Removing conclave isn't the answer.

[StrikerTheHedgefox]

I see a lot of people suggesting to just remove conclave. This isn't the answer. It has the potential to be good, but most of the suggestions to improve it so far haven't been great. The PvP 2.0 rework was a step in the right direction, but some further things should be done, rather. Also, there's no rush for this, I understand resources are better put elsewhere right now, especially with Fortuna and Railjack on the way, but these may be some good things to try down the road when the time and resources are available.

• Leave parkour as it is. It's fast, but there's no need for parkour 1.0. Maybe bring back stamina at most, but even that could be a bit iffy. I'm all for fast-paced action, I was forged in the likes of Doom and UT(Another game DE was involved in, btw).
• Improve hit detection and hit feedback, as current hit feedback in conclave is very poor (especially for melee, I never know when I'm actually hitting someone in PvP aside from damage numbers. Audio/visual feedback for it is poor.), and maybe scale the head and torso hitboxes up slightly for conclave specifically. A lot of fast-paced arena shooters have particularly large hitboxes for a reason to compensate for the insane speed. See: Unreal Tournament.
• Improve visual clarity, make it easier to see other players, either with rim-lighting or a highlight. Right now, players can blend in too easily especially in the dark grineer conclave maps. (EDIT: People keep mentioning a red highlight, but I don't see this. Is it an option, or is my game bugged?)
• Make all warframes move the same speed, and have the same health/shields/armor. Give the warframes tweaked/balanced or maybe even totally different abilities specific to conclave, to avoid a lot of broken BS and help give players an even ground.
• Balance the weapons to have a similar DPS/Time to kill specific to conclave (within reason), and make TTK fairly quick while still giving time to react to things going on.
• Make shields/health treat all the base damage types the same way (to avoid certain weapons being useless because they cannot get through shields), and have no status procs (RNG has no place in PvP, plus some statuses would be absolutely insane in PvP).
• Possibly try out a mode or overall change where instead of being able to bring in any weapon, there's a balanced, always-available pool for conclave, and players can pick from a number of them for their default loadout, but other weapons (along with a few power weapons) are placed on the map in strategic locations that can be picked up/swapped by holding the use key, adding that nice element of map control like a traditional arena shooter.
• Remove having to collect oro in 1vAll and Team DM, and make it based on kills. Put the oro collection in a separate mode. Oro collection makes long-range less viable... not fun.
• Make it easier to get conclave mods in the PvE modes, right now it's pretty difficult to get a good starting group of conclave mods. Perhaps add more conclave mod drops in Rathuum/The Index, and have Teshin allow you to pick a mod or two for free before charging standing.
• Give players some good incentive to play PvP for some items they can carry back into PvE. (Like mods, glyphs/emblems, blueprints)
• A server browser. Warframe PvP already has dedicated servers, with plenty of configuration (like tickrate)... but no way to browse for them currently. This would help a ton.

Anyhow, I may add to this later or make adjustments as things are thought through more deeply.

Make sure to read it fully and comprehend it before responding. Also, please, for all that is good and holy, keep the sarcastic replies, rants about PvP toxicity(that's been stated a million times, we know, and it sucks. I'm all for a respectful PvP environment), and "Warframe is a PvE game" parroting to an absolute minimum (preferably zero). I know Warframe is primarily a PvE game, but that doesn't mean PvP cannot work, it just needs to be done right, and so far it hasn't.

Edited July 29, 2018 by StrikerTheHedgefox

[Asdryu]

Adding a list of servers to browse or some filters would be a huge start to me to be honest... Ever since dedicated servers were added I lost a lot of interest when I thought it would've been the opposite.

If there's an algorithm to prioritize low latency and high activity it must be as bad as the search function in our arsenal or our most used stuff in our profiles.

[StrikerTheHedgefox]

Just now, Asdryu said:

Adding a list of servers to browse or some filters would be a huge start to me to be honest... Ever since dedicated servers were added I lost a lot of interest when I thought it would've been the opposite.

If there's an algorithm to prioritize low latency and high activity it must be as bad as the search function in our arsenal or our most used stuff in our profiles.

Yes, this is also a great idea. There are dedicated servers, but there's no way to pick them. There's high-tickrate servers that are actually pleasant to play on, but no way to seek them out. Good idea, adding it to the list. These are the kind of replies I like to see.

[(PSN)drollive96]

DE has already done this to some extent, all the weapons in conclave do have differents stats, as far as i know at least, I just wish u could have more mods in conclave thats the real problem , part of what makes pve so fun is the endless possibilitys that mods allow , if DE came out with more mods specifically for conclave that would definitely get me playing it

[StrikerTheHedgefox]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)drollive96 said:

DE has already done this to some extent, all the weapons in conclave do have differents stats, as far as i know at least, I just wish u could have more mods in conclave thats the real problem , part of what makes pve so fun is the endless possibilitys that mods allow , if DE came out with more mods specifically for conclave that would definitely get me playing it

Yeah, that would be nice.

[Triplinster]

4 hours ago, StrikerTheHedgefox said:

Balance the weapons to have a similar DPS/Time to kill specific to conclave (within reason), and make TTK fairly quick while still giving time to react to things going on.

Aside from few weapons (which are deemed broken by players so I'm ignoring em). Most weapons are balanced pretty well in TTK. Little bit more power to low hits to kill weapons, but over all balanced. I say reduce the insane spread we got on automatic rifles, to bring them on a similar level as low hits to kill weapons.

4 hours ago, StrikerTheHedgefox said:

Make shields/health treat all the base damage types the same way (to avoid certain weapons being useless because they cannot get through shields), and have no status procs (RNG has no place in PvP, plus some statuses would be absolutely insane in PvP).

You're talking about a overhaul of damage system in conclave. I have to disagree there. 

Current implementation of damage (Puncture for Health/Armor, Impact for Shield, Slash for Neutral or in rarer cases Elemental for one of the extremes) works just fine in conclave.

"to avoid certain weapons being useless because they cannot get through shields"? If a puncture heavy weapon is bad against shields, it definitely doesn't mean it's useless. It's much more effective against health/armor.

Also, weapons don't proc status in PvP like in PvE. If they do, they proc it 100% of the time like Lanka, ninkondi and etc. And are balanced with the proc in mind.

4 hours ago, StrikerTheHedgefox said:

Make all warframes move the same speed, and have the same health/shields/armor. 

Current EHP vs Mobility implementation fits the Warframes. As we have "Tank" frames like Frost, Rhino and "Squishy" frames like Loki and Volt. It creates more diversity in game play.

Like high EHP tank vs squishy high mobility frame. EHP gain/loss vs Mobility gain/loss of some Warframes however might need balancing.

 

4 hours ago, StrikerTheHedgefox said:

Give the warframes tweaked/balanced or maybe even totally different abilities specific to conclave, to avoid a lot of broken BS and help give players an even ground.

Most abilities are well shaped in PvP. But balance wise CC/Damage on some of them is too high, which can be easily fixed.
 

4 hours ago, StrikerTheHedgefox said:

Give players some good incentive to play PvP for some items they can carry back into PvE. (Like mods, glyphs/emblems, blueprints)

I'd stay away from adding any PvP reward that has gameplay value in PvE. Cosmetic stuff like glyphs/emblems or whatever are fine, but blueprints/mods or anything with gameplay value not so much. Because then it would seem like PvE content is being locked behind PvP. Which the playerbase doesn't like.

I agree with most of your other points.

Edited July 29, 2018 by Triplinster

[SevenLetterKWord]

20 hours ago, StrikerTheHedgefox said:

• Improve hit detection and hit feedback, as current hit feedback in conclave is very poor (especially for melee, I never know when I'm actually hitting someone in PvP), and maybe scale the head and torso hitboxes up slightly for conclave specifically. A lot of fast-paced arena shooters have particularly large hitboxes for a reason to compensate for the insane speed. See: Unreal Tournament.

Hit detection is fine.
Every frame has the same hitboxes, and the hitboxes are reliable, although they may seem slightly off due to visual differences between frames, especially with certain skins.
(But what are you gonna do, disable cosmetics? )

Hit feedback is fine.
You've got the damage numbers popping out, and you've got the reticle flashing yellow/red when you deal damage to an enemy.
When you hit someone with melee, they flash red, sparks fly out, and there's a metallic clash sound played. What else do you need?

20 hours ago, StrikerTheHedgefox said:

• Improve visual clarity, make it easier to see other players, either with rim-lighting or a highlight. Right now, players can blend in too easily especially in the dark grineer conclave maps.

Are you kidding me?
Players are already coated with a red highlight so thick that it impedes differentiating between players. At a glance, everyone is just bright red.
Frankly I think the red coloration should be reduced back to its previous iteration, where it was sufficiently bright to prevent black-coloration stealth but also sufficiently transparent to allow easy identification of players and frames.

20 hours ago, StrikerTheHedgefox said:

• Make all warframes move the same speed, and have the same health/shields/armor. Give the warframes tweaked/balanced or maybe even totally different abilities specific to conclave, to avoid a lot of broken BS and help give players an even ground.

Unnecessary. EHP balancing overall is done quite well.
The only exceptions are a handful of underperforming frames (Hydroid deserves medium mobility) and the inexplicable EHP superiority of certain prime (or Umbra) frames.

Warframe abilities are already tweaked for Conclave.
If you have specific comments about particular abilities, it would be far more productive to call those out in a dedicated thread, instead of implying that all abilities are broken.

20 hours ago, StrikerTheHedgefox said:

• Balance the weapons to have a similar DPS/Time to kill specific to conclave (within reason), and make TTK fairly quick while still giving time to react to things going on.
• Make shields/health treat all the base damage types the same way (to avoid certain weapons being useless because they cannot get through shields), and have no status procs (RNG has no place in PvP, plus some statuses would be absolutely insane in PvP).

 

Ah, yes. Now it's clear.

I was wondering why you were complaining about so many things that were already the way you wanted them.

It turns out you have basically no idea how Conclave works. This is two matches of experience, twenty minutes at most.

20 hours ago, StrikerTheHedgefox said:

• Make it easier to get conclave mods in the PvE modes, right now it's pretty difficult to get a good starting group of conclave mods. Perhaps add more conclave mod drops in Rathuum/The Index, and have Teshin allow you to pick a mod or two for free before charging standing.
• Give players some good incentive to play PvP for some items they can carry back into PvE. (Like mods, glyphs/emblems, blueprints)

Nonsense.
PvE should give PvE rewards, Conclave should give Conclave rewards.

It's impossible to expand the Conclave arsenal without playing through the grind-/time-/pay-walls in PvE, but the solution to that problem is not to introduce PvP-walls to content in PvE.

[(PSN)lokaspoka]

21 hours ago, StrikerTheHedgefox said:

 

• Leave parkour as it is. It's fast, but there's no need for parkour 1.0. Maybe bring back stamina at most
• Improve visual clarity, make it easier to see other players, either with rim-lighting or a highlight. Right now, players can blend in too easily especially in the dark grineer conclave maps.

New features to Warframes

i mentioned to add features of Wall hugs like most 3d person shooters use and climbing to shooting and melee and air melee strikes

Melee weapon lock on and stamina system and flinching

the stamina system should be used for melee weps to avoid the spams , the stamina will act like ammo reload to a gun but a melee version for melee weapons. add a lock on feature and flinching

the range of the melee weps need to be reduced and speed to stop unfair advantage over a gun

Warframe mobility distance reduction and speed reduction

the speed is the issue the bullet jumping bullet rolling,air glide,sprinting  need their distances of 5 metres reduced to 50cm and speed from2.00 to 0.500. these Used often for easy escapes in conclave when being fired at

Maps Designs

dark areas are important in maps because the snipers need to cover their locations

larger maps with covers boxes,pillars,pipes,roof vents,underground passages

Red marker No camera focus to Enemy Killer No

the red highlights need to disappear and the camera focus on enemy player that killed u.so their position is not exposed.

(good for especially in 1vs All)

 

snipers kill with 1 head shot and shot guns  range reduced to far away targets PVP

shotgun needs to be effective close quarters not like arca which is long range cannon

a sniper should kill with 1 head shot

Warframe ability

Option to Nullify all warframe abilities except invisibility and shadow clones 

 

Edited July 29, 2018 by (PS4)lokaspoka

[StrikerTheHedgefox]

2 hours ago, SevenLetterKWord said:

Hit detection is fine.
Every frame has the same hitboxes, and the hitboxes are reliable, although they may seem slightly off due to visual differences between frames, especially with certain skins.
(But what are you gonna do, disable cosmetics? )

Hit feedback is fine.
You've got the damage numbers popping out, and you've got the reticle flashing yellow/red when you deal damage to an enemy.
When you hit someone with melee, they flash red, sparks fly out, and there's a metallic clash sound played. What else do you need?

Are you kidding me?
Players are already coated with a red highlight so thick that it impedes differentiating between players. At a glance, everyone is just bright red.
Frankly I think the red coloration should be reduced back to its previous iteration, where it was sufficiently bright to prevent black-coloration stealth but also sufficiently transparent to allow easy identification of players and frames.

Unnecessary. EHP balancing overall is done quite well.
The only exceptions are a handful of underperforming frames (Hydroid deserves medium mobility) and the inexplicable EHP superiority of certain prime (or Umbra) frames.

Warframe abilities are already tweaked for Conclave.
If you have specific comments about particular abilities, it would be far more productive to call those out in a dedicated thread, instead of implying that all abilities are broken.

Ah, yes. Now it's clear.

I was wondering why you were complaining about so many things that were already the way you wanted them.

It turns out you have basically no idea how Conclave works. This is two matches of experience, twenty minutes at most.

Nonsense.
PvE should give PvE rewards, Conclave should give Conclave rewards.

It's impossible to expand the Conclave arsenal without playing through the grind-/time-/pay-walls in PvE, but the solution to that problem is not to introduce PvP-walls to content in PvE.

No need to be a $&*^. My playtime is short, because right now it's simply not that fun to play, however, it's much more than 2 matches. Also, what red highlight? I've yet to see this red highlight. Maybe there's some bug causing it not to render for me, perhaps? Is it an option? This is where my suggestion for rim-lighting comes from, because literally, I've never seen this red highlight people are speaking of. Also, when it comes to the hit registration, I've had many instances where a perfect headshot did #*!% all, feels as if the hitboxes don't always line up with the animation, regardless of cosmetics.

Last time I played, with Melee, aside from the usual metallic sparks that you get from hitting a wall, and the damage numbers (which were usually pathetic, even with something like a Nikana Prime), there wasn't any sound of slashing of flesh, nor any blood from the impact. In short, it's not satisfying, at all. Just feels like I'm swinging at air.

If you want a specific example of a broken ability? The most recent case I've come across is Volt's electric shields. Last match I had, someone kept spamming them all around themselves in a corner every time they got into an engagement, blocking all shots, and using the damage buff for shooting through them to one-shot players. It was beyond infuriating. Also, never once did I imply that ALL abilities were broken, there's just a fair number of them.

Also, my kill count is so low, because right now it seems conclave is a meta-hump-fest, about what arsenal and frame you pick, rather than skill with movement, aim, and strategy, and of course, I haven't found something yet that is particularly effective (that I also enjoy using). Death count is also low despite playing a fair number of matches, because I tend to avoid direct combat unless I need to. I tend to favor long-range weaponry. Doesn't help that the damage seems so poor for a good majority of the weapons I've tried so far.

If you have any recommendations for weapons, I'm all ears (or eyes, rather), but it sucks that I have to resort to a specific meta to be effective. Meta$&*#^%ry is really annoying in general, the average player isn't a human calculator, they just want fast-paced PvP combat, they want to shoot things, not read an ancient tome of the damned, followed by a bunch of charts, and do math just to find out the only thing that works, and be forced into a specific playstyle. They don't care about EHP, or ASS, or FUK, PIS, SHT, FGASFDF, and SDASDJNKGDSNF, or whatever other crap. Keep it simple.

But of course, you're just going to pick on those particular things, and my profile, and not even pay attention to any of the other things proposed, or the point behind them. Typical, I see that S#&$ all to much on this forum, and frankly it's infuriating.

No matter how you look at it, Conclave isn't fun right now. That's why so few people play it save for those who basically no-life it. It's not because people hate PvP, or PvP can't be fun in Warframe, I'm all for a good PvP in this game. It's just not well designed, nor satisfying, and just kind of limp overall currently. Something needs to be done, but it shouldn't be thrown out.

Edited July 29, 2018 by StrikerTheHedgefox

[Loxyen]

On 2018-07-29 at 1:15 AM, StrikerTheHedgefox said:

I see a lot of people suggesting to just remove conclave. This isn't the answer. It has the potential to be good, but most of the suggestions to improve it so far haven't been great. The PvP 2.0 rework was a step in the right direction, but some further things should be done, rather. Also, there's no rush for this, I understand resources are better put elsewhere right now, especially with Fortuna and Railjack on the way, but these may be some good things to try down the road when the time and resources are available.

• Leave parkour as it is. It's fast, but there's no need for parkour 1.0. Maybe bring back stamina at most, but even that could be a bit iffy. I'm all for fast-paced action, I was forged in the likes of Doom and UT(Another game DE was involved in, btw).
• Improve hit detection and hit feedback, as current hit feedback in conclave is very poor (especially for melee, I never know when I'm actually hitting someone in PvP aside from damage numbers. Audio/visual feedback for it is poor.), and maybe scale the head and torso hitboxes up slightly for conclave specifically. A lot of fast-paced arena shooters have particularly large hitboxes for a reason to compensate for the insane speed. See: Unreal Tournament.
• Improve visual clarity, make it easier to see other players, either with rim-lighting or a highlight. Right now, players can blend in too easily especially in the dark grineer conclave maps. (EDIT: People keep mentioning a red highlight, but I don't see this. Is it an option, or is my game bugged?)
• Make all warframes move the same speed, and have the same health/shields/armor. Give the warframes tweaked/balanced or maybe even totally different abilities specific to conclave, to avoid a lot of broken BS and help give players an even ground.
• Balance the weapons to have a similar DPS/Time to kill specific to conclave (within reason), and make TTK fairly quick while still giving time to react to things going on.
• Make shields/health treat all the base damage types the same way (to avoid certain weapons being useless because they cannot get through shields), and have no status procs (RNG has no place in PvP, plus some statuses would be absolutely insane in PvP).
• Possibly try out a mode or overall change where instead of being able to bring in any weapon, there's a balanced, always-available pool for conclave, and players can pick from a number of them for their default loadout, but other weapons (along with a few power weapons) are placed on the map in strategic locations that can be picked up/swapped by holding the use key, adding that nice element of map control like a traditional arena shooter.
• Remove having to collect oro in 1vAll and Team DM, and make it based on kills. Put the oro collection in a separate mode.
• Make it easier to get conclave mods in the PvE modes, right now it's pretty difficult to get a good starting group of conclave mods. Perhaps add more conclave mod drops in Rathuum/The Index, and have Teshin allow you to pick a mod or two for free before charging standing.
• Give players some good incentive to play PvP for some items they can carry back into PvE. (Like mods, glyphs/emblems, blueprints)
• A server browser. Warframe PvP already has dedicated servers, with plenty of configuration (like tickrate)... but no way to browse for them currently. This would help a ton.

Anyhow, I may add to this later or make adjustments as things are thought through more deeply.

Make sure to read it fully and comprehend it before responding. Also, please, for all that is good and holy, keep the sarcastic replies, rants about PvP toxicity(that's been stated a million times, we know, and it sucks. I'm all for a respectful PvP environment), and "Warframe is a PvE game" parroting to an absolute minimum (preferably zero). I know Warframe is primarily a PvE game, but that doesn't mean PvP cannot work, it just needs to be done right, and so far it hasn't.

Almost every point of that got already proposed since 2.0 went live to now. A few already got implemented (somehow). A lot of them got ignored or just not implemented by DE.

 

Edit:

Also thats the red highlight.

Spoiler

 

And about the hitbox... nah I'd rather like to hit what I can see instead of doing ghost hits. (which also happens while playing against toasters or under bad hosts) That said a lot of cosmetics can cause confusion when it gets to close misses because they do not count as part of the damageable body. Not even the typical mmo female armor chest piece:

Spoiler

 

 

Edited July 29, 2018 by Loxyen

[StrikerTheHedgefox]

Yeah, I'm not getting that highlight for some reason. Wierd.

[Netoberg]

Conclave is missing a real good game mode. All the current game modes are kind bad and do not bring any player attention to it...

Maybe implementing something more towards a moba direction, doing waves of enemies both sides and some stuff like that (cuz obviouly lunaro rocket league) didnt work...

The fast pace of warframe makes it kinda hard to balance pvp, maybe adding some objetives and decreasing the pace (by alot) would make it better.

Theres also the new survival game mode (pug/fortnite) which with a few twiks could work out...

Its hard to implement a good PVP mod cuz warframe isnt the type of game made for that purpose in the first place... Its like trying to do a PVP for Diablo or Path of Exile, its a hard task and probably not the right direction... Maybe ponting into raids/invasions/clan wars wold make a lot more sense cuz lets be real, warframe PVP is dead since its release... Raids had a much better player pool than conclave and still got removed.

Let the flame begin, rofl

Cya

Edited August 3, 2018 by Netoberg

[MysticDragonMage]

On 2018-07-28 at 7:15 PM, StrikerTheHedgefox said:

Make all warframes move the same speed, and have the same health/shields/armor. Give the warframes tweaked/balanced or maybe even totally different abilities specific to conclave, to avoid a lot of broken BS and help give players an even ground.

 

On 2018-07-28 at 7:15 PM, StrikerTheHedgefox said:

Make shields/health treat all the base damage types the same way (to avoid certain weapons being useless because they cannot get through shields), and have no status procs (RNG has no place in PvP, plus some statuses would be absolutely insane in PvP).

i agree with mostly everything, especially these. let the abilities of the warframes be the only thing that effects aspects such as armor or mobility. rhino can still be a tank choice with his abilities alone, not just his stats.

also (if i may add), and i know warframe is all about gathering resources, but i think it is necessary for conclave to take gathering and using energy in a different way that doesn't reflect with the base game. too many times have i seen players hog all of the energy drops (both on my team and the opposite). maybe introduce cooldowns instead. the same argument could also apply for health drops, but energy stands out more as in issue.

[Alexander_Krost]

On 2018-07-29 at 1:09 PM, SevenLetterKWord said:

Hit detection is fine.
Every frame has the same hitboxes, and the hitboxes are reliable, although they may seem slightly off due to visual differences between frames, especially with certain skins.
(But what are you gonna do, disable cosmetics? )

Hit feedback is fine.
You've got the damage numbers popping out, and you've got the reticle flashing yellow/red when you deal damage to an enemy.
When you hit someone with melee, they flash red, sparks fly out, and there's a metallic clash sound played. What else do you need?

Are you kidding me?
Players are already coated with a red highlight so thick that it impedes differentiating between players. At a glance, everyone is just bright red.
Frankly I think the red coloration should be reduced back to its previous iteration, where it was sufficiently bright to prevent black-coloration stealth but also sufficiently transparent to allow easy identification of players and frames.

Unnecessary. EHP balancing overall is done quite well.
The only exceptions are a handful of underperforming frames (Hydroid deserves medium mobility) and the inexplicable EHP superiority of certain prime (or Umbra) frames.

Warframe abilities are already tweaked for Conclave.
If you have specific comments about particular abilities, it would be far more productive to call those out in a dedicated thread, instead of implying that all abilities are broken.

 

Ah, yes. Now it's clear.

I was wondering why you were complaining about so many things that were already the way you wanted them.

It turns out you have basically no idea how Conclave works. This is two matches of experience, twenty minutes at most.

Nonsense.
PvE should give PvE rewards, Conclave should give Conclave rewards.

It's impossible to expand the Conclave arsenal without playing through the grind-/time-/pay-walls in PvE, but the solution to that problem is not to introduce PvP-walls to content in PvE.

Right, looking at that, with what Striker said, he has the right to criticize modes he thinks should be changed based on what he experienced. Do I agree with the ideas he made? Some, sure (the biggest one is the Stamina for Conclave, for which Parkour in my experiences is a must if one is to live, and one would die if you stood still for longer than two seconds). But there's some I dont agree with, like rounding down health and shields to the same number. Weapons and Warframes are tweaked already to try to make it more fair though. There is even some mods intertwined between certain enemies that are rewarded as "Universal", that can be used in either setting (PvE, Conclave).

 

His criticism though in the end is his. I agree with some, the rest not so much. But I'm not about to say I'm an expert on the field, but opinion doesn't require a KD Ration of 10:1.

[TrinXT]

On 2018-07-29 at 12:15 AM, StrikerTheHedgefox said:

IMake it easier to get conclave mods in the PvE modes, right now it's pretty difficult to get a good starting group of conclave mods. Perhaps add more conclave mod drops in Rathuum/The Index, and have Teshin allow you to pick a mod or two for free before charging standing.

imo they should just give all Conclave mods to all players immediately except for the universal ones that can be used in PvE. Relying on rng just so that I can be on the same power level as other players in a game mode that I don't care for just makes me not want to bother with it to begin with.

[Aennonymus]

I'd just want a fair match. I'm new to conclave and I suck MAJORLY, and I'm sure there are more ppl who are on my skill lvl then the gods I go up against. Imho I think tht parkour needs to be tuned waaaaay tf down. Ppl jumping here and there makes things frustrating cuz I can't hit a conclave Vet flying around at light speed. Or at least give us more friggin standing when we lose cuz I dont wanna sit there and waste hours feeling like the trashiest player in warframe. After all we're just there for cosmetics.

[Leoffta]

conclave? what is conclave? I never find a match in this mode...

[ant99999]

В 15.09.2018 в 10:11, Aennonymus сказал:

I'd just want a fair match. I'm new to conclave and I suck MAJORLY, and I'm sure there are more ppl who are on my skill lvl then the gods I go up against. Imho I think tht parkour needs to be tuned waaaaay tf down. Ppl jumping here and there makes things frustrating cuz I can't hit a conclave Vet flying around at light speed. Or at least give us more friggin standing when we lose cuz I dont wanna sit there and waste hours feeling like the trashiest player in warframe. After all we're just there for cosmetics.

This terrible skill gap (I understand you so much) happens due to extremely low player population in Conclave. And the population is low because of lack of skill based matchmaking (or some alternative). And this causes even lower player count. Unfortunately, it is a vicious circle, which the Conclave team missed in the beginning, and now PvP suffers from it. You are not the only one being stomped by skilled players. On the other hand this can greatly improve your skill. So either get over it and improve or forget about PvP, as this isn't going to change anytime soon.

[(PSN)ifihateyou]

Wow. No need to expose the OP’s KD. But if that’s the case, I have 11k or so kills with less than half the deaths, so I guess you people would value what I have to say more (??? your logic, not mine).

 Now a lot of these changes aren’t necessary. Literally just a few weapon buffs to primaries and secondaries (not all of them), and a few nerfs to melee with really long range. Bladed Whip weapons are grossly op and spammable by people who's cerebral palsy prevents them from aiming, but regular whips (Scolic, Atterax, etc) are long range done right. Those are nowhere near as spammable and probably make the spin attack as effective as it can be in the mode. Also a few and I mean a FEW Warframe abilities Should be nerfed. The rest are either fine the way they are, or in need of a buff/rework (not going into specifics).

 Everything else that was listed (changes to mobility or whatever tf y’all were talking about) are all terrible ideas that would turn Conclave into Frame Fighter with guns. And about the mods, anybody who’s good enough knows that no mods are really necessary, which sets conclave apart from PvE (There are probably like 3 exceptions in PvP where mods make a difference in your build but i wont tell my secrets 🤪). 

There’s an actual skill level and not just having all the damage mods so you can sit there with Banshee or whatever y’all do. 

I do agree with removing Oro from FFA tho, as sniping will lead to you getting your Oro finessed by those palsy Mios guys 👌🏽

Edited October 6, 2018 by (PS4)BEN_drowned__
Ya momma

[Xarteros]

There are currently 187 weapons in Conclave that DE are balancing as-they-go. I feel like one of the easiest things to do (I've suggested in another thread) is to limit the selection to ~30 Tenno weapons of different types/classes (Baza for SMG, Soma for LMG, Braton and Burston for assault rifles, Tigris and Corinth for shotguns, various different melee weapon types etc).

DE wouldn't need to worry about trying to rebalance every single weapon that they come out with, all so it fits in the Conclave without being too broken (which most of the newer additions seem to start out broken anyway). Less work for DE, they can more intimately fine-tune the weapons they have.

I'd also suggest removing powers altogether, or having basic, iconic powers drop like pickups throughout the matches. Same deal, it would give DE a much smaller pool of abilities to have to balance, and overall would make the game more balanced and fair.

Ultimately, I look at Lunaro as the only good mode of Conclave at the moment, since it's entirely a matter of skill to win or lose. I feel like if the other game modes followed suit, players who sit at the top of the Conclave scoreboards would actually be the best, not just the ones who found the best exploits/OP equipment or abilities that were hardest to counter.

[Teridax68]

9 hours ago, Xarteros said:

Ultimately, I look at Lunaro as the only good mode of Conclave at the moment, since it's entirely a matter of skill to win or lose. I feel like if the other game modes followed suit, players who sit at the top of the Conclave scoreboards would actually be the best, not just the ones who found the best exploits/OP equipment or abilities that were hardest to counter.

I have to agree with this: Lunaro has some problems, but it's also a mode where all players are put on a perfectly level playing field, without players getting any advantage from previously accrued weapons, frames or mods. It's still not a popular mode, because it's often laggy as hell, and one has to go to the Conclave interface to find it, but it's at least a mode that is easy to balance.

By contrast, one of the biggest issues with the rest of Conclave, aside from its design failing to appeal to most players, is that the demands it imposes upon balance simply do not match up to the effort DE is willing or able to put into it, particularly with so little overall player interest to justify said work. It's already difficult to take weapons and frames that were clearly not designed with Conclave in mind, and adapt them into a PvP game mode, but to make a roster of now dozens of frames and dozens of weapons balanced, regardless of mods and permutations, is a combinatorial nightmare. Companies with teams dedicated to PvP-exclusive games struggle to balance much smaller environments, so it's not particularly reasonable to expect that degree of balancing work for a barely played PvP offshoot of a PvE-oriented game. DE would not realistically be able to balance Conclave even in wanted to, and their overall lack of interest in the mood suggest they care about it about as much as the general playerbase.

[MysticDragonMage]

On 2018-10-07 at 9:50 AM, Teridax68 said:

By contrast, one of the biggest issues with the rest of Conclave, aside from its design failing to appeal to most players, is that the demands it imposes upon balance simply do not match up to the effort DE is willing or able to put into it, particularly with so little overall player interest to justify said work. It's already difficult to take weapons and frames that were clearly not designed with Conclave in mind, and adapt them into a PvP game mode, but to make a roster of now dozens of frames and dozens of weapons balanced, regardless of mods and permutations, is a combinatorial nightmare. Companies with teams dedicated to PvP-exclusive games struggle to balance much smaller environments, so it's not particularly reasonable to expect that degree of balancing work for a barely played PvP offshoot of a PvE-oriented game. DE would not realistically be able to balance Conclave even in wanted to, and their overall lack of interest in the mood suggest they care about it about as much as the general playerbase.

i agree. this is why i say that maybe they are trying to implement too much of the original game into conclave. it just makes everything so difficult to balance for a game that is mainly PvE. yet there are still people that want half of the effort to go to conclave.

as i've mentioned before, i just think conclave needs to be as simple as possible. not as detailed or as complicated as the original game, treating it as just a side feature rather than an entirely new way to play the game. and, yes, i do know that hardcore PvP people are out there wanting more and more content to go to conclave. stalker mode, invasion mode, and whatever darksouls-like concept in general is consistently requested as well as a battle royal mode. however, this is a PvE game first and foremost and the conclave community (though with their own respected opinions) are admittedly a very small fraction of the community as a whole. im saying that they CAN have what they want, i just think what they want is extremely complicated. you cant just implement every weapon from the original game into conclave asap, for example. i personally would not mind if only a limited few were available, but hardcore conclave players just have to have ALL the weapons available, they are just not satisfied otherwise.

Edited October 10, 2018 by MysticDragonMage