Frost 2.0

[Jamescell]

This is a post I have put a considerable amount of thought into, keep in mind we are trying to bring Frost up to Nova level. Please understand that buffing an abillity is not always a solution, often new abilities serve as a more potent solution. Here is Frost 2.0 (Title Inspired by SanityRobot). This is more or less a repost, but I have specified and simplified ability descriptions.

ABILITY 1 CRYO SHOT:

For the duration of the ability all bullets shot by Frost will freeze enemies in a transparent coating of ice (no not the stupid white out globs they currently turn into). When an enemy is unfrozen or killed while frozen, they explode, doing no damage but adding an ice slow effect, much like ice damage mods for weapons except a little more potent, lowering firing rate. This explosion would have a very large radius of ice slow effect. The freeze timer will not reset if an enemy is hit by another frozen projectile while frozen.

Stats of Ability: Cost, 25 Energy. Duration of Slow, 20 Seconds. Range of explosion, about as large as largest Snow Globe.

Duration of Ability: 5, 8, 11, 15.

Duration of Freeze: 1, 2, 2, 3.

Effect on Frost:

This is the start to upgrading frost out of the 2 skill frame category he is currently in. A much more useful, unique and expressive ability for a well rounded Frost. Lets face it, his first ability is really just a single target long duration stun, which is only useful if you are playing a mission way out of your league and come across a heavy unit. This ability has the same premise more or less as his current first, but allows for more versatile use.

ABILITY 2 GLACIAL FLARE:

On cast, Frost channels a swirling wind of ice energy while drawing back one arm, then dissipates the surrounding energy, slamming a fist down, sending a blast of ice 360 degrees around the fist. Frozen shards do low of AP and ice damage and also hurl enemies far away from the casting zone, dead or alive, pinning them on contact with any surface, much like Excalibur's radial javelin.

Stats of Ability: Cost, 50 Energy. Radius, again, about as large as a large snow globe. Casting Duration, 1.5 seconds.

Duration of Pin: 4, 6, 8, 10.

Effect on Frost:

The ability would only be usable when no enemies from previous casts are pinned, preventing crowd control spamming. This effect also acts as a balance between it and Snow Globe, the higher Frost's ability duration, the longer Snow Globe lasts, but the longer this abilities cool-down lasts. This would allow Frost to have a hybrid of a utility/crowd-control ability, working with an offset to his snow globe.

ABILITY 3 SNOW GLOBE:

A very minor de-buff, Snow globe reduces outgoing damage by around 5%. Tenno should also be able to shoot into the Snow Globe, as they can shoot out of it, but again with a larger reduction of outgoing damage, around 25%. This prevents idiot frosts from creating invulnerable enemies. I do not want to change snow globe much because I think it is already on Vauban-Nova level.

Now discuss these abilities, likes are appreciated.

Edited August 23, 2013 by Jamescell

[WhiteCopain]

That'd be a ridiculous buff to Snow globe for such a small disadvantage. Five percent is nothing when people already clear rooms at the press of a button..

[Meatuchu]

I'd say anything like 25 Percent. That way there's something like thought that goes into which side of the bubble you're on.

[HexCaliber]

Frost is perfectly fine as is; if you want a frame with more offence, play a frame counterbalanced with reduced armour health and shields like nova.

The devs have already said older frames that do not scale well with the new level balance will be worked on, but I doubt frost will be high on that list given how well it plays currently. Frost is the de-facto frame for all void, corpus, and grineer defence missions, you don't get to have your cake and eat it in warframe, everything has advantages and caveats.

[Jamescell]

I am simply making Frost's completely useless abilities unique and useable. Unlike you Hexcaliber, I play high level missions, and have come to find frosts 1,2, and 4 abilities are completely useless at high tier. It's the kind of thinking you exhibit that hinders progress in Warframe and along with that, profound and utterly fun to play frames. Go take your anti-progressional authoritative thinking and make your own posts, that way you can hopefully contribute to the community.

An OP ability is no excuse for useless others. I aim to make Frost whole. In his description it is said that he uses both offensive and defensive abilities, never stating he is a specialist in either.

Note: If I come across as &!$$ed you're just offended. Extensive detail and blatantly hard observations about you do not equate to me being angry, so please don't do the (whoa dude calm down) comeback.

[Meatuchu]

Learn to edit posts first.

Secondly, most frames have "useless" powers. (psychic bolts, absorb, contagion, Bounce, super jump, etc) Deal with it, they're working on it.

And on a final note, frosts powers are hardly useless. Avalanche is less a damage ability than a CC ability, used to freeze people for a short time while you wail on harder targets. Freeze is a single target version. Ice wave is situational, but useful for the slow.

Powers are not supposed to be your only asset.

[Turtleshellon]

I stopped reading when he said bring Frost up to Nova level... It's so laughable to me that people think Nova is OP... How many of you go into wave 100 plus? Nova is nothing special and does not compare to Frost in any way shape or form. 

[dukelego]

Ice wave is fine don't change it. Other frames first abilities need more love then frosts, don't change SG at all, buff ult damage but leave it otherwise.

[Jamescell]

@Meatuchu all the more reason I should give them ideas. The usefulness of the ice wave you list is so idiotic, I'm kind of surprised, you can do the same thing with Cryo rounds. And frames really are meant to be based on their powers, the DEVs had said it many times, and I'm sorry that you would rather have frames with useless abilities, and the main focus be the weapons, but that's really a boring approach, and not the approach the DEVs currently have. Before you start trying to sound like a smart &#!, come up with some more contstructive or realistic arguments.

None of the things you said are actually worth their cost in energy. I'm guessing you've only played mercury with frost.

Edited August 22, 2013 by Jamescell

[RoboDoge]

I would gladly removed all damage from Frost abilities and gave more crowdcontrol to them. Freeze effect instead of damage.

Edited August 22, 2013 by RoboDog

[Jamescell]

@Robodog, read the second ability....-1

Please discuss they abilities, and if you have problems with them, discuss the flaws in the abilities themselves not some S#&$ about how frost doesn't need changing because you still haven't gotten advanced enough to stop using his first two abilities.

[Frost.Umbra]

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/98416-frost-and-his-abilities/#entry1114408

 

I suggested some changes to Frost. I didn't want to overhaul him though.. Just some tweaks.

[Frost.Umbra]

I disagree with your power changes because it feels less like an individual and more like borrowing things you like from other Frames. 

[Jamescell]

Your suggestions just break him apart more, like I said, tweaks aren't always the solution, this seems to be what the majority of people on the forums think. Your suggestions seem pretty shallow and Jair make all his abilities do the same thing, just at different sizes.

How so dibpwnt? No other frame has either ability, I said the pin physics for glacial flare would work like radial javelin, but the ability doesn't. Please put thought into your answers.. Instead of desperately trying to come up with a way to defend frost. New abilities are hard to accept, but I really have thought deeply about these, and would make frost the well rounded frame in his description, allowing advanced players to use his first two abilities.

Edited August 22, 2013 by Ced23Ric

[Frost.Umbra]

How so dibpwnt? No other frame has either ability, I said the pin physics for glacial flare would work like radial javelin, but the ability doesn't. Please put thought into your answers.. Instead of desperately trying to come up with a way to defend frost. New abilities are hard to accept, but I really have thought deeply about these, and would make frost the well rounded frame in his description, allowing advanced players to use his first two abilities.

 

Your ideas are neat, but like I said, I think they borrow too much from other powers in game and this doesn't make me feel like the Frost is special. Makes it feel like a blend of two other frames. 

 

These aren't new abilities yet. They are suggestions. So I won't have to accept them until the Dev team decides to do anything about it, for which I am thankful. 

[Jamescell]

What abilities do these mirror exactly? Please give an example, as I am curious to what abilities I have subconsciously mimicked.

[Eisvogel]

Why are you re-posting this yet again in another thread?

[Frost.Umbra]

Well, your first one is a mix between Cryrounds and Novas ability, but without the damage on explosion. The other resembles the Excaliburs Radial Javelin, which most new players have because the Excal is a cool looking frame. To me it just seems like cookie cutter powers with a slight twist.

 

I think you are taking everyones criticisms too personal. I've stated that your ideas are neat but you still act indignant. No Parent likes to hear that their baby is ugly and I understand your viewpoint. But if you wanted to hear ONLY praise about your ideas, you shouldn't have posted them to the internet.

[Eisvogel]

With frost's globe as broken as it is in defensive capabilities, frost only needs a nerf to globe before thinking about abilities. Either make it only reduce around 50% of ranged damage instead of blocking it, or make it durable up to a damage cap like new Rhino's Iron Skin.... other than that, there's nothing to discuss.

 

As said before, the ability 1 is absurd to be a first skill.... way too much.

 

Ability 2 could work if only pins a very limited amount of enemies, else it should replace avalanche with a bit of damage... the duration is way too high.

 

Again, stop re-posting your threads over and over.

[saltshaker42]

ABILITY 3 SNOW GLOBE:

A very minor de-buff, Snow globe reduces outgoing damage by around 5%. 

I read this, stopped, and said NO.

[NDroid]

I agree that Frost's skills aside from Snow Globe do need some tweaks, but not necessarily a complete rework. I posted these suggestions about how to tweak Frost in an earlier thread:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/93640-how-to-fix-frost/?p=1050399

[Frost.Umbra]

I agree that Frost's skills aside from Snow Globe do need some tweaks, but not necessarily a complete rework. I posted these suggestions about how to tweak Frost in an earlier thread:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/93640-how-to-fix-frost/?p=1050399

Have you read my Frost ability tweak post?

[Jamescell]

I like how these comments are negative, but disagree with each other. You can't seriously expect me to listen to your negative suggestion when you say the polar opposite of the guy before you, both points being extremes of my moderate version of snow globe.

[Jamescell]

@Ndroid, no offense but your abilities lack creativity and dynamic, I would rather have his current useless abilities over those. Your buff to avalanche is a copy of Novas fourth ability, but with cc instead of damage.

Edited August 23, 2013 by Jamescell

[EnzoVulkoor]

This is a post I have put a considerable amount of thought into, keep in mind we are trying to bring Frost up to Nova level. Please understand that buffing an abillity is not always a solution, often new abilities serve as a more potent solution. Here is Frost 2.0 (Title Inspired by SanityRobot).

ABILITY 1 CRYO SHOT:

For the duration of the ability all bullets shot by Frost will freeze enemies in a transparent coating of ice (no not the stupid white out globs they currently turn into). When an enemy is unfrozen or killed while frozen, they explode, doing no damage but adding an ice slow effect, much like ice damage mods for weapons except a little more potent, lowering firing rate. This explosion would have a very large radius of ice slow effect. The freeze timer will not reset if an enemy is hit by another frozen projectile while frozen.

Stats of Ability: Cost, 25 Energy. Duration of Slow, 20 Seconds. Range of explosion, about as large as largest Snow Globe.

Duration of Ability: 5, 8, 11, 15.

Duration of Freeze: 1, 2, 2, 3.

Effect on Frost:

This is the start to upgrading frost out of the 2 skill frame category he is currently in. A much more useful, unique and expressive ability for a well rounded Frost. Lets face it, his first ability is really just a single target long duration stun, which is only useful if you are playing a mission way out of your league and come across a heavy unit. This ability has the same premise more or less as his current first, but allows for more versatile use.

ABILITY 2 GLACIAL FLARE:

On cast, Frost channels a swirling wind of ice energy while drawing back one arm, then dissipates the surrounding energy, slamming a fist down, sending a blast of ice 360 degrees around the fist. Frozen shards do low of AP and ice damage and also hurl enemies far away from the casting zone, dead or alive, pinning them on contact with any surface, much like Excalibur's radial javelin.

Stats of Ability: Cost, 50 Energy. Radius, again, about as large as a large snow globe. Casting Duration, 1.5 seconds.

Duration of Pin: 4, 6, 8, 10.

Effect on Frost:

The ability would only be usable when no enemies from previous casts are pinned, preventing crowd control spamming. This effect also acts as a balance between it and Snow Globe, the higher Frost's ability duration, the longer Snow Globe lasts, but the longer this abilities cool-down lasts. This would allow Frost to have a hybrid of a utility/crowd-control ability, working with an offset to his snow globe.

ABILITY 3 SNOW GLOBE:

A very minor de-buff, Snow globe reduces outgoing damage by around 5%. Tenno should also be able to shoot into the Snow Globe, as they can shoot out of it, but again with a larger reduction of outgoing damage, around 25%. This prevents idiot frosts from creating invulnerable enemies. I do not want to change snow globe much because I think it is already on Vauban-Nova level.

Now discuss these abilities, likes are appreciated.

How about just make this the female version of frost? DE have stated before they will do different gender frames but they will end up being tweeks. As they will not just sell appearance swaps. They'd rather have different gender with similar yet different ability themes.

 

Also where is the ulti?