Faction Fatigue

[DrakeWurrum]

Random Googling confirms this topic has been discussed in the past, but I'd still like to throw in my 2 cents. Right now there's only 3 "major" human factions... Grineer, Corpus, and the Tenno. (the latter not being nearly as numerous, but powerful for sure)
Then there's two inhuman factions: The Infested, and the Sentients. They're both more universal threats than factions. The former is a biological menace, while the latter is an "alien" menace (in that they originate from Tau, with Orokin-crafted origins).
I don't consider the Corrupted/Orokin to be a faction on its own, as it's currently just an amalgamation of Void-corrupted units from the 3 main enemy factions. Unless that changes in the future - I still wonder what exactly is going on with Corrupted Vor, and if that will go anywhere bigger.

So this means we have 4 main enemy factions, one of which is currently (for the most part) limited to the cinematic quests. I've heard that will change in the future, too.

I got to thinking about how OTHER sci-fi games handle the idea of factions. Warframe mimics the StarCraft universe for the most part: one gritty militaristic faction, one futuristic advanced science faction, and one rampaging biological faction. (Then all the Xel'Naga, Tal'darim, and Amon stuff have some parallels to the ideas behind Sentient and Void-based enemies)
Then I remembered Supreme Commander. One of its factions was not just advanced science, but also an extremely religious faction. It was their unique factor even more than science was (unlike StarCraft's Protoss, which was both science and religious fervor). They worshipped some advanced alien race.

So what if the Sol system in Warframe had a fourth major human faction as a big religious organization?
However it could happen lore-wise is something that can be worked out, as there's plenty of moons and extra-solar planets yet to be touched - maybe a major Operation where they rise up from Saturn's moons Enceladus, Rhea, and Titan and attempt to take control of Saturn itself from the Grineer. (Remember, Saturn actually has 62 moons, but Titan is notable for being larger than Mercury). Perhaps there could be some simple explanation that they have been biding their time for the right moment to strike, and have been using Void cloaking to avoid detection.
They could worship the Void, (building on how the Corpus seem to revere the Void, for example, but obviously care more about profit). Their aesthetic could be more smooth and graceful than either Grineer (scrappy) or Corpus (raw tech) designs, perhaps reminiscent of Orokin and Tenno designs, while most of their militaristic strength could stem from having found ways to manipulate Void energies (thus why the Tenno could see them as a threat, as for now only Tenno can do that). The faction could even see the Tenno themselves as "void devils" much as Orokin once referred to them.
They could have an almost cult-like following of humans from around the Sol system supporting them, looking desperately to some group to give them hope (with humanity on the brink of extinction) while most of their fighting strength (that allows them to stand up against both Grineer and Corpus factions) stems from having Void-based technology and some robotics, in some cases even unleashing their own Corrupted units onto the field.  The members of this faction could advertise themselves as defenders of humanity, looking to "save" the system from the aggression of the Grineer, the greed of the Corpus, and the "devilry" of the Tenno.
It would even be interesting if the group were lead by mysterious "Oracles" who have "become one" with the Void (to mean, of course, that they're corrupted by Void energies, but still in control of their faculties).

They would obviously be named in a religious fashion - something like "The Radiant", "The Order", "The Chosen", "The Illuminate" - you get the idea.

Edited July 2, 2018 by DrakeWurrum

[peterc3]

They aren't going to retcon nearly the entire lore to insert an overdone trope.

[VadiseReikaz]

It's most likely Kane and the Brotherhood Of NOD.

[DrakeWurrum]

31 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

They aren't going to retcon nearly the entire lore to insert an overdone trope.

Who said anything about retconning anything in? A new faction rising up seemingly out of nowhere, having managed to develop technology none of the other factions have is not what I would call a retcon. It's also the case that most of the game's lore has yet to be written or fully explained.

And if you wanna talk tropes: Grineer are space marines, while Corpus is evil corporation, and Infested are rampaging biological monstrosities
All overdone, all appearing in other forms of science fiction many times over.

I just think it would make the game more interesting to have one more major human faction, if at least for the sake of variety, and the only thing I can think of to really make it unique from both Grineer and Corpus (as well as the Infested and Sentients) would be a religious human faction with aesthetically-appealing tech design.

26 minutes ago, VadiseReikaz said:

It's most likely Kane and the Brotherhood Of NOD.

Oh wow, I'd forgotten about C&C. Shame on me.

Edited July 2, 2018 by DrakeWurrum

[Urlan]

Well, most folk that hold to the Old Orokin Elite ways would call us Void Demons. Corpus higher ups that have some idea that we aren't warframes. The Queens perhaps, but they call us Dreamers since they know way more than most; and Helminth but the idea could work in a way as having Nef Anyo who already operates on a platform of pseudo religion huckster style con-man deals. Could change up some of those ideas to work on fleshing out another event or involvement to flesh out how Nef's Corpus faction is different from other Corpus and Grineer. 

[DrakeWurrum]

9 minutes ago, Urlan said:

Well, most folk that hold to the Old Orokin Elite ways would call us Void Demons.

Yes, that's the idea. I was thinking to flesh that out some - maybe it could be a group of non-elite humans of the Orokin Empire who built their religious ideology up from their knowledge of history being distorted over several generations, with the idea that the Orokin would certainly keep quite a few secrets from the masses.

Or maybe instead of worshipping the Void, the religious group could be worshippers of the Orokin themselves? Ballas' character design was inspired by Hindu gods, after all.
And with their seeming immortality, thanks to Continuity, lower members of Orokin society probably would see them as god-like beings. It would also explain why regular people would be willing to parade their children through the halls of the Orokin, eager to offer them up to an object of worship...

Edited July 2, 2018 by DrakeWurrum

[ViolaRecluse]

Remember that settlement that was introduced during the Glast Gambit? 

They were marginally spiritual, though I suppose that doesn't count as Religious.

Red Veil is another faction, thought I suppose their closer to a fanatic cult than a religion.

 

[DrakeWurrum]

5 minutes ago, ViolaRecluse said:

Remember that settlement that was introduced during the Glast Gambit? 

They were marginally spiritual, though I suppose that doesn't count as Religious.

Red Veil is another faction, thought I suppose their closer to a fanatic cult than a religion.

 

Yes, but the Perrin Sequence exists as separate from the Corpus. It's not like any one group could ever have a monopoly on spiritual beliefs.

[GrayArchon]

The Orokin and the Corpus both had/have religious mysticism surrounding their advanced technology. We don't need a whole new faction for it; we can just explore what is already there.

[DrakeWurrum]

4 minutes ago, GrayArchon said:

The Orokin and the Corpus both had/have religious mysticism surrounding their advanced technology. We don't need a whole new faction for it; we can just explore what is already there.

The Orokin to some degree, sure, but they're a dead faction. And the Corpus really don't. They're all profit and greed as their unifying personality trait.

If you've ever played Supreme Commander, I see the Corpus as being akin to the Cybran, while I'm suggesting we bring in a faction akin to the Aeon Illuminate.

This would also allow to DE artists to explore a new artistic direction, without being bogged down by keeping things consistent with current faction design.

Edited July 2, 2018 by DrakeWurrum

[Mad5cout]

you basically just decribed the quills and ostrons.

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

I would rather have them develop the Sentients to be a faction with their own tilesets and unique gameplay myself.... Which seems to be where they are going.

I would also like the to revisit the corrupted and make them more interesting. Reused enemies from other factions with a gold tint and face mask kinda felt like they went with a placeholder enemy type back then and stuck with it over the years where imho the towers should have it's own unique guards... Or at least have unique enemies only found in said tilesets like those big worm things you could control in the War Within.

[DrakeWurrum]

On 2018-07-02 at 4:55 PM, Mad5cout said:

you basically just decribed the quills and ostrons.

Um. No, I didn't. They're not a religious organization in the slightest. The Ostrons are survivors who rely on that living tower, which is this "Unum" they talk about, for food and protection. The Quills are a mysterious group, but they're not some religious sect spanning the Orokin system.

We don't much know what the Unum is, but it doesn't seem interested in anything that has nothing to do with Cetus or the Plains.

Neither group worships either the Void or the Orokin, that's for sure.

On 2018-07-02 at 8:03 PM, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

I would rather have them develop the Sentients to be a faction with their own tilesets and unique gameplay myself.... Which seems to be where they are going.

That is obviously where they're going, but I think adding a new human faction would improve the game either way, especially since there's plenty of locations they could add in the Sol system. Don't think short-term.

Edited July 16, 2018 by DrakeWurrum

[Urlan]

11 hours ago, DrakeWurrum said:

 The Quills are a mysterious group, but they're not some religious sect spanning the Orokin system.

We don't much know what the Unum is, but it doesn't seem interested in anything that has nothing to do with Cetus or the Plains.

Neither group worships either the Void or the Orokin, that's for sure.

That is obviously where they're going, but I think adding a new human faction would improve the game either way, especially since there's plenty of locations they could add in the Sol system. Don't think short-term.

Quill Onkko has lines that describe him communicating to other Quill throughout the system, for example, Mercury, and Venus. So I wouldn't say the Unum and the Qullls have nothing to do outside the Plains and Cetus or are not spanning the System. Hek, Konzu mentioned that even the people of Cetus sometimes leave and start markets or Bazaars in other areas like the fate of his poor Uncle. Religious toward the Void and Orokin, no; I doubt either have such feelings toward the Orokin or Void but the People of Cetus do have the Jars meant to calm the spirits of the Orokin and thus ward off bad luck. This shows they are superstitious at least towards the old masters of the system.

[Gandergear]

We have 6 unique syndicates in the game, if DE wanted to each could be fleshed out into unqiue subfactions we could fight.

[foterCZ]

I actually wanted more alien factions, but a human faction based entirely around religion could be interesting.

[KochDerFrettchen]

We ARE the religious faction, think about all the old-world (well, current world to us) religious references in warframes and tenno schools. :^)

[Guest]

I would rather them make more use of the syndicates. Maybe them taking parts of planets or whatnot, with them as enemies or allies etc etc. 

[Mad5cout]

14 hours ago, DrakeWurrum said:

Um. No, I didn't. They're not a religious organization in the slightest. The Ostrons are survivors who rely on that living tower, which is this "Unum" they talk about, for food and protection. The Quills are a mysterious group, but they're not some religious sect spanning the Orokin system.

We don't much know what the Unum is, but it doesn't seem interested in anything that has nothing to do with Cetus or the Plains.

Neither group worships either the Void or the Orokin, that's for sure.

1

The Unum is a *being* that resides in the tower that both the Ostrons and Quills worship and attribute their livelihood and future security to.  If that isn't an example of a diety and religion, then the word is completely meaningless.

From the wiki:  "The Quills are a mysterious monastic order that serve the equally enigmatic Unum, a being who resides within the Orokin Tower at Cetus in the Plains of Eidolon."

Monastic is in reference to monks.  As in, a religious order. 

[Urlan]

2 hours ago, Mad5cout said:

The Unum is a *being* that resides in the tower that both the Ostrons and Quills worship and attribute their livelihood and future security to.  If that isn't an example of a diety and religion, then the word is completely meaningless.

From the wiki:  "The Quills are a mysterious monastic order that serve the equally enigmatic Unum, a being who resides within the Orokin Tower at Cetus in the Plains of Eidolon."

Monastic is in reference to monks.  As in, a religious order. 

Well, for the most part, its more a veneration in the case of the Ostrons but a definite spirituality regarding the Unum is there. The Quills, while they organize themselves as a monastic order, and obviously venerate the Unum as well, I would figure they are more akin to Corrupted for other Towers. The Unum just being the will of the Tower just as a neural sentry in the Void or Ordis for our Orbiter and Landing Craft. For the most part, its obvious the people of Cetus and the Quills by extension venerate the Unum for its care of them and the Quills are in service to it but I figure when it comes to what makes up the Unum the people of Cetus are more knowledgeable than most in how a Kuva Temple Tower works.

[-Narauko-]

I'd like to see Syndicate wars kinda like how the outbreak and war between Grineer and Corpus plays out with the alerts but a little deeper.

[Mad5cout]

2 hours ago, Urlan said:

Well, for the most part, its more a veneration in the case of the Ostrons but a definite spirituality regarding the Unum is there. The Quills, while they organize themselves as a monastic order, and obviously venerate the Unum as well, I would figure they are more akin to Corrupted for other Towers. The Unum just being the will of the Tower just as a neural sentry in the Void or Ordis for our Orbiter and Landing Craft. For the most part, its obvious the people of Cetus and the Quills by extension venerate the Unum for its care of them and the Quills are in service to it but I figure when it comes to what makes up the Unum the people of Cetus are more knowledgeable than most in how a Kuva Temple Tower works.

You do realize that by using venerate, which is a synonym for worship, really doesn't strengthen your case at all.  The Unum is considered a divine being to which they attribute their lives and destinies.  You can say they venerate or worship or idolize or follow or whatever you want.  The bottom line is that it has all of the hallmarks of an organized religion.  And trying to parse the difference between the Ostrons and Quills is like trying to parse out the difference between the Abrahamic religions - same God, different beliefs and relationships with it.  I'm not really sure that is meaningful beyond a discussion about the minutia of the lore.

We are playing a game about space ninjas and these factions basically are space Buddhists or Taoists.  Just because it doesn't look like Christianity doesn't mean it isn't a religion.

[Urlan]

39 minutes ago, Mad5cout said:

You do realize that by using venerate, which is a synonym for worship, really doesn't strengthen your case at all.  The Unum is considered a divine being to which they attribute their lives and destinies.  You can say they venerate or worship or idolize or follow or whatever you want.  The bottom line is that it has all of the hallmarks of an organized religion.  And trying to parse the difference between the Ostrons and Quills is like trying to parse out the difference between the Abrahamic religions - same God, different beliefs and relationships with it.  I'm not really sure that is meaningful beyond a discussion about the minutia of the lore.

We are playing a game about space ninjas and these factions basically are space Buddhists or Taoists.  Just because it doesn't look like Christianity doesn't mean it isn't a religion.

Would you consider the veneration of one's ancestors or the deceased to be worship of them? Would you consider the spirits of the dead to be gods then? There are differences between holding something in respect and holding them with deep reverence and viewing them as deities controlling destiny. The Unum is the personality in control of the Kuva Temple Tower at the center of Cetus. Quills are an order dedicated to serving the Unum and aiding her will.

My case, is that you are jumping too heavily onto this conclusion and while certainly some hold beliefs of a supernatural element to the Unum as I pointed out, it is also shown that many feel it more a feeling of tradition and important to their culture than any religious or spiritual depth. In this case, it is not a matter of what religion you desire to hold to, its a matter of how and why they believe it.

[Mad5cout]

Religions don't require a bonafide deity to be a religion.  Again, your definition of religion is far too narrow and not applicable to its usage IRL, let alone a video game about space ninjas.

[wtflag]

The syndicates are already factions and i think they deserved to be expanded on. 

Maybe each faction should have their own base/titleset and unique questline and high level operatives with unique weaponry and uniforms.

Maybe there can be unique weekly missions that let's us storm an enemy faction's base to earn a huge chunk of syndicate points at once.

Maybe we should be able to call on favors (at cost of standing and crafting materials) from factions which we have the high standings to help us in non-syndicate missions like sorties which may be harder for new players. 

Maybe there can be more syndicate weapons, consumables, fashion, archwing. Or even some POE items like lens or amps.

Maybe there can be bonus objectives in the enemy bases that is made easier or more lucative while using your syndicate weapons.

There is a lot that can be done here and I believe that DE should focus on increasing the depth of the gameplay/lose on existing systems.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 17, 2018 by wtflag