Ember Rework!

[Reaver_X]

So i came up with a killer idea for Ember, and its something a bit unique as well, this mostly involves her 4, tho i don't have a good idea on how to change her other 3 base abilities, but i think you'll like the change i've come up with for her World on Fire 🙂

 

now first i just wanna get this out of the way, i feel like fireblast should just be done away with and replaced with a different ability, no idea what. However, if not, they at least should just make it into a straight dps field, enemies take damage while standing inside, not just standing on the flames.

now for her 4

 

WoF should be changed so that its a transformed state, where ember literally cloaks her self in flames, and her other 3 abilities all get upgrades, this form change would be a toggle and drain energy, and her new upgraded abilities in this form would also use additional energy on top of this, but they'd be quite powerful. Example.

 

Fireball becomes Firestream

Firestream: Ember emits a powerful stream of flame, drains 5 energy per second, but ticks for 400 damage twice per second, each tick, the damage gets doubled. gauranteed fire procs

Accelerant becomes Flash Burn

Flash Burn: Enemies within a 25 meter radius are exposed to an almost instant burning heat wave that char's and hardens they're exterior, they are unable to move, armor is halved and all fire damage to affected mobs is doubled.

Fire Blast becomes Eruption

Eruption: Basically becomes what WoF currently is, except it comes complete with the firequake effect, and it occurs from an epicenter and spreads out wards, and its not a toggle ability but rather has a duration. i don't know what the base damage on this ability should be but i know it should be relatively high. Needs more work.

Pressing 4 will revert ember back to her normal mode, but holding it will do something different....

Supernova: Ember will expend ALL remaining energy into a massive burst that will deal damage to mobs equal to 75% of they're max EHP, survivors will be inflicted with a fire proc, has a fixed range of 50 meters, and once used, ember will be unable to enter WoF mode for 15 seconds.

i didnt really put in enough time tonite to try and better balance this, i was more focused on just getting this idea out there because it seems really unique and would give ember a really strong presence in endgame.

So, what do u think?

[(PSN)LubzinNJ]

Before you can do any serious rework of Ember they need to rework Heat damage to be something meaningful. Anything else is patchwork. Simple fact.

[Reaver_X]

yes, this is true, heat damage does need a rework, but keeping that in mind, what say you to this idea AFTER heat damage is made useful?

[RealPandemonium]

24 minutes ago, (PS4)LubzinNJ said:

Before you can do any serious rework of Ember they need to rework Heat damage to be something meaningful. Anything else is patchwork. Simple fact.

Heat damage is fine.  The entire gripe with Heat damage is that it doesn't ignore armor (like almost every other damage type in the game.)  Enemy scaling values, particularly for Grineer, have not been updated or evaluated for 5 years now.  Damage 3.0 is long overdue.  

[Trichouette]

il y a 2 minutes, RealPandemonium a dit :

Heat damage is fine.  The entire gripe with Heat damage is that it doesn't ignore armor (like almost every other damage type in the game.)  Enemy scaling values, particularly for Grineer, have not been updated or evaluated for 5 years now.  Damage 3.0 is long overdue.  

It also doesn't stack.

[(PSN)LubzinNJ]

1 hour ago, RealPandemonium said:

Heat damage is fine.  The entire gripe with Heat damage is that it doesn't ignore armor (like almost every other damage type in the game.)  Enemy scaling values, particularly for Grineer, have not been updated or evaluated for 5 years now.  Damage 3.0 is long overdue.  

Hey you know what you just suggested? A rework of heat damage.

[RealPandemonium]

10 hours ago, Trichouette said:

It also doesn't stack.

Heat status is a hybrid of damage and CC, and you can also use weak Heat procs to indefinitely refresh strong Heat procs, so it's actually not so bad.  

9 hours ago, (PS4)LubzinNJ said:

Hey you know what you just suggested? A rework of heat damage.

Reworking the damage system as a whole might include a heat damage rework, or it could be done without adjusting the modifiers/procs at all.  Armor is the biggest headache in the current system, and that has nothing to do with heat damage.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb Trichouette:

It also doesn't stack.

Does it need to? For her at least? That this status is a chance on her passive (WoF, Fireballs napalm, nothing on fireblasts halo) and the active parts are a guarantee (Fireball itself, blast) makes use of that quite well. You don't quite stack it to begin with, her kit buffs it instead, makes sure theyr damage is good to begin with and provides you with buttons to refresh them.

If anything, i'd like it to be automaticly overwritten by the strongest heat procc (if this isn't allready the case)

[RealPandemonium]

29 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

If anything, i'd like it to be automaticly overwritten by the strongest heat procc (if this isn't allready the case)

It's not the case, but that could be a good passive for Ember.  Could make her much stronger, but I bet people wouldn't appreciate it and would still complain that she's garbage until some youtuber posts a popular video exploiting the mechanic.  

Edited July 4, 2018 by RealPandemonium

[Trichouette]

Il y a 4 heures, RealPandemonium a dit :

Heat status is a hybrid of damage and CC, and you can also use weak Heat procs to indefinitely refresh strong Heat procs, so it's actually not so bad.  

But "strong heat proc" aren't that strong, especially since they don't bypass amor nor shield.

And it's a game in which you kills things so quickly, who have time to "refresh procs"...?

Il y a 3 heures, (PS4)CoolD2108 a dit :

Does it need to? For her at least? That this status is a chance on her passive (WoF, Fireballs napalm, nothing on fireblasts halo) and the active parts are a guarantee (Fireball itself, blast) makes use of that quite well. You don't quite stack it to begin with, her kit buffs it instead, makes sure theyr damage is good to begin with and provides you with buttons to refresh them. 

If anything, i'd like it to be automaticly overwritten by the strongest heat procc (if this isn't allready the case)

I was just talking about another reason why heat damage proc are bad.

Low damage / doesn't ignore armor or shield / doesn't stack.

 

If you look at what makes toxin and slash strong, it's these things, mostly the shield/armor ignore and the fact they can be stacked very quickly.

Il y a 2 heures, RealPandemonium a dit :

It's not the case, but that could be a good passive for Ember.  Could make her much stronger, but I bet people wouldn't appreciate it and would still complain that she's garbage until some youtuber posts a popular video exploiting the mechanic.  

Again, that's because nobody want a character that takes so much time to just kill one enemy.

You apply several heat proc to a target, and only the best damage proc is kept, that's still weak to kill a big enemy.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 25 Minuten schrieb Trichouette:

I was just talking about another reason why heat damage proc are bad.

Low damage / doesn't ignore armor or shield / doesn't stack.

 

If you look at what makes toxin and slash strong, it's these things, mostly the shield/armor ignore and the fact they can be stacked very quickly.

 

Can that one really be generalized? What makes slash proccs attractive is the finisher damage. Sure there's the people who as much as reduce theyr duration on rivens but the necessarity to stack them roots in theyr low innitial damage. Anyone but Ash gotta deal with a significantly lower damage per procc and you want to aim for a high boost even when playing melee. On ash you mostly just let them tick (shurikens, its high range means quite the path to reach anything for enemys) or you want to avoid them alltogether (bladestorm, only a kill triggers trickery)

The one thing toxic was used for at all was its range back on saryns prior build. One overkill burst did spread a part of that to all enemys in range. No need to stack that one eather.

Fires procc damage isn't low. It's on the same level as toxic adding a small layer Cc. The damage is beein boosted quite a bit so the overall damage is higher to begin with, get a little feel for it and you can simply pass enemys that don't die on the first hit (quite comfortable when using melee with a certain mobility on its stance, simply perfect on the zenistar). That they can be refreshed simply means that her lower easyer proccs strongly benefit the controlled stronger ones. A difference in use isn't essencially an issue, theyr only flaw may be that low proccs are able to obstruct stronger ones on her that's why i'd rather see a change there and if anything else a boost in damage/procc then unnecessary stacking.

Edited July 4, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Arcira]

I though about a similar thing "Exalted Fire" which boosts all her abilities if toggled but remains her WoF in some way. Her new passive would be a permanent low damage aoe heat effect wich would transform into the WoF effect while boosted by Exalted Fire. However I scraped that idea for now because of the way status effects work. I´d like to see a ramping up mechaninc depending on the strength and frequency of the base damage type instead of a chance based one (at least for Heat procs).

For your Fireball suggestion I think your idea is not bad or anything but I doubt it will be enougth to make it viable.

For enemies affected by the Exaltd Fire improved Accelerant effect my idea is the unique ability for Ember to stack Ignite damage.

For Flame Blast I agree it should deal damage inside the Flame Ring as well and the Fire Sphere doesn´t fit this ability at all. In addition it should be permanent like Frost´s Snow Globe.

Edited July 5, 2018 by Arcira

[RealPandemonium]

5 hours ago, Trichouette said:

But "strong heat proc" aren't that strong, especially since they don't bypass amor nor shield.

And it's a game in which you kills things so quickly, who have time to "refresh procs"...?

Again, that's because nobody want a character that takes so much time to just kill one enemy.

You apply several heat proc to a target, and only the best damage proc is kept, that's still weak to kill a big enemy.

If you're killing the enemies so fast in the first place, why do you need DoTs?  At least Heat procs also have a CC component.  The other benefit of big heat procs is that Ember boosts their damage by 400+% to make them much bigger, and can continuously CC enemies with them to keep them burning until death.

Exploiting big Slash procs from a limited selection of abusable sources is just another form of armor bandaid.  Armor is a Damage 2.0 problem; not an Ember problem.

Toxin ignoring shields is nice, but shields comprise a smaller percent of EHP as Corpus go up in level; Accelerant-boosted Heat damage takes Corpus down faster than Toxin does at levels where extra damage matters.