AXI S3 Relic drop rate is too low.

[Trung69]

 

44 minutes ago, theGreatZaddinni said:

It's fine if you want to AFK - if that's how you want to play then that's up to you. I don't think that should be what's advocated as a game that needs to be AFK'd to be fun is kind of by definition a game that isn't fun.

It will also skew your opinion about how fine the drop rate is if you aren't repeatedly running missions at the keyboard since while for you watching Neflix and racking up relics feels fine, for those of us putting in actual effort for missions it can get old really fast.

So in your profile, you just got your Rhino prime. The vault is only open for 9 days, you have 49 more days to farm nyx and weapons. See, the drop rate is fine.

And watching netflix, checking facebook, twitter even playing other games while farming in warframe have nothing to do with farming in warframe is not fun. It's just multitasking.

Edited August 2, 2018 by Trung69

[theGreatZaddinni]

4 hours ago, Trung69 said:

 

So in your profile, you just got your Rhino prime. The vault is only open for 9 days, you have 49 more days to farm nyx and weapons. See, the drop rate is fine.

And watching netflix, checking facebook, twitter even playing other games while farming in warframe have nothing to do with farming in warframe is not fun. It's just multitasking.

Me having Rhino proves nothing regarding the drop rate. 

For one thing you have no idea how long I've spent grinding or how many runs I've made at the relic.

For another you have no idea how many relics of other kinds I've farmed compared with the S3s I've got. I've collected a multiutde of V7, K3, 03, A3 and H3 and popped them all and collected them up again compared with the 3 S3s I've opened. For a relic you can only farm in one place it's pretty dissatisfying to get multiple copies of all the relics you can farm in all the other missions. There are loads of other missions I can do to collect all those other relics but if I want to get the S3 then I'm limited to only five.

As far as your "multitasking" is concerned, I have no problem with how you play. That's your business. But don't suggest that this is how everyone else should play. All I was saying is that you will have a different perspective on how hard it is to farm relics when by your own admission you are using auto hotkeys to not have to pay attention to the game so you can do all sorts of other stuff.

Also to be clear: I am specifically not saying that forming in warframe is not fun. The farming in warframe IS the fun. I'm saying that this particular farm has not been fun for both myself and the other people in this formum and that merits mentioning.

[Maxim_M_Payne]

Every single relic released for the Unvaulting has absurdly low odds. I have literally gotten one, and that was from Steel Meridian. It was also the relic which has the Blueprints for Boltor, Scindo, Nyx, and Ankyros, which would be nice, if I didn't already have those. I need the parts, and the chances of getting the relics containing those are roughly equal at present to the chances Vor will shut his stupid old man mouth and just quit talking upon his death: near zero.

[Trung69]

5 hours ago, theGreatZaddinni said:

Me having Rhino proves nothing regarding the drop rate. 

For one thing you have no idea how long I've spent grinding or how many runs I've made at the relic.

For another you have no idea how many relics of other kinds I've farmed compared with the S3s I've got. I've collected a multiutde of V7, K3, 03, A3 and H3 and popped them all and collected them up again compared with the 3 S3s I've opened. For a relic you can only farm in one place it's pretty dissatisfying to get multiple copies of all the relics you can farm in all the other missions. There are loads of other missions I can do to collect all those other relics but if I want to get the S3 then I'm limited to only five.

As far as your "multitasking" is concerned, I have no problem with how you play. That's your business. But don't suggest that this is how everyone else should play. All I was saying is that you will have a different perspective on how hard it is to farm relics when by your own admission you are using auto hotkeys to not have to pay attention to the game so you can do all sorts of other stuff.

Also to be clear: I am specifically not saying that forming in warframe is not fun. The farming in warframe IS the fun. I'm saying that this particular farm has not been fun for both myself and the other people in this formum and that merits mentioning.

Ok. What make farming in warframe fun for me is the feeling when the parts you want finally drop. Because there's limited mission types in the game, no matter what you farming for in warframe you will end up doing those same mission types again and again.

Also one suggestion if you want to get nyx prime systems. you only need a couple of Axi S3s, find a party to do Axi S3 intact, 1 at a time method, I guarantee you can get at least a couple if not 4 or 6 Rhino Prime Systems from those 2 S3s. If you check the price on the market, Rhino Prime systems(a common drop) is more expensive than Nyx P Systems(uncommon Drop) and Scindo P Blade(a RARE drop). Sell the rhino P systems you got from those 2 Axi S3s and buy Rare and Uncommon Drop Items.

Aslo I think DE set the drop rate like that becase they have statistic on how many nyx and rhino parts bp players have and decided to make Axi s3 only drop on rotation C. We players dont have that data so we can't really tell

Edited August 3, 2018 by Trung69

[wngmv]

On 2018-07-30 at 3:40 AM, Opters said:

What are you talking about? Drop rate is functioning properly? Are YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND? We spent 3 days trying to farm A SINGLE RELIC. A. SINGLE. RELIC. In 3 days we only GOT 3 RELICS. 3. RELICS. It's not about being frustrating or satisfying. It's about being stupid. Annoying. Clem.

Here's something. I wanted a mod called "Smite Grineer", it has a chance of 0.17% drop chance (Butcher).
I farmed for 3 hours. And I got it.
Now you - YOU - are telling me, that's just some bad RNG and S#&$ like that? Common dude. From 11Pm to 05AM FOR FOUR. FOUR DAYS. We did Mot (and a bit of Belenus, like, 15 times or more) - each time waves of 4, like you said - for 4 days. Extracted. Joined. Extracted. Joined. And we only got 4. 4 Relics. I don't care what you say; "bad RNG, you feel like that because you are frustrated, you are unlucky etc"

There's NO WAY something could take this long to farm. Not even in Warframe. Something is wrong, and I'm out of here; at least I don't need to get 200 plus relics to go to sleep.

And lemme repeat myself one more time: I GOT MORE THAN 200 RELICS - ONLY 3 WERE AXI S3. Good night.
And sorry if I got rude; I'm tired.

you are being very rude.

 

as someone who has extensive knowledge of statistics (and obviously you don't), I can confirm that post you replied to is correct both in mathematics and in the interpretation. getting what you got is absolutely within the norm of what DE has said. 

 

as the op pointed out, just because it's "working as intended" doesn't mean it's fine. I am not farming axi s3 exactly because of the drop rate, and because I know what I could expect.

 

either apology to that person for being rude, or just be ignorant and don't accept what is numerically correct.

[theGreatZaddinni]

On 2018-08-02 at 10:13 PM, Trung69 said:

Ok. What make farming in warframe fun for me is the feeling when the parts you want finally drop. Because there's limited mission types in the game, no matter what you farming for in warframe you will end up doing those same mission types again and again.

 Also one suggestion if you want to get nyx prime systems. you only need a couple of Axi S3s, find a party to do Axi S3 intact, 1 at a time method, I guarantee you can get at least a couple if not 4 or 6 Rhino Prime Systems from those 2 S3s. If you check the price on the market, Rhino Prime systems(a common drop) is more expensive than Nyx P Systems(uncommon Drop) and Scindo P Blade(a RARE drop). Sell the rhino P systems you got from those 2 Axi S3s and buy Rare and Uncommon Drop Items.

Aslo I think DE set the drop rate like that becase they have statistic on how many nyx and rhino parts bp players have and decided to make Axi s3 only drop on rotation C. We players dont have that data so we can't really tell

I agree that the feeling of farming repeatedly to make the parts drop is what's fun. I loved farming Inaros, Nidus, Harrow and I enjoy farming Khora and will be very happy when I finally get her.

However there are a couple of things I think you may be missing.

Firstly, people are not interested in farming just one of any given vaulted item. Prime vaults are when people stock up on valuable items to trade in the future. This is both a means for more experienced players to earn some extra plat and creates a marketplace where new players can still access vaulted items without having to wait until the next unvaulting. That was how I got my Nova, Saryn and Mag primes. Players buying plat to trade with other players for vaulted items I suspect is a significant part of DE's income - I know it's one of the main things I've spent cash for plat on. I'm pretty sure I will be able to farm up enough relics over the next months to get all the unvaulted items and that great however there is a good chance that that will be it. It will also dominate most of my playtime while the vault is open and as I'm already sick of the missions in the void to get the S3 relic, that's going to be exhausting which is not how warframe usually is for me.

Secondly, as your experience running the missions has been very different to mine and the other people who are sick of this run, your feeling about the drop rate will be influecnced by this. You have been playing a max range rhino and have set auto hotkeys and have been watching netflix, checking facebook, twitter even playing other games and have collected more than three times as many relics as I have over a week of hardcore grinding. To be absolutely clear: that is a perfectly valid way to play the game and if that's what works for you then more power to you. However it's not for everyone and I personally dislike using auto hotkeys and so this option is very much not appealing to me. I like to immerse myself in the grind and all I'm saying is I haven't enjoyed this particular farm as much as I have enjoyed others.

Frankly, you are right, it's not the end of the world if the drops stay as they are, it will just be a less fun time with the game than I am generally used to which is the purpose of feedback. In any case, thanks for your perspective Trung69, it's been an interesting discussion and you have given me some food for thought which I do appreciate.

 

[ronin1572]

I'm in the same boat ran many runs and still no S3. Keeping in mind that this is a limited time thing and I would still have to grind runs to unlock the random loot I get from the relic. It is kinda rediculous. Definitely needs some better balancing.

[Verbose_Verbatim]

On the topic of farming for Axi S3s, someone mentioned being able to Solo farm Mithra with a Rhino build? What is the strategy, and just how AFK is it really?

Or is it meant to be a strategy for multiple people to afk at once on each capture point?

[KiXiLeX]

Im farming 3 days for 5-6 hours each day and i didnt get even 1 Axi S3 Relic.This needs to be fixed!

[(PSN)ItsZeus05]

I haven't got a relic yet and while I don't care too much about the drop rates,I do feel like it is a bit unfair.That's just me though,there are probably people more angry or annoyed than me.

[DR4GAN]

very low chance, spent 5 hours for almost 7 days straight doing survival until now for 20 mins each run, only 3 of them exist for me and the relic not giving me what i want

 

haha

[HC217]

are all of you farming endless? if so, why? solo marduk, you get a roll of all neo/axi on even weight, if you're not terrible you should finish in under 4 minutes. that's 1 4 minute run for a chance at the thing you're spending 20 in endless for. same with all the relics in void right now, 1 minute caps for liths and meso/neo on even weight. look over the droptables de GIVES US to plan out your farm, rather than wasting 3 days going to the wrong farms then crying about RNG grind.

 

also, only 200 relics?

[BowlerHat]

They are pretty low. Nyx systems is stupid high.. higher than Scindo Prime Blade. I haven't got a singe S3 from farming. Luckily I invest in relic packs and all 4 that I have gotten from about 35ish relic packs have given me both Nyx and Rhino Systems. Now I don't care. Its a Rot C 11% just like Harrow, Khora, Ivara. Where you have to play the same thing over and over again. F2P at its finest. 

Low droprate. Yes. Will something be done. Probably not. 

[Gizardpuke]

On 2018-08-06 at 7:31 AM, DR4GAN said:

very low chance, spent 5 hours for almost 7 days straight doing survival until now for 20 mins each run, only 3 of them exist for me and the relic not giving me what i want

 

haha

mate and i, finally got an Axi S3, after 4 runs in mot (AABC, Neo, Neo, Neo, Axi). not the best time wise, but we got one each at least.

[ReshyShira]

I'm fairly certain the drop rates for the S3 are actually lower than officially stated, or there's some kind of anti-farming mechanic going on for diminishing returns.  Since it seems like if I get any S3 at all, it's within the first 12 or so runs.  This one relic having a lower drop rate is probably why all the unvaulted weapons and frames require a part from it in order to keep the prices high. 

Edited August 6, 2018 by ReshyShira

[Quantical]

Yeah the drop occurence for the Axi S3 is just a bad joke, I can totally understand it being rare, but to this point ? I mean i bought more than 30 relic packs from my syndicates and got 0 of it, litterally, zilch, none. So i stopped buying relic packs, not even worth it, i'm better selling augments mods and buying a Rhino or Nyx set with the income. For me it looks like a disguised prime vault cash grab, sorry.

Edited August 7, 2018 by Quantical

[kz3dart]

Axi S2 best farm/time

Random rewars

I don't want to repeat my self but all rewards In Warframe are Luck based  - Random.

Its like complaining that you buy lotto ticket 4 years in row every week and you never win the 10000000$ ....nobody do that !.

Why ppl understood randomness in one game and adding some bias conspiracy theory in another.

 

 

[BowlerHat]

1 hour ago, kz3dart said:

Axi S2 best farm/time

Random rewars

I don't want to repeat my self but all rewards In Warframe are Luck based  - Random.

Its like complaining that you buy lotto ticket 4 years in row every week and you never win the 10000000$ ....nobody do that !.

Why ppl understood randomness in one game and adding some bias conspiracy theory in another.

 

 

1. Lottery odds are 1 and millions. Not 1 in 104. Which would be 2 years buying a lotto ticket every week. So no. No one would complain about that, but the S3 is 1/9 and people have gone through 30 C rotations with nothing and its not outliers. Its common. 

2. Its all about plat. DE needs to keep people happy enough to buy plat and keep values high. That isn't a conspiracy.

[HC217]

29 minutes ago, BowlerHat said:

1. Lottery odds are 1 and millions. Not 1 in 104. Which would be 2 years buying a lotto ticket every week. So no. No one would complain about that, but the S3 is 1/9 and people have gone through 30 C rotations with nothing and its not outliers. Its common. 

2. Its all about plat. DE needs to keep people happy enough to buy plat and keep values high. That isn't a conspiracy.

and yet again the issue that jumps out to me is why are people waiting for rotation c when they could just get it in the one reward pool at aten or marduk? odds are lower, about half, but then you're not spending 3 other 5 minute rotations getting there. 4 minues or less, in and out at marduk solo, easy peasy. y'all are trying to farm the wrong spots and wonder why you're not getting enough of that 1 relic when really you should be farming ALL the relics as fast as possible before DE realizes how broken 1 minute relics (in capture) can be. stop farming endless when the drop tables are more generous at non-endless, unless you're just bad at speedruns.

[Verbose_Verbatim]

Here, since yall don't ever check stats or the Void Relic wiki page, I'm going to copy an excerpt of the maths I shared there. If you can run sabotages / captures even faster than what is stated (including your loading times!) then more power to you, just subtract the difference between my stated times and your faster runs and then multiply the ratio against the stated times (i.e. 2 minutes per capture & load time -> 66% of my stated time -> 66% of 24 minutes per relic -> 16 minutes per relic):

"So. Axi S3 is terrible, most specifically Axi S3 at Mithra / Mot. Statistically, Mithra / Mot will only yield one Axi S3 relic per 180 minutes (1/9 chance at C rotation, so 9 C rotations at 20 minutes per C rotation = 180 minutes). Marduk is much better for Axi S3 relic farming. Marduk will yield one Axi S3 relic per 85 minutes [1/17 chance per run, (4 minute completion + 1 minute loading time = 5 minutes) 5 minutes x 17 = 85 minutes]. DO NOT USE MITHRA/MOT OVER MARDUK TO FARM AXI S3 UNLESS YOU HAVE A GOOD REASON TO.

__

• Hepit gives a 1/8 chance to get a Lith B4 relic per 3 minutes.
• Ukko gives a 2/15 chance to get a vaulted relic (1/15 for Meso N6, 1/15 for Neo R1) per 3 minutes.
• Marduk gives a 2/17 chance to get a vaulted relic (1/17 for Neo R1, 1/17 for Axi S3) per 5 minutes.

Notes:

• Hepit 3-minute-runs provide one Lith B4 relic per 24 minutes.
• Ukko 3-minute-runs provide one Meso N6 or Neo R1 per 22.5 minutes (45min/1MesoN6 + 45min/1NeoR1).
• Stribog 5-minute-runs provide one Lith B4 or Meso N6 relic per 37.5 minutes (75min/1LithB4 + 75min/1MesoN6)
• Marduk 5-minute-runs provide one Neo R1 or Axi S3 relic per 42.5 minutes (85min/1NeoR1 + 85min/1AxiS3)."

What's more: because Sabotage - Marduk (or Mobile Defense - Aten) are your only real options for Axi S3 (and neither is a capture mission, and BOTH dilute the pool by dropping both Neo and Axi relics in the same node) the times to get Axi S3 are wayyyyyyy higher than the times to get any other relic. There is just not a good way to get Axi S3. I wish they'd make some sort of exception and put Axi S3 in the drop table multiple times, or allow it to drop from Mithra/Mot A & B rotations (not just C rotation)... but hey. Axi S3 is miserable and they want you to feel miserable for trying to farm it.

[kz3dart]

Please stop writing 'Chances' when you refer to DE information about how many % of a relicts/mods are in the pool.

50% do not mean that when you flip a coin you always get, heads and then tails in this example you have  probability to get 2 outcome but the outcome can be 9 times head/1times tail. Even with only 2 outcome pool you cant hope or bet for one or another!!!  in warframe minimal pool size is 10000 outcomes with repetition. 

Condition Overload on wiki have 0.02% it means that this mod when we assume all pool is 100% appear only in 0.02%, because we cant win 0.02mod so we need to check how big the pool is. 0.02% from 100 is 0.02, from 1000 is 0.2, from 10000 is 2! so minimal quantity of rewards from Drekar Butcher pool is 10 000 and only 2 mods from those are Condition Overload.

Axi S3 like every relict in Marduk appear in 5.88% from that reward pool,  because we cant win 0.88% relict so  that means the minimal reward quantity in the pool is also 10000 relicts and every types of relicts repeats 588times. Its still 5.88% but with increase chance of repetition of rewards.

So no you do not have "2/17 chances on Marduk" you have 10000 relicts which only 588 are those you want (Axi S3) I really do not call that "2/17 chances" .

 

 

 

Edited August 7, 2018 by kz3dart

[Verbose_Verbatim]

7 hours ago, kz3dart said:

Please stop writing 'Chances' when you refer to DE information about how many % of a relicts/mods are in the pool.

50% do not mean that when you flip a coin you always get, heads and then tails in this example you have  probability to get 2 outcome but the outcome can be 9 times head/1times tail. Even with only 2 outcome pool you cant hope or bet for one or another!!!  in warframe minimal pool size is 10000 outcomes with repetition. 

Condition Overload on wiki have 0.02% it means that this mod when we assume all pool is 100% appear only in 0.02%, because we cant win 0.02mod so we need to check how big the pool is. 0.02% from 100 is 0.02, from 1000 is 0.2, from 10000 is 2! so minimal quantity of rewards from Drekar Butcher pool is 10 000 and only 2 mods from those are Condition Overload.

Axi S3 like every relict in Marduk appear in 5.88% from that reward pool,  because we cant win 0.88% relict so  that means the minimal reward quantity in the pool is also 10000 relicts and every types of relicts repeats 588times. Its still 5.88% but with increase chance of repetition of rewards.

So no you do not have "2/17 chances on Marduk" you have 10000 relicts which only 588 are those you want (Axi S3) I really do not call that "2/17 chances" .

 

 

 

These numbers I gave are what you may expect from many (an infinite number) of coin tosses. You should "expect" around 10/170 runs to proc the Axi S3 Relic, and you should expect that in 170 runs you'll have 20 relics of Axi S3 + Neo R1. The expected procs will still be 100/1700 to be Axi S3, or 1000/17000 to be Axi S3. I don't even mention the phrase "expected" because it should be a given-- we are not looking for a single Condition Overload to proc once. We are looking for multiple copies of multiple unvaulted relics.

In reality, of course, there will be one kid who farms 5 runs and gets 5 Axi S3, and there will be another who farms 50 times to find their first Axi S3. They are both on extreme ends of the bell curve, but smack-dab in the middle of the bell curve are people who find 1 Axi S3 per 17 runs, 2 Axi S3 per 34 runs, etc., etc.. It should all average out to 1 Axi S3 per 17 runs.

I got all of these numbers from https://n8k6e2y6.ssl.hwcdn.net/repos/hnfvc0o3jnfvc873njb03enrf56.html -- and this is a DE-maintained and DE-endorsed set of data. When I said you have a 2/17 chance to find one of the UNVAULTED RELICS (either Neo R1 OR Axi S3) each time you complete the sabotage mission at Marduk, this is because 1 of the 17 guaranteed drops is Neo R1, and another of the 17 drops is Axi S3. Furthermore, this is not a lottery-system where there's a literal failure rate of not finding a relic at all-- you are guaranteed to have a relic at the end of the mission and the drop pool is 17 relics large (2 of which are the unvaulted relics).

Now, onto the subject of an inclusive "or" statement: let's say you're bobbing for apples, blindfolded. There are four different colors of apple, and one of each color in your tub of water (for a total of 4 apples). Each time you bob for an apple, you're guaranteed to nab one, and then a like-colored apple is put into the tub to replace the one you just pulled out so that the pool is the exact same each time you want to bob for apples. The colors are BLUE, YELLOW, RED, and PURPLE. Now then, the "special" ("unvaulted") apples that you really want to bob for are the BLUE and YELLOW ones. When you go to bob for an apple, you have a 50% chance (1/2, or 2/4 cause these are the same fraction) to find a BLUE apple OR a YELLOW apple. To put this into perspective, you have a 1/4 chance to find just a BLUE apple, and you have a 75% chance to find a BLUE, YELLOW, OR RED apple, and a 100% chance to find a BLUE, YELLOW, RED, OR PURPLE apple.

So, I'll say it again: you have a 2/17 chance to find a NEO R1 OR AXI S3 AT MARDUK. This is an INCLUSIVE "OR" statement combined from a 1/17 CHANCE at proccing an AXI S3 --AND-- a 1/17 CHANCE at proccing a Neo R1 FROM THE SAME NODE. Of every 17 runs, you should EXPECT 2 unvaulted relics to appear. Of every 170 runs, you should EXPECT 20 unvaulted relics to appear. Will it happen like this? Maybe, maybe not... some people have to populate the 'lucky' end of the bell curve, and some people have to populate the 'unlucky' end of the bell curve, and yet-- if you are given an infinite number of occurrences, you should see an average of 2 unvaulted relics (Neo R1 OR Axi S3) per 17 total relics from Marduk.

I believe your confusion originates here: you missed the "or" statement and jumped to the conclusion that I somehow said there is a 2/17 chance to find an Axi S3 Relic each time you run Marduk, which is obviously untrue. Please read harder before you put out a "correctional" statement so that may find the "or" in the statement.

You might also find https://old.reddit.com/r/InclusiveOr/ to be a fun resource for learning more about inclusive "or" statements.

ninja EDIT: I figured I should mention that I do use the term "vaulted relic" and "unvaulted relic" interchangeably to refer to the Nyx/Rhino relics that have just come out of vault, since I might be dealing with some internet pedant.

Edited August 8, 2018 by Verbose_Verbatim

[(PSN)CritzRet]

The drop rate is absurd. I’ve done nothing but praise DE for the past 9 months to all my mates saying that it’s inpressive how they balance making money whilst offering the very reasonable chance at getting items without buying plat. That was up until this relic was released. It’s clearly intended to make us just buy plat. First time I’ve ever said anything of the sort. A bit disheartening as if this situation ends up creating a surge in their profit then this will likely be a clear sign of things to come for us. 

[Harrock86]

When you finally get it, make sure to run 1-by-1 shares to get the most out of it. I was really lucky and got all the items from Axi S3 while doing just 2 radshare runs. 

[Kletse]

On 2018-08-03 at 5:04 AM, wngmv said:

you are being very rude.

 

as someone who has extensive knowledge of statistics (and obviously you don't), I can confirm that post you replied to is correct both in mathematics and in the interpretation. getting what you got is absolutely within the norm of what DE has said. 

 

as the op pointed out, just because it's "working as intended" doesn't mean it's fine. I am not farming axi s3 exactly because of the drop rate, and because I know what I could expect.

 

either apology to that person for being rude, or just be ignorant and don't accept what is numerically correct.

Naaa,

He wasn't that rude except for the emotionally loaded "are you out of your mind?" thing. That's not a real personal attack, because it's a question.
You're the one being rude, look:
"as someone who has extensive knowledge of statistics (and obviously you don't)"

He didn't say 1 word that was personal attackish.

You did.

Now apologize.