Limbo's Cataclysm is pretty weird, actually absurd

[WeoroldWuldor]

We can't hit any enemies inside the bubble unless we are also inside it. Technically, when we shoot an enemy with a gun from outside of the bubble, the bullet fired from the gun actually enters the bubble and so it also becomes a part of that dimension. So we must be able to shoot them. But we can't do it at the moment. This is just nonsense.

But it can be somehow sensible if they make an official announcement or release an update related to this nonsense.

Edit: I know that this is a game, and not everything has to be logical. But the truth is, these kinds of absurd things make the game less convincing and fun for me.

Edit 2: We've just found out that Frost also has an issue like that. It seems like it will never end if we keep digging their logical status. But actually, it didn't bother me as much as Limbo's Cataclysm did probably because of former's level of absurdity. I may create a list of abilities with their illogical points in the future. Just for fun.

Edited June 24, 2018 by -_-DaRXoS-_-

[Mints]

How about you try being in the rift while shooting into cataclysm?

[WeoroldWuldor]

1 minute ago, Mints said:

How about you try being in the rift while shooting into cataclysm?

The problem is not something I cannot do, I already know that I can shoot them when I'm in the rift. I just cannot give meaning to all these.

I'm just trying to stress its illogical point when looked technically.

Edited June 24, 2018 by -_-DaRXoS-_-

[Midrib]

So you're saying that a SciFi game, is logically flawed?

[--Q--XFA]

5 minutes ago, -_-DaRXoS-_- said:

We can't hit any enemies inside the bubble unless we are also inside it.

It has been that way for years

[WeoroldWuldor]

1 minute ago, --Q--XFA said:

It has been that way for years

It is, but I've just realised. And now my already existed hate of limbo, has become more intense.

[Marekthejester]

From a logical perspective, what you say is right. From a gameplay perspective, a logically accurate cataclysm wouldn't make sense. If the bullet from outside can hit inside the cataclysm and vice versa, than what's even the point of the skill besides adding some fancy effect ?

[(XBOX)Evilpricetag]

6 minutes ago, -_-DaRXoS-_- said:

It is, but I've just realised. And now my already existed hate of limbo, has become more intense.

It's a different plain of existence, you can shoot things on the other side of the bubble, or within the rift, cataclysm is a rip in the material world opening up the rift within just a pocket of space.

[--Q--XFA]

 

10 minutes ago, -_-DaRXoS-_- said:

It is, but I've just realised. And now my already existed hate of limbo, has become more intense.

lol, i'm the opposite. Now I can bare those annoyingly large cataclysm because I can shoot with an active stasis.

[YUNoJump]

It's a functional thing. If you could shoot into Cataclysm then Limbo would be even more broken OP than he is now. It's for the same reason that you can't shoot into Snow Globe; so you have to engage the enemies around the defensive area, rather than just sitting on a perch and firing a Lenz in from 200m away. Hell, you're essentially invincible inside a Stasis/Cataclysm anyway, as enemy bullets don't matter either, so there's very few actual problems being caused.

[Whooohooo]

if by logic then yes... bullet should enter rift like other enemies

but  you can't interact with console in cata so i think cata only work for living thing

[WeoroldWuldor]

6 minutes ago, Whooohooo said:

if by logic then yes... bullet should enter rift like other enemies

but  you can't interact with console in cata so i think cata only work for living thing

If that was true, a bullet already inside of the bubble couldn't hit an enemy inside of the bubble. Because bullets are not alive.

Edited June 24, 2018 by -_-DaRXoS-_-

[(PSN)watt4hem]

Then beam weapons should also be able to cross plains, since they consists of photon, and we can see stuff in the rift, meaning light does pass through.

Problem is, it's not fun as a game.

[WeoroldWuldor]

13 minutes ago, YUNoJump said:

It's a functional thing. If you could shoot into Cataclysm then Limbo would be even more broken OP than he is now. It's for the same reason that you can't shoot into Snow Globe; so you have to engage the enemies around the defensive area, rather than just sitting on a perch and firing a Lenz in from 200m away. Hell, you're essentially invincible inside a Stasis/Cataclysm anyway, as enemy bullets don't matter either, so there's very few actual problems being caused.

This is true that limbo would be completely useless if that skill was not against these logical bases, but the point you misunderstand is that we have to make this skill logical. This is not true. This is not the only option, I want the DE to find another skill for him or create a description based on logical basics to describe this skill so that we can give it a meaning and love him again.

[cghawk]

not everything has to be logical, if you don't like stuff not following logic I suggest not playing a sci-fi game

[(PSN)watt4hem]

5 minutes ago, cghawk said:

not everything has to be logical, if you don't like stuff not following logic I suggest not playing a sci-fi game

I kinda get where op's coming from. The world may be fictional but it still has its own set of rules. Much like a fantasy setting still has rules on what can do what.

But if we follow logic then ember would be underwhelming af, nidus, mag, limbo would be op beyond balance.

[Madway7]

Seems like that logic would have to apply to the enemies too making cataclysm worse off.

[hellodownthere]

On 2018-06-24 at 11:06 PM, -_-DaRXoS-_- said:

We can't hit any enemies inside the bubble unless we are also inside it. Technically, when we shoot an enemy with a gun from outside of a bubble, the bullet fired from the gun actually enters the bubble and so it also becomes a part of that dimension. So we must be able to shoot them. But we can't do it at the moment. This is just nonsense.

But it can be somehow sensible if they make an official announcement or release an update related to this nonsense.

Edit: I know that this is a game, and not everything has to be logical. But the truth is, these kinds of absurd things make the game less convincing and fun for me.

you don't have to be in your 4 to hit the mobs that are in your 4. place your 4 then press shift, no need to go into your 4 at all. I mean it isn't that absurd

 

Edited June 27, 2018 by hellodownthere
think i forgot the F in shift thus the word got censored

[PsiWarp]

The Void Magician has his ways.

[Maqabir]

How is this any different from Frost's globes?

I'm just happy we can only place one Cataclysm.

[Xaxma]

The logic I see here is that perhaps the entire presence of the being doing the shooting or hitting must "pass through" the Rift dimension in order to interact with those inside of it. Simply throwing or launching projectiles or objects inside isn't enough; maybe Limbo's Rift is capable of discriminating this difference? It's currently unknown what exactly is the Rift's property and what its function even serves other than being Limbo's pocket dimension. 

However, the annoying part to me is that enemies on the very edge of the bubble will fidget and stutter around on the outside as they attempt to close the gap with you as Cataclysm continues to shrink, making it rather difficult to place shots on them because they're constantly shifting between normal and "Rifted", moving and unmoving. 

Maybe this issue could be solved if enemies were not time stopped instantly when they go inside but halted to a stand-still over like 0.5 seconds, as if they were hitting a cold-proc, and then they stopped fully so they have time to submerge within the bubble? I don't know. I really like Limbo, but I think he could use some more QoL tweaks like this so he's less annoying to use. The augment is a band-aid to this "bug." I wouldn't call it a bug, just neglectful design.

Edited June 24, 2018 by Xaxma

[Hawkesjax]

 

2 hours ago, -_-DaRXoS-_- said:

-snip- Technically, when we shoot an enemy with a gun from outside of a bubble, the bullet fired from the gun actually enters the bubble and so it also becomes a part of that dimension -snip-

I think when you start by assuming the bullets "enter" the bubble, it eminently construct a logic that the bubble share the same plane of existence as the region outside the bubble. Hence from that perspective, it is of course illogical that we can't hit the enemies inside the bubble.

But what if the concept of bubble is that, it exists on other plane. When we shoot a bullet through the bubble, the bullet 'passes' through the bubble and emerges on the other side of the bubble, however never actually entering the bubble. Our bullet remained in our plane of existence throughout its flight path. Likewise, anything in the other plane (within the bubble) trying to shoot "outside" where we are, their bullet never actually crossed the plane of existence, hence the bullet will hit the wall which exists, but not in our plane.

At least from this point of view, i don't find it illogical. The photon argument is sound however, that is an acute observation! Kudos to your sir!

1 hour ago, (PS4)watt4hem said:

Then beam weapons should also be able to cross plains, since they consists of photon, and we can see stuff in the rift, meaning light does pass through.

Problem is, it's not fun as a game.

 

Edited June 24, 2018 by Hawkesjax

[Streaky_Haddock]

I know it doesn't make a lot of sense, but you can shoot through Limbo's cataclysm in a way you can't with frost's bubble, allowing you to shoot people far across the other side of the room even if the cataclysm is in the way so long as you're both in the same plane. In addition you can jump into the rift and shoot into the bubble, hitting anyone inside incase that's an issue. When it comes to the flickering in/out of the rift at the edge of a shrinking cataclysm, rift torrent can make things much more simple in that regard.

[WeoroldWuldor]

2 hours ago, Maqabir said:

How is this any different from Frost's globes?

I'm just happy we can only place one Cataclysm.

Frost's globes are physical things whereas Limbo's cataclysm is a multi-dimensional globe. Their only likeness is both of them are globes. I've never said anything related to making Cataclysm able to be cast multiple times. 
I don't see anything wrong with Frost's globes by the way.

2 hours ago, Hawkesjax said:

At least from this point of view, i don't find it illogical. The photon argument is sound however, that is an acute observation! Kudos to your sir!

Yeah, this is very accurate hit. Reaches the same end with where I want to lead you to.

 

2 hours ago, PsiWarp said:

The Void Magician has his ways.

Or is he a cheater? I don't like cheaters. (I mean if he doesn't have any logical explanations about his cataclysm)

 

4 hours ago, Midrib said:

So you're saying that a SciFi game, is logically flawed?

 

If you look closely enough, you'll see that Sci-Fi things have their own logical rules/basics inside. And the problem I stressed here, is that Cataclysm is conflicting with the logical rules the game created for itself. Logical rules like "void power", "tenno", "Warframes" and "infection" etc. these are unquestionable. But Cataclysm is questionable. 

Edited June 24, 2018 by -_-DaRXoS-_-

[CoolDudeMcCool]

Can't you shoot out of Frost's globe and not into it? If you're fine with Frost's globe despite that not making sense, you should be fine with Cataclysm.