Frost is good but boring.

[Asdryu]

I love ice themes, but Frost is lacking that killer cold charm.

1st, Freeze: just your average one handed ability to create a little cc in your bad moments. Personally, I only see this as a needle to pop the globe and wouldn't waste any real energy for it (and good luck buffing someone with this)
2nd, Ice Wave: looks really cool and doesn't suffer from obnoxious line of sight, but other than that doesn't have much. It becomes extremely good with the augment, but it's one of those "why it doesn't have that effect in the 1st place?" Forget about this for the damage; armor or not
3rd, Globe: this is where stuff starts to get really interesting. It's a defensive ability, but if you cast it on someone it will get deleted. This ability has been righteously nerfed when it was 1st reworked and the popping needle function for Freeze came out too, but now it just scales off of the distance based between you and your target/s. Why doesn't this scale with strength?
4th, Avalanche: I love this ability and all of its function, but they lack scaling. If this ability would scale off of the enemies' hp it would be perfect to me

You might be seeing a recurring theme here: damage, duuh. Is this all you want? Please, let's not be hipsters here. Everyone knows why DE needed to create the popping needle function when the rework came out: globe was kinda broken, but we had our map clearers already (Ash, Mesa, Saryn, Equinox and Mag) and it wasn't """game breaking""" and nearly as fast/effective as those, BUT, we were all in for one specific thing: that one morbid, icy, explosive death everyone faced. Don't tell me that you wouldn't like that. You can experience that now on low levels with avalanche if you want to have a clue of what I'm talking about.
But "don't you think he would be crazy with all those damage boosts?" Yes... and no. To achieve the 100% benefits from his abilities you can't go without blind rage. Actually you can, but ofc, it's just one of those builds where you have to focus on "THAT" ability, and by now, we know how those go and even then it doesn't offer an end game potential without spending everything on energy pizzas and because he lacks on range. Only Ice Wave reaches a desirable range.

Same stuff with Overextended. You can achieve the 100% armor reduction even with overextended, but then forget about anything based on efficiency or survivability.

Thanks to the new

Umbral mods

I'm about to test some new stuff, but I know it'll be just the same stuff without any scaling.
If my problem just sounds to be the will of quickly dispose enemies the answer is without a doubt and buts "yes"
I'm dead bored of playing hide&seek with enemies and their AI doesn't let us face a challenge or a real threat that would make them react to go around the obstacles we provide them, so we might as well just make things quick.

[CreamedSoda]

3 minutes ago, Asdryu said:

4th, Avalanche: I love this ability and all of its function, but they lack scaling. If this ability would scale off of the enemies' hp it would be perfect to me

Try using Icy Avalanche Augment, Silva and Aegis Prime and Primed Vigor, Redirection, Augur Accord, Steel Fiber and Rejuvenation. How I have been playing a really fun offensive unstoppable force frost as of lately.

With the augment you get effectively mini-ironskin.

With Silva and Aegis you get the highest damage reduction on a melee with 90% ((Use final harbinger for best effect of tanky frosty boi))

And the others explain themselves, 500 HP and 2000 shields with 600 armor. 

[Asdryu]

See, I don't need anymore survivability with Frost.
At least to me, he's godly on that sector if you know how to space and build your stuff.

What you suggested is something that Nyx, Inaros, Chroma and so many other frames can achieve easily.
How many frames instead can you say that are good at killing superfluos stuff anymore without starting to play hide and seek?
I saw this coming years ago and I'm bored to rely on 2-3 frames for it.

[CreamedSoda]

Just now, Asdryu said:

See, I don't need anymore survivability with Frost.
At least to me, he's godly on that sector if you know how to space and build your stuff.

What you suggested is something that Nyx, Inaros, Chroma and so many other frames can achieve easily.
How many frames instead can you say that are good at killing superfluos stuff anymore without starting to play hide and seek?
I saw this coming years ago and I'm bored to rely on 2-3 frames for it.

I mean, most of what I suggested is purely innate, meaning you only spend energy to cast your mini-ironskin. Inaros, Chroma and Nyx espescially in Nyx's case you gotta dump energy out. For Chroma you have to waste potential damage, I would say Inaros is the only one that comes close to being innate. 

[NinjaZeku]

12 minutes ago, Asdryu said:

3rd, Globe: this is where stuff starts to get really interesting. It's a defensive ability, but if you cast it on someone it will get deleted. This ability has been righteously nerfed when it was 1st reworked and the popping needle function for Freeze came out too, but now it just scales off of the distance based between you and your target/s. Why doesn't this scale with strength?

if you cast it on someone it will get deleted

... what?

This ability has been righteously nerfed when it was 1st reworked

It lost its duration limitation and became a permanent effect instead. A fair trade-off, I'd say.

now it just scales off of the distance based between you and your target/s

... again, what?

Why doesn't this scale with strength?

It totally does, though. (Not that you need a lot of Strength, Efficiency FTW so you can stack Globes, up to 1 million Health.)

[Asdryu]

I don't mean to get you on grill, but stuff like that gets shredded in seconds on somethig that's +sortie material (sortie with elemental enhancment, kuva flood, rathuum, index)

Damn, ninja
 

I wasn't talking about the globe's health at all. And don't tell me the damage that you deal on enemies isn't based on the distance of its cast.

Edited July 10, 2018 by Asdryu

[NinjaZeku]

55 minutes ago, Asdryu said:

I don't mean to get you on grill, but stuff like that gets shredded in seconds on somethig that's +sortie material

Each recast of Snow Globe brings with it a 4 second absorb period during which enemy fire will feed the Globe instead of damage it,
so you should get at worst 8 seconds of protection out of it (more if you use e.g. Avalanche after the 4 seconds to stop enemy attacks cold).

57 minutes ago, Asdryu said:

don't tell me the damage that you deal on enemies isn't based on the distance of its cast

Oh wait, you're talking about the push -> slam into walls effect?

The Wiki says it deals Finisher damage of up to 50% of enemy Health,
that seems decently scaling enough to me (though admittedly I haven't used that function all that much, so dunno).

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 17 Minuten schrieb NinjaZeku:

Each recast of Snow Globe brings with it a 4 second absorb period during which enemy fire will feed the Globe instead of damage it,
so you should get at worst 8 seconds of protection out of it (more if you use e.g. Avalanche after the 4 seconds to stop enemy attacks cold).

Oh wait, you're talking about the push -> slam into walls effect?

The Wiki says it deals Finisher damage of up to 50% of enemy Health,
that seems decently scaling enough to me (though admittedly I haven't used that function all that much, so dunno).

I do. It's quite something on max range globes... i mean he does have ice proccs on both avalance and his ice wave that stack with globes slow so it's recommendable to set it as your battlefield when playing melee. It is light Cc plus a procc for CO after all so he's not only tanky but also has great Cc and any recast comes with burst damage.

Not sure about if he needs a raise in his offensive potential but what he could really need is a change to his freeze status. That ones's kinda lacking imo. Compared to limbo it doesn't allow status and he doesn't get a damage buff like gara or atlas eather. All it does is reducing armor a little and it needs some insane build to depell it completely. Negative duration is the only build i play him with cause of that...

Edited July 10, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[(PSN)NoVa_Erk]

i would like to get a Rework of the Augment icy avalanche. it could have a higher number per Enemie. like 80 - 100 and scale with frosts total Armor the half of it. so if you modded your Armor to 600 you get a TOTAL 300 Armor scaling. or if this is too much for the most then lets meet at the middle. we can give this mod from frosts Standard Armor 300 the Scaling for the half. so it scales 150 Armor for the Icy Armor !! and higher the flat amount of 100 for this to make it more viable for the beginning of the endgame endless runs!!!!

[(XBOX)EPOSSTYLE]

Ice wave should stay and only be destroyed by damage like blunts (not as durable tho) making enemies have to either vault over, take cover or destroy.

[Tenno.Rukasu]

I've been playing since U9 and must say that all 'old school' Warframes are very fun if you have some kind of energy restoration and good efficiency. Just spam them like crazy. All Frost abilities are useful, and your build don't need to be focused in one stat or skill.

There's no need for a million HP snow globe, just recast. Armor reduction? You can use with CP. Just a Blind Rage will do for his 4th.

For energy, go for Zenurik, Hunter Adrenaline, Rage. Don't use build with high shields, change for armor. Stay away from plates, use them for emergencies. 

I see a lot of players in public runs that just use their skills in very specific cases. Try another point of view, go berserker. It will be fun, I guarantee.

[(PSN)Zendro_-_]

95% of augments in the game sadly fall into the “why isn’t this just part of the ability to begin with” category. Seeing as how DE probably won’t do away with augments anytime soon, it would at least be really nice to have a dedicated augment slot.

[Birdframe_Prime]

Mesa is boring, her 1 is just a passive charge up and then release to shoot, her 2 and 3 are just 'turn them on every time they turn off' and her 4 is practically auto-aim.

Chroma is boring, his 1 is basically useless, his 2 and 3 are just 'turn them on every time they turn off or get low', and his 4 is a turret I don't have to interact with.

Excalibur is boring, his 1 is just a direct damage ability, his 2 is an instant blind for easy mode, his 3 is more damage and his 4 is just 'spam melee' you can't even use a more interesting Primary or Secondary weapon at the same time.

[/monotone sarcasm]

[Autongnosis]

Le 10/07/2018 à 23:10, (PS4)CoolD2108 a dit :

I do. It's quite something on max range globes... i mean he does have ice proccs on both avalance and his ice wave that stack with globes slow so it's recommendable to set it as your battlefield when playing melee. It is light Cc plus a procc for CO after all so he's not only tanky but also has great Cc and any recast comes with burst damage.

Not sure about if he needs a raise in his offensive potential but what he could really need is a change to his freeze status. That ones's kinda lacking imo. Compared to limbo it doesn't allow status and he doesn't get a damage buff like gara or atlas eather. All it does is reducing armor a little and it needs some insane build to depell it completely. Negative duration is the only build i play him with cause of that...

To be honest even just raising the % to 50% base would do the trick. Currently to make good use of Avalanche's armour strip you have to build him for 250% PS that basically locks down your whole build. It might be better if the strip was permanent, like Oberon's, but it isn't. It has too many constraints to be really useable. 

Also, i personally always found Avalnche to be severely lacking in cool factor. When they first announced the Frost rework i had this vision of Frost summoning a huge wave of icy debris that travelled through the map... Like, a proper Avalanche. Also, as unimaginative as that is, a blizzard style power would really be cool tbh. 

[Senor_Miguana_the_Tyrant]

23 hours ago, (PS4)Zendro_-_ said:

95% of augments in the game sadly fall into the “why isn’t this just part of the ability to begin with” category. Seeing as how DE probably won’t do away with augments anytime soon, it would at least be really nice to have a dedicated augment slot.

I completely agree with you on this front, but then at the same time you'll get people who complain about "power-creep" and will shut this down to the ground. Unfortunate really, because like you said most augments are really more of a necessity rather than a commodity of the ability itself. Not to mention that sacrificing a mod slot on your warframe to put in an augment typically requires sacrificing something essential to the build which directly affects the augment to begin with.

[(PSN)Zendro_-_]

10 minutes ago, Senor_Miguana_the_Tyrant said:

I completely agree with you on this front, but then at the same time you'll get people who complain about "power-creep" and will shut this down to the ground. Unfortunate really, because like you said most augments are really more of a necessity rather than a commodity of the ability itself. Not to mention that sacrificing a mod slot on your warframe to put in an augment typically requires sacrificing something essential to the build which directly affects the augment to begin with.

God forbid we get even a little power creep in a pve game where enemies get to a point where they one shot you by just breathing

[Autongnosis]

il y a une heure, Senor_Miguana_the_Tyrant a dit :

I completely agree with you on this front, but then at the same time you'll get people who complain about "power-creep" and will shut this down to the ground. Unfortunate really, because like you said most augments are really more of a necessity rather than a commodity of the ability itself. Not to mention that sacrificing a mod slot on your warframe to put in an augment typically requires sacrificing something essential to the build which directly affects the augment to begin with.

 

il y a 59 minutes, (PS4)Zendro_-_ a dit :

God forbid we get even a little power creep in a pve game where enemies get to a point where they one shot you by just breathing

But then again what is the point of that if we cannot access any content that challenges, at least numerically our power without spending 2 hours in a mission?

I work full time goddammit 😞

 

Edited July 16, 2018 by Autongnosis

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Autongnosis:

 

But then again what is the point of that if we cannot access any content that challenges, at least numerically our power without spending 2 hours in a mission?

I work full time goddammit 😞

 

You can allways join high level cetus missions and use them on those goddarn rocketships. Frosts abilities don't exactly qualify but you get the idea.

Edited July 16, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[NeithanDiniem]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Zendro_-_ said:

God forbid we get even a little power creep in a pve game where enemies get to a point where they one shot you by just breathing

You mean at the point where DE stops supporting extended play because that isnt their objective with the game? You cant buff frames for the minority when said buff trivializes the majority.

[(XBOX)BowlofTofu]

I think we all need to chill out

[Aetrion]

Yea, well, Zenurik used to be good but boring. Now it's good but annoying. Be careful what you wish for. 

[Asdryu]

Idk about Zenurik. I still love it and especially when you max that little lighting ball of death and not to mention the utility of its void blast.
I'm literally addicted by Zenurik and Vazarin's playstyle if used actively. Very disappointed about Madurai instead for its active role (preferred when it was a lazor).

For the topic, as I expected, not many people understood the point of it and at this point I'm even doubting they read it because I just said something "bad" about something (being Frost).
I didn't even touch the complete functionality of some abilities and like the 25% of the topic went on that for some reasons instead of debating how we play Frost and what could be done/not done for him.

TL;DR the main thing I'd wish is for Avalanche to scale off of enemies' hp like some abilities of other frames do. It's a concept that never fails unless it goes over power creep. Look at Oberon's 1st. Avalanche doesn't even have that much range and some enemies don't get affected by it at all. And like he said
 

On 2018-07-16 at 3:51 PM, Autongnosis said:

-To be honest even just raising the % to 50% base would do the trick. Currently to make good use of Avalanche's armour strip you have to build him for 250% PS that basically locks down your whole build. It might be better if the strip was permanent, like Oberon's, but it isn't. It has too many constraints to be really useable.- 

Also, i personally always found Avalnche to be severely lacking in cool factor. When they first announced the Frost rework i had this vision of Frost summoning a huge wave of icy debris that travelled through the map... Like, a proper Avalanche. Also, as unimaginative as that is, a blizzard style power would really be cool tbh. 

 

Edited July 18, 2018 by Asdryu

[Solarsyphon]

The issue I see with augments is that there should be more of them. If they want them to be a choice then having more than one per ability would do that better then having them as an alternative to normal modding. For there are some conclave specific ones they could open up that would probably work for PVE and give some choice. I also think that multiple was always the goal as abilities themselves used to be on similar cards.

 

Edited July 19, 2018 by Solarsyphon

[Senor_Miguana_the_Tyrant]

5 hours ago, Solarsyphon said:

The issue I see with augments is that there should be more of them. If they want them to be a choice then having more than one per ability would do that better then having them as an alternative to normal modding. For there are some conclave specific ones they could open up that would probably work for PVE and give some choice. I also think that multiple was always the goal as abilities themselves used to be on similar cards.

 

Not really, sure some augments are pretty useless and could use a rework, but most augments work exceptionally well and synergize quite nicely with warframe abilities. Don't really need more than 1 per ability if that 1 augment is fine as it is.

Anyways back to the topic at hand:

11 hours ago, Asdryu said:

Idk about Zenurik. I still love it and especially when you max that little lighting ball of death and not to mention the utility of its void blast.
I'm literally addicted by Zenurik and Vazarin's playstyle if used actively. Very disappointed about Madurai instead for its active role (preferred when it was a lazor).

For the topic, as I expected, not many people understood the point of it and at this point I'm even doubting they read it because I just said something "bad" about something (being Frost).
I didn't even touch the complete functionality of some abilities and like the 25% of the topic went on that for some reasons instead of debating how we play Frost and what could be done/not done for him.

TL;DR the main thing I'd wish is for Avalanche to scale off of enemies' hp like some abilities of other frames do. It's a concept that never fails unless it goes over power creep. Look at Oberon's 1st. Avalanche doesn't even have that much range and some enemies don't get affected by it at all. And like he said
 

 

 

On 2018-07-16 at 6:51 AM, Autongnosis said:

To be honest even just raising the % to 50% base would do the trick. Currently to make good use of Avalanche's armour strip you have to build him for 250% PS that basically locks down your whole build. It might be better if the strip was permanent, like Oberon's, but it isn't. It has too many constraints to be really useable. 

Also, i personally always found Avalnche to be severely lacking in cool factor. When they first announced the Frost rework i had this vision of Frost summoning a huge wave of icy debris that travelled through the map... Like, a proper Avalanche. Also, as unimaginative as that is, a blizzard style power would really be cool tbh. 

 

On 2018-07-14 at 11:25 PM, Tenno.Rukasu said:

I've been playing since U9 and must say that all 'old school' Warframes are very fun if you have some kind of energy restoration and good efficiency. Just spam them like crazy. All Frost abilities are useful, and your build don't need to be focused in one stat or skill.

There's no need for a million HP snow globe, just recast. Armor reduction? You can use with CP. Just a Blind Rage will do for his 4th.

For energy, go for Zenurik, Hunter Adrenaline, Rage. Don't use build with high shields, change for armor. Stay away from plates, use them for emergencies. 

I see a lot of players in public runs that just use their skills in very specific cases. Try another point of view, go berserker. It will be fun, I guarantee.

Frost's abilities are fine, he's not boring, he's what you would expect from a defence frame. Unfortunately, where he falls short is precisely in this category. For Sortie level missions, unless you min max Frost's build and throw away literally everything not important to his snow globe, all his other abilities become a moot point. You want to try to make a balanced build that makes use of his avalanche (w/ duration)? Get ready to sacrifice a good chunk of your globe HP and watch it get shredded by level 80-100 enemies in seconds. In this case, it's really not as simple as "oh just recast your globe" because it just ends up getting torn down in mere seconds again (Not to mention that in warframe a second is all it takes for an enemy to one shot you which is very much possible at those levels for Frost). Even the invulnerability period where damage stacks to the globe HP isn't enough to save it simply because the enemies dish out way too much damage for the globe to handle. For Star Chart content sure Frost works fine; beyond that? Don't expect much from him.

The problem isn't really his abilities: it's what him and LOTS OF OTHER WARFRAMES LACK: scalability.

I think this is the problem OP is having: he's boring because you only have one way of building him to make him semi-viable at high levels

Edited July 19, 2018 by Senor_Miguana_the_Tyrant
Typo

[Tenno.Rukasu]

25 minutes ago, Senor_Miguana_the_Tyrant said:

The problem isn't really his abilities: it's what him and LOTS OF OTHER WARFRAMES LACK: scalability.

Frost was from closed beta U6, five years ago when enemy scaling wasn't a concern. Off course it will not perform well among level +80 mobs. Literally wasn't design for it. The famous 'end-game' is a issue from past 2 years, created by hardcore players that don't experience fun in regular missions. New Warframes are coming prepared for level scaling, yet reworking everything from the past are not justified by a new play style. It's an evolving game, but somethings will remain until a real necessity is shown. That must be respected. There are also so many things going on, hundreds of players asking for new content, hard stuff, new quests, mods, reworks, new everything. Is that hard to do your best with you got? I really don't see any problem with Frost. For high level defense, you know that Limbo will have a better performance. Change, try something new, create new strategies, new synergies.