I have a lot of anxiety about the Riven system, and it would be nice if DE could say something about it.

[Omega-Shadowblade]

Just now, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

You mean the terms of agreement that aren't actually in game and have the same "can be changed" disclaimer that every videogame ever has, and doesn't clearly explain "riven disposition system"?

The same one that states that EVERY single aspect of the game is subject to change at the discretion of the developers and that by agreeing to it you have to accept that the devs may change a system you are personally fond of the state of.

[Eidolon_Slayer]

Like relics, I'm sure that the disposition change would only affect any new riven cards after there change, and older riven cards would be unaffected. Or I'd like to think so.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

4 minutes ago, (XB1)PredakingXYT said:

Gottem. 

This is how nerfs in all games typically work. Nerfs have been around forever, its nothing new.

Usually if something gets nerfed, it isn't something that involves as much player investment as a collection of rivens. False equivalency.

[(XBOX)PredakingXYT]

1 minute ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

Usually if something gets nerfed, it isn't something that involves as much player investment as a collection of rivens. False equivalency.

It doesn't require that much player investment, and you don't need that collection. People forma this frames and weapons dozens of times to get the proper build that they want and that won't stop DE from swooping in with a nerf. And if/when they drop a Riven disposition balance/patch/update, there will be backlash from the community like always, but people will get over it, like always, and move on to something else.

[K4RN4]

4 minutes ago, Eidolon_Slayer said:

Like relics, I'm sure that the disposition change would only affect any new riven cards after there change, and older riven cards would be unaffected. Or I'd like to think so.

Probably not. Would be broken as hell. People with old rivens would charge even more for high stats, that became unavailable

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

It's why I invest in Rivens for vaulted weapons. Like Vasto Prime with it's 5 disposition,  and Sybaris Prime (although I am biased and a junkie for both weapons) Weapons that aren't vary popular and are vaulted should be safe to invest in. 

Edited July 17, 2018 by (XB1)RDeschain82

[Eidolon_Slayer]

1 minute ago, Oru5732 said:

Probably not. Would be broken as hell. People with old rivens would charge even more for high stats, that became unavailable

Lol, not if they're worse than the new ones, and this is  part of market behavior. 

Edited July 17, 2018 by Eidolon_Slayer

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

4 minutes ago, Omega-Shadowblade said:

The same one that states that EVERY single aspect of the game is subject to change at the discretion of the developers and that by agreeing to it you have to accept that the devs may change a system you are personally fond of the state of.

I can't even believe you're seriously arguing that since the fine print buried in an end user license agreement says the developer can change things, nobody would have any right to complain if they ruined somebody's riven they paid like 800plat or more for. A carve-out buried in an out-of-game eula may be legally sufficient and that's peachy. But that is far from being a clear, in game heads up that if you spend a bunch of plat on a riven its dispo is not guaranteed to stay the same, and I would bet an entire paycheck there are a lot of players out there who don't browse the wiki, don't watch every devstream from a year and a half ago, and legitimately don't know about the system. And if you don't think those players deserve more than "lol life lesson" "shoulda read the eula" or "that's what they get for being dumb enough to invest in them" remarks from certain people in this thread, then we'll have to agree to disagree.

This isn't about "can". Of course they can. I just wish they would respect the investment players put in these things and if they're not going to? Fine. Rip off the bandaid now. Get it over with. Say something about it now.Let everyone know the meta riven super nerf is coming so people can stop freaking buying them, and stop wasting their time.

[Maggituete]

vor 1 Minute schrieb (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA:

I can't even believe you're seriously arguing that since the fine print buried in an end user license agreement says the developer can change things, nobody would have any right to complain if they ruined somebody's riven they paid like 800plat or more for. A carve-out buried in an out-of-game eula may be legally sufficient and that's peachy. But that is far from being a clear, in game heads up that if you spend a bunch of plat on a riven its dispo is not guaranteed to stay the same, and I would bet an entire paycheck there are a lot of players out there who don't browse the wiki, don't watch every devstream from a year and a half ago, and legitimately don't know about the system. And if you don't think those players deserve more than "lol life lesson" "shoulda read the eula" or "that's what they get for being dumb enough to invest in them" remarks from certain people in this thread, then we'll have to agree to disagree.

This isn't about "can". Of course they can. I just wish they would respect the investment players put in these things and if they're not going to? Fine. Rip off the bandaid now. Get it over with. Say something about it now.Let everyone know the meta riven super nerf is coming so people can stop freaking buying them, and stop wasting their time.

I would inform myself about an item before paying 800+ plat on it.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

1 minute ago, Maggituete said:

I would inform myself about an item before paying 800+ plat on it.

I'm not rehashing the same points again with you. I made my case. See above. Disagree? Fine. Good day sir.

[BladeRambler]

I think Rivens got way more popular than DE had expected, and once they saw the amount of plat moving around, it basically messed up all their plans with the system since they can never change dispositions without angering a significant portion of their (plat-buying/trading) user base.

Expect nothing to change, or there will be another layer of resources to alter a Riven's disposition (capped of course, or limited to a riven only you can own).

[Omega-Shadowblade]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

I can't even believe you're seriously arguing that since the fine print buried in an end user license agreement says the developer can change things, nobody would have any right to complain if they ruined somebody's riven they paid like 800plat or more for.

The market of this game is almost entirely player driven. The stupidly high prices of so called "god tier" rivens was entirely made up by players. 800 is a huge amount, and really, if people want to spend that much its their choice, they decided that getting a riven for a weapon they want to use is worth the amount spent regardless of the risk. People already are trying to hoard Akjagara rivens for the upcoming prime, even though they don't know if its going to be the same disposition at time of release or if it'll get knocked down a few pegs like the nikana rivens were due to the prime. If there is anyone really to blame for creating such a deep "investment" blame the players who decided that great rivens are worth what is essentially $40.00+ give or take.

[Maggituete]

vor 8 Minuten schrieb (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA:

I'm not rehashing the same points again with you. I made my case. See above. Disagree? Fine. Good day sir.

I saw above and disagree. A person who can't be bothered to google for 2 minutes before spending a big amount of plat on an item priced by players only is on his own.

[Firetempest]

If it wasn't for the limited slots. And the arduous task of even getting 1 of the 300+ weapons you might like. I wish the dispositions changed on popularity like every 3 months in sync with vaultings to shake things up. But since it's so hard to rotate. Dispositions should only change during weapon reballances every other yearish.

[GinKenshin]

1 hour ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

Please tell me where, in game, on Xbox one, DE has even mentioned the possibility of rivens changing, at any point between December 2016 and now.

 

Why do you expect them to put that sorta info in the game? They don’t even put the simplist of ingame and newbie tutorials in the game...you’re pretty much expected to use outside resources when playing Warframe

 

   Also you’re kinda acting like if they changed the disposition once then it’ll stay that way forever, which it won’t...if they’re gonna change it they must come up with a system for that, like every 3-6 months...etc. so even if your riven went from 5 to 1, it might go up after another change. Your investment still stays 

 

   Also I wanna ask what’s the point of this thread? Because DE won’t tell you about the disposition change ingame, they’ll still do it and probably give you a 1 month warning or something...basically you’re trying to change something that won’t

[Alaeacus]

14 hours ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

Usually if something gets nerfed, it isn't something that involves as much player investment as a collection of rivens. False equivalency.

Lol, you claim False Equivalency against that person's anecdotal evidence by citing anecdotal evidence yourself.  "Usually if something gets nerfed...etc." is purely anecdotal based on zero presented data.  Not only that, but you didn't even show how that guy is falsely stating two opposing arguments as being logically equivalent.  The guy didn't even make two arguments.  He made one statement of opinion as if it were fact...just like you.

You can't just make up your own definitions to fallacy terms.  

Edited July 17, 2018 by AlMcFly

[(PSN)thowed]

46 minutes ago, BladeRambler said:

I think Rivens got way more popular than DE had expected, and once they saw the amount of plat moving around, it basically messed up all their plans with the system since they can never change dispositions without angering a significant portion of their (plat-buying/trading) user base.

Expect nothing to change, or there will be another layer of resources to alter a Riven's disposition (capped of course, or limited to a riven only you can own).

This is exactly what I was thinking.  They're probably making alot of money on plat because of these things.  They have the right to change it and all that.  People also have the right to not buy platinum because they feel cheated.  Now whether or not you agree they were cheated or not isn't the point.  Their feelings will determine whether or not they trust DE in the future and to buy plat or not.  Anytime DE says subject to change from here on out would cause people to think of riven nerfs and the plat they spent.

[Arniox]

2 hours ago, Sablesword said:

If you invest in a system that you know is subject to change, you shouldn't be surprised when it changes. 

Same with bit coin. OP, some people literally spend millions and loose millions by the day and night. 

@Sablesword is correct, if you invest in something that you know for a fact might change, then don't cry when there are changes 

[kyori]

DE are nice people as many has seen them as, but they’re also known to screw players when necessary. Like making some prime Warframe free, so players can’t really sell them for sometime etc

Well this is their game, so it’s natural they’ve all the rights to change anything. 

The only thing so far they’ve uphold is the founder pack. 

Edited July 17, 2018 by kyori

[(PSN)Yes-Man-Kablaam]

1 hour ago, Omega-Shadowblade said:

The market of this game is almost entirely player driven. The stupidly high prices of so called "god tier" rivens was entirely made up by players. 800 is a huge amount, and really, if people want to spend that much its their choice, they decided that getting a riven for a weapon they want to use is worth the amount spent regardless of the risk. People already are trying to hoard Akjagara rivens for the upcoming prime, even though they don't know if its going to be the same disposition at time of release or if it'll get knocked down a few pegs like the nikana rivens were due to the prime. If there is anyone really to blame for creating such a deep "investment" blame the players who decided that great rivens are worth what is essentially $40.00+ give or take.

This really. Hell even selling a riven i don't want people still shoot out stupid high numbers sometimes. Yesterday i gor an Arca plasmor riven. Tried to just trade for destreza p but people said no take 300p instead and I'm just sitting here like wtf? This is silly. Ok i guess.

[trst]

DE didn't make Rivens worth 1,000's of plat, the players did.

DE didn't make you pay 1,000's of plat on Rivens, the players wanted to.

If DE wanted to destroy the dispositions of weapons they are entirely within their rights to do so and players have no ground to stand on.

However DE isn't the type of company that goes around ruining the days of their players. If DE did go and rebalance some dispositions they wouldn't go about making drastic changes.

 

However this all raises a far more important question than dispositions, what about the Riven system itself?

What if DE went and added stat locking, weapon influence, or kuva cost reductions? Would the community be ok that their "god" Rivens are no longer worth 1000's of plat due to greater ease of acquisition? With how much people love to overreact in this community I would honestly expect that making Rivens "easier" would cause a greater bout of drama than if DE went and nerfed some weapons.

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

3 hours ago, (XB1)PredakingXYT said:

It doesn't require that much player investment, and you don't need that collection. People forma this frames and weapons dozens of times to get the proper build that they want and that won't stop DE from swooping in with a nerf. And if/when they drop a Riven disposition balance/patch/update, there will be backlash from the community like always, but people will get over it, like always, and move on to something else.

Sure, it doesn't, but a lot of people HAVE, and that time should be respected.

2 hours ago, Maggituete said:

I saw above and disagree. A person who can't be bothered to google for 2 minutes before spending a big amount of plat on an item priced by players only is on his own.

And I already responded to your sticking point. If a player spends any amount of resources on a riven, whether it's 20p or 2000p, I disagree with the the idea that they should be expected to know about a system that hasn't been mentioned in game for over 500 days, and hasn't been properly addressed by the devs in about that time as well. You clearly don't have a problem with a player buying something and feeling screwed over after the fact because they're not an expert on a game mechanic that hasn't been touched in going on two years. I get it. You don't care. We can disagree. Moving on.

2 hours ago, GinKenshin said:

Why do you expect them to put that sorta info in the game? They don’t even put the simplist of ingame and newbie tutorials in the game...you’re pretty much expected to use outside resources when playing Warframe

 

   Also you’re kinda acting like if they changed the disposition once then it’ll stay that way forever, which it won’t...if they’re gonna change it they must come up with a system for that, like every 3-6 months...etc. so even if your riven went from 5 to 1, it might go up after another change. Your investment still stays 

 

   Also I wanna ask what’s the point of this thread? Because DE won’t tell you about the disposition change ingame, they’ll still do it and probably give you a 1 month warning or something...basically you’re trying to change something that won’t

I'm acting like the plat and time investment people put into these should be respected OR, as I've already said, if they plan on say, just for example, bringing opticor from a 4 to 1, they should rip the band aid off letting people continue buying and selling them as is in trade chat on a daily basis.

1 hour ago, Arniox said:

Same with bit coin. OP, some people literally spend millions and loose millions by the day and night. 

@Sablesword is correct, if you invest in something that you know for a fact might change, then don't cry when there are changes 

Bitcoin=/= digital extremes.

37 minutes ago, trst said:

DE didn't make Rivens worth 1,000's of plat, the players did.

DE didn't make you pay 1,000's of plat on Rivens, the players wanted to.

If DE wanted to destroy the dispositions of weapons they are entirely within their rights to do so and players have no ground to stand on.

However DE isn't the type of company that goes around ruining the days of their players. If DE did go and rebalance some dispositions they wouldn't go about making drastic changes.

 

However this all raises a far more important question than dispositions, what about the Riven system itself?

What if DE went and added stat locking, weapon influence, or kuva cost reductions? Would the community be ok that their "god" Rivens are no longer worth 1000's of plat due to greater ease of acquisition? With how much people love to overreact in this community I would honestly expect that making Rivens "easier" would cause a greater bout of drama than if DE went and nerfed some weapons.

"Can" and "should" are two different things. They "can" announce they're shutting down the servers. They "can" remove rivens from the game entirely.

 

They should, in my opinion, respect the amount of time and platinum people have invested in these things. And "subject to change" should not be a blank check excuse to justify how screwed over so many people would feel.

[(XBOX)PredakingXYT]

1 minute ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

Sure, it doesn't, but a lot of people HAVE, and that time should be respected.

And I already responded to your sticking point. If a player spends any amount of resources on a riven, whether it's 20p or 2000p, I disagree with the the idea that they should be expected to know about a system that hasn't been mentioned in game for over 500 days, and hasn't been properly addressed by the devs in about that time as well. You clearly don't have a problem with a player buying something and feeling screwed over after the fact because they're not an expert on a game mechanic that hasn't been touched in going on two years. I get it. You don't care. We can disagree. Moving on.

I'm acting like the plat and time investment people put into these should be respected OR, as I've already said, if they plan on say, just for example, bringing opticor from a 4 to 1, they should rip the band aid off letting people continue buying and selling them as is in trade chat on a daily basis.

Bitcoin=/= digital extremes.

"Can" and "should" are two different things. They "can" announce they're shutting down the servers. They "can" remove rivens from the game entirely.

 

They should, in my opinion, respect the amount of time and platinum people have invested in these things. And "subject to change" should not be a blank check excuse to justify how screwed over so many people would feel.

Sure, but all player in any given game should understand that all aspects of the game mechanics are subject to change and should not expect any compensation or consideration for what they may have invested into said game mechanics.

[LupisV0lk]

Lol DE isn't going to throw balance out of the window to preserve your fragile market.

[(XBOX)Papa Requiem]

3 hours ago, (XB1)ECCHO SIERRA said:

I can't even believe you're seriously arguing that since the fine print buried in an end user license agreement says the developer can change things, nobody would have any right to complain if they ruined somebody's riven they paid like 800plat or more for. A carve-out buried in an out-of-game eula may be legally sufficient and that's peachy. But that is far from being a clear, in game heads up that if you spend a bunch of plat on a riven its dispo is not guaranteed to stay the same, and I would bet an entire paycheck there are a lot of players out there who don't browse the wiki, don't watch every devstream from a year and a half ago, and legitimately don't know about the system. And if you don't think those players deserve more than "lol life lesson" "shoulda read the eula" or "that's what they get for being dumb enough to invest in them" remarks from certain people in this thread, then we'll have to agree to disagree.

This isn't about "can". Of course they can. I just wish they would respect the investment players put in these things and if they're not going to? Fine. Rip off the bandaid now. Get it over with. Say something about it now.Let everyone know the meta riven super nerf is coming so people can stop freaking buying them, and stop wasting their time.

Simple, you shouldnt buy a riven for 800p, thats dumb.