Please DE, I implore you, don't let eidolon warframe ship with his current 3.

[tripletriple]

1 minute ago, --Laughing-Soul-- said:

nullifying large amounts of damage. A get out of jail free card is never useless.

And if you are playing content where you insta die from full hp you are out of your league and deserve to die over and over and over.

 

2 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

I suspect an energy rework will come one day that kills Energise/Zenuirk's and potentially even Trinity's ability to remove energy concerns for basically no effort, and when that happens energy giving frames will be at a premium.

With the amount of damage people can do, shrug. Nyx does nothing but create minions and by using Arcane Guardian + Grace she will have plenty of survivability and self heals, but people still use her Absorb + Augment for a reason.

Regardless, it's really far too early to be questioning things like ''does he need an escape''. We'll know when we play him.

When it heals you as well? You're suggesting the ability is bad because the moment it's deactivated your full health frame will instantly die...

If enemies are dealing that much damage then you're playing content you shouldn't be in, and that's rather irrelevant to the conversation. You should know better.

First off all you need to actually hit the target that is shooting you to heal, you don't just heal for no reason. So, if you are being shot from a distance, because of this skills abysmal range you will die when you step out of it.

Second, if you are doing lower level content why would you need it? You have a damage soaking ability and the passive ability to ability regen.

Easy to see how bad it is if you really think.

[seprent]

4 minutes ago, --Laughing-Soul-- said:

nullifying large amounts of damage. A get out of jail free card is never useless.

And if you are playing content where you insta die from full hp you are out of your league and deserve to die over and over and over.

ok off topic what is your glyph it looks like rhino wearing a predator mask i must know 

[BoomyGordo]

1 minute ago, tripletriple said:

 

First off all you need to actually hit the target that is shooting you to heal, you don't just heal for no reason. So, if you are being shot from a distance, because of this skills abysmal range you will die when you step out of it.

Second, if you are doing lower level content why would you need it? You have a damage soaking ability and the passive ability to ability regen.

Easy to see how bad it is if you really think.

easy to see how bad your arguments are if you barely think. The game is not just low level and insta death content, and it is not just situations where the ability is bad. The vast majority of this game is close quarters hoard shooter, so there will almost always be enemies close enough to heal from.

And unless the ability is completely stationary, you can use it to dip into cover if things get too dicey at range.

[DeMonkey]

9 minutes ago, tripletriple said:

 

First off all you need to actually hit the target that is shooting you to heal, you don't just heal for no reason. So, if you are being shot from a distance, because of this skills abysmal range you will die when you step out of it.

Second, if you are doing lower level content why would you need it? You have a damage soaking ability and the passive ability to ability regen.

Easy to see how bad it is if you really think.

First: Then go into cover, bullet jump to the enemy, look for other enemies. Do anything other than look at worst case scenario things and assume them to be the norm.

How often is there an enemy damaging you from a distance that you can't avoid, really? And what's to stop you using the ability twice to get over to them if you're so darned set on getting to that one enemy.

Second: There is such a wide gulf between ''lower level content'' and ''one shotting content'' that it's laughable you'd even bring it up. 

Why do we need Blessing? Why do we need Hysteria? Both Valkyr and Trinity have other damage soaking abilities and access to other methods of healing, and yet the abilities still get used by players. It's almost like escapes in the form of healing+invuln are actually pretty useful to some players, not to you apparently, but nothing revolves around you.

Easy to see if you use your noggin.

Edited July 21, 2018 by DeMonkey

[rune_me]

2 hours ago, tripletriple said:

Many people have enough experience to where they can analyze a mechanic before it's released and understand how it will be utilized in game.

Many people lack the experience to understand where to post on these forums, and thus post their feedback directed to DE in the wrong sections where no one from DE will ever read it.

[tripletriple]

1 minute ago, --Laughing-Soul-- said:

easy to see how bad your arguments are if you barely think. The game is not just low level and insta death content, and it is not just situations where the ability is bad. The vast majority of this game is close quarters hoard shooter, so there will almost always be enemies close enough to heal from.

And unless the ability is completely stationary, you can use it to dip into cover if things get too dicey at range.

You haven't refuted my argument at all. It's like you just say random things without putting any context to them. lmao.

A) Your scenario is you are low health and you need to use it to get behind cover. How will you do that with it's terrible range? And B) You have to be in a situation where things got dicey. So the enemies have to be able to damage you past your 2 and your healing from your passive. So, how exactly are you going to survive the moment you step out of your 3?

Just wow.

[GinKenshin]

14 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

I suspect an energy rework will come one day that kills Energise/Zenuirk's and potentially even Trinity's ability to remove energy concerns for basically no effort, and when that happens energy giving frames will be at a premium.

With the amount of damage people can do, shrug. Nyx does nothing but create minions and by using Arcane Guardian + Grace she will have plenty of survivability and self heals, but people still use her Absorb + Augment for a reason.

Regardless, it's really far too early to be questioning things like ''does he need an escape''. We'll know when we play him.

 

actually, it's convenient that you replied to me because you just reminded me of something similar to this: 

I think this kinda resembles Wukong's defy and could walker, the latter being similar to vlad's 3rd...cloud walker is also sort of an escape ability, but Wukong doesn't really need one. vlad also has his 2 which gives him eidolon armor (which I assume gives him armor, or acts like amesha's 1) which is on top of the survivability stuff I mentioned before 

 

I wouldn't say nyx has minions, she only has one, the chaos ability is just that, chaos blood for the blood god! so they're not exactly minions, just potential distractions. and the stuff you mentioned aren't innate to the frame, you need arcanes for that so I don't think it applies : / 

 

28 minutes ago, --Laughing-Soul-- said:

excalibur's slash dash does abysmal damage at higher levels, and it barely lasts any time at all unless you manage to target more than one enemy with it at a time. But it has invunerability during the animation and i've used it to avoid otherwise lethal damage on multiple occasions. I still say we have to wait and see how it really works before passing judgment on it

fair enough 

[DeMonkey]

Just now, GinKenshin said:

actually, it's convenient that you replied to me because you just reminded me of something similar to this: 

I think this kinda resembles Wukong's defy and could walker, the latter being similar to vlad's 3rd...cloud walker is also sort of an escape ability, but Wukong doesn't really need one. vlad also has his 2 which gives him eidolon armor (which I assume gives him armor, or acts like amesha's 1) which is on top of the survivability stuff I mentioned before

Way ahead of you.

Planning on making a thread about it when he's released in the same vein as my Whipclaw vs Iron Jab one.

1 minute ago, GinKenshin said:

I wouldn't say nyx has minions, she only has one, the chaos ability is just that, chaos blood for the blood god! so they're not exactly minions, just potential distractions. and the stuff you mentioned aren't innate to the frame, you need arcanes for that so I don't think it applies : /

I thought Vlad's minions were intended to behave in a similar manner? Regardless, Nyx can affect far more than Vlad's 20, and it's easy enough to have them fight each other by breaking LoS from them.

And yes, Arcanes aren't innate. But my point was more that even with minions and a form of self heal, having a get out of jail free card is still useful.

[BoomyGordo]

15 minutes ago, tripletriple said:

You haven't refuted my argument at all. It's like you just say random things without putting any context to them. lmao.

A) Your scenario is you are low health and you need to use it to get behind cover. How will you do that with it's terrible range? And B) You have to be in a situation where things got dicey. So the enemies have to be able to damage you past your 2 and your healing from your passive. So, how exactly are you going to survive the moment you step out of your 3?

Just wow.

There is nothing to refute because you have no argument. We don't know its range, and even if we did this game has range mods that are used in many builds. So that whole "argument" wasnt even one to start with. You also once again ignored parts of the argument to support your own, you are more predictable than a grand father clock

You try and talk down to me and then use that bad of an argument? Let me just tear that entire second point of yours into a bloody mess by applying your logic to other frames. enemies can kill you when iron skin is gone right? guess that makes iron skin useless too. enemies can kill oberon when his regen turns off, guess reckoning is useless too.

you are stuck in an echo chamber and at this point im sure you are trolling with how bad you are making your arguments. i wont reply to you further because it is just not worth it. have a good life.

Edited July 21, 2018 by --Laughing-Soul--

[EchoesOfRain]

I knew there was a reference for how I wish the 3rd ability worked

 

This is what I imagine the ability should work like. Notice the "Smoke Dash". It's quick and has a decent distance. Being able to dodge and weave through hordes of enemies like this would be a lot better

 

[(XBOX)ECCHO SIERRA]

3 hours ago, Omega-Shadowblade said:

his one turns an enemy into a thrall which spreads when they damage another enemy up to 20 enemies. Killing these thralls leaves mines on the ground for enemies to get hurt by. His 2 gives him some kind of armor that staggers and enthralls enemies who attack him but has a set number of stacks. His 3 turns him into mist and dashing through enemies restores health and shields. his 4 is the eidolon laser attacks though its still WIP they were using a placeholder of inaros' sandstorm animation.

Thank you for explaining why he was spinning, then, I didn't get to watch the whole stream and that looked silly.

I Think he has a lot of potential I just hope he isn't weighted down by abilities that dont ddcale very well in the end.

[(PSN)vl_Monarch_lv]

Only thing I'm worried about is the startup time on the three. From the looks of it it seems to be in the range of Limbos powers.

Ergo, really slow.

[Felsagger]

6 hours ago, tripletriple said:

So many warframes are plagued with abilities that just don't do anything. Those skills are not fun and they don't do anything. Please don't ship him to have one of those skills.

His 3 needs to go DE. I've come up with some alternatives that make him closer to the eidolon theme and still keep him relevant.

1. Eidolon Frame releases a bolt of lightning that shocks everyone in your control and instantly reduces them to a crisp. 1 shot might be op but you get the deal, change the damage on it if needed.

2 My personal favourite suggestion. Eidolon Frame has three Eidolon Vomvalysts that fire lasers that stun enemies. One increases your teams crit damage and crit chance, another one could provide heals to the team, and a third would fire enhanced lasers of some sort.

3. On the topic of more lasers, Eidolon Frame fires a laser beam at a single target, this target explodes blinding everyone around him and does 4 % of their max hp for 10 seconds.

I'm sure anyone reading this has a brilliant idea now that would give Eidolon Frame something more interesting than a wukong dash that brings nothing to the table. Please DE.

 

We need to have some beta testing on him. That's how DE gathers statistical information. Sometimes DE scores a hit and sometimes they miss because, you know, they are human. They can make mistakes and then amends them. Yes DE took a lot with Oberon and many other frames. Sadly the scientific method is troubling and in order to see a fault we need to beta test the whole thing. 

We,"the losers" (reference to an interview where Rebecca called us losers), have to beta test the frame and see if the third ability has some use. We have to wait and sit in line until the DE personnel deals with the endgame structure of the frame and the relevance of it in the game parameters. Sorry but there is no other way. Trying to predict any potential flaw is fruitless because there is no generated testing data. DE must show some interest in the frame depending on the CONSUMPTION and popularity of it. 

Remember this is a business that depends on likes and dislikes. If a frame is not that popular the fix is not going to be scheduled. That how it goes. 

Edited July 21, 2018 by Felsagger

[Corvid]

11 minutes ago, tripletriple said:

1. The skill cost base 75.

[tripletriple]

1 minute ago, Corvid said:

Every third ability cost 75 base. (Not counting nidus). I'm not sure if there is an outlier but that's how warframe works.

[DeMonkey]

19 minutes ago, tripletriple said:

Considering your entire last post was just about me, maybe you should take a second to step back, and relax. Take a time out and come back. 

I was providing information on why the post in question was not aggressive due to the raised points being statements of fact, not accusations.

Unfortunately yes, that means I have to talk about you. Again however, I was clarifying why said poster said what they did about you. It's not hard to understand.

19 minutes ago, tripletriple said:

1. The skill cost base 75.

2. Has Terrible range and terrible cast time.

3. Extremely slow.

4. All it does is heal you, but you have a passive that does that and your second ability gives you a shield.

So, what exactly is your reasoning for wanting this?

1) I'd like to see the proof that it costs 75 energy, but lets work under the basis that it does.

You're right. Energy is so difficult to get in this game. It would be great if Vlad had either:

a) An ability that grants him energy, or

b) Multiple ways of healing himself allowing him to make excellent use of rage/adrenaline.

Alas, without either you are right. Zenurik and Arcane Energise just aren't enough to cover the use of a 75 energy ability (pre modding ofc).

2) Can be tweaked, and likely will be tweaked once people get the frame and complain enough.

3) We don't know how mods affect it (which also applies to point 2), so we have no idea what the modded speed/range will be like.

4) And give energy, invulnerability and (last I heard) marks enemies... Again, cherry picking.

Furthermore, the shield on his #2 doesn't seem to be anywhere near as useful as you're making it out to be. Either it has sucky health or it's duration based because Rebecca's casting it pretty frequently. In either instance there's going to come a point where it's about to drop and you're going to be in danger. An invulnerable escape, that heals, provides energy and stops the enemy immediately shooting you is a good thing.

Tweaks may need to happen to it, nothing is flawless, but it's far from useless.

Once again you have failed to prove it's useless.

4 minutes ago, tripletriple said:

Every third ability cost 75 base. (Not counting nidus). I'm not sure if there is an outlier but that's how warframe works.

It really amazes me how condescending you can be regarding game knowledge, whilst showing such little knowledge of the game yourself.

Electric Shield is 50 energy.

Cloudwalker is 25 energy.

Teleport is 25 energy.

Snowglobe is 50 energy.

Toxic Lash is 50 energy.

Renewal is 25 energy.

Need I continue?

Edited July 21, 2018 by DeMonkey

[rune_me]

6 minutes ago, tripletriple said:

Every third ability cost 75 base. (Not counting nidus). I'm not sure if there is an outlier but that's how warframe works.

That’s not how Warframe works at all, no. Maybe you should play the game more, get some experience with Warframe and learn about the mechanics of the game, before you start making suggestions on what needs changing. Just saying.

[tripletriple]

11 minutes ago, rune_me said:

That’s not how Warframe works at all, no. Maybe you should play the game more, get some experience with Warframe and learn about the mechanics of the game, before you start making suggestions on what needs changing. Just saying.

I was wrong about the energy numbers, but dont get ahead of yourself. I know enough about warframe and have been playing for 5 years. 

75 used to be a common 3rd ability number. 

[LupisV0lk]

24 minutes ago, rune_me said:

That’s not how Warframe works at all, no. Maybe you should play the game more, get some experience with Warframe and learn about the mechanics of the game, before you start making suggestions on what needs changing. Just saying.

Wait are you saying that to make any call about how a frame plays and the balance behind it requires us to have first hand experience with said frame? Who'd a guessed?

[NeithanDiniem]

4 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

What logical thought was there to be had in the first place though?

I was honestly looking forward to the potential of discussion of variant abilities or theory crafting new abilities. Sometimes gems can be found, but sadly it was not to be.

[LupisV0lk]

1 minute ago, NeithanDiniem said:

I was honestly looking forward to the potential of discussion of variant abilities or theory crafting new abilities. Sometimes gems can be found, but sadly it was not to be.

Honestly i'm not a big fan of TheoryCrafting because that tends to lead to expectations not meeting reality.

Just look at the community reaction to Khora and her kit.

Edited July 21, 2018 by LupisV0lk

[NeithanDiniem]

Just now, LupisV0lk said:

Honestly i'm not a big fan of TheoryCrafting because that tends to lead to expectations not meeting reality.

Just look at the community reaction to Khora and her kit.

Oh I am aware, sadly people get really bloated ideas in their minds that they cant step back from and apply logical thought, deductive reasoning, and cause and effect to to find issues in the mechanics and logic faults with their ideas. Its a good hobby to do if one can keep that distance from it instead of treating their idea as their precious.

[Felsagger]

Ok back to the subject. 

 

If we want to see the third ability becomes useful let the warframe be released and people use him. Only then we will know if his third ability is relevant or irrelevant. 

[LupisV0lk]

2 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Ok back to the subject. 

 

If we want to see the third ability becomes useful let the warframe be released and people use him. Only then we will know if his third ability is relevant or irrelevant. 

And we'll get that When it's ready.

But i know for a fact that some will consider it irrelevant, DoA or worse and that's before we've gotten our hands on it.

Frankly i'm sick of the knee jerk culture we have not only in this community but in gaming in general.

Edited July 21, 2018 by LupisV0lk

[DeMonkey]

8 minutes ago, NeithanDiniem said:

I was honestly looking forward to the potential of discussion of variant abilities or theory crafting new abilities. Sometimes gems can be found, but sadly it was not to be.

Hmmm, not really to my tastes personally (although that doesn't mean I'd hold bias over a thread). 

Such a thing I see as more fitting for when we only have the theme of a future frame, so for Garuda I could totally understand theory crafting and discussion. For a frame that's already being shown off though? Eh. Not for me.

3 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

If we want to see the third ability becomes useful let the warframe be released and people use him. Only then we will know if his third ability is relevant or irrelevant. 

Absolutely, especially when some of the given arguments against it are ''the Warframe is survivable enough already''. Not only do we not fully understand the ability but we don't know how tanky it's actually going to be.

Detailed feedback on anything more than ability visuals is virtually impossible.