(MY IDEA) Ash Prime Rework

[Sooroark]

Ash Prime/Ash really need a Rework 

First:his Shuriken could give a random status with different sounds for each status of his Shuriken

Second:The Smoke Screen needs to have two more seconds per standard, for the ash has a good invisible time and a good efficiency

Third:Teleport needs to be free for example: you press the 3 and a mark appears that you move to place that you want to teleport but he can only teleport to a place in a reach x of the skill

Fourth:now the most difficult to change, his fourth ability, he has to have a scaled damage for example: damage that you cause in the enemy, x or x% of this damage has  to be stored for a next target and so on, also in the corner could have a the same mark of Saryn. Still speaking about his fourth ability, this should have an area of x meters q in the view of the ash it is marked instantly the 3 markings, in the rest of the area of his fourth ability he marks normally

All the changes were discussed and made in the group of Warframe Brasil 

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

Only change Ash truly needs is his teleport being free-aim, other than that he's fine as-is.

Edit: laugh all you want, but it's true. 🙂

Edited June 28, 2018 by (XB1)Angryspy101

[(PSN)kingbrown2012]

7 hours ago, Sooroark said:

Ash Prime/Ash really need a Rework 

First:his Shuriken could give a random status with different sounds for each status of his Shuriken

Second:The Smoke Screen needs to have two more seconds per standard, for the ash has a good invisible time and a good efficiency

Third:Teleport needs to be free for example: you press the 3 and a mark appears that you move to place that you want to teleport but he can only teleport to a place in a reach x of the skill

Fourth:now the most difficult to change, his fourth ability, he has to have a scaled damage for example: damage that you cause in the enemy, x or x% of this damage has  to be stored for a next target and so on, also in the corner could have a the same mark of Saryn. Still speaking about his fourth ability, this should have an area of x meters q in the view of the ash it is marked instantly the 3 markings, in the rest of the area of his fourth ability he marks normally

All the changes were discussed and made in the group of Warframe Brasil 

Try bladestorm with venka  prime and with a body count, drifting contact, and whatever other mod that increases combo counter duration 

[DjKaplis]

Well not likely that Ash will get any reworks anytime soon. And I think that's a good thing as he right now is one of the strongest warframes in game especially in terms of  assasinating high priority targets.

[Sooroark]

11 hours ago, (XB1)Angryspy101 said:

Only change Ash truly needs is his teleport being free-aim, other than that he's fine as-is IMO.

12 hours ago, Sooroark said:

Ash Prime/Ash really need a Rework 

First:his Shuriken could give a random status with different sounds for each status of his Shuriken

Second:The Smoke Screen needs to have two more seconds per standard, for the ash has a good invisible time and a good efficiency

Third:Teleport needs to be free for example: you press the 3 and a mark appears that you move to place that you want to teleport but he can only teleport to a place in a reach x of the skill

Fourth:now the most difficult to change, his fourth ability, he has to have a scaled damage for example: damage that you cause in the enemy, x or x% of this damage has  to be stored for a next target and so on, also in the corner could have a the same mark of Saryn. Still speaking about his fourth ability, this should have an area of x meters q in the view of the ash it is marked instantly the 3 markings, in the rest of the area of his fourth ability he marks normally

All the changes were discussed and made in the group of Warframe Brasil 

Man Single Target dont work in this game 

with venka prime he is better but not enough for a good end game and the blade storm need to be more practical keep looking it's boring so whoever the ash is not good 

[Sooroark]

3 hours ago, DjKaplis said:

Well not likely that Ash will get any reworks anytime soon. And I think that's a good thing as he right now is one of the strongest warframes in game especially in terms of  assasinating high priority targets.

Man if he is one of the strongest warframes in the game why nobody use he ??? because he is SINGLE TARGET. everyone use saryn beacuse she is multi target and she is strong,thats what i need for ash. well its very boring to look at targets, to mark the targets, for me had to have a part of the range of Blade Storm has to have automatic marking of the 3 points is one of the things that has to be changed in it because no one else uses he beause he is boring 

 

Edited June 28, 2018 by Sooroark

[Sooroark]

5 hours ago, (PS4)kingbrown2012 said:

Try bladestorm with venka  prime and with a body count, drifting contact, and whatever other mod that increases combo counter duration 

ok its better but we need something more practice for him, he needs a damage scaled by percentage or standard damage, he is the hardest character to play in the game so he needs to be good 

[SixDimensions]

Could Ash use some attention? Sure. Is he the hardest frame to use or a terrible frame? Hardly. He's become one of my more used frames as of late 

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

5 minutes ago, Sooroark said:

Man if he is one of the strongest warframes in the game why nobody use he ??? because he is SINGLE TARGET. everyone use saryn beacuse she is multi target and she is strong,thats what i need for ash. well its very boring to look at targets, to mark the targets, for me had to have a part of the range of Blade Storm has to have automatic marking of the 3 points is one of the things that has to be changed in it because no one else uses he beause he is boring 

 

Finisher damage and bleed procs (also finisher) are the most powerful type in the game. You don't see as many of him because he's difficult to get and is meant primarily for high level content. Aside from Saryn, who is stupidly overpowered, Ash keeps one-shotting enemies long after other frame damage dies off. The solution should never be to make him more powerful to match Saryn. The solution should be to pull the battery out of that corrosive energizer bunny.

Use his Shurikens to bleed trash enemies to death.

Use Smokescreen for survival, cost reduction to BS and bonus melee damage.

Use Teleport (especially with the augment) for priority target elimination.

Use Bladestorm for clearing groups while you continue to use your weapons on other groups. I can't stress this enough, but your damage goes through the roof when you stop expecting your clones to do all the work while you paint your nails.

I have over 1500 hours in this game, and most of them with Ash as my main. He does need some QoL adjustments, but he's not in a bad place compared to any other time in his life. The only issue is that Saryn, in her current state, makes him and most other frames obsolete by allowing every one to ignore armor for all enemies, all the time.

[Nazrethim]

hace 11 horas, (XB1)Angryspy101 dijo:

Only change Ash truly needs is his teleport being free-aim, other than that he's fine as-is.

Edit: laugh all you want, but it's true. 🙂

Also separating Teleport from Blade Storm.

 

hace 3 horas, DjKaplis dijo:

 he right now is one of the strongest warframes in game especially in terms of  assasinating high priority targets.

Too bad the game actually doesn't care about high priority targets, instead focusing on wiping horde after horde after horde. And the only high priority targets (ie: bosses or assassins) are either highly resistant or flat out inmune to Ash's abilities.

 

A better alternative: an actual rework.

Since Shuriken and Blade Storm overlap as high damage ranged attack that causes bleed. Why not make Blade Storm an Exalted Ability focused on Finishers, and while it's active casting Shuriken instead sends 2-3 clones to random enemies closer to your reticle, effectively turning Shuriken into a lesser version of current Blade storm. They have almost the same cost anyway so it wouldn't need any change.

Another interaction could be instead of invisibility reducing cost (and making the reduced cost the default) make Clones sent invisible, so you don't actually alert witnesses of your location by sending clones.

Third. Teleport with Free aim, that causes enemies in a small radius to be staggered and open to finishers, and the augment just giving a 5s buff that restores 50% of teleport's cost if an enemy is executed with a finisher before the buffs wears off. But keep current function when in Blade Storm exalted mode, making Finisher attacks summon clones to finish nearby enemies, thus synergizing with Teleport.

Fourth: Augments. Specifically Rising Storm, which has been useless since it's interaction with Body Count and Drifting Contact was removed for no reason. Just make it a flat 10s +increases combo build (so Body Count+Venka Prime passive baked into a single augment) that works when it's on exalted mode.

[Nazrethim]

Justo ahora, (PS4)Riko_113 dijo:

Use Teleport (especially with the augment) for priority target elimination.

Use Bladestorm for clearing groups while you continue to use your weapons on other groups. I can't stress this enough, but your damage goes through the roof when you stop expecting your clones to do all the work while you paint your nails.

Except that when BS is on execution, Teleport becomes unusable for priority target elimination, because instead of performing a oneshot capable finisher you do a Blade storm attack that deals a fraction of the damage. And if you marked enough targets you get tangled into cutscene again. Why isn't the join in function on the BS key instead?!

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

46 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

 

Yes, these are awesome. Much better rework than the OP suggestion since it involves understanding of how Ash works. I still don't like that Shuriken is less efficient than BS currently unless you use the augment, and even then you give up a mod slot to do more of what his entire kit already does.

45 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Except that when BS is on execution, Teleport becomes unusable for priority target elimination, because instead of performing a oneshot capable finisher you do a Blade storm attack that deals a fraction of the damage. And if you marked enough targets you get tangled into cutscene again. Why isn't the join in function on the BS key instead?!

True. BS button doesn't do anything while it's active so it could easily be used to join in.

[ShadowStalker]

Ash honestly needs a full rework like i mean a full all ability rework because his single target playstyle gets out classed by every and i mean every frame in the game in mob shooter with the spawn system warframe has his 1v1 ninja playstyle is just awkward 

Edited June 28, 2018 by ShadowStalker

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

53 minutes ago, ShadowStalker said:

Ash honestly needs a full rework like i mean a full all ability rework because his single target playstyle gets out classed by every and i mean every frame in the game in mob shooter with the spawn system warframe has his 1v1 ninja playstyle is just awkward 

Um, Bladestorm exist you know?

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Sooroark:

Man if he is one of the strongest warframes in the game why nobody use he ??? because he is SINGLE TARGET.

It's high level AoE with a setup phase to be real here. It's meant to compliment your battle, not to do it for you. That's shurikens job.

For reference. (Literally outclassed a ember and frost in that run with nothing but shurikens...buffing both with seeking shuriken and beein restricted by frosts avalance)

Outside of a level/scaling range where those "weak" frames perform, it outclasses them all too.

 

Noone seems to be playing him these days not because Bladestorm is weak or missplaced but because everyone seems to be missusing it (classic spin marking). Actually try using his abilitys for theyr respective functions and he is indeed the strongest frame. No matter the content, no matter the level range.

Edited June 28, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Nazrethim]

hace 6 minutos, (PS4)CoolD2108 dijo:

Noone seems to be playing him these days not because Bladestorm is weak or missplaced but because everyone seems to be missusing it. Actually try using his abilitys for theyr respective functions and he is indeed the strongest frame. No matter the content, no matter the level range.

Or perhaps because he is a priority killer in a horde game. Or because the relevant content nowadays, which are Eidolons and Onslaught, Ash is very underperforming without some serious external assistance. My Umbral Ash build, complete with Venka Prime, can barely reach wave 8, and I have a whole arsenal at my disposal, including riven-powered weapons. And for Eidolons anything that isn't Oberon, Chroma or Volt is pointless.

There's also the undeniable facts of:

-Shuriken and Blade Storm overlaping, as they are both ranged attacks with bleeds. Their cost is similar even, with BS being cheaper if you are invis.

-Teleport being unusable during BS execution for no good reason

-BS key not having the join in function tied to it, tied to the above.

-SScreen having no mechanical synergy that makes sense, merely making BS cost reasonable given the type of game this has become.

You can argue my point that visuals don't match mechanics, but those 4 above are spot on and cannot be handwaved, they are just bad design.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 17 Minuten schrieb Nazrethim:

 

-Shuriken and Blade Storm overlaping, as they are both ranged attacks with bleeds. Their cost is similar even, with BS being cheaper if you are invis.

One has a high damage potential, LoS, scaling, range affection and build up, the other is unaffected by range, LoS, it is even unaffected by the envirement shooting straight trough walls and potentially dbuffs enemys on a affordable build.

Shuriken is literally your classical AoE damage ability with button press and support attached while Bladestorm compliments weapon play to an similar extend to the damage you're doing. Melee at most. The only thing where they overlap is the fact that they both set slash status, which stacks up eather way.

vor 17 Minuten schrieb Nazrethim:

 

-Teleport being unusable during BS execution for no good reason

-BS key not having the join in function tied to it, tied to the above.

 

Cause not buffing Bladestorms speed, not complimenting spin marking ain't good enough reason for people who use it appearently.

 

vor 17 Minuten schrieb Nazrethim:

 

-SScreen having no mechanical synergy that makes sense, merely making BS cost reasonable given the type of game this has become.

SScreen even leaves shurikens unaffected if you're building for duration and lower your range, what makes full support an option for him too..

As i allready said. This ain't a matter of functionality, not even design, it's merely incorrect operation. User fault at its best.

Edited June 28, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[(PSN)kingbrown2012]

3 hours ago, Sooroark said:

ok its better but we need something more practice for him, he needs a damage scaled by percentage or standard damage, he is the hardest character to play in the game so he needs to be good 

No he really isn’t .... you just may need to change your play style 

[Nazrethim]

hace 2 horas, (PS4)CoolD2108 dijo:

Shuriken is literally your classical AoE damage ability with button press

Somehow "hits two guys" is considered "AoE" now? Do you have any idea what AoEs are?

hace 2 horas, (PS4)CoolD2108 dijo:

and support attached while Bladestorm compliments weapon play to an similar extend to the damage you're doing. Melee at most.

Not really. If you use your weapons well you can make BS pointless, at least until Armor scaling kicks in. The "compliment" part is where you set a platoon of grunts to be killed while you deal with some other, more serious threat.

hace 2 horas, (PS4)CoolD2108 dijo:

The only thing where they overlap is the fact that they both set slash status, which stacks up eather way.

Their core functionality is the same. Hell, they are so similar to each other that, as the rework I said comments ago merged both with zero conflict whatsoever.

hace 2 horas, (PS4)CoolD2108 dijo:

Cause not buffing Bladestorms speed, not complimenting spin marking ain't good enough reason for people who use it appearently.

How is "proper non-sh*tty button config" a buff? The only thing having it on Teleport acomplishes is make Teleport, the designated single target assassination tool, unusable for it's function because, as I said, it replaces your usually oneshot capable finisher with a BS attack that deals a fraction of the damage. Say you have two platoons of enemies, you set one for death with BS, then attempt to teleport to the other platoon to engage them in melee. Welp, you are scr*wed because you are now bladestorming the first platoon instead.

hace 2 horas, (PS4)CoolD2108 dijo:

SScreen even leaves shurikens unaffected if you're building for duration and lower your range, what makes full support an option for him too..

Support what? SShadow has been known to be utter garbage because of it's short range (which could easily be fixed by making it leave a lingering cloud that allies can enter to get cloaking). The only time SShadow is useful, is when you are trying to rezz someone, or you are standing on a crate next to your AoE spammy team and calling BS attacks while standing still. Or to follow the Operative in sortie defense and keep him not death.

hace 2 horas, (PS4)CoolD2108 dijo:

As i allready said. This ain't a matter of functionality, not even design, it's merely incorrect operation. User fault at its best.

That's like saying the Voskhod Program failed because the Cosmonauts weren't up to the task.

[jautja]

Ult is terrible. There is no tactic in the game. What did the developers think? The game is played on ultra high speeds, marking enemies too long and uncomfortable, it is unrealistic to aim at distant targets. In this game there is no time and place for such type of ult.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 15 Stunden schrieb Nazrethim:

Somehow "hits two guys" is considered "AoE" now? Do you have any idea what AoEs are?.

Definitions now? The official one says "Area of effect (often referred to as AoE) refers to a specified area in which multiple enemies can be affected by a skill." So it technicly doesn't matter whether it's 2 at a time or all but have it your way. Would you prefer "aim assisted semi automatic turret that isn't affected by range or LoS"?

Undeniable fact remains that it is more potent then most AoE abities that may fit your definition better, even more so then mesas peacemaker since it aims beyond its reticicle and isn't affected by the envirement. Had similar results running with other metas too including saryn, which is why i prefer Ash over her past the change too.

They definitly don't overlap since they both have individual ranges and uses. They don't even conflict..been using both in theyr appropiate range in normal runs, what obviously gives even better results.

And for Teleport...as i've allready said in another thread, that you need to aim to join is probably to restrict buffing this spin marking playstyle that's been his meta even before the change. Seen lots of people admiting to it too, complaining bs is still too slow for them. Given that i can safely assume that absolutely everyone who complains about BS at this point is using and wants to buff this stupid borderline exploiting playstyle. Joining in isn't a downgrade for teleport. You do damage regardless. Lots of it. Enough to be a buff for every level range bladestorm makes sense using at all... It is an upgrade to your bladestorms speed. Wanna proove me wrong? Ask for DE to remove the join function alltogether instead in the future since you are asking for a buff as long as you're asking for "propper button config". As long as you're not, you're definitly not trying to improve teleport.

Edited June 29, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Nazrethim]

hace 4 horas, (PS4)CoolD2108 dijo:

Definitions now? The official one says "Area of effect (often referred to as AoE) refers to a specified area in which multiple enemies can be affected by a skill." So it technicly doesn't matter whether it's 2 at a time or all but have it your way. Would you prefer "aim assisted semi automatic turret that isn't affected by range or LoS"?

That would be more appropiate, yes.

Cita

Undeniable fact remains that it is more potent then most AoE abities that may fit your definition better, even more so then mesas peacemaker since it aims beyond its reticicle and isn't affected by the envirement. Had similar results running with other metas too including saryn, which is why i prefer Ash over her past the change too.

I concede this point.

Cita

They definitly don't overlap since they both have individual ranges and uses. They don't even conflict..been using both in theyr appropiate range in normal runs, what obviously gives even better results.

The only way both are equally useful is if you have Seeking Shuriken, or the terrain plays in favor of Shuriken (Lua rocky tiles come to mind)

Cita

And for Teleport...as i've allready said in another thread, that you need to aim to join is probably to restrict buffing this spin marking playstyle that's been his meta even before the change. Seen lots of people admiting to it too, complaining bs is still too slow for them. Given that i can safely assume that absolutely everyone who complains about BS at this point is using and wants to buff this stupid borderline exploiting playstyle. Joining in isn't a downgrade for teleport. You do damage regardless. Lots of it. Enough to be a buff for every level range bladestorm makes sense using at all... It is an upgrade to your bladestorms speed.

So you are saying that fixing said sh*tty designed feature would highilight another flaw on the Core mechanic of Blade Storm? I'm shocked!

Cita

Wanna proove me wrong? Ask for DE to remove the join function alltogether instead in the future since you are asking for a buff as long as you're asking for "propper button config". As long as you're not, you're definitly not trying to improve teleport.

While I do like the animation sometimes, yes, removal would be a good measure in the meantime. Disrupting one ability entirely because another ability is badly designed only adds more water to an already full cup.

Edited June 29, 2018 by Nazrethim

[DjKaplis]

On 2018-06-28 at 8:13 PM, Sooroark said:

Man if he is one of the strongest warframes in the game why nobody use he ??? because he is SINGLE TARGET. everyone use saryn beacuse she is multi target and she is strong,thats what i need for ash. well its very boring to look at targets, to mark the targets, for me had to have a part of the range of Blade Storm has to have automatic marking of the 3 points is one of the things that has to be changed in it because no one else uses he beause he is boring 

 

You need him to be Saryn? Play Saryn. Saryn is cool, currently my most used frame but Ash is definitely not boring compared to her. Just a completely different playstyle.

And many people use him. Myself included. And when I don't have to farm focus anymore as I max it out part of my playtime wont be occupied in eso or hydron so I will be able to use him even more often.

Many people think that large range nuke abilities are boring. Making Ash bladestorm like that would take away from his identity as an assasin and make him yet another aoe nuker. That's not who Ash is. Doesn't need to be. Bladestorm current targeting works just fine and the ability is very strong. Targeting enemies on the contrary is unique and not boring at all.

 

In conclusion - forget it. He got some very nice tweaks already and hopefully is not going to get changed anytime soon. Ash doesn't need a rework and is in a great place now. Most players and I think DE as well see it.

[Nazrethim]

hace 5 horas, DjKaplis dijo:

In conclusion - forget it. He got some very nice tweaks already and hopefully is not going to get changed anytime soon. Ash doesn't need a rework and is in a great place now. Most players and I think DE as well see it.

How about moving "join bladestorm" to Blade Storm key instead of Teleport?

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb Nazrethim:

The only way both are equally useful is if you have Seeking Shuriken, or the terrain plays in favor of Shuriken (Lua rocky tiles come to mind)

That much is a given. Tho i was plenty successfull wo seeking shuriken too... definitly took it in the progress of testing because it's a waste not to.

You'll find doorways, walls, pillars, corners and small rooms wherever you are. In the plains you can straight up shuriken enemys before they even leave the dropship or depel the dropships armor and shoot that one down instead. There's a reason people don't essencially agree to LoS. Rather then hoping for an envirement working in your favor, most of the current metas or frames in generall gotta have one to work for them instead and chance is that you'll be able to outrange them even then. No matter if you're standing still or shooting them on the run, moving on to let the proccs do theyr work. On a 155% strength build (transient or umbra intensify r2) you'll get a total of 4,1k/shuriken so it is definitly up to ultimate standarts.

If anything does manage to come close, be it because of levels or carelessness you can transit into bladestorming and weapons on the fly... a seeking shuriken build is literally 140+ strength and duration. No stats that really harm bladestorming or SB, not even if you're using narrow mindet and that enemys won't have armor at that point doesn't exactly hurt eather. Not you, not anyone else.

Shuriken is such an overlooked ability for the one purpose people try to change Bladestorm to for ages now.