An Argument for a New Ember Passive

[(PSN)TertulSee]

With the current trend of Sanctuary Onslaught and Eidolon Hunts being “end game”, it seems one particular frame has been ignored from time to time again. Ember has been a topic of debate since the start of the year and I think of all things, a complete rework is unnecessary. Her kit does have potential and after a bunch of testing with her current passive, it becomes clear that even a little bit more power can go a long way.

What I propose is nothing really awe inspiring but more of a trend catcher. DPS Frames all scale better now. We saw this with Nidus, Hydroid, Octavia, Saryn, and even the Exalted Weapon changes affected DPS. Almost all damage abilities are affected by weapons or their mods in some way now. However, Ember on the other hand, has no scaling in anyway. Even Ash scales with melee combos but Ember has nothing. She has a once fairly useful ability for efficienct killing but now it’s not keeping up anymore because of new content. It’s not taking the Plains by storm and it’s being outclassed by every other frame now. However, this isn’t because she was “nerfed”. Her kit has some team potential with the addition of the changes to Fire Blast. However, based on the results of many runs with Ember recently, even weapons are outclassing Ember’s role. The Zenistar for example. Whips and Zaws have just added more to Ember’s competition. Ember’s damage output is insignificant compared to the current meta weapons. 

What should be changed is nothing more than a simple passive. Heat Procs will increase all the damage the target takes every second they are affected by the Proc. This will change how Ember would be used significantly than just a Damage buff.

The current “meta” use for Ember is for her Augments to buff her teammates. However, she’s completely useless without them. When is only increasing heat damage going to help anyone? This change would changed the very function of Ember and would be overpowered at first but it will help her overall as time goes on without losing the value in the near future. She’s the only one that has been caught in this infinite loop of buff and nerfs so that she would still be valuable in a team or even in solo play. However, this trend has died and Ember along with it.

A single change of this nature can go a long way in making her permanently valuable in the future. Ember is in an alright spot currently but how long will it be before she needs another buff or rework? It may never come and Ember would be forgotten as a mistake that had the potential to be good.

If you read the entire thing, I would congratulate you for sticking with me to the end. Thank you for just reading it whole.

If you feel that this idea is horrible or completely unnecessary, please say so. I feel that at least a good minority would feel the same about Ember’s current state. 

TL;DR: Her DPS is being outclassed by all frames. She’s being outclassed in efficienct killing by Weapons. Heat Procs increases all damage the enemies takes. She’s completely useless without Augments. This change makes her useful in some way without having to be buff significantly or reworked in the future.

[Sev1107]

While this is a well put argument, I'd say the point of the matter is that fire damage DOTs just needs to stack like other elements that deal DOTs, even if it's just for her. That'd more than likely fix her DPS issues, although the new Passive idea would probably be the next step as far as simple solutions go.

[NinjaZeku]

17 minutes ago, Sev1107 said:

fire damage DOTs just needs to stack like other elements that deal DOTs

Indeed, Heat procs are not very whelming in their current state.

31 minutes ago, (PS4)godlysparta said:

The current “meta” use for Ember is for her Augments to buff her teammates. However, she’s completely useless without them.

While I do want some kind of buff for the ol' fire chicken (and hate the current Passive), I can't say I agree with you here.

Ember does ~okay even in e.g. Sortie content, with some CC-ish "support fire" (get it?) from WoF
and the mass stun (plus of course damage boost) from Accelerant, no Augments needed.

Personally, I'm always down for more Squad support options, those are useful no matter the enemy level.

You could e.g. replace Fireblast (because honestly, who's going to miss that?) with ... dunno lol, what'd be a good fire-themed buff?

Maybe an AoE boost to Power Strength (with a cap) that increases the longer the ability lasts, refreshable / extendable while active,
or take what the Accelerant Augment does and change the Augment to gain an Armor-melting (get it?) effect,
or even just keep the effect as-is but change that puny fire circle thing into more of a Hallowed Ground variant, for a proper area (de)buffing deal.

Eh, just some random spontaneous ideas, I'm not good with those 😛

... hm, speaking of bad ideas, what about this for her Passive?

Inlicting a Heat proc (as well as refreshing an active one) triggers basically a Shattering Impact effect, permanently reducing base Armor.

[(PSN)TertulSee]

13 minutes ago, NinjaZeku said:

Indeed, Heat procs are not very whelming in their current state.

While I do want some kind of buff for the ol' fire chicken (and hate the current Passive), I can't say I agree with you here.

Ember does ~okay even in e.g. Sortie content, with some CC-ish "support fire" (get it?) from WoF
and the mass stun (plus of course damage boost) from Accelerant, no Augments needed.

Personally, I'm always down for more Squad support options, those are useful no matter the enemy level.

You could e.g. replace Fireblast (because honestly, who's going to miss that?) with ... dunno lol, what'd be a good fire-themed buff?

Maybe an AoE boost to Power Strength (with a cap) that increases the longer the ability lasts, refreshable / extendable while active,
or take what the Accelerant Augment does and change the Augment to gain an Armor-melting (get it?) effect,
or even just keep the effect as-is but change that puny fire circle thing into more of a Hallowed Ground variant, for a proper area (de)buffing deal.

Eh, just some random spontaneous ideas, I'm not good with those 😛

... hm, speaking of bad ideas, what about this for her Passive?

Inlicting a Heat proc (as well as refreshing an active one) triggers basically a Shattering Impact effect, permanently reducing base Armor.

What I’m aiming for is not a small buff here and there, what I want is to make it so that she can stay relevant in the future. Removing armor isn’t actually going to help as much because Grineer and their corrupted counterparts are the only ones with armor. Removing armor won’t make her any better for lasting results. The point is to make her more group friendly but also keep the aspects that make what Ember is.

[Birdframe_Prime]

An argument to keep it, with a caveat:

Ember's damage is not actually insignificant if you use her correctly, because she not only buffs her own damage, she buffs weapon damage and allied weapon damage. With Accelerant you gain the default buff to Fire damage and casting speed, but if you fire through Fire Blast's ring of fire you gain additional fire damage on your weapons. So with a decent Strength build, you can make any good weapon way, way better, while keeping up CC with repeat casts of Accelerant and Fire Blast to perform multiple staggers and panic procs.

But you're right, the passive is... a regrettable thing.

Unless... you had a combo that could activate it. For example, after casting Accelerant, while standing in the ring of fire from Fire Blast, casting Fireball at your feet would Ignite Ember for the minimum duration of 6 seconds. Gaining her a lovely 60 energy as long as she's not currently using World on Fire. So repeat casts within that time would not 'top up' the duration, and you would have to re-cast Accelerant to repeat the effect, but if you're willing to spend a little to get a return, you could technically Ignite Ember every 6 seconds to get massive energy regen.

In that case it would probably need to be nerfed a little, maybe down to 5 energy per second, keep it in balance with the Zenurik function, but still... a cut-down Zenurik Energy Overflow is far better than nothing, right?

[Almagnus1]

That'd help, but at the same time, how long do you really expect things to live in Warframe?

IMO the passive should be something like "fire damage deals +5%(target's HP) damage, or something similar.

Having a total rework of all of Ember's abilities would also help, including the WoF nerf that basically broke Ember.

Edited July 20, 2018 by Almagnus1

[GenthReborn]

8 hours ago, Thaylien said:

An argument to keep it, with a caveat:

Ember's damage is not actually insignificant if you use her correctly, because she not only buffs her own damage, she buffs weapon damage and allied weapon damage. With Accelerant you gain the default buff to Fire damage and casting speed, but if you fire through Fire Blast's ring of fire you gain additional fire damage on your weapons. So with a decent Strength build, you can make any good weapon way, way better, while keeping up CC with repeat casts of Accelerant and Fire Blast to perform multiple staggers and panic procs.

But you're right, the passive is... a regrettable thing.

Unless... you had a combo that could activate it. For example, after casting Accelerant, while standing in the ring of fire from Fire Blast, casting Fireball at your feet would Ignite Ember for the minimum duration of 6 seconds. Gaining her a lovely 60 energy as long as she's not currently using World on Fire. So repeat casts within that time would not 'top up' the duration, and you would have to re-cast Accelerant to repeat the effect, but if you're willing to spend a little to get a return, you could technically Ignite Ember every 6 seconds to get massive energy regen.

In that case it would probably need to be nerfed a little, maybe down to 5 energy per second, keep it in balance with the Zenurik function, but still... a cut-down Zenurik Energy Overflow is far better than nothing, right?

I'd love to be able to use accelerant + fire blast to get more damage, and agree that would bring her up, but the problem is that she's too flimsy and relies on moving around too much for the ring of fire from fire blast to be useful. I use accelerant and Ignis/Atomos to great effect on sub-50 enemies, but as soon as I get into sortie her effectiveness drops off really quickly. Modding in viral damage on the Ignis helps, but not that much. 

[Birdframe_Prime]

30 minutes ago, GenthReborn said:

I'd love to be able to use accelerant + fire blast to get more damage, and agree that would bring her up

No, you actually get that already... it's part of the abilities right now ^^ Yes you have the problem of higher levels needing to move around more, but that's the beauty of it, you can cast multiple rings and recast Accelerant all you like in order to keep those enemies stunned, and have a secondary type of stun and damage boost when you use Fireblast.

The suggestion was simply to be able to ignite yourself to trigger the passive, but to make that require an energy investment in the first place in the same way as Octavia has to cast to trigger Inspire.

But I've not had a problem for a long time of keeping Ember alive thanks to all the base movement and one of the greatest over-looked mechanics in game, which is cover and positioning. I can keep pretty much any frame alive using those, but you're right, she's no tank, she does die easily.

But if you use the other abilities more, she definitely has more survivability than you'd think.

[(PSN)TertulSee]

23 minutes ago, Thaylien said:

No, you actually get that already... it's part of the abilities right now ^^ Yes you have the problem of higher levels needing to move around more, but that's the beauty of it, you can cast multiple rings and recast Accelerant all you like in order to keep those enemies stunned, and have a secondary type of stun and damage boost when you use Fireblast.

The suggestion was simply to be able to ignite yourself to trigger the passive, but to make that require an energy investment in the first place in the same way as Octavia has to cast to trigger Inspire.

But I've not had a problem for a long time of keeping Ember alive thanks to all the base movement and one of the greatest over-looked mechanics in game, which is cover and positioning. I can keep pretty much any frame alive using those, but you're right, she's no tank, she does die easily.

But if you use the other abilities more, she definitely has more survivability than you'd think.

Overall, I don’t think that it would be able to help her long term just to give her some survivability now. Yes, the fire damage buff is helpful but it isn’t enough because it can be out done by many other frames such as Volt. The goal is to make her relevant but still feel unique rather than a Volt clone. The way she is right now is good but it’s still one of the weakest if not the weakest kits in the game. A complete rework may not be necessary but adjustments to move her away from just room nuking to gradually making it scale with effort can help Ember be in a much better spot. I’ve tested builds and it’s apparent that Ember can not push out as much damage as Chroma or Banshee with her abilities especially towards Grineer. I don’t want her to be too faction specific as she is now. Armor becomes too large a problem that it’s not worth it to just force armor removal.

At higher levels, she can be survivable. However, that’s not the main concern. It’s the fact that she’s slowly being outclassed completely.

[Almagnus1]

1 hour ago, (PS4)godlysparta said:

At higher levels, she can be survivable. However, that’s not the main concern. It’s the fact that she’s slowly being outclassed completely.

That was the one thing old WoF helped with, as the range was critical to making Firequake actually work in a way that doesn't open Ember getting deaded.

The problem is Ember needs to have an identity different from the other elemental frames, and turning Ember into a close range brawler would fit with the direction of the kit, but that also means Ember needs a way to deal with armor and increased survivability or she's still gonna the fire that's bawling in a dumpster.

[Birdframe_Prime]

10 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

That was the one thing old WoF helped with, as the range was critical to making Firequake actually work in a way that doesn't open Ember getting deaded.

As a player that took Ember to multiple high-level runs before Firequake existed, every time somebody says this I have to laugh. Firequake gave her an easier time, yes, but Accelerant and Fireblast CC was enough to get her past an hour and a half on high level survival (if you had at least one friend with you) regardless of the faction. And that was before Fireblast added damage to your weapons for shooting through the ring of fire.

Still, you guys are not wrong that Ember does need a buff beyond simply being able to regen energy on demand and buff her own casting strength.

Now me? Rather than more damage, because Embers damage buff to weapons and debuff to enemy damage taken is actually significant enough that playing around these can net some really good results at higher levels, while World on Fire can clean up those not-quite-so-high-levels, especially with an Accelerant boost, I'd think about something unlikely, but themed, that could reduce damage taken.

You see, Ember's damage type doesn't deal with armour, it's not supposed to, weapons and other things can do that, and causing an averave of over 5x damage multiplier to heat damage, plus giving 50% Heat damage to your weapons, means that whatever your weapon is dealing will have a buff of 280% Heat damage on it. Add this to any already-decent weapon and you will melt quite a lot of things. (The best bit about this is that 50% base Heat to your weapon won't overly de-balance your status chances for other damage types, if you're modding for Corrosive damage to strip armour, that will still proc more often than the fire proc, same with Slash, but your base damage when you actually hit will be higher so that you're making more use out of each Corrosive proc, and more Bleed out of each Bleed Proc).

If somebody wants to call this a discount Volt, too bad, she already does this. It's already how you can play her.

No, Ember's damage buffing can be significant, and her ability to clear out squishies is also significant. If you gave her the ability to proc her own passive too? Good, you can keep that damage going and even buff it due to the Ability Strength buff (more .

But that's not where we want to take her in this comment ^^ Ember used to have Overheat, which was a straight-out damage debuff, and DE don't want that, so let's look at ways of mechanically avoiding damage instead.

Picture this; physical fire objects created by Ember (Fireballs and Fireblasts) have a 50% chance, scaling with mods, to eliminate or redirect projectiles.

Now this is only an example, off the top of my head. There are other ideas too. But this makes her play around her abilities even more, get her to place Fire Blasts and throw fully charged Fireballs pre-emptively so that enemies are damaging her less often as they approach. And with Fire Blast in play, you'll also be shooting at the enemy through it to gain the damage buff to your weapons.

Call it 'heat distortion' or something. Basically if an enemy's line of fire is through a Fireball projectile or through a Fire Blast, there is a percent chance that the projectile is destroyed by the heat or redirected by it. It's like a discount Turbulence, and this version means you could scale it up to 100% chance, too, so you have a 'placed' Turbulence that you can play around.

There are other versions, other ways to show it, like 'incoming damage passing through placed fire objects deals 50% less damage, scaling with mods, capped at 95%'

And I know, while scaling this up through the enemy levels, this will become less and less useful, which is why I suggested the other variant first, but if other frames can have 90-95% damage reduction just for casting the ability, and while other frames can get 100% damage reduction from a direction just for casting a stationary object, why can't Ember get 95% damage reduction for casting a stationary object?

If her play-style is already so similar to Volt's with the placed objects, and nobody but players like me have noticed yet, then let's make it even better than his play-style.

Let's make Volt the discount Ember, where his shield is okay, but can't evaporate projectiles and his shields barely damage the enemy at all, where his damage buff for shooting through shields is okay, but he can't make that damage actually more effective by debuffing the enemy too, where he can buff speed but a whole portion of the player-base finds that incredibly annoying, but Ember can provide stun and panic CC which nobody minds at all.

Heh, let's make them rework Volt because Ember does what he does better ^^

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 12 Stunden schrieb Almagnus1:

That was the one thing old WoF helped with, as the range was critical to making Firequake actually work in a way that doesn't open Ember getting deaded.

The problem is Ember needs to have an identity different from the other elemental frames, and turning Ember into a close range brawler would fit with the direction of the kit, but that also means Ember needs a way to deal with armor and increased survivability or she's still gonna the fire that's bawling in a dumpster.

That's what current WoF in combination with accelerant still does.

Between a long range active stun and a short range permanent one, what is there that could really harm her?

Edited July 21, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Almagnus1]

6 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

That's what current WoF in combination with accelerant still does.

Between a long range active stun and a short range permanent one, what is there that could really harm her?

However, Fireblast doesn't work for a melee brawler because pushing things away from melee range is counter productive, let alone you need to have sufficient damage prevention/mitigation if you want a melee frame to work well - that's why Atlas works, and why Inaros can do the Macerena in front of enemies... then pocket sand + Covert Lethality them.

[ljmadruga]

Ember’s not gonna get another look until maybe after her next unvaulting.

At the current time, she’s not worth a loadout slot, a forma, a reactor, or even a warframe slot. She’s not worth the grind for her and especially not the platinum she costs in the market.

[Birdframe_Prime]

1 hour ago, Almagnus1 said:

However, Fireblast doesn't work for a melee brawler because pushing things away from melee range is counter productive,

You're losing things here, no offense. The idea isn't to rework Ember as a brawler. Fireblast is ranged, Fireball is ranged, Accelerant is ranged. It's literally just World on Fire that gets less range over time as a deliberate move to stop it from being as powerful at range. It was nerfed to stop it from hitting things out of line-of-sight, without actually giving it the line-of-sight nerf. Meanwhile it gets more damage as a way to balance out the range nerf, and that only.

Ember is, and should remain, a caster, with damage, buffs and debuffs. What all the other casters have, as far as I can find, that Ember does not, is a more consistent way of surviving.

Glass cannons traditionally have a way to mitigate damage that doesn't involve tanking and is limited in some way, like Nova's 1 giving bonus damage reduction based on how much duration you have, up to 95% damage reduction, but limited by the fact that you actually lose defense as you get close to enemies because your defense peels off as small bits of damage. She also has Molecular Prime to apply a slow, for most of the time, which gives her that little bit more survivability, but not the face-tanky type.

Mirage is very fragile, but has Hall of Mirrors to mitigate damage by decoying the damage, and part of Eclipse will give her damage reduction up to a high value when you aren't using it for damage buffing.

Mag is similar, she can produce massive point damage, but has no actual damage mitigation casts, with the exception of 2's ability to absorb direct damage if it's between her and enemies and her Augmented 3 which can jam weapons and CC robotic enemies.

So... why doesn't Ember have something similar? She used to have Overheat, but... again, that's just gone, DE didn't want her to have that.

That simple function, a damage mitigation type of ability, anything that could allow actual survivability beyond 'kill them before they kill you'.

Ember can produce damage, it's actually really surprising how much she can achieve, but because of only having stun CC she can't survive to deal that damage. A mechanical way to mitigate damage is all that Ember needs to boost her back to active play ^^

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Almagnus1:

However, Fireblast doesn't work for a melee brawler because pushing things away from melee range is counter productive, let alone you need to have sufficient damage prevention/mitigation if you want a melee frame to work well - that's why Atlas works, and why Inaros can do the Macerena in front of enemies... then pocket sand + Covert Lethality them.

Fireblast? The literall ranged buff? And bringing up Covert lethality for melee brawlers? That's really just the one thing in the game that does not use but rather ruins your melee for anything but the one specific use. Or have you ever seen anyone seriously using a dagger for anything but finishers?

That one ain't even essencially inferior to amplified finishers off of a 800% base... there's many things counting as melee in this game but dude, CL daggers are not.

Anyways, that overall pretty much ranged ability is even usefull for a melee frame. There's only a hand full abilities of that kind in the game... Fire blast ranks there with nekros terrify and frosts globe, it's a ability that's quite literally meant to push enemys away. Away from defensive targets, away from a position. Its status is guaranteed so it's refreshing the duration for any procc you've set with your melee and what remains is damage in melee range that also buffs bullets.

What makes a melee frame good for me is its use extending the minor window melee gives you. I love volt as a melee frame cause he's the only one with a frickin nuke while also providing running and attack speed. I love ash cause you can nuke enemy with both his shuriken and his BS and ember with her midrange damage, high range damage Cc and also her strategic push back, that one ranks among those with ease.

Edited July 21, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[(PSN)TertulSee]

2 minutes ago, ljmadruga said:

Ember’s not gonna get another look until maybe after her next unvaulting.

At the current time, she’s not worth a loadout slot, a forma, a reactor, or even a warframe slot. She’s not worth the grind for her and especially not the platinum she costs in the market.

It may not matter to a new player but it does matter to players that have every single frame (besides Excalibur Prime). I happen to be one of those people who basically grinded for everything. Just because she’s vaulted and unable to be accessed by other players doesn’t mean that she should be completely ignored. It’s called constructive criticism.

Despite what you may think, people actually like Ember. She is very nice looking and a good fashion frame. It’s just a waste to have her at her current state.

[(PSN)TertulSee]

1 hour ago, Almagnus1 said:

However, Fireblast doesn't work for a melee brawler because pushing things away from melee range is counter productive, let alone you need to have sufficient damage prevention/mitigation if you want a melee frame to work well - that's why Atlas works, and why Inaros can do the Macerena in front of enemies... then pocket sand + Covert Lethality them.

Ember isn’t meant to be a melee brawler Frame. In fact, a lot of frames aren’t suppose to be melee brawler Frames. Take Volt or Banshee for example. If they walk in melee range, they will get one shot at high levels. If you want to hit enemies with your flimsy stick, then use Accelerant or something. There are a lot of melee unfriendly frames. Fire Blast is fine. You don’t expect Crit to be buffed by Volt’s Shield too do you?

[Almagnus1]

15 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Or have you ever seen anyone seriously using a dagger for anything but finishers?

Zaw Dagger + http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Stinging_Thorn (has finishers in the attack chain) + Covert Lethality = Bloodrush/Covert Lethality dagger

Just because you can't figure out how to do something, doesn't mean it's useless.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Almagnus1:

Zaw Dagger + http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Stinging_Thorn (has finishers in the attack chain) + Covert Lethality = Bloodrush/Covert Lethality dagger

Just because you can't figure out how to do something, doesn't mean it's useless.

Try to compare that to a propper melee weapon.

[Almagnus1]

28 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Try to compare that to a propper melee weapon.

Considering it will be proc'ing covert lethality as you swarm enemies (thus oneshotting a lot of them), and as I've taken it into an Eximus stronghold sortie 3 and mown through swarms of eximus - I'd say it holds its own rather well.

The key is in the stance, Zaw daggers being strictly better than non-Zaw daggers, and actually having enough crit chance to properly leverage Bloodrush with an elemental combo.

If you do a build like:

https://semlar.com/zawcalc/0014 https://goo.gl/mjZzJv http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Exodia_Might

It's quite the force of destruction.

[Birdframe_Prime]

1 hour ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Try to compare that to a propper melee weapon.

41 minutes ago, Almagnus1 said:

It's quite the force of destruction.

Guys, off topic.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor 25 Minuten schrieb Thaylien:

Guys, off topic.

Kinda but then again, really not. It's become the foundation of "melee play" for quite a few youtubers recently that care less about usability but they do about raw numbers from singletarget actions under a specific circumstance. It's become an example that puts frames that are as far off from any sort of melee synergy as anyhow possible on a podest they really don't deserve and in here, it's been made an example that undermines the fact that ember, while not beein a pure melee frame is really, really ... like seriously good at it.

There's little in the game that rivals a heat melee wielding ember... are we really gonna disregard that because a hand full of frames can open to finishers and she can't by design?

Edited July 21, 2018 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Almagnus1]

46 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Kinda but then again, really not. It's become the foundation of "melee play" for quite a few youtubers recently that care less about usability but they do about raw numbers from singletarget actions under a specific circumstance. It's become an example that puts frames that are as far off from any sort of melee synergy as anyhow possible on a podest they really don't deserve and in here, it's been made an example that undermines the fact that ember, while not beein a pure melee frame is really, really ... like seriously good at it.

There's little in the game that rivals a heat melee wielding ember... are we really gonna disregard that because a hand full of frames can open to finishers and she can't by design?

Try her with that zaw dagger (with a tweaked build) and say that.

[ljmadruga]

6 hours ago, (PS4)godlysparta said:

It may not matter to a new player but it does matter to players that have every single frame (besides Excalibur Prime). I happen to be one of those people who basically grinded for everything. Just because she’s vaulted and unable to be accessed by other players doesn’t mean that she should be completely ignored. It’s called constructive criticism.

Despite what you may think, people actually like Ember. She is very nice looking and a good fashion frame. It’s just a waste to have her at her current state.

You misunderstand. Based on DE’s past rework patterns, they’re not going to rework ember anytime soon. They always rework frames just before a prime access or a deluxe skin is released if they happen to be in a poor state.

Limbo’s was a minor exception because he was reworked shortly before his first tenno gen helm was released.

I used to like ember, back when she could keep a wide area of enemies knocked down and controlled. Now, I replaced her loadout slot with Khora, which is saying something.