Nyx, The Puppetmaster Rework

[(PSN)VoidVox_]

An older concept that I had laying around, so may get updated, but figured I'd try to get feedback as is. The purpose of this rework is improve nyx's survivability and damage outputs while maintaining her crowd control capabilities and staying true to her theme. So much focus has been put on her ability to face-tank damage with absorb by the community and it has detracted from the fact that she is first and foremost a telepathic/telekinetic manipulator. She shouldn't be tanking damage. But I left absorb in there anyway, though with some changes to make it fit her theme better and improve her damage output.

v1.1
1) Psychic Bolts: Number of bolts scales with power strength. Enemies hit by Psychic Bolts are ragdolled for a short time, leaving them open to ground finishers. Enemies under effect of the bolts cannot detect Nyx or her allies, and will not raise an alarm upon recovering, making it a viable means of getting past units and avoiding a fight, could be useful to some extent for spy data vaults or as a "panic button" when being attacked.

2) Mind Control: Allow direct player control of the enemy, basically possessing it. While controlling an enemy, disable other abilities except mind control which can be used to switch between enemies. Nyx herself is "inside" the possessed enemy, protecting her from damage. Nyx takes damage if the enemy she is controlling dies with her still in control, so keeping an eye on your victim's health and jumping to a different enemy before death is encouraged. Energy drain over time. Each time you jump from one enemy to another without "exiting" increases the energy drain per second, similar to wukong's defy. Periodically do a fresh recast to keep cost low. 

3) Absorb: Nyx telekinetically lifts and holds an enemy in front of her, absorbing damage onto the enemy damaging it and building up an energy charge. Ending the ability will throw the charged enemy where you are aiming, dealing the absorbed damage in a burst. While holding the enemy, Nyx is able to walk with reduced speed though cannot use other powers. She can fire her guns, but with a 25% penalty to reload speed. Default range will have a smaller absorb bubble that still leaves her vulnerable to damage from the sides and rear, but with enough range mods, the absorb range can intercept fire from all around nyx.

4) Chaos: Unchanged

[Kyryo]

Leave absorb and this might be an interesting change.

Tho i'm pretty sure point 2 is a pain to program...

[Zahnny]

Personally Nyx has always been a bother to me, at least etymology wise. Her name literally means night and yet all her abilities are based around telepathy.

[peterc3]

29 minutes ago, (PS4)warhero229 said:

2) Mind Control: Allow direct player control of the enemy, basically possessing it. While controlling an enemy, disable other abilities except mind control which can be used to switch between enemies. Nyx herself is "inside" the possessed enemy, protecting her from damage. Nyx takes damage if the enemy she is controlling dies with her still in control, so keeping an eye on your victim's health and jumping to a different enemy before death is encouraged. Energy drain over time. Each time you jump from one enemy to another without "exiting" increases the energy drain per second, similar to wukong's defy. Periodically do a fresh recast to keep cost low. 

Enemies aren't designed to have players using them, they lack many animations and the polish needed to see them from that close.

Changes are more likely to happen if they don't need to have large portions of the rest of the game changed to make it work.

31 minutes ago, (PS4)warhero229 said:

the fact that she is first and foremost a telepathic/telekinetic manipulator

Where is this fact of yours stated by DE or the game?

[(PSN)VoidVox_]

1 hour ago, Kyryo said:

Tho i'm pretty sure point 2 is a pain to program...

 

1 hour ago, peterc3 said:

Enemies aren't designed to have players using them, they lack many animations and the polish needed to see them from that close.

Changes are more likely to happen if they don't need to have large portions of the rest of the game changed to make it work.

Where is this fact of yours stated by DE or the game?

It wouldn't be as big of a bother as you might think. None of the advanced movement or sprinting would be available. Only normal walking/running that we already see enemies doing. You'd be extremely limited in your mobility. No new attacks either. Control a butcher, you can do their basic swing attack. Control a heavy gunner, you're just firing a gorgon. Control an infested charger, you can do the basic little tackle melee. Most ranged enemy units are using guns that we already have in our own arsenals and most melee units only have 1-2 styles of attacking.

Obviously some unit types would need to be marked as "invalid targets" like, say, brood mothers or any kind of Sentient unit.

And this description of her is stated in the codex (pulled from wiki page):

CODEX

This is Nyx, manipulator of minds.

On her own or with a group, Nyx can turn the tide of battle in her favor.

—Lotus

Or, taken from arsenal screens currently in game:

Nyx:

Mind control and psychic attacks make Nyx a very dangerous foe. Her ability to reach into enemy consciousness and manipulate their behavior can turn the tide of battle

Nyx prime:

Infiltrate the minds of your enemies with Nyx Prime. Featuring altered mod polarities for greater customization.

 

Everything here talks about her ability to manipulate the enemy mentally. Nothing here says "shrugs off all damage by meditating"

Edited July 28, 2018 by (PS4)warhero229

[(PSN)VoidVox_]

1 hour ago, Zahnny said:

Personally Nyx has always been a bother to me, at least etymology wise. Her name literally means night and yet all her abilities are based around telepathy.

Definitely annoying, but too late to change now

[peterc3]

35 minutes ago, (PS4)warhero229 said:

You'd be extremely limited in your mobility. No new attacks either. Control a butcher, you can do their basic swing attack. Control a heavy gunner, you're just firing a gorgon. Control an infested charger, you can do the basic little tackle melee. Most ranged enemy units are using guns that we already have in our own arsenals and most melee units only have 1-2 styles of attacking.

Why is this something people would want to do? What about this would make people want to give up Parkour or any advanced movements?

37 minutes ago, (PS4)warhero229 said:

Obviously some unit types would need to be marked as "invalid targets" like, say, brood mothers or any kind of Sentient unit.

Furthering the point, if anything special is locked out and you are limited to "simple" units, where is the incentive to use it more often than current Mind Control or Psychic Bolts which you are switching with it?

2 hours ago, Zahnny said:

Personally Nyx has always been a bother to me, at least etymology wise. Her name literally means night and yet all her abilities are based around telepathy.

In looking at the etymology, you managed to overlook the ancient Greek pantheon? Does Frost bother you even though he clearly uses ice?

[(PSN)VoidVox_]

15 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

Why is this something people would want to do? What about this would make people want to give up Parkour or any advanced movements?

Furthering the point, if anything special is locked out and you are limited to "simple" units, where is the incentive to use it more often than current Mind Control or Psychic Bolts which you are switching with it?

In looking at the etymology, you managed to overlook the ancient Greek pantheon? Does Frost bother you even though he clearly uses ice?

Because you're gaining survival. While controlling an enemy, nyx herself cannot be damaged. You can traverse the battlefield by jumping between enemy hosts and not take any damage. Not only that, but you're not drawing aggro to yourself that will end up killing you as soon as the ability ends, unlike current absorb. 

[(PSN)VoidVox_]

Duplicate post

Edited July 29, 2018 by (PS4)warhero229
Duplicate post

[Kyryo]

13 hours ago, (PS4)warhero229 said:

It wouldn't be as big of a bother as you might think. None of the advanced movement or sprinting would be available. Only normal walking/running that we already see enemies doing. You'd be extremely limited in your mobility. No new attacks either. Control a butcher, you can do their basic swing attack. Control a heavy gunner, you're just firing a gorgon. Control an infested charger, you can do the basic little tackle melee. Most ranged enemy units are using guns that we already have in our own arsenals and most melee units only have 1-2 styles of attacking.

And that would be boring AF, i play warframe to kill hordes of enemies while doing impossibly awesome and complicated moves. if i wanted to play like a corpus crewman, i'd go play COD and his clones.

[Kyryo]

12 hours ago, (PS4)warhero229 said:

Because you're gaining survival. While controlling an enemy, nyx herself cannot be damaged.

The point of the game isn't surviving (which is extremely easy, considering that nyx has Assimilate, and a lot of other warframes have defensive abilities that protect allies too, and we have bulletjump.. and we have mesa...) but killing the enemy as fast as possible. That in normal gameplay.

For specific purposes, like extremely high survivals, special alerts and the such, there is team composition, and Nyx will hardly be picked over the other warframes, considering that we have monsters like Mesa, Saryn, Limbo, Rhino, Nova, Nidus and a lot more warframes that can protect allies, Control enemies, and deal absurd amounts of damage on a large scale. (Again looking at you, mesa...)

 

Edit: Oh, and don't forget that broken butt of Harrow and her sister Trinity !

Edited July 29, 2018 by Kyryo

[(PSN)VoidVox_]

2 hours ago, Kyryo said:

And that would be boring AF, i play warframe to kill hordes of enemies while doing impossibly awesome and complicated moves. if i wanted to play like a corpus crewman, i'd go play COD and his clones.

 

1 hour ago, Kyryo said:

The point of the game isn't surviving (which is extremely easy, considering that nyx has Assimilate, and a lot of other warframes have defensive abilities that protect allies too, and we have bulletjump.. and we have mesa...) but killing the enemy as fast as possible. That in normal gameplay.

For specific purposes, like extremely high survivals, special alerts and the such, there is team composition, and Nyx will hardly be picked over the other warframes, considering that we have monsters like Mesa, Saryn, Limbo, Rhino, Nova, Nidus and a lot more warframes that can protect allies, Control enemies, and deal absurd amounts of damage on a large scale. (Again looking at you, mesa...)

 

Edit: Oh, and don't forget that broken butt of Harrow and her sister Trinity !

You cant kill hordes of enemies if you're dead. Some people enjoy playing past sortie 3 level enemies for a challenge. And I honestly dont care what you play.

You're taking your own interest, namely short quick easy runs at high speed, and saying "good enough" when there is in fact a vast portion of the community that enjoys endurance runs on endless mission types because it provides a challenge. I know she has assimilate, and that is one of the things that this rework is attempting to fix. Face-tanking damage does not fit her theme in any way. This rework shifts her survivability away from face-tanking and over to using mind control and telekinesis to protect herself with enemy meat shields. 

The argument that "well we have these other frames that are meta, the rest don't matter" is absurd and short-sighted. I mean you even included Saryn and Limbo, who would be nowhere near the "monster" level that they are now if people had been satisfied to leave them behind in favor of whatever frames were the established "this is who you're supposed to play" frames.

If DE just created a handful of "endgame" frames and never updated anything to change that line-up, this would become an exceptionally boring game and it would be pointless to even have any other frames.

[(PSN)NnCrusader3]

1. I like it

2. Interesting... I’m not sure I like it. Takes you away from the game and I don’t feel like it’s very interactive. I feel like her mind control ability should be the same as it is now, but with her augment built in. You control an enemy and they fight for you but they output 500% damage

3. I like it. It’s basically Octavia’s mallet but gives invincibility. I think the movement speed penalty should be pretty severe, like 25%. But then nyx can’t use it unless an enemy is around. Anyways I like the concept! Also definitely keep the radial knockdown and give that a good range cause I like that

4. Chaos is just simply one of the best cc abilities in the game

[Kyryo]

55 minutes ago, (PS4)warhero229 said:

You cant kill hordes of enemies if you're dead. Some people enjoy playing past sortie 3 level enemies for a challenge. And I honestly dont care what you play.

You're taking your own interest, namely short quick easy runs at high speed, and saying "good enough" when there is in fact a vast portion of the community that enjoys endurance runs on endless mission types because it provides a challenge. I know she has assimilate, and that is one of the things that this rework is attempting to fix. Face-tanking damage does not fit her theme in any way. This rework shifts her survivability away from face-tanking and over to using mind control and telekinesis to protect herself with enemy meat shields. 

The argument that "well we have these other frames that are meta, the rest don't matter" is absurd and short-sighted. I mean you even included Saryn and Limbo, who would be nowhere near the "monster" level that they are now if people had been satisfied to leave them behind in favor of whatever frames were the established "this is who you're supposed to play" frames.

If DE just created a handful of "endgame" frames and never updated anything to change that line-up, this would become an exceptionally boring game and it would be pointless to even have any other frames.

Now i see that you have just planted roots on your point. My time here is wasted.

 

We were not talking about meta nor anything, we were talking about the inability and the "not usefulness"  of taking direct control of enemies, the fact that nyx would become immortal is redundant as she already can, making her an Awesome position-tank with decent CC, and is not the reason why we should do that. because as we said, by the time you enter an enemy, the nuker would have already kill it. And don't talk to me about "You can't kill hordes if you are dead" when we clearly have seen that with the right modding enemies can't even come close to us. (Again, mesa, saryn etc etc Even excalibroken with an unranked Life Strike can sustain the damage of 20 Corrupted heavy gunner for a while) And don't forget that we have advanced mobility to avoid most of the enemy threats.

Also, you said

57 minutes ago, (PS4)warhero229 said:

Some people enjoy playing past sortie 3 level enemies for a challenge.

and again, when we have a frame that is immortal and can DESTROY corrupted heavy gunners up to 140 (as i can't simulate them higher and i don't bother of going past 1h on survivals if not for specific reasons), slowing down to control a single enemy (that would even be useless as the enemy do not deal that much damage each other, as they are calibrated to kill warframes that have a max EP of around 5k inaros exluded, while enemies are calibrated to substain stream of damage in order of the 10-20k per second) is pretty much useless.

The rest of your nyx change suggestions are good and i like them, don't plant root on a single idea just because we said and proven that is not good. Ok?  Cheer up, is not like DE will actually look at this post and do something, even if they do changes, they will not do SUCH changes. At max, i expect the removal of the Bolts for something else and some number tweaks.

 

With that, my time here has come to an end, hope to have clarified.

Bye.