Rework the Limbo rework? - Stasis ability

[(XBOX)EPOSSTYLE]

Limbo being so squishy, all it takes is bubble u can't get going or gets popped immediately to put u on your back. At the least they should retreat your bubble. If u cant breathe the air how are gonna fight. Under level 40 i dont even consider gameplay. yes your a god at low levels. If that's where your gameplay is your golden.

[LordDarthDan]

On 2018-07-10 at 9:19 PM, (PS4)lagrue said:

WRONG.  The change was made because stasis was blatantly intrusive and effectively took away 2/3 weapons from THREE other player's kits while it was active. 

You confirmed every word I said. Rush is  engraved so deep in your mind that you consider stopping your weapons' projectiles for mere 50 seconds (would be less, BTW, if Limbo saw you all doing it right) "disabling" them. This is the heart of the Limbo problem. 

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

On 2018-07-15 at 5:00 AM, mactrent said:

True enough, most frames don't have a direct counter like e.g., Hydroid does.  Most frames are at least able to use their weapons to counter them at range, without leaving or nullifying whatever protection or durability they have.  Limbo has to exit both his bubble and the Rift in order to counter them even with ranged weapons, but at least he can Rift Surge to protect himself a little, so he's not completely helpless.  Seems tough, but fair enough.  I don't use him against Corpus other than for spies or with very low range for mobdef - fair or not, it is admittedly quite annoying.

This isn't entirely true. One thing I learned about fighting nullifiers as Limbo is they can't deal with your rift dash.

If cataclysm pops, just rift dash. It doesn't require energy and has no casting time. Head for the nullifier and go inside the bubble. Nothing can stop you from getting in there. Once you're in, just arca plasmor the crewman carrying the nullifier in the face. If its too hot, just dash again.

You don't need to pop their bubble from a distance to kill them. That's actually more dangerous because you'll be surrounded by other enemies while trying to get through their bubble with your guns. In addition, other warframes need to spend energy to give them their survivability buff to make them invisible or invulnerable or have more armor. Limbo doesn't. He just dashes and nothing can hit him anymore.

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

I used Limbo on another sortie assassination. After his stasis rework, he's become a very good assassin. Can't wait to get a sortie assassination for Vey Hek or Sargus. I already tried the non sortie versions. They become borderline helpless.

 

[(PSN)N7_Dredgen]

5 hours ago, LordDarthDan said:

You confirmed every word I said. Rush is  engraved so deep in your mind that you consider stopping your weapons' projectiles for mere 50 seconds (would be less, BTW, if Limbo saw you all doing it right) "disabling" them. This is the heart of the Limbo problem. 

No that doesn't confirm what you said at all in any sense of the word.  With the mental gymnastics you had to perform to come to that conclusion you could be an Olympic Gold Medalist.  The problem isn't slowing down - the problem is you dictating how I play, point blank.   

Aside from speed you must surely realize people put different elements on different weapons... if you take away 2 of my wepaons, you're taking away 66% of my elemental diversity. 

Also if anything my melee speeds things up and lets me rush around more... I use Sigma and Octantis with max P. Fury and a Riven that further increases speed - due to the nature of how Sigma throws its shield around, it gains alot of momentum during combos - I literally whip around the battlefield with it way faster than anybody ever could with guns or bullet jumping even.   I use melee 10x more than guns as it is.   Your point is not only lacking in a basic thought process - it's blatantly wrong.  You know nothing about how I play the game, yet you seek to be the one to control how I do.

All kinds of other frame abilities slow down combat flow - but no other frame powers took my weapons away.  It's been fixed, deal with it.  Adapt or move on, like everybody else who has their abilities changed has to do.  

It's funny you cut out 3/4 of my original post to suit your own needs.  I explicitly state the problem was intrusiveness and not the speed... so then you turn around and say 'see, the problem is slowing things down."  I mean seriously, what is wrong in your thinking process that this somehow makes sense to you.  You are suffering literal delusions.  You're believing things made up in your head and even worst you're using them try and win debates.  

Protip: If somebody disagrees with you, it's generally a good idea not to make up a bunch of preconceived notions about them and chuck out completely false statements about their opinions.  It devalues your own opinion even further because it indicates you have no actual response, so you turn to trying (and failing) to discredit your opponent.  I know you probably think you had an "aha!" moment where you thought you trumped me, but I assure you anybody with more than 10 brain cells will see this and also wonder what's wrong with you.   

Edited July 17, 2018 by (PS4)lagrue

[LordDarthDan]

Heh... The only reason I cut 3/4th of the original post is because I agree with what's said there. And I'm not trying to dictate how you play. What I am trying to "dictate" is what not to whine about.

Following your logic, if Limbo could dictate what weapon to use (as you, who for some reason assumed that I attacked your whole post rather than simply pointed out that this particular point is arguable, are still stating), then I could say that Frost dictates me not to use my guns as his bubble stops allied projectiles as well as the enemy's. And while I do feel frustrated when my shots get blocked, I do not bring that frustration out to the forums, as Limbo haters did.

The line of "mental gymnastics" you failed to follow (likely because of a few preconceived notions you have about me) is actually pretty straightforward: you are stating that Limbo disables your 2 weapons - it's a fact. All that Limbo actually does is pause their projectiles mid-flight, and they still hit and do damage afterwards - this is also a fact. Therefore, you consider putting your projectiles into stasis the same as "disabling" them - the point I made.

My mistake here was going ahead and applying my years of observations of the majority of Warframe EU server's playerbase to a random guy I know nothing about (and to whom they may not apply at all). 

Most frames had their abilities changed for "balance" reasons, or in other words, because Devs decided it's more beneficial to the game this way. I adapted and moved on. But Limbo's ability has been changed because of players (and again, I am not talking about you, but about the people I come across a lot) who decided to collectively whine about how Limbo is a "troll frame" and how they cannot use any weapons except for melee when his Stasis is active. It is them who failed to adapt and move on.

It is very good that you have your own opinion and stand by it. But if someone points out that they consider a certain part of your argumentation wrong, and does so in a method that you dislike, it is usually not the best course of action to verbally attack the person, rather than trying do disprove their actual arguments.

Protip: emotionally influencing potential readers against me and creating certain preconceptions in their minds might not be the most efficient course of action here: this is not politics, and you are not running for election.

Edited July 17, 2018 by LordDarthDan

[mactrent]

11 hours ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

This isn't entirely true. One thing I learned about fighting nullifiers as Limbo is they can't deal with your rift dash.

If cataclysm pops, just rift dash. It doesn't require energy and has no casting time. Head for the nullifier and go inside the bubble. Nothing can stop you from getting in there. Once you're in, just arca plasmor the crewman carrying the nullifier in the face. If its too hot, just dash again.

You don't need to pop their bubble from a distance to kill them. That's actually more dangerous because you'll be surrounded by other enemies while trying to get through their bubble with your guns. In addition, other warframes need to spend energy to give them their survivability buff to make them invisible or invulnerable or have more armor. Limbo doesn't. He just dashes and nothing can hit him anymore.

It is entirely true, but not the entire truth.  I didn't add the arguments you did because I didn't see them as invalidating the point I agreed with - they're relevant, but not the whole question

You seem to agree with me that taking down nullifiers at range is not only not built into his skillset (like Hydroid or Excal), but also uniquely tricky for our squishy gentleman.  The fact that he can also take them down just like everyone else can from the inside doesn't change that he's the hardest to take them down at range with, which is 2/3 of the available counter-nully options.  The fact that he can re-establish his protection after doing so without further cost is nice, but the cost still occurs as he's got to get his Stasis going again, and his flow of targets coming his way.

On whether and how this situation we described should be changed, I'm ambivalent.  Should he be the only frame that's infeasible to avoid nullies with (as opposed to needing to chase them down)?  Should he be the only frame whose ult is not just ineffective, but un-cast just because there are nullies in the area?  He's the only frame with free, infinite protection, so on paper it's fair.  If there's a way that makes for better gameplay (like shrinking the Cataclysm rather than instantly popping it), that would be a pleasant surprise if it was implemented.

4 hours ago, LordDarthDan said:

Most frames had their abilities changed for "balance" reasons, or in other words, because Devs decided it's more beneficial to the game this way. I adapted and moved on. But Limbo's ability has been changed because of players (and again, I am not talking about you, but about the people I come across a lot) who decided to collectively whine about how Limbo is a "troll frame" and how they cannot use any weapons except for melee when his Stasis is active. It is them who failed to adapt and move on.

This feels like a false dichotomy to me.  "Devs decided it's more beneficial to the game" vs "because of players (...) who decided to collectively whine" is not an either/or deal, here. 

Name one buff or nerf that the devs have done recently because it's more beneficial to the game, and I'll point you to players who had at least suggested a fix or pointed out the problem DE tried to solve.  DE decides what benefits the game, not just the "players who decided to whine", but also not you.  DE did make this change, for whatever reasons they did, so you can complain about the complaining, or you can move on, following your logic.

This forum is for the purpose of improvement suggestions and problem statements, one of which was: 'I don't enjoy it when my bullets are frozen without my having a choice, I think the game would be more fun if another player couldn't designate a whole tile as a "wait a whole minute before anything happens, or switch to melee u scrub" area.'  DE made one of many possible changes they could have done to address the issue, and calling this point "whining" doesn't mean it's not also valid.

Edited July 17, 2018 by mactrent
He didn't call anyone whiners, just said that they were whining. Giving the benefit of the doubt here.

[NecromancerX69]

On 2018-07-10 at 8:19 PM, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

Nerf Limbo. He's ridiculous and makes this game boring.

No one is forcing you to play Limbo.

You are nothing more than a heretic.

[NecromancerX69]

On 2018-07-14 at 3:03 PM, (XB1)EPOSSTYLE said:

Limbo being so squishy, all it takes is bubble u can't get going or gets popped immediately to put u on your back. At the least they should retreat your bubble. If u cant breathe the air how are gonna fight. Under level 40 i dont even consider gameplay. yes your a god at low levels. If that's where your gameplay is your golden.

Limbo is a God in all levels, I hate saying this but you need to get good.

As for the bubble if corpus is your problem you need to change your build to negative range. Limbo doesn't need to stay in the rift 24/7, you need to man up and face level 100 bombards in the face. There is a reason we have strong weaponry. If you are still having problems you need to practice, I recommend starting small, start with a Banshee sonar build (never touch your 4th) on MOT (Void) and try to survive till 30 waves or more. That helped me get better with any squishy warframe, the trick is always keep moving + use cover.

[SixDimensions]

On 2018-07-10 at 9:36 AM, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

I agree with this. As much as i love Limbo and the way Stasis worked before it was purely style. 

I kill at a much faster rate now, it would definitely be a downgrade to bring it back as it was. Even if it existed in an augment the team would kill all your targets, and on solo you would just be down a mod slot with no actual benefit. The augment would have to include something else to make it worth anything. 

I completely agree.  Stasis should not affect Limbo or allies.  Affecting Limbo means you're just CC now and nothing else since allies can/will wipe out every enemy before you line up and release your shots. Was it fun? Yes.  Should it come back? No.  And not as an augment either.  It would be a waste of an augment slot on the frame and it would limit better augments from being made in its place. (Example: similar to Cata aug; each kill increases duration of stasis thereby alleviating the low duration. Or using banish on surged targets will reset the duration or maybe add a second for each surged enemy, thus improving power synergy.)

On 2018-07-14 at 4:46 PM, (XB1)EPOSSTYLE said:

Limbo is useless against nullifiers. I think that needs looking at?

I actually like this balance because Limbo is already very overpowered. Limbo is by far my favorite frame, no doubt. But this limit is pretty good actually.  Easily thwarted by using Operator to dash in, trash the nullifier, and then return to Limbo. But if you aren't paying attention then the nullifier can ruin your day, as it should

[(PSN)psycofang]

7 minutes ago, NecromancerX69 said:

you need to man up and face level 100 bombards in the face

But against the Grineer Limbo has no reason to face level 100.bombards to the face.  In fact since LoRN got taken out theres 0 reason for Limbo to ever leave the rift vs the grineer in general. 

 

Vs the Corpus this could hold water but the only fact remains is to just target the nullifiers crewman, wax him, then go back to spamming banish and wiping out rest of them.

Negative Range can be counter intuituve to using positive range which has proven utility in almost every game mode. 

Maybe further explain why effectively gimping yourself and the wide breadth of control is a good idea on a frame that emphasises wide range control? Im not understanding your stance in short as i see no benefit.

[mactrent]

9 minutes ago, NecromancerX69 said:

No one is forcing you to play Limbo.

While true, also nobody was forced to play with CataStasis Limbo, pre-nerf WoF and Miragulor, and that didn't mean they didn't warrant changes for one reason or another.  It's true that DE has limited dev resources, and they need to keep added lots of new content to survive rather than endlessly touching up old content, but they do still fix things they perceive to be a problem.  Could his problem statement be more constructive and in-depth about why he feels this way?  Yes.  Does that mean we should call names?  No, no it does not.

Get good has a place, but Banshee has 1) the constant expectation of new enemies, rather than a sudden lack of any protection, and 2) more protection with Silence than Limbo does outside the Rift.  Those habits don't carry over to Limbo because rolling takes the encounter into another dimension, where he can freeze time.  There's also the entirely separate question I outlined above, which is "when every other frame has a much better option for taking out Nullies before they get to them, should Limbo really be the outlier here?"  An answer of "yes" is fair, especially given his outlier status on defense without nullies, but not the only answer.

Upvote for a good squishframe survival self-tutorial and low-range suggestion if you're not gonna use/spread Rift Surge, but Limbo doesn't need that stuff anywhere else, and Rift Surge is idiosyncratic as it is.

[LordDarthDan]

48 minutes ago, mactrent said:

Name one buff or nerf that the devs have done recently because it's more beneficial to the game, and I'll point you to players who had at least suggested a fix or pointed out the problem DE tried to solve.  DE decides what benefits the game, not just the "players who decided to whine", but also not you.  DE did make this change, for whatever reasons they did, so you can complain about the complaining, or you can move on, following your logic.

Yeah... I really can't disagree with that. It just drives me mad that those who opposed Limbo's recently changed ways got what they wanted, for one reason or another, but those opposing the change on Volt, for example, did not.

And another thing that drives me mad is the fact that of all my suggestions not a single one was answered by anyone from DE. Like if I had no say in the game I play AT ALL.

I will move on. To fight another day. Shooting into the fog until I hit.

Thank you. 

[mactrent]

1 hour ago, LordDarthDan said:

And another thing that drives me mad is the fact that of all my suggestions not a single one was answered by anyone from DE. Like if I had no say in the game I play AT ALL.

I will move on. To fight another day. Shooting into the fog until I hit.

Thank you. 

If you haven't seen it, I highly recommend watching Reb's interview for the NoClip documentary.  They can't feasibly respond to every request (by orders of magnitude), but they do watch and see what general trends and issues there are, and they try to make broad changes so that as many people as possible feel heard.  I've personally "felt heard" when they've made many little changes (praise Pablo! join the cult!), even if I never mentioned anything or even realized they could be improved.  "They get it, too," I say to myself.  I continue to promote what I see as improvements to existing content (since 'existing content' is what I know enough to talk about) on the forums, and I'm still quite pleased with most of the things they aim to do, whether I think it could be better implemented or not.

+1 for continuing to shoot into the fog.  Let's be awesome together, Tenno.

Edited July 17, 2018 by mactrent

[(XBOX)EPOSSTYLE]

I understand being good but not all scenarios will present u with the option of survivability. All I'm saying is as soon as your hit u go from full health and shields to dead. There's is no defense or preparation for that except rezing yourself? 

[el_chanis]

On 2018-07-09 at 5:15 PM, LordDarthDan said:

Now that Limbo Prime is out (which has been one of my most anticipated Primes, to be honest, along with Zephyr) I decided to look at the frame again, and made a dreadful discovery: Stasis no longer stops my projectiles mid-air.

 I know all too well why ths change has been made. It is in the nature of Warframe players to do stuff fast, and few would actually want to wait until Limbo turns off Stasis for their projectiles to hit. But to players like myself who preferred the system as it was before this change, it is terrible.

 However, there is a very simple way to keep both parties happy: make Limbo's Stasis stop only Limbo's projectiles (be that his own or of any other Limbo who wishes to join in with the art of time freezing), and allow projectiles of less patient allies to pass through and deal damage as usual.

 Another useful change someone already suggested would be to allow Limbo's Stasis to be toggled on or off the same way as Nekros' Desecrate. Sometimes it runs out before you turn it off, which causes some bugs with indication and all that. So I would suggest also adding a singular indicator for everyone (in the buffs row) to display when the Stasis is on. This would rise overall situational awareness of the team.

 That's it for now, I'm eager to hear what people think about this and I really hope someone form DE will stumble upon this suggestion one day.

 Over and out.

Limbo even as it is, remains very cancerous to gameplay. He STILL needs a serious rework. The ability to troll actively (and the inability to report that behavior) makes limbo the most disruptive frame EVER.

His ability to control what other players can or can't do needs to go ASAP. Nothing, and i mean NOTHING justify that kind of power over other players expirence.

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

9 hours ago, mactrent said:

It is entirely true, but not the entire truth.  I didn't add the arguments you did because I didn't see them as invalidating the point I agreed with - they're relevant, but not the whole question

You seem to agree with me that taking down nullifiers at range is not only not built into his skillset (like Hydroid or Excal), but also uniquely tricky for our squishy gentleman.  The fact that he can also take them down just like everyone else can from the inside doesn't change that he's the hardest to take them down at range with, which is 2/3 of the available counter-nully options.  The fact that he can re-establish his protection after doing so without further cost is nice, but the cost still occurs as he's got to get his Stasis going again, and his flow of targets coming his way.

On whether and how this situation we described should be changed, I'm ambivalent.  Should he be the only frame that's infeasible to avoid nullies with (as opposed to needing to chase them down)?  Should he be the only frame whose ult is not just ineffective, but un-cast just because there are nullies in the area?  He's the only frame with free, infinite protection, so on paper it's fair.  If there's a way that makes for better gameplay (like shrinking the Cataclysm rather than instantly popping it), that would be a pleasant surprise if it was implemented.

This feels like a false dichotomy to me.  "Devs decided it's more beneficial to the game" vs "because of players (...) who decided to collectively whine" is not an either/or deal, here. 

Name one buff or nerf that the devs have done recently because it's more beneficial to the game, and I'll point you to players who had at least suggested a fix or pointed out the problem DE tried to solve.  DE decides what benefits the game, not just the "players who decided to whine", but also not you.  DE did make this change, for whatever reasons they did, so you can complain about the complaining, or you can move on, following your logic.

This forum is for the purpose of improvement suggestions and problem statements, one of which was: 'I don't enjoy it when my bullets are frozen without my having a choice, I think the game would be more fun if another player couldn't designate a whole tile as a "wait a whole minute before anything happens, or switch to melee u scrub" area.'  DE made one of many possible changes they could have done to address the issue, and calling this point "whining" doesn't mean it's not also valid.

Believe it or not, I can actually use Limbo on Corpus sorties effectively. Nothing stops me from packing a Neutralizing Justice Mitter because Limbo doesn't need primaries to fight. Despite the changes to stasis, he is still one of the best melee frames in disguise. And in an objective based mission, Limbo is the only one that can keep the nullifier crew man alive after permanently popping its bubble preventing more nullifiers from spawning.

Nullifiers screw up everyone's abilities. Its like falling into a pit. The Scrumbus have better power negating mechanics. I think its just unpolished game design.

[kingdomeTHEMADcthulhu]

for the stopping gunfire augment would be best  and stasis being halfed is annoying and stupid all it has done is force us to recast what should have been done is just made the cast cost x2 its not like you cant run it low cost that would have had the same results and yet it wouldn't be so god dam tedious on a side note the hell is the point of his 3 all it has ever done is cause trouble for groups suddenly we cant kill S#&$ cus its frozen out of a void its honestly the most pain in the as power ever it could be better use as a grappling hook puling enemy's in the void to the center (after all how many times have we had them stuck on the edge unable to hit them cus the void is shrinking or there walking out of it  or even a toggle to solve the gunfire issue tho a aug could do that just as easily  id prefer the grappling hook myself i think that would fix limbo and the idea of stasis being a toggle is going to drain you dry  its better to have a higher cost then toggle

[LordDarthDan]

What exactly is that "grappling hook" idea?

Toggle won't run you dry if it's transferred into energy per second, not per cast. 

[mactrent]

10 hours ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

Believe it or not, I can actually use Limbo on Corpus sorties effectively. Nothing stops me from packing a Neutralizing Justice Mitter because Limbo doesn't need primaries to fight. Despite the changes to stasis, he is still one of the best melee frames in disguise. And in an objective based mission, Limbo is the only one that can keep the nullifier crew man alive after permanently popping its bubble preventing more nullifiers from spawning.

Nullifiers screw up everyone's abilities. Its like falling into a pit. The Scrumbus have better power negating mechanics. I think its just unpolished game design.

I never said it couldn't be done (even trivially with operator), but I did say 1) he doesn't have it built in like some others, 2) he has a harder time than others using his guns (which are a huge amount more interactive/useful since the Stasis change) to do it, and 3) I personally just opt for a different frame when facing Corpus, because other abilities will get the job done too.  Any other frame with that setup will also be able to shoot without losing protection entirely, for even a small amount of time, and no, he's not the only one that can keep an enemy alive if you're into that kind of thing - Equinox, Ivara and Vauban all come to mind off the top of my head.

Nullifiers may screw up every ability that touches them, at least in part - but not all abilities have a physical space like Cataclysm does, and not all of those are instantly and completely nullified - most just have the bubble subtracted from their affected area/volume.  Gara's wall, for example, breaks apart in pieces, so it's not nullified as a unit.  Atlas's wall is not instantly deleted, but loses health over time.  Frost's bubble is the only other spell that's entirely un-cast when it's even touched (the bubble, as opposed to the caster), and it's 1) not an ultimate ability, 2) not an ability that affects any of his other abilities or improves them with synergy, and 3) not a damage ability of any kind.  Cataclysm checks all of those boxes to one extent or another, so again, the argument could be made that he should get some kind of mitigation.

Again, this is all to establish that yes, Limbo with Cataclysm is an outlier on this side of the equation, and I've granted he's an outlier on the other side as well.  I don't think anything you've said has changed that establishment; you can say you don't mind it as is, that you'd prefer to keep it as is for whatever "challenge" that adds to make up for his strength, or whatever.  I'm saying it's a suggestion with at least some merit, and I'd personally react with "ah, cool" if it was implemented, fwiw.

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

55 minutes ago, mactrent said:

I never said it couldn't be done (even trivially with operator), but I did say 1) he doesn't have it built in like some others, 2) he has a harder time than others using his guns (which are a huge amount more interactive/useful since the Stasis change) to do it, and 3) I personally just opt for a different frame when facing Corpus, because other abilities will get the job done too.  Any other frame with that setup will also be able to shoot without losing protection entirely, for even a small amount of time, and no, he's not the only one that can keep an enemy alive if you're into that kind of thing - Equinox, Ivara and Vauban all come to mind off the top of my head.

Nullifiers may screw up every ability that touches them, at least in part - but not all abilities have a physical space like Cataclysm does, and not all of those are instantly and completely nullified - most just have the bubble subtracted from their affected area/volume.  Gara's wall, for example, breaks apart in pieces, so it's not nullified as a unit.  Atlas's wall is not instantly deleted, but loses health over time.  Frost's bubble is the only other spell that's entirely un-cast when it's even touched (the bubble, as opposed to the caster), and it's 1) not an ultimate ability, 2) not an ability that affects any of his other abilities or improves them with synergy, and 3) not a damage ability of any kind.  Cataclysm checks all of those boxes to one extent or another, so again, the argument could be made that he should get some kind of mitigation.

Again, this is all to establish that yes, Limbo with Cataclysm is an outlier on this side of the equation, and I've granted he's an outlier on the other side as well.  I don't think anything you've said has changed that establishment; you can say you don't mind it as is, that you'd prefer to keep it as is for whatever "challenge" that adds to make up for his strength, or whatever.  I'm saying it's a suggestion with at least some merit, and I'd personally react with "ah, cool" if it was implemented, fwiw.

I see what you mean.

I think I have a video where I was using Rift Surge on a Mot survival to counter this. I'll try to find it in my PS4. You see, even though nullifiers completely remove the space Cataclysm occupies, it doesn't remove the banish status on enemies affected by Rift Surge and Radial Banish. They don't even remove it even if the nulifier touches Limbo. Not exactly a recommended strategy if you're playing with a squad, though but it keeps enemies in the rift after Cataclysm is closed.

[mactrent]

On 2018-07-14 at 4:00 PM, mactrent said:

Limbo has to exit both his bubble and the Rift in order to counter them even with ranged weapons, but at least he can Rift Surge to protect himself a little, so he's not completely helpless.  Seems tough, but fair enough.

 

5 minutes ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

They don't even remove it even if the nulifier touches Limbo. Not exactly a recommended strategy if you're playing with a squad, though but it keeps enemies in the rift after Cataclysm is closed.

Yup, for sure.  He'll need to cast Stasis again and either Surge chain or cast another Cataclysm to keep more enemies coming, but that part's well within his wheelhouse and no worse than other frames at all if you had it running.

I agree and have been posting elsewhere that Rift Surge (or the base Rift mechanic that it relies on; I'm not picky on where this gets fixed) needs some improvements for team play.  It's quite powerful, but having the drawback apply only/mostly to someone else is just wrong.  The fact that Limbo can (but is not obligated to nor personally rewarded if he does) mitigate (but not even outright remove, no matter how hard he may try) the drawback for your teammates doesn't fix that wrong-ness, nor do the "benefits" (varies in practice from outstanding to incredibly annoying) make up for the lack of choice in the matter if Limbo isn't good at or doesn't care about this mitigation.  This power is so awesome, but I only use it solo because my teammates would nearly always find it annoying, even the ones who know how it works.

Agreeing with OP again, I think that Limbo's Stasis could be reverted and still be fun IFF 1) Rift was opt-in at will, with the ability to opt-out inside Cataclysm (or Cataclysm starting size reduced; then maybe have it not shrink? suggestions, anyway.), and 2) opting in was not required for killing Rifted enemies with weapons, but perhaps incentivized by giving any benefits that Limbo gets, such as Rift Torrent buffs.