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Loki buff at some point plz?!?


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5 hours ago, (PS4)Tactless_Ninja said:

Don't feed me this bs. He could work very well in combat scenarios in addition to his current steal weapon/hide gameplay loop. All frame with a cc option also have a debuff to enemy defense whether its a hit to armor or shields or health. Loki has no such benefit to his kit. 

Loki permanently prevents almost all enemies from doing damage to any player at range. This is far more important than dealing a little damage, and is an actual debuff. Tip: Damaging an enemy is not a debuff. It's damage. Loki outright removes something like 70% of the serious threats in high level content from the table if played right.

32 minutes ago, (XB1)Angryspy101 said:

I think Loki is in a "Usable" spot in Warframe's current state.

He's purely a CC frame in a game that encourages you to use DPS frames because clearing groups of enemies is far more beneficial than CCing them.

Let's be honest here, why would you use Loki over Ash, Ivara, and Octavia anywhere but certain spy missions? These frames can go invisible and easily complete other missions more efficiently than him because killing enemies is more Versatile and offers more benefits than just simply disarming/CCing them.

What's worse is that unless DE gives Loki Limbo's level of CC, I don't expect to ever see this frame anywhere but spy missions no matter how many tweaks they give him.

But if you're ok with a frame that has two mediocre abilities with 3 augments no one uses seriously and a joke of a passive just because he can be go invis and do weak CC than yea

He's fine.

 

Hold up, there's a couple things wrong here:

1. Warframe encourages the use of CC frames in all content that can't be trivially cleared by literally anything. Nuke and DPS abilities are irrelevant in high level content if they don't have infinite scaling damage or useful CC attached. High level content is 100% about using frame abilities which avoid or negate damage: self-buffs like Iron Skin, invisibility, &c., and CC which in one way or another prevents enemies from reaching, targeting, or hitting you and your cell.

2. Radial Disarm, if built for, is still one of the best CC abilities in the game because it completely negates all ranged damage from 95%+ of enemies with infinite duration. Even a nullifier bubble sweeping over disarmed targets won't undo it. With a half-decent build you can permanently remove all ranged damage from all targets in a 55m+ radius and set them all to fighting each other for 12s with a guaranteed rad proc, and still have decent stealth. It's one of the very few true infinite scaling CC abilities in the game because it is completely unaffected by enemy level: they could be level 1 or level 500, but they're still disarmed forever, whereas with most CC you tend to reach a point where you can't kill things before the duration runs out.

If you think RD is weak you're deluded, bluntly put.

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After rereading OP, seems like he wants a survivability & damage buff. He wants 1, 2 and 4 to last longer, & 3 to have a finisher. 

After learning Mirage, I realized that some frames have this keep it turned on playstyle. She keeps 1,2 on for survivability and use 3,4 accordingly.

Isn’t it the same for Loki tho? Keep his 1,2 or 4 on with a high efficiency build? 

Someone also taught me his passive wall latch can combo with his switch teleport, meaning you can drop targets off the map. Bursas in Razorback assassination for example. 

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I think invisibility should last until you bump an enemy or a damage source, or make too much noise. A noise meter or something where if it gets filled enemies will notice you no matter how invisible you are. 

Feel free to use my idea and echo it beyond the hills. 

Edited by CupcakesMoo
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21 minutes ago, FlyingDice said:

Loki permanently prevents almost all enemies from doing damage to any player at range. This is far more important than dealing a little damage, and is an actual debuff. Tip: Damaging an enemy is not a debuff. It's damage. Loki outright removes something like 70% of the serious threats in high level content from the table if played right.

Hold up, there's a couple things wrong here:

1. Warframe encourages the use of CC frames in all content that can't be trivially cleared by literally anything. Nuke and DPS abilities are irrelevant in high level content if they don't have infinite scaling damage or useful CC attached. High level content is 100% about using frame abilities which avoid or negate damage: self-buffs like Iron Skin, invisibility, &c., and CC which in one way or another prevents enemies from reaching, targeting, or hitting you and your cell.

2. Radial Disarm, if built for, is still one of the best CC abilities in the game because it completely negates all ranged damage from 95%+ of enemies with infinite duration. Even a nullifier bubble sweeping over disarmed targets won't undo it. With a half-decent build you can permanently remove all ranged damage from all targets in a 55m+ radius and set them all to fighting each other for 12s with a guaranteed rad proc, and still have decent stealth. It's one of the very few true infinite scaling CC abilities in the game because it is completely unaffected by enemy level: they could be level 1 or level 500, but they're still disarmed forever, whereas with most CC you tend to reach a point where you can't kill things before the duration runs out.

If you think RD is weak you're deluded, bluntly put.

high level content doesnt exist everything in the game can be one shot by the right weapon and if you want to live just take a cc frame that can damage and do cc now again im not asking for damage to his kit just read the post and tell me what you think is unreasonable about what i suggested.

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19 minutes ago, (PS4)Chel-El said:

After rereading OP, seems like he wants a survivability & damage buff. He wants 1, 2 and 4 to last longer, & 3 to have a finisher. 

After learning Mirage, I realized that some frames have this keep it turned on playstyle. She keeps 1,2 on for survivability and use 3,4 accordingly.

Isn’t it the same for Loki tho? Keep his 1,2 or 4 on with a high efficiency build? 

Someone also taught me his passive wall latch can combo with his switch teleport, meaning you can drop targets off the map. Bursas in Razorback assassination for example. 

where did i ask for damage and his four already last forever and i only asked for a duration buff on his two.

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5 minutes ago, S.Dust said:

where did i ask for damage and his four already last forever and i only asked for a duration buff on his two.

OP did ask for a teleport finisher, so I interpreted that as a dmg buff 

And for decoy and invis to last longer, so I lumped both as survivability buff 

 

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1 minute ago, (PS4)Chel-El said:

OP did ask for a teleport finisher, so I interpreted that as a dmg buff 

And for decoy and invis to last longer, so I lumped both as survivability buff 

 

oh ok i can accept that also i am Op

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5 minutes ago, FlyingDice said:

Warframe encourages the use of CC frames in all content that can't be trivially cleared by literally anything. 

So basically just mobile defense & spy missions, these two missions don't require any form of killing.

6 minutes ago, FlyingDice said:

Nuke and DPS abilities are irrelevant in high level content if they don't have infinite scaling damage or useful CC attached. High level content is 100% about using frame abilities which avoid or negate damage: self-buffs like Iron Skin, invisibility, &c., and CC which in one way or another prevents enemies from reaching, targeting, or hitting you and your cell.

Hold on there Cowboy, the highest level any player will face occasionally is level 100 content which most if not all DPS frames can easily handle.

Also you're right, high levels do require self sustain abilities, but that definitely isn't 100% of what it's about because than Wukong would be the best frame in the game. You still need damage to get the job done efficiently. 

14 minutes ago, FlyingDice said:

Radial Disarm, if built for, is still one of the best CC abilities in the game because it completely negates all ranged damage from 95%+ of enemies with infinite duration. Even a nullifier bubble sweeping over disarmed targets won't undo it. With a half-decent build you can permanently remove all ranged damage from all targets in a 55m+ radius and set them all to fighting each other for 12s with a guaranteed rad proc, and still have decent stealth. It's one of the very few true infinite scaling CC abilities in the game because it is completely unaffected by enemy level: they could be level 1 or level 500, but they're still disarmed forever, whereas with most CC you tend to reach a point where you can't kill things before the duration runs out.

If you think RD is weak you're deluded, bluntly put.

I called RD weak CC because it's just a simply "disarm", we have a lot CC abilities that completely incapacitate enemies from moving/attacking in general and it's not hard to recast these abilities either. Also enemies hit with the initial cast are disarm but more enemies will constantly spawn which would require Loki to have to cast RD occasionally in order to protect his squad/objective from ranged damage assuming your squad is actually killing stuff. It also needs to be noted that disarmed and radianted enemies can and will attack allies/objectives when given the chance, so infinite duration doesn't matter if enemies can still potentially kill you or die and spawn with guns again.

Its like saying that switching a crazy murderer's gun for a knife is better than just locking him up. Better yet just give em the death sentence with scaling damage frames like Equinox, Saryn, Octavia, Ash etc.

 

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27 minutes ago, S.Dust said:

where did i ask for damage and his four already last forever and i only asked for a duration buff on his two.

No.

32 Seconds is MORE than enough invis / near god-mode time. Not to mention you get an insane melee dmg buff while invisible.

If you can't find a little wall to hide behind for less than a second to press the "2" key again, then it's your issue, not the frame's.

 

PS - The only thing I would like "buffed" on Loki is to make his 1 relevant. It's a light reflection and supposed to "distract" the enemy, but for some reason, it both doesn't even scale and is pretty much OHK...by bullets...while everyone and everything can walk right through it (Logic / 10).

Edited by Prime-Ares
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I’ll take Loki to Sanctuary Onslaught. That mode weeds out the impurities in your build and playstyle.

Once I took Nyx and Volt there, I knew how to be quick & efficient with their abilities.

Over there, you need to create a good ability loop. Mistakes are costly, even mods I thought were necessary got chopped off.  

Edited by (PS4)Chel-El
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23 minutes ago, Prime-Ares said:

No.

32 Seconds is MORE than enough invis / near god-mode time. Not to mention you get an insane melee dmg buff while invisible.

If you can't find a little wall to hide behind for less than a second to press the "2" key again, then it's your issue, not the frame's.

 

PS - The only thing I would like "buffed" on Loki is to make his 1 relevant. It's a light reflection and supposed to "distract" the enemy, but for some reason, it both doesn't even scale and is pretty much OHK...by bullets...while everyone and everything can walk right through it (Logic / 10).

what mods are you using to get 32 seconds and how is your range looking with that set up?

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2 hours ago, CupcakesMoo said:

How I play Loki:

1. Buff for strength and speed. 

2. Parkour through spy missions because stealth abilities are useless. 

3. Play zephyr instead. 

4. ???

5. LL3IkuY.gif

"stealth abilities are useless" Top kek

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7 hours ago, (PS4)Tactless_Ninja said:

Don't feed me this bs. He could work very well in combat scenarios in addition to his current steal weapon/hide gameplay loop. All frame with a cc option also have a debuff to enemy defense whether its a hit to armor or shields or health. Loki has no such benefit to his kit. 

Oh so you want to forgo the uniqueness of the frames for a hegemonic bland kit. Then no!

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1 hour ago, S.Dust said:

what mods are you using to get 32 seconds and how is your range looking with that set up?

3W0a2Y7.jpg

You can tweak this for more range if you really need it. My disarm/range build is completely different though. Personally I like a speedy silent Loki

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19 hours ago, S.Dust said:

i see a common theme of people thinking DE will butcher loki if they touch him

probably because it's true.. originally I would have agreed, but a LOT of bad Loki players have come my way since then, and I still haven't found a good one. now i think he could use a couple of changes.

his invisibility should stay, but I don't think his entire kit should revolve around it. it's pretty much all you can use with Loki on a regular basis, as his other powers are quite situational. I'd definitely do something with Decoy, firstly making it so that strength doesn't affect the Decoy's health (because nobody mods Loki for Strength: he has no damage powers). Switch Teleport is too situational IMO. I'd like a new power, maybe one where you take on the appearance of the last human enemy you killed and fool enemies into thinking you're an ally. just something a bit different.

I may get hated for it, but that's my opinion, and if the Loki "master race" want to change my mind, they can start by not getting killed every time their invis runs out.

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7 hours ago, S.Dust said:

the moment he leaves stealth he dies he's so weak he relies on that ability to not get shot a couple times and then die. Also people for some reason think invisbility is always needed for stealth when in reality nothing matters till you get to the vault and if you've played long enough you know the shortcuts and can do it with any frame, and even if that cant be agreed on ivara wins in spy mission and if you say well ivara takes a while to get when you get her she wins and if you say she's too slow well i alreay said nothing matters till you get to the spy vault. As far as rescue missions i think its just the fact that loki is a fast frame i dont think people are using hime for his abilities in there because most of the time in game all you do is release the hostage and everyone speed runs to the exit to not give it a chance to die.

Obviously it can be done with any frame but its easier with loki. It has always been a popular choice for spy and rescue denying  that is your denial not mine.

and why just compare to Ivara , might as well go to octavia.

Stealth needs a nerf across the board. its silly you can remain the entire mission in stealth irrelevant of enemy levels and not even be damaged the entire time unless of-course you go rambo . If you do that then you have some leverage to demand loki gets buffs . Otherwise ...nah

Edited by JDxBarracka
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