Is Ballas Evil?

[AJ5511]

Spoliers ahead-->

So I'm still a little confused about Ballas, I mean sure he made Umbra kill his son, but what he said about the tenno when you transfer with Umbra was quite poetic. I kinda saw his whole sceme as an experiment to see just how reseliant the tenno are. Also, the Lotus did not seem too hesitant to take his hand, and seeing how what he did to Umbra was in the past, is he nessecairaly evil? What are your thoughts on this? Also is he really dead or can lotus bring him back?

[Voltage]

Does it really matter if we killed him? It's all up to interpretation, but a good man dead and an evil man dead are both just dead men.

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

Ballas, is a psychopathe. He was a chief in the project to create the Warframes from human sacrifices. Volunteers or otherwise. He punished the Dax who was going to expose his treason by turning him into an Umbra and forcing him to kill his son, and then relive the experience over and over. He told Hunhow where the Tenno where hidden. And he, at least, thinks Lotus is Margulis. He is at best a really messed up dude. 

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

I don't find him particularly evil. We gotta remember he's an Orokin, and the Orokin were the epithome of the human race, like gods. Thus they were full of themselves, toying with lifes, creating and destroying lifes, and so on, without regret for doing so, because they're a superior race and it's just that. No remorse save for few. He's not inherently bad imo, he is just arrogant, as he still created Warframes and other stuff for his people, the Orokin.

[[DE]Momaw]

Good people can achieve their objectives without taunts and torture and forcing people to murder their own children. Some of what he's done may have worked out to our advantage, but he did it all for selfish reasons through sadistic means.

[Aleksi134]

Just now, (PS4)MoRockaPDX said:

Ballas, is a psychopathe. He was a chief in the project to create the Warframes from human sacrifices. Volunteers or otherwise. He punished the Dax who was going to expose his treason by turning him into an Umbra and forcing him to kill his son, and then relive the experience over and over. He told Hunhow where the Tenno where hidden. And he, at least, thinks Lotus is Margulis. He is at best a really messed up dude. 

Im glad you arent a psychiatrist.

[AJ5511]

3 minutes ago, --Q--Voltage said:

Does it really matter if we killed him? It's all up to interpretation, but a good man dead and an evil man dead are both just dead men.

IDK if we really killed him though. He does get teleported at the end. And besides he might get infested and come back even stronger like how vor did with the void key

[Rakosta_Kai]

Just now, --Q--Voltage said:

Does it really matter if we killed him? It's all up to interpretation, but a good man dead and an evil man dead are both just dead men.

Unless they become martyrs...Then the content of their actions matter a ton.

@AJ5511,  It's important to note that a person like Ballas views humans much like we humans do ants.

If he kills off a hive of dangerous Humans, his outlook probably wouldn't be much different from ours in killing off a mound of fire ants... It's a matter of perspective.

[(XBOX)Skippy575]

8 minutes ago, AJ5511 said:

Spoliers ahead-->

So I'm still a little confused about Ballas, I mean sure he made Umbra kill his son, but what he said about the tenno when you transfer with Umbra was quite poetic. I kinda saw his whole sceme as an experiment to see just how reseliant the tenno are. Also, the Lotus did not seem too hesitant to take his hand, and seeing how what he did to Umbra was in the past, is he nessecairaly evil? What are your thoughts on this? Also is he really dead or can lotus bring him back?

As interesting of a character as he is I highly doubt he's dead.

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

4 minutes ago, Aleksi134 said:

Im glad you arent a psychiatrist.

So, you think Ballas's action are rational and sound?

[Zeyez]

on one of the paths that you talk to Ballas, he said that he is just an stone, she is the hand... mostly his actions were predicted and directed by sentients, but his decisions about why he decided to betray orokin are based on Margulis death, sentients just use that to launch an preemptive strike, fearing that Orokin would destroy them in future, and Ballas used them for revenge... and an way to retrieve Margulis... at some way, even if "that" Margulis wasn't herself, but an sentient with  capability to mimic those memories and appereance

 

but about Natah/Lotus, she just remembered her role in the old way, specifically after meeting Ballas once again

being able to read minds and mimic based on person's thoughts are quite of achievement, but probably Natah ll be conflicted by those thoughts when we meet her again... an mimic that can read thoughts, change appereance, act as one that it decided to become can create some identity troubles... after all, why Lotus would avoid her own father on Natah's quest? why she decided to come back with the sentients only after meet Ballas? and why she decided to let the tenno (player) alive before going back?

"Dream... not what you are, but what you want to be", quite of Margulis's Phrase for Natah to be in doubt

 

and, for last words, being evil or not are just matter of perspective and this game proves that

you can result on elimination of an entire colony by saving Triuna, instigate her to stop the cycle by convincing her to be the last one or just bring her to the colony on "The Glast Gambit" quest, but on all cases, someone can call us evil, even by going on fully bright side

Edited July 10, 2018 by Zeyez
everything in the world can be changed, its just need the right words... and the left ones too

[KiroTheTraveler]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)MoRockaPDX said:

So, you think Ballas's action are rational and sound?

We don't really know what his motives are. 

[Xaero]

He is.

[WhiteMarker]

You are asking the wrong question.

What you should ask, is: "What is evil?"

Ask the Grineer and the Corpus. They will tell you that the Tenno are evil. We don't see us as the evil.
Good and Evil are made up things to justify ones doings. Nothing more and nothing less.

He wanted to get his revenge. Just as we did, when we killed the Orokin High Council. So are we evil?
Yes, he worked against us. That's what we know for now. Time will tell what happens next.

[(XBOX)BigLithuanian]

12 minutes ago, Aleksi134 said:

Im glad you arent a psychiatrist.

You do realize it doesn't take a Psychiatrist to look at Ballas and know he's and evil POS who needs to die right?

Edited July 10, 2018 by (XB1)BigLithuanian

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

1 minute ago, CaptainStrawberry said:

We don't really know what his motives are. 

Fair enough. The question is, is Ballas evil, and I answered he is insane. Their perhaps is a bizarre explanation for his actions. I mean betraying the Orokin is understandable, the leadership is a morally bankrupt oligarchy. Betraying the Tenno is rude, but they wiped out the Orokin leadership, which leads to a question of timing. We don't know what the whole Margullis, Natah, Lotus situation really is yet so hard to say how delusional Ballas is on that one.

[Zavenosk]

Ballas is (not was) amoral and self-serving. He commits atrocity not because he enjoys it, but for a purpose that transcends moral squabble... And given his status as Orokin, it is fairly likely he will be reconstituted eventually.

He previously said that "lust was his sin", it's well within the realm of possibility that he kept Margualis, and collaborated with Natah to create the Lotus.

[AJ5511]

13 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

It's important to note that a person like Ballas views humans much like we humans do ants.

If he kills off a hive of dangerous Humans, his outlook probably wouldn't be much different from ours in killing off a mound of fire ants... It's a matter of perspective

That's true, but he does say that he is just a stone and 'she' is the hand, so it's obvious he is not like the humans but more of an anteater I guess. I don't think he is evil, he has been taught to treat the tenno in the manner he has. 

PS: Watch Lotus be the bad one this whole time XD

[AJ5511]

16 minutes ago, CaptainStrawberry said:

So, you think Ballas's action are rational and sound?

In a way they might be if he is doing all this for something larger than the tenno can understand. The Lotus perhaps is doing a more passive approach ( as we progressively are told to build new frames) while Ballas is using the stalker to improve his Warframe designs by seeing what works and doesn't. And perhaps fueling Umbra's hate could have been to see how a new variant of Warframe would be on the battle field. I wouldn't be surprised if the dax which umbra killed was just a clone (scepter) as his dialoge seemed a little dry.

Edited July 10, 2018 by AJ5511

[Vilemyre]

Of all the people we've met with some evil traits Balls is by far the worse. Don't be fooled by his love obession and think he is unwell or give pity because he was margulis's executioner and still went through with it instead of refusing to kill her.

He's a sociopath and extremely narcissitc which he shows in the entire sacrifice quest both acting mighty umbra is under is control regardless if they try to fight and also the trauma he put umbra through and left to re live over and over.

Did margulis's death drive him mad? No. I feel he didn't care regardless. Even now I feel he's using lotus for hunhow's sake and doesn't actually have any real feelings for her.

Edited July 10, 2018 by Vilemyre

[WhiteMarker]

1 minute ago, Vilemyre said:

Of all the people we've met with some evil traits Balls is by far the worse. Don't be fooled by his love obession and think he is unwell or give pity because he was margulis's executioner and still went through with it instead of refusing to kill her.

Yes, he was part of Margulis's execution.
But do we know all the laws of the Orokin Era? Maybe he had to be part of the execution, because he was her lover. Maybe they would have killed him aswell if he refused to do what they wanted him to do.
As part of the trial, maybe he could choose a "painless" death for Margulis. And after her death, he continued her work.
Taking part in the trial was way more difficult than just refusing.

Is he a crazy "#*!%"? Sure he is.
But we don't know everything just yet. So making assumptions is fine and all. But we don't know enough yet...

[AJ5511]

^ even his deep hatred and phycopatic ways must have come from some troubled past. When he was dying, he seemed genuinely surprised that the Warframe could kill him. We have some pretty rich charecters in the game, and having a Ballas backstory would be cool. ( And it will show the tenno can expand their abilites and look in to other things besides Warframes) the guy is a genius nonetheles, building killing machines and still calling them garbage.

[(PSN)MoRockaPDX]

16 minutes ago, Zavenosk said:

Ballas is (not was) amoral and self-serving. He commits atrocity not because he enjoys it, but for a purpose that transcends moral squabble... And given his status as Orokin, it is fairly likely he will be reconstituted eventually.

He previously said that "lust was his sin", it's well within the realm of possibility that he kept Margualis, and collaborated with Natah to create the Lotus.

DE does play in the grey areas, true. If lust was his sin that he either didn't love Margulis, still couldn't admit it, or can't experience love. But, it is what let him indulge Margulis's efforts with the Tenno that ultimately offended the Orokin and led to her punishment. The nature of that punishment, is what will be important. The Jade Light. What is it? Did it kill Margulis or did it trap her, change her, imprison her?

 

10 minutes ago, AJ5511 said:

In a way they might be if he is doing all this for something larger than the tenno can understand. The Lotus perhaps is doing a more passive approach ( as we progressively are told to build new frames) while Ballas is using the stalker to improve his Warframe designs by seeing what works and doesn't. And perhaps fueling Umbra's hate could have been to see how a new variant of Warframe would be on the battle field. I wouldn't be surprised if the dax which umbra killed was just a clone (scepter) as his dialoge seemed a little dry.

We build copies of Warframes. Still infested humans, but the Tenno are not sacrificing living humans to make the new ones, and the link brings balance and calm to each other. I accept that in the end a twist could take place upturning the actors in place, but at the moments Ballas looks like a self serving villain.

[(PSN)Pengu_Imperialus]

26 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

You are asking the wrong question.

What you should ask, is: "What is evil?"

Ask the Grineer and the Corpus. They will tell you that the Tenno are evil. We don't see us as the evil.
Good and Evil are made up things to justify ones doings. Nothing more and nothing less.

He wanted to get his revenge. Just as we did, when we killed the Orokin High Council. So are we evil?
Yes, he worked against us. That's what we know for now. Time will tell what happens next.

I think you are close to the right question, "Is what he does Evil?"

He could have just killed Dax Umbra, but instead he forced him to kill his son and told him that he would have his family enslaved for all time as Dax. 

[Tain_OSkoom]

Ballas is so far removed from humanity that his regard for the life of any individual human is the same as a human would have for, say, an individual dolphin back before 1985--in spite of their sentience, their main value to humanity was as an accidental additive to canned of tuna.

His ethics should be judged as one would judge the ethics of any other trickster god.