TinFoilMkIV Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 The issue isn't the reality of what the game has to offer, but how things appear to players who don't yet know any better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaeacus Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 1 minute ago, TinFoilMkIV said: The issue isn't the reality of what the game has to offer, but how things appear to players who don't yet know any better. I agree with you, but the question is: whose job is it to teach people to "know better"? Teaching others the peril of spending money on gatcha boxes and cash shops...I don't really think it's DE's responsibility. In fact, to do so would be a direct detriment to their own business model, and jeopardize the game's very existence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)embryosrage Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 Didn't revives use to cost Plat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryMcBoll Posted July 17, 2018 Author Share Posted July 17, 2018 3 hours ago, Zyneris said: *sigh* I feel like despite us having a wealth of knowledge at our fingertips it's never used. When I started playing, I saw stuff and wondered "what's this". My FIRST reaction was to go to the internet. Like it's truly not that hard. Trust me, I'm not trying to be a jerk by any means, but if you don't want to ask others what something is, at least look it up. Research and learn something. Almost every game I'm interested in that I've never heard of, I do a quick stop on their website and wikia pages, just to get an idea for what it's about. That being said, don't get me wrong, there's a lot that isn't explained in the game ever. And truly, that kind of stinks, but in a way it's good. It forced me to be curious about the world and learn the game. Idk, that's just my thoughts on the matter. I believe that it is the job of the game to present itself better. Warframe bears the stigma of a FtP game, and all the plat purchases hovering before a new player don't really disabuse of that notion. They won't invest any more time and effort into researching something they think is just trying to take money from they, they'll just walk away from the game. It's like I came to somebody's house expecting the find a serial killer and the first sight I saw was them standing in the hall with a bloodstained knife. My first reaction won't be to ask the neighbors and learn that he was actually just making Halloween props. 4 hours ago, Rawbeard said: which pay items give off that impression? It's not really a single item as much as the entire presentation of thing. The biggest red flags for me then was when I opened the arsenal and there were all these amazing looking weapons with awesome stats on display with big platinum price tags on them. I looked at Warframe equip screen and it's the same thing: a bunch of cool frames with price tags next to my vanilla ass starter frame. I opened the market and was immediately slapped with prime access, syndana, skins, free primes, etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zyneris Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, (XB1)HAPPYHapyJ0YJoy said: -snip- 1 hour ago, minininja77 said: Wiki's and other online guides are good and all, but if players are always forced to leave a game and turn to the internet for the information they need to play the game the developers of the game are failing the players Then I guess I'm old school. I've played far more games that didn't have tutorials in them than ones that did. And I've certainly never crossed an MMO that explained everything. Hell, I taught myself how to play WoW after my told me to play and then forgot about me. I actually can't stand being forced to go through a tutorial - this is why I've never played Dota 2. Again, maybe I'm just old school and I believe that the devs job is to produce the game. That's it. Produce and maintain. It's my job to figure out the rest. @JerryMcBoll All games bear some sort of stigma. WoW is childish, League is toxic and unskilled, Dota is too elite, CoD is only for 9year boys, etc. If devs spent more time on their image than the game we would never see content. That being said, I keep seeing these arguments that 'if DE doesn't fix people will leave or not stay' and yet DE seems to be in no financial trouble at all. Clearly the mental of a handful of players isn't enough to dissuade those who are willing to look further. Edited July 17, 2018 by Zyneris Added response Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)HAPPYHapyJ0YJoy Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 22 minutes ago, Zyneris said: @JerryMcBollThen I guess I'm old school. I've played far more games that didn't have tutorials in them than ones that did. And I've certainly never crossed an MMO that explained everything. Hell, I taught myself how to play WoW after my told me to play and then forgot about me. If you're old school you'd know that games used to come with manuals. WoW actually has one. Forcing players to wiki game basics isn't old school, it's bad game design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zyneris Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 4 minutes ago, (XB1)HAPPYHapyJ0YJoy said: If you're old school you'd know that games used to come with manuals. WoW actually has one. Forcing players to wiki game basics isn't old school, it's bad game design. Lol, First, I hardly ever used manuals. I dove right in to games because why the heck not! That being said, I'd venture a guess that those complaining about needing to use wikia aren't using manuals - if they aren't willing to go to a webpage they certainly aren't willing to go through pages upon pages of reading (Baldurs Gate 2 great example of this). Again, just a guess. Forcing players to be independent isn't bad game design at all. It's wonderful and we need more of it. The idea has begun to truly fade away and it's scary to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof.549 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 5 hours ago, NecromancerX69 said: DE still needs a lot of work to do Yea, maybe someday we would be out of Beta. Not likely, but still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof.549 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Zyneris said: Forcing players to be independent isn't bad game design at all No one likes to read. No one likes to think. No one likes to learn. Everyone are too used to be guided. Everyone wants a marker on the map and on screen. This game would be turned into such chaos if ONLY remove markers from screen/minimap. It'd be an apocalypse here, on forums and a massive quit of players. Edited July 17, 2018 by Prof.549 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zyneris Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, Prof.549 said: No one likes to read. No one likes to think. No one likes to learn. Everyone are too used to be guided. Everyone wants a marker on the map and on screen. This game would be turned into such chaos if ONLY remove markers from screen/minimap. It'd be an apocalypse here, on forums and a massive quit of players. I mean, I'd be all for taking the warning labels off of everything and letting nature sort itself out.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hypernaut1 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 i dont know, apparently there are 100s of thousands of players that dont have this issue. WF is a pretty succesful F2P. they might have an idea about what theyre doing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)HAPPYHapyJ0YJoy Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 25 minutes ago, Zyneris said: Lol, First, I hardly ever used manuals. You missed out. Some manuals had some good stuff in them. Also good toilet reading material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zyneris Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 Just now, (XB1)HAPPYHapyJ0YJoy said: You missed out. Some manuals had some good stuff in them. Also good toilet reading material. Haha I agree, years later when I cared enough to be find out what was in them, I got my enjoyment. Like I said, Baldurs Gate 2 manual was actually really fun to read. Don't judge me lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-UCPP- Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 A simple forced video for every new player would work perfectly. New players NEED to know what they are getting into because when I first started, 50 plat went right into a camo for the Braton. I had no knowledge that you needed Warframe and weapon slots. I never knew how T3 void keys worked or simply anything. Since I was a no-life without any sort of thing dragging me back. There needs to be a forced video Topics addressed in Video: 1. How that starchart works and how to progress. (Most players I've played and invited asked the same question after completed "Vor's prize". WhERe Do I Go NOw??) 2. The different chats that they can use as help (Mostly to show off recruitment chat and trading chat and addressing what "WTS, WTB, LF, and H" are!) 3. Show the player the market and how to get weapons. (Blueprint tab in market) Also why not only share blueprints with new players until mastery rank 4?) 4. Tell the player about Warframe and weapon slots. Slice of Life Changes: 1. Hovering over planets will show what resources are dropped instead of a secret button on the corner that no one notices lol 2. Match make only players who are in a certain mastery rank quota. Stop queuing new players with a Mr 14 who is spamming her ult in Earth tile sets.( NO NEW PLAYERS WANTS TO WATCH SOMEONE ELSE KILL EVERYTHING AROUND THEM. LET THEM KILL!) <---- This creates the most cancerous boring part about Warframe. If new players seek help from others they can wish to be invited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OniDax Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 6 hours ago, Rawbeard said: which pay items give off that impression? Seeing a bunch of items with a premium price tag will give that impression... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedLion109 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 I 100% agree with you! When I started out, it was after watching several YouTube videos. I had seen that people were crafting weapons, so I knew it was possible. Still, it toked me several gaming sessions to finally figure out how to buy the blueprints. The information out there was: "buy the blueprint from the market" but on the market screen all I could see were the Platinum prices ... The Arsenal screen I find less problematic, but the presentation on the market screen is atrocious. I know DE doesn't want to con anyone into buying a Braton, but I bet that's happening right about now. (Something else that took me forever to figure out was how to insert the stupid stars in the Ayatan sculptures ... don't get me started lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NocheLuz Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 Short Question here... What did you win?? I've already discussed about his Pay-To-Win before but Warframe first impression for almost everybody is Pay-To-Win... Which is used very often with PvP focus game. But Warframe is Co-op focus... So, my question is, what did you win? I'll be honest. First time I've played Warframe. I don't know everything about this game. I think it's just Open Beta for like 6 months. All I know is 'I don't want to Pay for the game I don't know anything about it yet' (which is true for every 'Pay-to-Play' games like Destiny 2). But I DO know that market have blueprints after explore everything in it. About Star in Ayatan... I do know they can be put together thanks to the description... But it's take me 2 months to figure out 'where' I can do that (lol). PS. It's sad how nowaday people just didn't want to explore the possibility they can do with everything on the HUD. They're like to be told... Even Mod set, which should base on personal favorite is base on Meta right now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorClipClop Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 When I was a new player, I noticed in the market that there were a ton of weapons you could buy with premium currency -- after I was introduced by the game to the Foundry, at which the game told me I coukd craft weapons myself. With a little common sense it's pretty easy not to pay for stuff. I think by the time I finally bought Platinum, I had been playing Warframe for at least 20 hours and could have gone longer without paying, giving me gameplay time in excess of other games I've payed for. My first plat purchase was with a 50% coupon, but it wasn't the first coupon I'd ever gotten. Discount plat, information inside and outside the game, and giving a lengthy experience without needing to buy slots, this game never gave me a P2W impression. Things could be made better, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)vl_Monarch_lv Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 I'd add that is should be "pay to win faster", but I dont really disagree... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CupcakesMoo Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 Well that depends on your perspective and world wisdom. My first impression of warframe was "hey look another free to play online game that will most likely come with a second game" If you can guess what that game is then I compliment you in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)cjdreadful Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 Ninjas play for free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berdfess Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 I love when people write responses to a thread after only reading the title instead of the OP post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanille Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 The only and real sad problem that Warframe's first impression is p2w is because of the F2P market. F2P games having a premium currency paid with irl money to earn money and make players think they have something 'unique'. Warframe is one of the few games that made said currency tradeable and the common trading currency instead and the market using it as if it was normal currency which you can get by farming the game and trading with other players. So it's just a stigma that F2P inflicted in the gaming industry and really the only way for Warframe's new players first impressions is to get a pop up explaining the currency system in this game as a player starts the 'tutorial' first mission. It's sad honestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawbeard Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 9 hours ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said: Seeing a bunch of items with a premium price tag will give that impression... 10 hours ago, JerryMcBoll said: It's not really a single item as much as the entire presentation of thing. The biggest red flags for me then was when I opened the arsenal and there were all these amazing looking weapons with awesome stats on display with big platinum price tags on them. I looked at Warframe equip screen and it's the same thing: a bunch of cool frames with price tags next to my vanilla ass starter frame. I opened the market and was immediately slapped with prime access, syndana, skins, free primes, etc yeah, no. that's just Free to Play. literally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Danowat32 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 (edited) It's an interesting subject, and quite a juxtaposition for DE really. Obviously they want people to spend money, keeps the lights on etc, but many (most?) people coming into a free to play game expect (if some of the posts on here are anything to go be) to get most (all) stuff without paying anything, so they need to hit the middle ground somewhere in between. I don't think that balancing act is as easy as some people like to think it is. Edited July 17, 2018 by (XB1)Danowat32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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