Please go back as Ash Storm's ability was before

[KennBone]

hes perfect now. End discusion

[TheMandarin]

how is reverting Ash's 4th ability back to open beta time will make Ash OP? what are you guys even talking about? Ash can only kill 18 enemies with his ultimate, and that cost 100 energy. The current Saryn we have in this game, her first ability only cost 25 energy, and the spore can be spread indefinitely, and damage scale incredibly as the number of infested enemies increases. not to mention her spore automatically reduce armor, she is a walking map nuking Corrosive Projection. Beta Ash was no where near this kind of killing efficiency.  

[RoninJed]

33 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

Someone would like a word with you...

Well, A lot of someones actually. 😃

Hehe so you spent what...twenty minutes looking for picture like that to make your point. Find me one with actual ninjas hehe.

[Rakosta_Kai]

2 minutes ago, RoninJed said:

Hehe so you spent what...twenty minutes looking for picture like that to make your point. Find me one with actual ninjas hehe.

I don't think I spent two to be honest.

Ninja

Clones

...kinda simple.

Better yet, you go find me a photo with actual ninja in it...Good luck with that.

 

[RoninJed]

9 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said:

I don't think I spent two to be honest.

Ninja

Clones

...kinda simple.

Better yet, you go find me a photo with actual ninja in it...Good luck with that.

 

Seriously....just Google ninja and you will see how it dosen't bring up a picture like the one you showed to support your argument.

Edited July 20, 2018 by RoninJed

[Rakosta_Kai]

43 minutes ago, RoninJed said:

Seriously....just Google ninja and you will see how it dosen't bring up a picture like the one you showed to support your argument.

Seriously... You Google shadow clone images and look at the first page.

...where do you think they got it from? =/

...And you still owe me a photo.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

On ‎17‎/‎07‎/‎2018 at 4:01 PM, (PS4)JoelsonMS said:

Like a real ninja.

real ninjas didn't really do a lot of killing. they also mostly used weapons converted from agricultural tools, like the Kama for example.

On ‎17‎/‎07‎/‎2018 at 4:01 PM, (PS4)JoelsonMS said:

There are MANY players who want this skill as it was back.

I'm on here quite regularly, and yours is the first post I've seen regarding Ash in about, what.. 2-3 months? must be a very silent majority you speak of.

On ‎17‎/‎07‎/‎2018 at 4:01 PM, (PS4)JoelsonMS said:

no one is forced to play with an Ash in the match

not a valid argument. you weren't forced to make a post about this, but you did.

On ‎17‎/‎07‎/‎2018 at 4:01 PM, (PS4)JoelsonMS said:

Or if you create a filter where you can choose which Warframes are going to enter your game

hahahahaha.. no. there's already enough wannabe dictators in public games that get salty in chat for brining Limbo, giving them the actual power to control what frames can enter would only make the problem worse. plus if something like this had been implemented with old Ash, you'd find he'd almost never make it into games because he ruined other people's fun by stealing all the kills, hence why he was changed.

On ‎17‎/‎07‎/‎2018 at 8:17 PM, (PS4)JoelsonMS said:

will DE really see this post of mine? What is the possibility of this happening? Do you need a petition or what?

no, because it's in General Discussion and not feedback, slim to none and you could try a petition but don't get your hopes up.

On ‎17‎/‎07‎/‎2018 at 8:17 PM, (PS4)JoelsonMS said:

It's what I want, many want and that's all that matters.

again, I don't see this apparently massive army of old ash fanboys you speak of, are they all using Smoke Screen at once or something? XD

On ‎17‎/‎07‎/‎2018 at 8:17 PM, (PS4)JoelsonMS said:

Ash on the team, simply get out of the squad and find another

oof. that can work both ways you know.

On ‎17‎/‎07‎/‎2018 at 8:17 PM, (PS4)JoelsonMS said:

That's the natural selection I'm talking about

natural selection is all well and good, until you don't make the cut for Natural selection. then all of a sudden, nature is unfair, right? stop spouting drivel about natural selection, thinking that you're somehow guaranteed to be "natural selected".

On ‎17‎/‎07‎/‎2018 at 8:28 PM, (PS4)JoelsonMS said:

he has become more useless than ever.

Duration/Strength Ash can inflict massive Slash damage, go invisible for a good length of time for spy vaults and stealth, and can effectively single out heavy enemies and remove them while the team takes care of trash mobs. that's 3 uses for him right there. Ash is fine as he is.

 

[RoninJed]

16 hours ago, Padre_Akais said:

Seriously... You Google shadow clone images and look at the first page.

...where do you think they got it from? =/

...And you still owe me a photo.

Ok well going by your logic then I guess the ninja turtles would have more in common with ashes theme then the cartoon you keep showing hehe. I mean they use ninja weapons and stars with smoke and pizza...oh wait. Im sorry but I still think the old bladestorm fit the ninja theme better. There is a reason why less people use him now then before the change so either way he deserves another look.

Edited July 21, 2018 by RoninJed

[(XBOX)AbroadGem64683]

I seriously don't understand what the whining is about

Been playing since the founder pack era 

Ash is better now , marking high priority targets, 3x damade compared to old ash

If you want press 4 to win go play some other frame

[tripletriple]

27 minutes ago, (XB1)AbroadGem64683 said:

I seriously don't understand what the whining is about

Been playing since the founder pack era 

Ash is better now , marking high priority targets, 3x damade compared to old ash

If you want press 4 to win go play some other frame

Ash is not better now. Let's not lie. He is objectively worse.

[(XBOX)AbroadGem64683]

1 minute ago, tripletriple said:

Ash is not better now. Let's not lie. He is objectively worse.

How exactly ?

[tripletriple]

1 minute ago, (XB1)AbroadGem64683 said:

How exactly ?

Hmm, let's use some basic reasoning. 

1. Kills less enemies than before? Check.

2. Uses more energy than before? Check.

3. Less intuitive than before? Check.

4. More annoying to use? Check.

5. Less overall dps? Check.

Now how exactly is he better? 

[(XBOX)AbroadGem64683]

Just now, tripletriple said:

Hmm, let's use some basic reasoning. 

1. Kills less enemies than before? Check.

2. Uses more energy than before? Check.

3. Less intuitive than before? Check.

4. More annoying to use? Check.

5. Less overall dps? Check.

Now how exactly is he better? 

This would apply to every nerf in the game

his damage is much better, not dps

3 marks when you could only do 1 or 2 before

energy cost is less even with blind rage because of the enemies you are killing

not annoying for me. press 4 and spin around to screen .same thing

[tripletriple]

18 minutes ago, (XB1)AbroadGem64683 said:

This would apply to every nerf in the game

his damage is much better, not dps

3 marks when you could only do 1 or 2 before

energy cost is less even with blind rage because of the enemies you are killing

not annoying for me. press 4 and spin around to screen .same thing

So he is objectively worse and you admit he is worse, but you are still going to lie and damage control? Look, having an opinion is fine, more power to you, but don't lie to others.

It's not a mystery why others want the better version back.

[(XBOX)AbroadGem64683]

Just now, tripletriple said:

So he is objectively worse and you admit he is worse, but you are still going to lie and damage control? Look, having an opinion is fine, more power to you, but don't lie to others.

It's not a mystery why others want the better version back.

Eh I prefer his new version

You prefer the old one

done

He lost his crowd killing in exchange for some damage

[tripletriple]

3 minutes ago, (XB1)AbroadGem64683 said:

Eh I prefer his new version

You prefer the old one

done

He lost his crowd killing in exchange for some damage

Overall loss of dps, he gained single target damage. 

[(XBOX)AbroadGem64683]

Just now, tripletriple said:

Overall loss of dps, he gained single target damage. 

He can still target as many targets as long as you have energy

they could change his augment into the old bladestorm

1000 damage but crowd killing

[(PSN)vl_Monarch_lv]

Ash is in a great spot right now. Greater, quite frankly, than many other frames. All of his abilities are at least good. Plus, all his augments are actually viable. 

[Rakosta_Kai]

1 hour ago, RoninJed said:

Ok well then going by your logic then I guess the ninja turtles would have more in common with ashes theme then the cartoon you keep showing hehe. I mean they use ninja weapons and stars with smoke and pizza...oh wait. 

I don't recall players asking for Shells on their back for Ash...But I do recall them asking for clones (to the collective groan of many) and getting it.

Perhaps if you feel that strongly about the Turtles, you should campaign to get those shells or even a pet rat you can call Master?

1 hour ago, RoninJed said:

Im sorry but I still think the old bladestorm fit the ninja theme better.

Nothing wrong with that...You don't know what a "Ninja Theme" is but whatever you cooked up in your head works fine for you.

1 hour ago, RoninJed said:

There is a reason why less people use him now then before the change so either way he deserves another look.

While I could certainly debate the hyperbole in this sentence it's simpler to agree with you and simply share my thoughts instead.

I think the only players Ash's change shed were crappy faceroll P4TW players who made the frame look bad to begin with.

If that resembles you, I'm glad you don't play Ash now... Ash actually requiring the use of hands now is challenging, I know, but there are still options for you...

Have fun on Saryn or whatever the current Faceroll Of The Month is.

 

 

 

 

[Marvelous_A]

No. Ash is on the less powerful side but going back is obviously not the route we should take.

Edited July 21, 2018 by Marvelous_A

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

Not going to happen but his ult does need a rework again.

[(XBOX)The Neko Otaku]

Do people who complain about reworks actually ever try out the frame afterwards or just immediately start saying the old version was better? Old Ash was fun but boring like many press 4 to win frames. Current ash is perfect as is, it lets you wipe out crowds of enemies but doesn't lock you in a animation so you have freedom to revive teammates. 

[Nazrethim]

hace 5 horas, TheMandarin dijo:

t are you guys even talking about? Ash can only kill 18 enemies with his ultimate, and that cost 100

Actually, if you divide 100 by 18 you get 5.5. That's current per-target cost while invisible, so Blade Storm currently by default costs twice as much as pre-nerf BS.

 

hace 2 horas, (XB1)AbroadGem64683 dijo:

 

Ash is better now , marking high priority targets, 3x damade compared to old ash

 

We already had a Priority Target ability in Teleport, even moreso with the augment. BS was always about murdering the grunts efficiently. And where do you get this "x3 damage"  exactly?

 

hace 1 hora, tripletriple dijo:

Hmm, let's use some basic reasoning. 

1. Kills less enemies than before? Check.

He kills more, actually. The marking system slows it down.

hace 1 hora, tripletriple dijo:

2. Uses more energy than before? Check.

Well, yeah, the ability costs twice as it did pre-nerf. Unless you use invisibility which brings the cost to nearly the same.

hace 1 hora, tripletriple dijo:

3. Less intuitive than before? Check.

4. More annoying to use? Check.

This is true. Mostly because the visual hints don't match the core mechanics. This has simple fixes though.

hace 1 hora, tripletriple dijo:

5. Less overall dps? Check.

Now how exactly is he better? 

He is better in the sense he can fight while clones clear grunts. The sh*tty part is that Teleport cannot be used at all during Blade Storm because DE couldn't figure out the fact that BS key is unused during execution and that we may want to set grunts to be dispatched by BS while we use Teleport to bring down priority targets.

 

hace 1 hora, (XB1)AbroadGem64683 dijo:

 

3 marks when you could only do 1 or 2 before

energy cost is less even with blind rage because of the enemies you are killing

not annoying for me. press 4 and spin around to screen .same thing

Correction here. The 2nd and 3rd marks aren't free, they still cost energy, and they are consumed even if the enemy had a sliver of health left after the initial or second attack, wasting energy.

Refunded energy doesn't equal reduced cost.

The press 4 and spin around isn't exactly stellar gameplay.

hace 1 hora, (XB1)AbroadGem64683 dijo:

 

they could change his augment into the old bladestorm

We go back to square one. So that's a no-no.

 

hace 43 minutos, (PS4)vl_Monarch_lv dijo:

 Plus, all his augments are actually viable. 

Correction. Rising Storm is 100% useless. That "100% combo duration" only affects the base combo counter, so at defaul Duration it's just 3s, at 200% duration it's just 6s. It's absolutely pointless and not worth the slot.

 

hace 25 minutos, (PS4)AllOrNothinDays dijo:

Not going to happen but his ult does need a rework again.

Actually, it could be made to work with a few tweaks. Namely:

-Cost reduced from 12 to 6.

-Multimarks removed (they don't add anything other than annoyance)

-Interaction with invisibility changed: instead of reducing cost, it makes clones also invisible, so they don't alert the whole planet when you use it to dispatch groups in a "stealthy" way.

-Marking Phase= Smoky effect+Monochrome/Sepia tint. Execution Phase=Smoky effect without Mono/Sepia tint. (gives a visual indicator that clones are still attacking, and it would make marking and execution phase easily distinguishable from each other)

-Rising Storm: Makes reticle a reverse peacemaker, the more targets you mark the bigger the reticle thus making easier to keep marking, reset back to pinpoint after each use. Execution phase: BS damage increases by 10% per mark used, up to 50 stacks, resets to zero when all marks are used.

hace 17 minutos, (XB1)The Neko Otaku dijo:

Current ash is perfect as is, it lets you wipe out crowds of enemies but doesn't lock you in a animation so you have freedom to revive teammates. 

Correction. Ash works, that doesn't mean he's perfect. And he can't wipe crowds due to Blade Storm being too slow for that. Hell, you would probably wipe crowds faster with a well modded melee than a well modded bladestorm. And while you can do stuff like revive teammates, that's all the utility Ash has in general, due to SShadow not leaving a cloud allies can pickup/passtrough. And let's not forget that BS disables Teleport during it's execution phase, a major flaw that needs to be fixed ASAP.

 

 

[Sasuda]

34 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

-Cost reduced from 12 to 6.

-Multimarks removed (they don't add anything other than annoyance)

-Interaction with invisibility changed: instead of reducing cost, it makes clones also invisible, so they don't alert the whole planet when you use it to dispatch groups in a "stealthy" way.

-Marking Phase= Smoky effect+Monochrome/Sepia tint. Execution Phase=Smoky effect without Mono/Sepia tint. (gives a visual indicator that clones are still attacking, and it would make marking and execution phase easily distinguishable from each other)

-Rising Storm: Makes reticle a reverse peacemaker, the more targets you mark the bigger the reticle thus making easier to keep marking, reset back to pinpoint after each use. Execution phase: BS damage increases by 10% per mark used, up to 50 stacks, resets to zero when all marks are used.

[Ash] can't wipe crowds due to Blade Storm being too slow for that [agreed]. And while you can do stuff like revive teammates, that's all the utility Ash has in general, due to [Smoke Screen] not leaving a cloud allies can pickup/passtrough. BS  [shouldn't] disable Teleport

I pretty much agree, with some slight changes on your solution.

Bladestorm's pace problem I think is largely more on the targeting phase, the fact I can use weapons simultaneously makes me relatively okay with the execution pace. I'm a little split with the multi-marking, I want it to feel like a potential addition rather than a requirement to spin around. I don't want to just trash the potential it could have. The energy cost system I think is fine with Smoke Screen cutting to half, but the numbers should be 8 and 4 respectively and invisible clones. All for the visual cue suggestion. Dropping targets out of the range limit removed or only dropped past 50m no less.

So then fixing the targeting phase speed

• Softer detection with a wider reticle
• 2 marks is the default for the targeting phase, joining bladestorm (moved to the bladestorm key) adds a 3rd mark (could maybe cost something like a flat, moddable 20? energy, 15? with Smoke Screen worth it for anything more than 5 marks) and the invulnerability.
• A 3rd could also be added through the current method costing energy and... flailing for those who are into that I guess
• Enemies hit with Shurikens are freely marked while BS is active (Shuriken change below) and marks added by shurikens may exceed the normal limit of 3 (up to 5 probs)
• auto-target any enemy within a hard (unmoddable) 5m of Ash
   

Shuriken
throws more shurikens Ash throws 2 / 3 / 4 / 6 shuriken.

 

Other things I'd like for Ash:

Smoke Screen

• cloud lingers for 50% of it's duration and turns allies that pass through invisible
• Smoke Shadow Augment stuns / blinds enemies within cloud.
• (Or vice versa Smoke Screen blinds, Smoke Shadow adds ally invisibility)

 

Teleport

• Is fast enough to not kill you if you aren't invisible
• Augment is default
• Augment now removes requirement of target and Ash teleports to what he sees

[SenorClipClop]

On 2018-07-17 at 11:01 PM, (PS4)JoelsonMS said:

Like a real ninja.

Like a real ninja. Pressing a button and immediately preventing the whole team from killing any enemy in the room as he dips around executing all of them while untouchable.