My issue with polarizing gear

[(PSN)FatMacBrbn]

Polarizing our gear for mods is a good implementation and allows for some great customization of our gear. However, after taking a break from the game and now returning, I feel that re-leveling our gear back to max level 30 after changing the polarity hinders the players time in game. The initial process feels balanced enough already with having to get forma (a grind in itself), followed by having to gather forma resources (possibly more farming), then having to craft it (waiting is still a soft wall of progression). I'm cool with all of that however, I understand not just giving things away and all that. But it's when all of that results in the player re-leveling the gear again that I start to wane.

The whole re-leveling thing feels so unnecessary to me right now, especially after having done it many times over these pass two years. I'd go so far as to call it an annoyance, a chore at this point. It's not satisfying to do, it takes time away from enjoying other areas of the game, and it feels outdated. I don't know what game, business, personal, or other reason could be to keep this re-leveling baggage, though I would like to hear it. But being able to use our Forma to Polarize and not have to re-level our gear again is what I'd like to see. 

Edited July 22, 2018 by (PS4)FatMacBrbn

[PoisonHD]

It's a timewall to prevent you from instantly slapping 5 forma on something, nothing more. To me, it also feels a lot better to use the weapon after you've put the time in releveling it a bunch

[HugintheCrow]

27 minutes ago, (PS4)FatMacBrbn said:

Polarizing our gear for mods is a good implementation and allows for some great customization of our gear. However, after taking a break from the game and now returning, I feel that re-leveling our gear back to max level 30 after changing the polarity hinders the players time in game. The initial process feels balanced enough already with having to get forma (a grind in itself), followed by having to gather forma resources (possibly more farming), then having to craft it (waiting is still a soft wall of progression). I'm cool with all of that however, I understand not just giving things away and all that. But it's when all of that results in the player re-leveling the gear again that I start to wane.

The whole re-leveling thing feels so unnecessary to me right now, especially after having done it many times over these pass two years. I'd go so far as to call it an annoyance, a chore at this point. It's not satisfying to do, it takes time away from enjoying other areas of the game, and it feels outdated. I don't know what game, business, personal, or other reason could be to keep this re-leveling baggage, though I would like to hear it. But being able to use our Forma to Polarize and not have to re-level our gear again is what I'd like to see. 

Hydron 10 waves with booster, only one weapon equipped. Done.

[kebra]

I've passed so much time leveling, releveling and farming that I'm now too burned out to make what I enjoyed the most, long runs... and I'm not alone in that case.

Edited July 22, 2018 by kebra

[(PSN)FatMacBrbn]

7 hours ago, PoisonHD said:

It's a timewall to prevent you from instantly slapping 5 forma on something, nothing more. To me, it also feels a lot better to use the weapon after you've put the time in releveling it a bunch

But it being a time wall doesn't stop people from slapping all the forma they want into something. They do it anyway, which in turn detours them from enjoying other parts of the game as they have to keep farming forma AND releveling. And let's say it does stop a player from doing that, is that really the intended purpose? To steer players off from customizing frames as they like and some content requires? I've yet to see base gear than can handle sorties, so is the intention to keep players away from higher level content? This idea that it's about prevention doesn't add up.

I don't agree with your feeling of releveling a weapon a bunch. I can't say if I ever did, it was just something I did cause that's what the game required. I purchased boosters, used free boosters, played with Naramon passives, and all the other tricks I could find online to boost my efficiency. To get it done as soon as possible. I think a lot of people apply the same methods for the same reasons. Otherwise, they wouldn't take all the shorts they could to level up faster, or relevel in this case.

6 hours ago, HugintheCrow said:

Hydron 10 waves with booster, only one weapon equipped. Done.

There are many variables to Hydron. First, that's IF one has a booster. Second that's IF you have a team that understands how affinity works. Third, that's IF you can get people to stay for 10 waves. Fourth, there's the chance of the other team members.... not being proficient players that can even survive Hydrons 10 waves. Fifth, there's the "elites" that, understandably, leave when the Fourth variable occurs. In my experience it's a 1 out of 5 chance that at least one or all of the above hurdles won't occur. What you're suggesting is a perfect scenario where everything goes right. I've had those perfect runs myself in my play time. But while it's possible, it's not the norm in my experience. Also those 10 waves can easily be 30 or 40+ waves when changing more than one slot.

So again I ask, what's really the benefit of having us relevel after changing a polarity? I can't help but  wonder if it was a way to extend game play when the game was a lot more scarce with activities. Today we have a lot more to do, so is it really something that compliments the game at this point? 

Edited July 23, 2018 by (PS4)FatMacBrbn
additional info

[Kyenhael]

It's just another progression method. Just think of it as having to gain enough affinity so that your weapon levels up with each forma. Every 30 ranks with a forma is a new level that unlocks more capacity. It's not much different from grinding new levels in other games. If you want more power, you have to grind that xp.

It's much easier now that you always have at least as many capacity points as your MR. It was much less enjoyable before. Now you can at least you the weapon as you level. 

Also, in my opinion, many people feel like they need to potato and forma every weapon they get. There is nothing wrong with that mentality of course, but then you have to understand you will have to grind a lot more. I have been playing for several years and i would say probably less that a third of my weapons have been optimized with formas. 

As to the question of improving the game, well it's a progression grind. I don't think it detracts or adds anything more than any other progression system in its current stage. Therefore, I am not sure it needs to be changed. 

[StabbyTentacles]

2 hours ago, Avalean said:

As to the question of improving the game, well it's a progression grind. I don't think it detracts or adds anything more than any other progression system in its current stage. Therefore, I am not sure it needs to be changed. 

Well said. 😊

[HugintheCrow]

7 hours ago, (PS4)FatMacBrbn said:

There are many variables to Hydron.

You seem to have very bad luck when it comes to teammates. I extremely recently finished upgrading my whole arsenal there with no trouble whatsoever. All pugs, not clan or friends of course.

On the note of boosters, they are 40 plat. That's like 2 good rare prime parts or something.

[PoisonHD]

9 hours ago, (PS4)FatMacBrbn said:

But it being a time wall doesn't stop people from slapping all the forma they want into something. They do it anyway, which in turn detours them from enjoying other parts of the game as they have to keep farming forma AND releveling. And let's say it does stop a player from doing that, is that really the intended purpose? To steer players off from customizing frames as they like and some content requires? I've yet to see base gear than can handle sorties, so is the intention to keep players away from higher level content? This idea that it's about prevention doesn't add up.

I don't agree with your feeling of releveling a weapon a bunch. I can't say if I ever did, it was just something I did cause that's what the game required. I purchased boosters, used free boosters, played with Naramon passives, and all the other tricks I could find online to boost my efficiency. To get it done as soon as possible. I think a lot of people apply the same methods for the same reasons. Otherwise, they wouldn't take all the shorts they could to level up faster, or relevel in this case.

It's not to prevent you from putting forma on something, it's to prevent you from instantly putting that forma on. It's not to steer people away from customization, it's to put a time gate on that customization, and actually work to have endgame gear. For the second part, you still want to level it up quickly, but to me that releveling makes the weapon feel more worth using, like I put actual work into it instead of clicking a button 5 times and having 5 forma on the weapon.

[Cryptodream]

Hydron, Sedna.

[(XBOX)HorusAstartes01]

11 hours ago, (PS4)FatMacBrbn said:

But it being a time wall doesn't stop people from slapping all the forma they want into something. They do it anyway, which in turn detours them from enjoying other parts of the game as they have to keep farming forma AND releveling. And let's say it does stop a player from doing that, is that really the intended purpose? To steer players off from customizing frames as they like and some content requires? I've yet to see base gear than can handle sorties, so is the intention to keep players away from higher level content? This idea that it's about prevention doesn't add up.

I don't agree with your feeling of releveling a weapon a bunch. I can't say if I ever did, it was just something I did cause that's what the game required. I purchased boosters, used free boosters, played with Naramon passives, and all the other tricks I could find online to boost my efficiency. To get it done as soon as possible. I think a lot of people apply the same methods for the same reasons. Otherwise, they wouldn't take all the shorts they could to level up faster, or relevel in this case.

There are many variables to Hydron. First, that's IF one has a booster. Second that's IF you have a team that understands how affinity works. Third, that's IF you can get people to stay for 10 waves. Fourth, there's the chance of the other team members.... not being proficient players that can even survive Hydrons 10 waves. Fifth, there's the "elites" that, understandably, leave when the Fourth variable occurs. In my experience it's a 1 out of 5 chance that at least one or all of the above hurdles won't occur. What you're suggesting is a perfect scenario where everything goes right. I've had those perfect runs myself in my play time. But while it's possible, it's not the norm in my experience. Also those 10 waves can easily be 30 or 40+ waves when changing more than one slot.

So again I ask, what's really the benefit of having us relevel after changing a polarity? I can't help but  wonder if it was a way to extend game play when the game was a lot more scarce with activities. Today we have a lot more to do, so is it really something that compliments the game at this point? 

Ok get an equinox to sleep an exterminate 1 run huge affinty and done don't have to worry about all those variables just use naramon and/or boosters either way it's quicker 

[Hello]

I like the system personally. If you want to be stronger then you'll put the time into the weapon/frame to do so.

I'm a solo player, but 20 minutes of a dark sector (yes slower than with a group, but oh well) and I can max a melee weapon. Currently was a zaw. 20 minutes to level 30, gild it, another 20 minutes. Forma it, 20 minutes. I'm not losing much by doing it and I'm getting credits and resources at the same time with a chance of endo in the first 2 rotations.

If I had a ton of forma, I would put 100 forma into frames just to have it say 100 next to the name. 

This is actually one method of how things are done that I hope never changes or is made easier.

 

Edit: Just to add on to what sati44 said. If you have Limbo, you can run through Lua spy very quick. 4-5 minutes. You have go into the rift and run through. No alarms to trigger til the vault and you can't take damage. Pretty easy after the first couple runs.

Edited July 23, 2018 by Brandt1

[sati44]

Another option would be Saturn - Dione Spy mission. One of the fastest spy missions to speed run with 3280 affinity per vault.

With a stealth frame it takes max 8-15min (if you going just for the vaults or plat to kill all the mobs to) to finish. 2-3 runs with a booster to max a weapon.

Not the be all end all best option but it's an good alternative for solo players. And it's great for leveling all weapons not just melee.

 

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

20 hours ago, PoisonHD said:

It's a timewall to prevent you from instantly slapping 5 forma on something, nothing more. To me, it also feels a lot better to use the weapon after you've put the time in releveling it a bunch

Why not let players instantly slap 5 forma on, after re-leveling it once from the initial polarization? Does DE benefit from this in some way?

[(PSN)FatMacBrbn]

All these tips on releveling faster is further proof of how this mechanic is hindrance to the experience. If something is fun to do we look for ways to prolong it, not cut it short.

There is already a lot of effort that goes into making our ideal builds. I think maybe people are not seeing the big picture here. There's attaining the blue print, attaining the resources, crafting the gear, then leveling the gear, then attaining a potato. With the effort of attaining a forma which is essentially the same pattern. And then there's the RNG factor that can lengthening the process in some ways. And just about every step I mentioned either behind a time wall or it's own subjective grind. Players are already putting in the work and going through a time gate before the option of polarizing is even available. With all that considered releveling seems unnecessary for the game. And more tedious than most games I've played.

But it seems I'm out voted here. Personally, I'll be changing polarities a lot less from now on. Except for that new heavy katana, I might make an exception for that.

 

Edited July 23, 2018 by (PS4)FatMacBrbn

[MagPrime]

While I am not a fan of the current method, I do understand that it is designed ad a time wall to stagger progression and keep people playing more. 

I don't think the game would benefit from a total removal of this system, it would benefit from a few changes. 

Being able to pre-load our Forma and mods would be outstanding for players who enjoy long runs.  They could put in the Forma and mods they wanted for each interval and just have it unlocked as they play, removing the new to leave the mission and change mods or add another Forma. 

[PoisonHD]

2 hours ago, (XB1)Erudite God said:

Why not let players instantly slap 5 forma on, after re-leveling it once from the initial polarization? Does DE benefit from this in some way?

Yes, they sell more boosters in order to forma faster.

[DatDarkOne]

7 hours ago, MagPrime said:

While I am not a fan of the current method, I do understand that it is designed ad a time wall to stagger progression and keep people playing more. 

I don't think the game would benefit from a total removal of this system, it would benefit from a few changes. 

Being able to pre-load our Forma and mods would be outstanding for players who enjoy long runs.  They could put in the Forma and mods they wanted for each interval and just have it unlocked as they play, removing the new to leave the mission and change mods or add another Forma. 

This just gave me an idea.  Why not just forma mods instead?  I haven't thought out all of the problems or benefits just yet.  It just an ide at the moment.  😀 

[(XBOX)Oussii]

On 2018-07-23 at 2:12 AM, (PS4)FatMacBrbn said:

Polarizing our gear for mods is a good implementation and allows for some great customization of our gear. However, after taking a break from the game and now returning, I feel that re-leveling our gear back to max level 30 after changing the polarity hinders the players time in game. The initial process feels balanced enough already with having to get forma (a grind in itself), followed by having to gather forma resources (possibly more farming), then having to craft it (waiting is still a soft wall of progression). I'm cool with all of that however, I understand not just giving things away and all that. But it's when all of that results in the player re-leveling the gear again that I start to wane.

The whole re-leveling thing feels so unnecessary to me right now, especially after having done it many times over these pass two years. I'd go so far as to call it an annoyance, a chore at this point. It's not satisfying to do, it takes time away from enjoying other areas of the game, and it feels outdated. I don't know what game, business, personal, or other reason could be to keep this re-leveling baggage, though I would like to hear it. But being able to use our Forma to Polarize and not have to re-level our gear again is what I'd like to see. 

It takes only like 20 min, or 10 def waves to level up a frame or a weapon to level 30

That's not bad

[Gamma745]

14 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

This just gave me an idea.  Why not just forma mods instead?  I haven't thought out all of the problems or benefits just yet.  It just an ide at the moment.  😀 

Forma can only be applied on fully ranked mods, and revert it back to un-ranked. You will need to upgrade it again afterwards.

...

That's just going to shift the grind from affinity to Endo... and probably made it worse too.

[MagPrime]

3 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

This just gave me an idea.  Why not just forma mods instead?  I haven't thought out all of the problems or benefits just yet.  It just an ide at the moment.  😀 

Yes, this, give it to me. 

GIVE IT TO ME

[DreisterDino]

My "problem" with leveling is something totally different which many of you probablywont agree with.

I think its boring and "wrong" that you can level a weapon without even having to use it once.

 

Imo a better system would be that you actually have to get kills with the weapon to level it up, so r0 to r30 = 500 kills or so.

No passive affinity gain. I know you say now "Noooo that would take forever, and people are stealing kills and so on".

Thats right if you try to lvl exclusively on hydron or so.

 

But what could be the benefit of my system?

 

- you would go to different planets and missions while leveling, probably starting on low levels when there are no formas and progressing to higher-lvl-tiles.

- you would actually get to know the weapons a lot more because you actually use them

- you would actually play the game again instead of afk-ing on hydron or ESO, maybe go solo a few times

 

I know many of you want to do it fast and will disagree with me, but maybe you can see where i am coming from.

I think lvling would be the boring agony that it is now but could provide some fun again.

And btw, even with 500 kills to get to r30 i think it wouldnt take more time (one ESO for example you might kill that many enemies in 1-2 zones solo)

 

(i know this will not happen..)

Edited July 24, 2018 by DreisterDino

[(PSN)FatMacBrbn]

On 2018-07-23 at 10:40 PM, (XB1)Oussii said:

It takes only like 20 min, or 10 def waves to level up a frame or a weapon to level 30

That's not bad

As I said earlier, that is only if the right conditions are met.

I recently received an affinity booster as a log-in reward. Whatever I had planned to do in game was dropped so I could take advantage of those 3 hours. Luckily I had three forma to spare and so proceeded to Hydron. Two hours later I finally managed to reach max level. 30 of that spent on deciding what weapons were worth the effort and what had to wait, or get left behind. Every other scenario I mentioned where things could go wrong happened. Except for the one where knuckleheads wait to the last second to leave and then it's surviving solo to keep my gains. That happened to me as well, along with never getting past wave 10 with my squads, sometimes only wave 5. And now it seems a Melee 3.0 is upon us. It's gonna be interesting to see how/if this throws my melee builds off. Possibly having to once again re-forma our stuff for the builds we like.

I do like that polarizing mods idea, might be worth expanding on.

Edited August 2, 2018 by (PS4)FatMacBrbn