Openworld bounties leech problem

[Navarc]

This thread is not about the difficulty or rather the lack thereof in bounties. It's not about specific incursions. It's not about bad or good rewards. It's about DE working to counter a problem that will only grow as more open world tilesets get added & they themselves have determined is a problem since we can report people for it. I'm capable of soloing these missions and it's entirely irrelevant to the topic as I shouldn't have to play solo in an MMO if I want to avoid people who are breaking the rules and leeching off of my progress. 
If you have not encountered any leechers that's really good and I'm glad for you but I encounter people daily who just stand at the gate or immediately head to a pond to fish or into a cave to mine.
Post alternate solutions to this issues, discuss the issue itself.

This thread is not about people with low damage or people with high damage. It's about the people who don't participate whatsoever in the bounty and is only there to gain standing that you've earned while you get nothing from what they're doing.

· The best alternative in my personal opinion is introducing the awareness rating that Venus has. At 3 stars enemies are constantly and fluently chasing you down and know your position which is how it should be on all players when an incursion is on-going in a bounty. 
· Alternate suggestion by @Fishyflakes is for rewards & standing to only be handed out to players within the incursion area. @Chewarette added that this solution would work better if there was a timer before it starts. Timer would skip if all players get to the bounty.
·  @Chewarette also suggested that the mission fails for players who did not participate in a half of the bounty, meaning they keep nothing if they don't participate in the bounty through at least half of the incursions. 3/5 on the high tier ones. Or that the grineer bolkors spawnrate is massively increased outside of the bounty area, targetting tenno who are fishing/mining. Although this might be ineffective for the miners who spend their whole bounty in a cave.
 

I'm capping out 26,000 Ostron standing and in a majority of the missions there are leeches. If I'm not host I can't kick them so I have to leave because I won't carry these people. You specifically allow us to report these kinds of people & you send them inbox messages warning them not to continue but I feel you're not actually setting up the game to counter people from doing it. Dealing with people who break the rules is great but making them unable to break them is better.
I have so many recent AFK reports that I have to file every time I do bounties is what it feels like and it's really disruptive and you know it will carry over to the Venus Open World bounties when they roll out after TennoCon, please deal with the issue before that so I don't have to play solo in an MMO. Support would thank you & the players who aren't leeches would thank you.

I'm at the point where I'm about to set up a cursor macro or bookmark this page.

TL;DR
 It's against the rules to leech/AFK in missions, there's an AFK timer that stops legitimately AFK people but nothing to stop leeches in bounties. This thread has become a discussion for potential solutions to that problem.
There's still the freeroam game mode for harvesting resources & mixing in incursions. People who just want to fish can simply play on freeroam & fish, it wouldn't change anything for most players as most players aren't taking advantage of one another.

Edited August 13, 2018 by Navarchus
additional great suggestions on how to solve the issue

[Fishyflakes]

+1 Hopefully DE just makes them stay in the mission circle to get rewards or something though.

[Navarc]

Just now, Fishyflakes said:

+1 Hopefully DE just makes them stay in the mission circle to get rewards or something though.

Thanks, added it to the thread. It's another fantastic solution that would mostly solve the issue.

[Xaero]

1 hour ago, Fishyflakes said:

+1 Hopefully DE just makes them stay in the mission circle to get rewards or something though.

Not a good solution since often there are speedrunners who complete objectives before others even get there. Especially new players who don't have any means to travel fast.

 

1 hour ago, Navarchus said:

Thanks, added it to the thread. It's another fantastic solution that would mostly solve the issue.

It's not.

[Fishyflakes]

1 minute ago, Ksaero said:

Not a good solution since often there are speedrunners who complete objectives before others even get there. Especially new players who don't have any means to travel fast.

Which mission type in particular the Plains other than the 25 enemy exterminate (which spawns multiple Mission zones) could possibly be completed before someone can skedaddle 300 meters?

[kaldewej]

vor 19 Minuten schrieb Fishyflakes:

Which mission type in particular the Plains other than the 25 enemy exterminate (which spawns multiple Mission zones) could possibly be completed before someone can skedaddle 300 meters?

The mission where you free the prisoner. 

[Xaero]

30 minutes ago, Fishyflakes said:

Which mission type in particular the Plains other than the 25 enemy exterminate (which spawns multiple Mission zones) could possibly be completed before someone can skedaddle 300 meters?

Rescue, capture, crate search, assassination. I can't even tell how many times I managed to complete them before my squadmates could get there. And they were trying.

[Navarc]

3 minutes ago, Ksaero said:

Rescue, capture, crate search, assassination. I can't even tell how many times I managed to complete them before my squadmates could get there. And they were trying.

Fair enough, I can definitely remember times where I've shot the assassination target and picked them up before my teammates get there as well as the crate search when none of them are underground. Still I would prefer people speedrunning and me missing some 300 kuva or a wisp once in a while over having a full squad of leeches several times in a row. But that's just personal preference, the resources may be more important to some.

[More-L]

I do agree that there is a problem with people not focusing on the objective and just leeching. But there is no real reasonable solution to fix it aside from a vote kick system (which could still be abused.)

I personally mine when I'm waiting for slower people to catch up at extract or rescue target because the target doesn't follow any logical teleportation method and more often teleports to the furthest person from the objective.

 

[kaldewej]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb Navarchus:

Fair enough, I can definitely remember times where I've shot the assassination target and picked them up before my teammates get there as well as the crate search when none of them are underground. Still I would prefer people speedrunning and me missing some 300 kuva or a wisp once in a while over having a full squad of leeches several times in a row. But that's just personal preference, the resources may be more important to some.

I would be super pissed if i lost a reward only because someone was faster than me. Why should DE do something like that. 

Live goes on even if you have a leecher in the lobby. 

Also the Bountie missions are not very difficult, i don't see why to complain when one guy is doing nothing.

[Navarc]

1 hour ago, kaldewej said:

I would be super pissed if i lost a reward only because someone was faster than me. Why should DE do something like that. 

Live goes on even if you have a leecher in the lobby. 

Also the Bountie missions are not very difficult, i don't see why to complain when one guy is doing nothing.

It's not about difficulty or rewards. It's against the rules. This is bordering on off-topic please don't derail the thread.

[kaldewej]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Navarchus:

It's not about difficulty or rewards. It's against the rules. This is bordering on off-topic please don't derail the thread.

Well, we didn't talk about being AFK, thats a completly different story. I also hate people who join a lobby AFK and then come back when the mission is finished.

I talked about people who don't really make kills but run along with the team and mine a few gems. I don't have anything against those guys and you can't prevent that.

[Kraitharch]

Maybe you can make equally nice suggestion about how to deal with players who use max range Limbo? Or players with Mesa on defence missions? Or max range Ember, Banshee, Saryn? You know, all those warframes which are funny only for it's users and leaves nothing for the rest of squad to do.

[Navarc]

1 hour ago, Kraitharch said:

Maybe you can make equally nice suggestion about how to deal with players who use max range Limbo? Or players with Mesa on defence missions? Or max range Ember, Banshee, Saryn? You know, all those warframes which are funny only for it's users and leaves nothing for the rest of squad to do.

Completely off-topic, mate. That has nothing to do with leeching and how leeching will carry on into the next open world if DE doesn't deal with the issue.
Make a feedback thread if you want to discuss how Saryn gets buffed every other month. I don't disagree with you on some of these things but I just don't think it's relevant here.

Edited July 1, 2018 by Navarchus

[LieutentDread24]

No just no, why should you disable resources just because some players afk, what is the problem picking up stuff on your way to the objective you have just made the game more grindy. 

As you know in every mission you can pick up stuff why should it be different on the plains.

[Kraitharch]

Ok, on-topic:
Plains are considered open world. Removing open world activities form PoE during missions will make it de facto usual missions but with annoyingly long distances to run. Which would rise a question why do we need such game mode at all. So it's not an option, imo. I agree that going to fishing while the rest of squad doing a mission is rude thing to do but mining some gems on your way between missions areas can't do harm, it's like a minor break from all that repetitive pew pew action.
AFK guys and guys who mind they own business while you trying to complete mission objective isn't solely PoE issue. This is an issue of normal missions too. It would be more logical to stand up for some kind of "vote to kick" option, rather than asking to change a whole game mode. Anyway, I guess it's like inevitable risk when you play with randoms.
But there is a choice: spend some time to organize a squad with clan memebrs who would be willing to speedrun with you or go with unpredictable randoms.

Edited July 1, 2018 by Kraitharch

[kaldewej]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Navarchus:

Completely off-topic, mate. That has nothing to do with leeching and how leeching will carry on into the next open world if DE doesn't deal with the issue.
Make a feedback thread if you want to discuss how Saryn gets buffed every other month. I don't disagree with you on some of these things but I just don't think it's relevant here.

Ok, lets start here and define leeching. What exactly is leeching?

Is someone a leecher if he only has a few kills and the team has a few hundred kills?

Maybe he just equipped bad weapons or the enemies were a bit to high level. Or maybe his focus wasn't killing but defending the target.

In Elite Onslaught mission it is common that a Saryn has 1k+ kills while the team has nothing to do. Is that also considered "leeching"?

 

I hope you get my point that this habit can not be defined easily and no one can really determine if someone was leeching just by his stats.

[KIREEK]

6 hours ago, Kraitharch said:

Maybe you can make equally nice suggestion about how to deal with players who use max range Limbo? Or players with Mesa on defence missions? Or max range Ember, Banshee, Saryn? You know, all those warframes which are funny only for it's users and leaves nothing for the rest of squad to do.

This is among the most popular escuses, a player like that does not need to resort to afk gameplay, collectiong resources, buffing, healing and dealing with certain unusual enemies, opening lockers and so on can be done.

Good players seek things to do, they always contribute, i have never had a game where despite me killing everything, players lacked things to do and this only obvious because most games i do i never end up doing a report

Bad player however will simply resort to afk and here lies the problem, it's not a faulty mechanic, it's the behavior.

@Navarchus

Seems i have been having good luck then, i report almost on a daily basis so i understand your fustration, but i am having a hard time finding leeches in the bounties, most teams i'm in everyone plays, i have had my share of players who like to explore (aka leech), very noticiable on the easiest bounties, but i am far from seeing this non stop, it's more or less the same frequency with alerts, onslaught and so on, maybe it's the time of day or the region, don't know exactly but i was expecting to report far more after the bounties in the plains.

I can't say your strategy is great, because efficiency demands objectives, killing and side things, mining something near a batlefield can be good especially if the objective isn't delayed in anyway such as when the transition from 1 stage to the next one, as it takes time for the lotus to place a new marker.

You can also find cetus wisps on your way to an objective, so i don't think DE should disable it, i feel that things should remainas they are now, if someone steps over the line, tell them in chat or report if they insist with the behavior, after a couple reports it's no big deal and you will be improving the community

Now, before everyone jumps in with "hey i want to start reporting players aswell", 1st you need to know exactly what it is, there are some trigger happy players that report for the sake of it, some players do not think avoiding the objective is leeching, so if you are one of those players, especially like those who like to blame mechanics like world on fire as the cause for afk gameplay, then please, do not report, leave it for the players that care and know.

Edited July 1, 2018 by KIREEK

[Kronxito]

On 2018-07-01 at 7:50 AM, Navarchus said:

This thread is not about the difficulty or rather the lack thereof in bounties. It's not about specific incursions. It's not about bad or good rewards. It's about DE working to counter a problem that will only grow as more open world tilesets get added & they themselves have determined is a problem since we can report people for it. I'm capable of soloing these missions and it's entirely irrelevant to the topic as I shouldn't have to play solo in an MMO if I want to avoid people who are breaking the rules and leeching off of my progress. 

Fishing & mining needs to be unavailable when you're playing a bounty on Public. If it's on friends, invite only or solo it's absolutely fine since you're messing around with people you know.
Whether you do it by disabling those gear items required to harvest the resources or by not making them spawn which you already can do - after host migrations ore veins & fishes cease to spawn so it's definitely possible for these resources to just not spawn.
 

+1

Please DE, make this possible. Thanks.

[Navarc]

1 hour ago, AnGeL_KRoM said:

+1

Please DE, make this possible. Thanks.

Thanks for the support, man. Really hope DE deals with the issue by some means, even if not this way before Venus comes out and people undoubtedly do the same.

[Somb3rBivalve]

On 2018-07-01 at 5:39 PM, kaldewej said:

Ok, lets start here and define leeching. What exactly is leeching?

Is someone a leecher if he only has a few kills and the team has a few hundred kills?

Maybe he just equipped bad weapons or the enemies were a bit to high level. Or maybe his focus wasn't killing but defending the target.

In Elite Onslaught mission it is common that a Saryn has 1k+ kills while the team has nothing to do. Is that also considered "leeching"?

 

I hope you get my point that this habit can not be defined easily and no one can really determine if someone was leeching just by his stats.

A leecher is someone who makes no effort to help with the objective. If they try to help, even if they don't get there in time, or their gear is crap, I can respect that. What I don't like is doing what OP describes where people just fish/mine instead of making any effort to help.

[(PSN)ForNoPurpose]

Yes please... i dont care how boring or pointless you perceive the content to be, if you dont make the effort you dont get the reward.

This generation and these stupid prize for nothings.

Even if it means the occaisonal no reward because you spawn into the plains right when a stage ends. Even if the occaisonal rusher is completing stages before you get there.. you should not be going off and blatantly ignoring the objective for personal greedy gain.

[Gyrnos]

This is becoming an issue in SO and ESO as well where a player will come in either in a Limbo and hide in the Rift the entire time or find some ledge or obstacle out of the way so they can avoid having to actually do anything but still leech Affinity and Zone rewards. As annoying as they are in PoE in the Onslaught it's even worse where a single person not pulling their weight will eventually drag the efficiency down. Any solution to the Leecher problem on PoE should extend to Fortuna and E/SO. We can't solve a problem in one place but leave it in others. 

Edited July 14, 2018 by Sageis

[Navarc]

51 minutes ago, Sageis said:

This is becoming an issue in SO and ESO as well where a player will come in either in a Limbo and hide in the Rift the entire time or find some ledge or obstacle out of the way so they can avoid having to actually do anything but still leech Affinity and Zone rewards. As annoying as they are in PoE in the Onslaught it's even worse where a single person not pulling their weight will eventually drag the efficiency down. Any solution to the Leecher problem on PoE should extend to Fortuna and E/SO. We can't solve a problem in one place but leave it in others. 

I don't think there will ever come a solution to non-participating players that can't be proven they are not participating except by screenshots, other than reporting them.
Though it is absolutely related because it's the same kind of player who would do this on the plains as the one who would do that in Sanctuary Onslaught, I think the solutions would be different.

[AlphaPHENIX]

On 2018-07-01 at 9:53 AM, Fishyflakes said:

+1 Hopefully DE just makes them stay in the mission circle to get rewards or something though.

On 2018-07-01 at 10:16 AM, Ksaero said:

Not a good solution since often there are speedrunners who complete objectives before others even get there. Especially new players who don't have any means to travel fast.

That and people (like me) who take ages to load in while other players are already doing the bounties. I already nearly always miss out on the first bounty stage because of this, getting in for the second right before it ends...if I am lucky.

PS: Oh and considering that Fortuna is gona be even bigger then the plains...this problem is gona get even worse.

Edited July 14, 2018 by AlphaPHENIX