exists at all is a notable testament to the potential the Grineer could have if they weren't being made to have a slavish, absolute devotion to their Queens.

After that you've "Doctor" Tengus who is responsible for re-awakening the Infested in the current era, whilst you've Vay Hek and his Ghouls which are, from what it looks to me, an exploitation of cloning technology to make even more expendable suicide units...all to serve in their onslaught against the Ostrons and Cetus largely because they're there. With the Cicero Toxin, they hoped to destroy Earth's plant life so they could construct yet more factories to feed their war machine, something prevented only by the Tenno. Consider Ceres an image of what Earth would have become, should the Grineer have had their way...the sky choked with toxic haze, water and land clogged with factory run off whilst machines churn out pieces for ever more Fomorian vessels.

And the Queens themselves? They care seemingly nothing for the Grineer at all, viewing them as little more than toys and, if the Worm is indeed serious, food. Viewing arguably their entire empire as little more than what they're perhaps entitled to, having been Orokin even if of lower positioning within that caste. And to maintain their authority, they'll employ Continuity to persist beyond the limits of their bodies...which begs some questions on the fate of civilian children should they fall to Grineer hands.

 

The Corpus by comparison, are a lot more manageable. Whilst they're not averse to force and violence, it's always as part of the calculus for whether it'd make them more money to do so. Granted, they've little qualms on how they go about this otherwise, and as war is a highly profitable venture, anyone is a patron, be it the Tenno or the Grineer; indeed, why only sell arms and means to one side, when giving both sides resources increases your profit margins that much more...and for longer, as it extends the conflict. Nef Anyo preys on the lower classes, a mix of the gullibility and the cultured, fanatical devotion that comes as part of their indoctrination efforts...and willing to accost and kidnap children from innocent colonists purely as part of an elaborate gambling matter. Frohd Bek is mostly quiet, but still willing to finance new war Proxies such as the Hyenas, Ambulas and Razorback because "Grofit"...or something. Well, that and Frohd is probably kind of irritated that Darvo is more favourable to the Tenno than he'd like him to be, wanting Darvo to join him on the Board and the like.

Of course, this means in the name of Profit, they'll throw countless Crewman upon Crewman, Proxy upon Proxy, after a Warframe or other Orokin artefacts, because should they succeed in bringing it down? The sheer money to be made from cutting it to pieces and selling them off far outweighs the lives of those Crewmen...and Proxies are made by the score on their facilities in places like Pluto. Those Crewman don't get dumped into the Void and end up Corrupted by accident, even if they're probably excised from the books if needs be.

And slavery via indentured servitude is still slavery.

To the Corpus' credit however, they at least have a line they won't cross, and that's shown in how Alad V's actions essentially led to him being kicked from the Board of the Directors and now seems to be at best, Persona non Grata. All because aggravating the Tenno is long term bad for business. There's conflict and opposition, but it's somewhat...akin to how I see it in Shadowrun really; whilst officially the corps don't like runners, they will use them for their own ends off the books ergo, I wouldn't be surprised if a good chunk of anti-Corpus information makes it way to the Lotus and Tenno because a given Director or what have you wants to make their competitor sweat a bit. Tenno get to stop/acquire some things to their ends, Corpus probably makes bank as a result regardless of success.

However, there is one thing that the Corpus and Grineer both have going for them at least; they both are more than willing to outright request Tenno assistance and enter into some manner of "bigger fish" whenever an Infestation Outbreak kicks off. Be it money, profit or whatever...nobody wants to become a shambling meat monstrosity, leading to some...strange bedfellow moments. Shown especially clearly in the system wide resistance to the Mutalist Incursion events.

Any rate, apologies for going on, as always.

Wow, this was just awesome explanation.

[Guest]

Actually, because the game simply needs killable factions for the Tenno to commit mass genocide on.

I mean, it's a shooter, there has to be a bad guy for you to shoot.

[Mints]

35 minutes ago, Blakrana said:

And slavery via indentured servitude is still slavery.

Oh my friend it is so much worse than that. The Detron Crewman's codex entry states that the Crewman project was designed by an Archimedian who was executed by the Orokin Council. Crewmen themselves are very heavily implied to be a genetically inferior serf caste, presumably intended to be used to cross the Void to Tau. This project was rejected and its creator was executed by the jade light, much like Margulis. At some point it appears that the Corpus got a hold of the project and now they use the Crewmen as their rank and file. How they are created seems to be distinct from the Grineer's method of tube gestation. But what's clear is that they are not made or intended to go far in life.

Now, this is all just speculation: When Nef Anyo claims to have been a simple Crewman and made it to where he is naturally, he is a liar. Many real life corporations dangle the idea of advancement over their lesser employees without there being any real possibility thereof. Anyo himself sells his religion, and thus rakes in tons of cash, by selling false hope to the Crewmen who don't know any better. He's a fraud and a scam artist, even moreso than Frohd Bek. The simple truth is that Crewmen and their children are eternally doomed to wage slavery under a corporatocratic theocracy that doesn't care about them. Crewmen are, in a literal sense, human resources.

Edited June 24, 2018 by Mints