(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 (edited) https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tY2kYC8eiFq1STC1gYrSgWe6S3O9iKu2LHr4-pN5MTY/edit#gid=1133202225 As far as I know, the last time any riven disposition was actually changed, was update 19.4.2, which was on December 20th, 2016. It is now July 2018. Consider the following scenario: DE does a riven disposition pass. Weapons like Opticor, Tiberon, Sicarus, etc. get their disposition nerfed. Anybody who ever bought a riven for any weapon who's dispo got nerfed feels completely screwed over. Hundreds, or even thousands of plat basically wasted. All those hours farming kuva for rivens you wanted to reroll yourself, wasted. Possibly the biggest saltstorm in the game's history. I realize some trolls might find this scenario funny, but I don't and I don't think DE should take it lightly. Yes, I know "subject to change" but it's been so long since they actually HAVE changed, that I sincerely believe most people don't see it that way, and so much time has passed that I think if they were going to make a pass in line with the originial vision, some changes would be quite drastic, like going from 5 to 1 instead of 5 to 4, which would be a lot less painful. Not to mention this isn't clearly explained in game. And the "well if that happens, that's what they get lol!" mentality I see with some people here is extremely disheartening. It would be nice if DE could come out and say "don't panic, we're not looking to choke slam everyone's prized rivens into the ground! we know people have invested heavily in them." Or, if they are going to do that, they might as well rip off the bandaid now as far as I'm concerned. *edit* to include replies to some posts I should have seen coming. A) "Well, spending a bunch of plat on a riven is stupid!" Well, the fact that you might not think it's worth it, doesn't mean nobody else does, and looking at trade chat on any platform for just a few minutes will tell you that rivens are traded for hundreds, or thousands of platinum all day long. And it's like a few people have straight up forgotten plat can be earned through trades. B) "Oh yeah? Well, the Terms Of Use contains the words "subject to change". DE can change whatever they want!" Well, the fact that DE "can" change whatever they want isn't at argument here. My argument is that they should either A) what I prefer, respect the purchases people have made and leave rivens alone, at least as much as possible. A riven going from a 5/4/3 to a 1 star wouldn't just be a "rework" or a nerf it would basically make it not even worth the mod slot. C) "Pfft, well, just a few seconds of google searching will you about the disposition system's intentions, people should know what they're buying and if they don't that's on them". Nothing in game tells you anything about the disposition system. You can't look at anything in game and see why Soma has a lower disposition than opticor. You just see, soma has 1 dot and opticor has 4. There's nothing there that tells you that can change, and you can't even see that much unless you have a riven for both of them. And, the wiki might explain how the disposition system was originally intended to work, but it doesn't clearly explain that disposition has not been updated in any meaningful way in over 500 days. Or why it's been so long. And honestly, there is a huge market for powerful rivens in this game, and I'm sure DE has been profiting quite nicely because of it, and if they're going to, after over a year of making money off of it turn around and say "your opticor/tiberon etc" riven is now a 1 dispo weapon and basically useless, but thanks for your purchase" that would be distasteful to the say the least. Edited July 21, 2018 by (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA responses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FillyRarity Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 I think of it as DE teaching people an important lesson about investements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA Posted July 17, 2018 Author Share Posted July 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, FillyRarity said: I think of it as DE teaching people an important lesson about investements. So in other words, you're perfectly fine with the idea of a significant number of people feeling totally screwed over thanks to DE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FillyRarity Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 1 minute ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said: So in other words, you're perfectly fine with the idea of a significant number of people feeling totally screwed over thanks to DE? No, in my own words I think of it as DE teaching people an important lesson about investements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA Posted July 17, 2018 Author Share Posted July 17, 2018 1 minute ago, FillyRarity said: No, in my own words I think of it as DE teaching people an important lesson about investements. *eye roll*. Right. Big difference there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sablesword Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 If you invest in a system that you know is subject to change, you shouldn't be surprised when it changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlitzAceRush Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 Or more like, in an ongoing fluid game like Warframe that things can and will change, so when you invest you accept you're investing in the now, not the forever. MMO's or games like them change, sometimes small, sometimes big, but those changes can effect things you've worked towards, that's just a reality and price paid for a product that keeps adding, something we all just need to accept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA Posted July 17, 2018 Author Share Posted July 17, 2018 Just now, Sablesword said: If you invest in a system that you know is subject to change, you shouldn't be surprised when it changes. But thanks to DE not doing anything with disposition for so long, a lot of people are under the impression that their purchases will NOT change. See the problem here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaeacus Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 (edited) 14 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said: I have a lot of anxiety about the Riven system Why is a videogame causing you anxiety? You might want to step away for a while and analyze your priorities. No offense. 14 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said: Consider the following scenario: DE does a riven disposition pass. Weapons like Opticor, Tiberon, Sicarus, etc. get their disposition nerfed. Anybody who ever bought a riven for any weapon who's dispo got nerfed feels completely screwed over. DE has done everything they can, and should, to make players aware Riven disposition is a temporary thing. Any platinum and time used on a Riven is at the player's discretion. It is the player's fault if they "imagine" some never-changing-Riven scenario. DE has been 100% transparent this whole time. 14 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said: Hundreds, or even thousands of plat basically wasted. All those hours farming kuva for rivens you wanted to reroll yourself, wasted. It's not "wasted" if you had fun doing it, and it produced joy for you, even if temporary. If Riven investment has produced no joy for you personally, why are you even doing it? Again: reassess your priorities. 14 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said: Possibly the biggest saltstorm in the game's history. it's been so long since they actually HAVE changed, that I sincerely believe most people don't see it that way The players have nobody but themselves to blame for thinking this. DE has always said quite the opposite. 14 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said: It would be nice if DE could come out and say "don't panic, we're not looking to choke slam everyone's prized rivens into the ground! we know people have invested heavily in them." No. I disagree. That is 100% what Riven dispositions are designed to do. You want popular, high-powered weapons to be exempt from the Riven rebalancing's full effects because you're afraid you may have invested in something that isn't permanent? Hate to break it to you but that's exactly what you did. You follow meta, you get the both pros and cons of doing so. Everything is temporary, nothing is forever. That's a life lesson. I'm not laughing at your plight or unsympathetic. It's more something closer to "pity". No offense. Edited July 17, 2018 by AlMcFly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EDM774 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 (edited) Playing this game for over 4 years I learned 1 thing and 1 thing ONLY : NEVER GET TOO ATTACHED OR INVESTED INTO ANYTHING! This game is still considered in beta and everything and I MEAN EVERYTHING can and WILL change! Have I invested a lot of resources into weapons warframes and other gear just to see an item months or hell even years later get nerfed to the ground? YES I HAVE! Did I feel #*!%ed over by that? YEAH I HAVE! Am I *@##$ing about it? NO I'm not! Because I know this is just a game. I'm not saying stop investing into stuff but invest with the little bug behind your ear saying this is not eternal and it will like everything else disappear sooner or later! Bottom line is Have fun with whatever you have while you still have it! At the end of the day it's just like the S#&$ you did as a teenager. Did it affect you negatively in the long term? yes it did, but did you care about that at the time? Hell no! All you have are stories to tell your friends or family (or both) of the amazing S#&$ you did when you were young. Same here. I meet ppl like me from time to time and we like to chat about the nerfed stuff we used to like (RIP coptering, god NYX, etc., etc.) and if there are new players around they're just like kids listening to a story of how daddy got drunk one night and beat up a big bully and met his mother (or something like that metaphors are not my strong suit). Edited July 17, 2018 by EDM774 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zimzala Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 MMO-ish games change over time, it is the nature of the beast, what sucked before is l33t today and sucks next year. If that is something that makes you anxious, then my honest advice is games like this are not going to be much fun for you I fear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggituete Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 vor 2 Minuten schrieb AlMcFly: It's not "wasted" if you had fun doing it, and it produced joy for you, even if temporary. If Riven investment has produced no joy for you personally, why are you even doing it? Again: reassess your priorities. vor 16 Minuten schrieb (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA: This basically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA Posted July 17, 2018 Author Share Posted July 17, 2018 Just now, AlMcFly said: Why is a videogame causing you anxiety? You might want to step away for a while and analyze your priorities. No offense. DE has done everything they can, and should, to make players aware Riven disposition is a temporary thing. Any platinum and time used on a Riven is at the player's discretion. It is the player's fault if they "imagine" some never-changing-Riven scenario. DE has been 100% transparent this whole time. It's not "wasted" if you had fun doing it, and it produced joy for you, even if temporary. If Riven investment has produced no joy for you personally, why are you even doing it? Again: reassess your priorities. The players have nobody but themselves to blame for thinking this. DE has always said quite the opposite. No. I disagree. That is 100% what Riven dispositions are designed to do. You want popular, high-powered weapons to be exempt from the Riven rebalancing's full effects because you're afraid you may have invested in something that isn't permanent? hate to break it to you but that's exactly what you did. You follow meta, you get the both pros and cons of doing so. Everything is temporary, nothing is forever. That's a life lesson. A) I was being facetious, thank you for being unnecessarily difficult about this. B) no, they haven't. there is no in-game explanation to the riven disposition system whatsoever. That's the epitome of "you gotta read the fine print" and for a game that is lauded as being "fair" with the microtransactions that just seems silly. C) It is "wasted" if a player spends heavily on something and it ends up being useless or next to useless when they didn't see that coming. D) No, they can also blame DE's lack of communication on this. You can't tell me with a straight face the majority of the playerbase meticulously watches every devstream and knows about a mechanic that hasn't been touched in what, over 500 days? E) This post and this conversation aren't about what rivens are "designed to do". Rivens haven't been doing what they were "designed to do" since 2016. IF say, rivens launched with an automated system that would rebalance disposition on a monthly basis or something, I would agree with you and would never have made this thread. But, here we are, with a lot of players potentially about to genuinely feel screwed over. F) Yeah, some day we'll all die, someday warframe's servers will shutdown etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)zThulsaDoomz Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 …..I just want rivens gone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA Posted July 17, 2018 Author Share Posted July 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, (XB1)Thy Divinity said: …..I just want rivens gone Nobody is forcing you to use them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Tanta Cinta Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Sablesword said: If you invest in a system that you know is subject to change, you shouldn't be surprised when it changes. Preach OP is big mad. Edited July 17, 2018 by (XB1)OTF SERENiTY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zyneris Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 (edited) 15 minutes ago, EDM774 said: -snip- Are you threatening my Seer! I WILL FIGHT YOU! Totally JK, but Seer is <3, I will use this thing even if it becomes worse than Plasma Sword. @OP Yeah, MMOs and their balancing systems (or lack thereof) should never come as a surprise. Everything is going to be tuned at some point for good or bad. That's just how it rolls. That being said, spending plat is a choice. For example: I spent plat ot build Ash P and like a month later DE says "ay Twitch watching drop = Ash P". Am I mad? Of course not. I know that they can give away primes for any number of reasons and it's the risk I take. Life itself is a game of chance. Enjoy the ride. Edited July 17, 2018 by Zyneris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinKenshin Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 19 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said: But thanks to DE not doing anything with disposition for so long, a lot of people are under the impression that their purchases will NOT change. See the problem here? There is no problem here. DE said it will change...doesn’t mean it’ll happen in 6 months or 5 years, it WILL still change at some point. People’s impression are totally on them, because DE never said they won’t change it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)AllOrNothinDays Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 I wonder more about the grand scheme of things. Like if rivens determine the stats they give weapons now? Will a primed version of my favorite weapon have its stats a certain way because you can acquire a riven for it? A riven I might not want or just don't have access to? I'll never do more than by a cruddy riven for a weapon I like, people want ridiculous prices anyway and besides if I were to sell one I was lucky to acquire who has their plat removed and I end up suffering for it to no fault of my own--another problem but related as rivens are one of the main things pushing large platinum trades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA Posted July 17, 2018 Author Share Posted July 17, 2018 19 minutes ago, GinKenshin said: There is no problem here. DE said it will change...doesn’t mean it’ll happen in 6 months or 5 years, it WILL still change at some point. People’s impression are totally on them, because DE never said they won’t change it Please tell me where, in game, on Xbox one, DE has even mentioned the possibility of rivens changing, at any point between December 2016 and now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omega-Shadowblade Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 1 minute ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said: Please tell me where, in game, on Xbox one, DE has even mentioned the possibility of rivens changing, at any point between December 2016 and now. Terms of agreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)PredakingXYT Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 12 minutes ago, Omega-Shadowblade said: Terms of agreement. Gottem. 1 hour ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said: So in other words, you're perfectly fine with the idea of a significant number of people feeling totally screwed over thanks to DE? This is how nerfs in all games typically work. Nerfs have been around forever, its nothing new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Augustus- Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 59 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said: But thanks to DE not doing anything with disposition for so long, a lot of people are under the baseless, unjustifiable impression that their purchases will NOT change. See the problem here? FTFY. And no, no problem seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA Posted July 17, 2018 Author Share Posted July 17, 2018 15 minutes ago, Omega-Shadowblade said: Terms of agreement. You mean the terms of agreement that aren't actually in game and have the same "can be changed" disclaimer that every videogame ever has, and doesn't clearly explain "riven disposition system"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA Posted July 17, 2018 Author Share Posted July 17, 2018 1 minute ago, 0Augustus0 said: FTFY. And no, no problem seen. In your opinion, maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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