Exalted Weapon change is garbage - Here's why

[Aisu9]

il y a 59 minutes, skcuf a dit :

3. Diwata has no stance. Because of this I now have a maximum of 60 points instead of 70 and require even MORE forma to build her fully

Just like melee arcwing, and archwing melee weapon doesn't have stance... you want what ? a MIRACLE

Edited June 29, 2018 by Aisu9

[skcuf]

5 minutes ago, Aisu9 said:

Just like melee arcwing, and archwing melee weapon doesn't have stance... you want what ? a MIRACLE

Wukong has a stance and gets no benefit from it. 

[Buttaface]

Just got around to building out some of the exalted weapons. The "requires four forma each" posted in other threads and implied in this one are gross exaggerations. I am a very experienced builder/modder in this game, and some took one, some took two. Admittedly I don't play the aimbot/crutch frame, feel more immersed watching TV, so maybe Peacemaker takes four.

Protip: When a weapon is capable of obscene dps as most exalted weapons are, go for status no matter how low base SC, and save some drain/forma with 7 drain mods.

I think they did a great job with the exalted weapons overall, dex pixia could do with a bit of shrinkage, kind of grotesquely sized as if for kiddy sensibilities, and one too many dash polarity on claws, but those are minor quibbles. As others post, I feel they are more powerful now, and allow much more weapon buildout diversity than the old system.

[(PSN)Chadnco9]

What a total crap complaint.  So a change for the better comes w some Forma cost.  Thank god we can load out our regular weapons without being concerned about how it effects the exalted.  De is gonna have to do a whole lot more than that to loose their unpredatory reputation.  

  And what do u have to do to get that Forma?  Right, play Warframe.  Which is quite thrilling fun.  

  Complaint is bullcorn.

[Insizer]

On the flipside I can now mod my primary bow and exalted bow on Ivara differently.  Which I really like.  I also like I can mod my melee weapon (using lots of speed) different than Wukong's exalted stave (using much less speed so i can at least use more than the drop dead boring and annoying RMB combo).

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

I don't know about you but my Titania is loving the new changes. I found a build for her Dex Pixia that can shred just about everything quickly.

[MrPhixit]

I dont agree with the OP. The freedom to mod the weapons seperate from my equipped gear allows us to carry whatever we want now. Its a great quality of life change.

[Zyion]

The Forma cost for Warframes with Exalted weapons is pretty ridiculous right now. I see allot of people saying that they are happy that they have something to put Forma in, but you need to understand that the way Exalted weapons currently work is terrible for new players. New players don't have hundreds of Forma wasting away in their inventories and often don't have the materials to build them in mass. New players often don't like finding out that they have to spend weeks getting one Warframe out of dozens up to snuff for endgame content. New players won't like the fact that once they spend weeks putting Forma into one Warframe, they find out that they have to do it all over again for the Prime version. DE's goal should be to lower the amount of grind to improve the new player experience, not increase it.

The simple fix for this is to just make it so that Exalted weapons have unlimited mod points. We shouldn't have to spend extra Forma just to improve one Warframe ability when that should be already covered with the Warframe mods.

[Gamma745]

5 minutes ago, Zyion said:

The Forma cost for Warframes with Exalted weapons is pretty ridiculous right now. I see allot of people saying that they are happy that they have something to put Forma in, but you need to understand that the way Exalted weapons currently work is terrible for new players. New players don't have hundreds of Forma wasting away in their inventories and often don't have the materials to build them in mass. New players often don't like finding out that they have to spend weeks getting one Warframe out of dozens up to snuff for endgame content. New players won't like the fact that once they spend weeks putting Forma into one Warframe, they find out that they have to do it all over again for the Prime version. DE's goal should be to lower the amount of grind to improve the new player experience, not increase it.

The simple fix for this is to just make it so that Exalted weapons have unlimited mod points. We shouldn't have to spend extra Forma just to improve one Warframe ability when that should be already covered with the Warframe mods.

New Players wouldn't need to worry about Forma on any weapons anyway. Forma-ing a weapon is to maximize it's potential, but it's already plenty viable with it's default 3 innate polarity. Built in Catalyst and 3 default polarity that matches a lot of useful basic mods, I say that quite good even with 0 Forma.

New Players shouldn't worry about end-game content 5 hours into the game.

[DatDarkOne]

11 minutes ago, Gamma745 said:

New Players wouldn't need to worry about Forma on any weapons anyway. Forma-ing a weapon is to maximize it's potential, but it's already plenty viable with it's default 3 innate polarity. Built in Catalyst and 3 default polarity that matches a lot of useful basic mods, I say that quite good even with 0 Forma.

New Players shouldn't worry about end-game content 5 hours into the game.

Thank you.  I'm not sure how many times others and I have said the same thing.  

Here's my Artemis bow build that barely needed the one forma i added.

 

 

[Zyion]

2 minutes ago, Gamma745 said:

New Players wouldn't need to worry about Forma on any weapons anyway. Forma-ing a weapon is to maximize it's potential, but it's already plenty viable with it's default 3 innate polarity. Built in Catalyst and 3 default polarity that matches a lot of useful basic mods, I say that quite good even with 0 Forma.

New Players shouldn't worry about end-game content 5 hours into the game.

The problem is the perspective the immense amount of grinding in Warframe gives new players. When I started playing Warframe the grind was nowhere near as bad as it currently is today, and I'm constantly seeing it get worse with every major update. If I had started today and looked into what it took to get either the best possible builds or to endgame content, I would have probably dropped the game immediately and not given it a chance.

[DatDarkOne]

2 minutes ago, Zyion said:

The problem is the perspective the immense amount of grinding in Warframe gives new players. When I started playing Warframe the grind was nowhere near as bad as it currently is today, and I'm constantly seeing it get worse with every major update. If I had started today and looked into what it took to get either the best possible builds or to endgame content, I would have probably dropped the game immediately and not given it a chance.

But you get forma way faster than you get the maxed ranked mods to need the forma.  I learned this one first hand on my alt account.  

So those saying the grind for forma makes it difficult for new players are exaggerating the truth.  

[Gamma745]

1 minute ago, DatDarkOne said:

 

 

Wow, my Artemis build is almost the same, except I replaced Hammer Shot with Primed Cryo Round for Viral damage.

 

2 minutes ago, Zyion said:

The problem is the perspective the immense amount of grinding in Warframe gives new players. When I started playing Warframe the grind was nowhere near as bad as it currently is today, and I'm constantly seeing it get worse with every major update. If I had started today and looked into what it took to get either the best possible builds or to endgame content, I would have probably dropped the game immediately and not given it a chance.

That's kind of the inevitable consequence of a game with practically 5-6 years full of content and constant update. It does seems daunting, but trying to look too far ahead in any game does that. That's why I would suggest any newbie that asked me for advice to take their time and play at their own pace, instead of trying race to the endgame meta.

[Zyion]

 

7 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

Thank you.  I'm not sure how many times others and I have said the same thing.  

Here's my Artemis bow build that barely needed the one forma i added. 

 

 

That's allot of rare mods that new players won't have easy access to. You do realize that new player will only have access to the higher cost uncommon mods right?

Edited July 13, 2018 by Zyion

[DatDarkOne]

Just now, Zyion said:

 

That's allot of rare mods that new players won't have easy access to. You do realize that new player will only have access to the higher cost uncommon mods right?

You just made my earlier point.  😀

3 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

But you get forma way faster than you get the maxed ranked mods to need the forma.  I learned this one first hand on my alt account.  

So those saying the grind for forma makes it difficult for new players are exaggerating the truth.  

 

[Zyion]

1 minute ago, DatDarkOne said:

You just made my earlier point.  😀

 

Um, no. Those rare dual stat mods cost less mod points then the uncommon elemental mods that are allot easier to get. I don't see how that proves your point, to me it's just another grind for new players.

[Gamma745]

11 minutes ago, Zyion said:

 

That's allot of rare mods that new players won't have easy access to. You do realize that new player will only have access to the higher cost uncommon mods right?

Which my advice would be the same. Take your time, and just make do with the mods you can get. Not all slots need to be filled to clear the star chart anyway. Besides, how many new players can max out Serration that quickly?

[DatDarkOne]

23 minutes ago, Zyion said:

Um, no. Those rare dual stat mods cost less mod points then the uncommon elemental mods that are allot easier to get. I don't see how that proves your point, to me it's just another grind for new players.

Why do we use Forma?  Because it allows us to fit in more mods of higher rank.  We get forma long before we have higher ranked mods to need the forma.  

So if you don't have the higher costing mods at full rank, then you don't need to worry about using forma.  Forma'ing a weapon or exalted is not something a newer player would be doing.  This is because they wouldn't have a full set of ranked mods for a complete build anyway.  

edit: This very truth defeats "the exalted change forma cost isn't friendly to new players" argument.  

Edited July 13, 2018 by DatDarkOne

[Zyion]

4 minutes ago, Gamma745 said:

Which my advice would be the same. Take your time, and just make do with the mods you can get. Not all slots need to be filled to clear the star chart anyway. Besides, how many new players can max out Serration that quickly?

That isn't what new players are going to perceive when they try to pick up the game. They are going to see this massive grind wall to overcome and not something to take in strides. I have a bunch of friends who were hardcore WoW players that would spend months grinding to be able to do a single raid dungeon, and they feel time investment in Warframe just isn't worth it to pick up.

1 minute ago, DatDarkOne said:

Why do we use Forma?  Because it allows us to fit in more mods of higher rank.  We get forma long before we have higher ranked mods to need the forma.  

So if you don't have the higher costing mods at full rank, then you don't need to worry about using forma.  Forma'ing a weapon or exalted is the not something a newer player would be doing.  This is because they wouldn't have a full set of ranked mods for a complete build anyway.  

The problem is the perception the grind gives. Whether or not they can do the stuff on the map is meaningless if they realize the true scope of the grind and give up early.

[Gamma745]

1 minute ago, Zyion said:

That isn't what new players are going to perceive when they try to pick up the game. They are going to see this massive grind wall to overcome and not something to take in strides. I have a bunch of friends who were hardcore WoW players that would spend months grinding to be able to do a single raid dungeon, and they feel time investment in Warframe just isn't worth it to pick up.

That's the same with any long-lived MMO, isn't it? You mentioned WoW. Does anyone get scared picking up WoW seeing the months or maybe years of grind to reach the current level of "veterans"?

[Zyion]

Just now, Gamma745 said:

That's the same with any long-lived MMO, isn't it? You mentioned WoW. Does anyone get scared picking up WoW seeing the months or maybe years of grind to reach the current level of "veterans"?

Whenever a new expansion is released for WoW, Blizzard adjusts the game's new player experience to make it easier for new players to get to expansion content rather than having to anguish in content no one is playing anymore. DE doesn't do that, they just continue to add on without taking into account what new players have to go through to get to where everyone else is.

[DatDarkOne]

Just now, Zyion said:

Whenever a new expansion is released for WoW, Blizzard adjusts the game's new player experience to make it easier for new players to get to expansion content rather than having to anguish in content no one is playing anymore. DE doesn't do that, they just continue to add on without taking into account what new players have to go through to get to where everyone else is.

And Blizzard charges a monthly fee for WoW that DE doesn't charge us for Warframe.  If you are going to bring up comparisons like that then be fair and give full disclosure.  Don't leave out very important and relevant aspects.  

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

How to put this delicately.

 

Gimping a weapon to be a stat stuck for exaulted was utter hot garbage with a side of sewage.

 

I am glad for the change, despite it throwing away the forma previously spent on stat stick weapons. Most dont require much, but you would have had to potentially ruin a weapons polarity previously.

 

Now i can freely use what i want with an exaulted weapon. Instead of a heavily formed crap weapon i would otherwise never use i can have my favorite melee or ranged weapon, heavily formed itself mind you, in addition to a hugely powerful exaulted.

Titania in particular has benefitted greatly in being able to equip good well modded normal weapons as before she was almost totally dedicated to stat sticks, making her really weak out of razorwing. With how she is now, you dont have to build for either razorwing or non razorwing with your weapons.

It was a change needed for build diversity above all else. As for not being new player friendly.. it was worse before as you had no ingame indication or explanation of how stat sticking worked.  The proof of just how confused people got, people were complaining about bloodrush no longer being equippable on exaulted weapons! Anyone who did their proper reasearch was long aware of the fact they never worked. 

So yes i admit its costly, always was super costly to equip an exaulted. You always had to stat stick a weapon which required forma. The change only asked you to do it again.. as for mods, well most stat stick weapon choices were either close matches to the base exaulted stats or throwaways that were never used outside of sticking. Most of those had NO innate polarities meaning that they were even more effort!

Now, exaulted stances do need to give some energy.. this is the only thing we really lost in this transition beyond having to redo forma. And having a single stat stick used between exaulted was possible. But the gains from this far out weight the losses.

[Zyion]

1 minute ago, DatDarkOne said:

And Blizzard charges a monthly fee for WoW that DE doesn't charge us for Warframe.  If you are going to bring up comparisons like that then be fair and give full disclosure.  Don't leave out very important and relevant aspects.  

That's hardly a good point as it just becomes an excuse for bad game design. You are basically saying it's okay for DE to make the new player experience worst because they don't have to pay a monthly subscription.

[Gamma745]

7 minutes ago, Zyion said:

Whenever a new expansion is released for WoW, Blizzard adjusts the game's new player experience to make it easier for new players to get to expansion content rather than having to anguish in content no one is playing anymore. DE doesn't do that, they just continue to add on without taking into account what new players have to go through to get to where everyone else is.

Perhaps drawing that parallel was a mistake. I just realized that WoW is almost linear progression (from what I've heard) while Warframe is almost akin to sandbox type gameplay.

In Warframe, reaching the current level of "veterans" is just for bragging rights. Min-maxing is done just to speed up grind, or for Endurance runs. Never needed to experience every gameplay the game has to offer. My 1-Forma Dex Pixia is already shredding Sortie 3 content with ease, meaning a 0 Forma is enough for the entire Star-chart and every quest available.