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[DE]Rebecca

Coming Soon: Devstream #114!

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Loving the game, and loving the devs. You do such great work. Here are my melee questions.

1. Would you consider adding some kind of special move or combo that we can spend the melee counter on? This is something a lot of horde-slasher games do to increase player satisfaction. These could be attached to different stances or weapons so players can carefully choose what weapons they can bring into battle.

2. Will there be other improvements to enemy interaction with melee? There comes many a time that they just bum-rush players and hit them even when they already have a sword halfway through their bodies. A lot of melee centered games add a short stun or stagger in enemy movement so players can follow up on each attack. Another aspect that horde slashers tend to use is softly grouping enemies together when they are caught by the melee range. 

Edited by RavingRoman

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What can you share about the Scythe -> Heavy blade conversion?

With the changes to the combo counter, how will Blood Rush and the Gladiator set mods be affected?

The reload key is not currently used in melee, any plans for this input?

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My Melee related question:

What is your plan for addressing frames like Ash and Atlas, with ability damage (via Blade Storm and Landslide respectively) that is strongly effected by the Combo Counter?

PS: Would Atlas ever be considered for the Exalted Weapon treatment? Since his Landslide scales off of Melee Weapon Impact Damage, he is one frame that currently still needs a "statstick" weapon. His statstick has to be loaded with Impact mods. This is great when you hit that one, but not ideal for regular Melee usage.

Thanks, and keep up the amazing work!

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Question 1:

Spoiler

From the previous rework notes, it was made apparent that the combo counter is build up via quick attacks and do not interact with them, but then are all consumed at once by using a heavy attack.

The question in regards to that would be: Why would I, as a player, want heavy single target / one cleave burst damage in a game that is all about killing masses as quickly and efficiently as possible? Isn't that an incredibly inefficient manner to kill things?

The following part is a predictive question in regards to a specific way of the question above being answered and only should come into play when the question is answered in a manner of "enabling player choice/diversity/fun":

How is a system that is working against the flow of the game supposed to encourage choice/diversity/fun? How can I engage in my choice/diversity/fun of wanting to play coop, but also enjoy the melee experience, if melee is all about heavy single target damage now, while the tenno around us are going on a murder spree with their guns and abilities?

PS: while I do know that I used fun in a negative manner here, fun sure is an important part (it's a game after all), but where is the fun to be had in feeling significantly less helpful to the success of the mission, just because of your choice in wanting to enjoy a bit of melee?

 
 

Question 2:

Spoiler

Will there be changes to the combo system compared to what was shared so far in the dev workshop page related to the melee rework and how will that (in detail > > >) affect the mods related to this system.

 

Question 3:

Spoiler

Style VS Function: where will the balance be met?

Some moves like ground lunges where the player stabs the ground (as previewed for the 2 handed nikana) seem to be rather short range and single target focused, how will this be balanced out?

While some moves look nice (like the war-fan flapping wind in your face parts of the combo) where is the line set between something being functional VS it being nice to look at.

(a good example of this would be tempo royale, me thinks)

4
3

Question 4:

Spoiler

What's the future of slide attacks in warframe and what's the future of maiming strike (in detail).

 

Edited by MaidGalaxy
questions... questions... so many questions...

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I know it's been said new grip types are tough with all the content already in the game. But while were overhauling melee, spear type weapons? Hands at the bottom, forward jabs, slashes, and slams from side to side? Throw mechanic is already there. Pin them to walls like a bow does. Like the start of the last fight scene in Ip Man 3. Or the guy who fights with bambo in the first big fight in Kung Fu Hustle. Or like a defenseman in lacrosse?

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First of all, Zenistar, can we please have the stationary disc's waves go through objects and terrain, it really struggles on non flat surfaces. It has lost a lot of its defensive appeal when enemies aren't getting killed near the disc because it spawned a little too close to the ground. It is one of my favorite weapons to use for its utility alone, it hurts me a little that the zenistar was nerfed as a byproduct of trying to control the game-breaking spin to win tactics (however I do appreciate that the unfun attarax + maiming combo was dealt with, that needed to change at some point. I am thankful for that, don't get me wrong).

I'm aware you're going to be removing the combo multiplier damage from basic attacks and only heavy attacks can use them and will consume them. I'm also aware that bloodrush's crit boost is based on the combo multiplier, but will the crit boost still apply to basic weapon attacks? Otherwise status weapons with condition overload might become supieror, and crit melees will become less desirable.

on another note, some warframe attacks scale with the combo multiplier, melee weapons will be recieving a massive damage buff due to heavy attacks consuming it instantly. Will warframe abilities that scale off of the melee combo multiplier gain a damage boost to compensate as well?

Anyway, thank you guys for all of the hard work you do, there are probably a lot of things yet to be revealed about the melee 3.0 changes, and I'm also totally looking forward to Revenant.

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Given that Life Strike is the most used channeling mod (i'd assume, i don't have any statistics) are there plans to change its effect to still give lifesteal and if so, will it be conditional or not?

One of my main concerns regarding 3.0 is the removal of low general scaling on attacks in favour of a single attack with significant scaling. Even though base damage will be increased to compensate for this change, I worry about the implications in long term endless missions and the looming irrelevance of Melee mods like Blood Rush and Weeping Wounds, will these mods be adjusted to compensate as well or will they be left as they are?

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Ok first thing why did u leave us spacemom 

Will we get umbra style warframe and weapons for all.if yes will they be releasing like prime (every 3 months) and will we have to farm the parts or will it be like excalibur umbra(already maxed ?)

the new war quest

will we join forces with other factions to fight against the orokin.or will there be like new raid or a big battleground thing with more players.

will there be any buffs or any new content coming in for the archwings ?

will there be a new planet or new quest locations coming other than the open worlds like plains and fortuna

thats all 

love u guys u guys r the best ✌️

Edited by Omegagaming0011

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@[DE]Rebecca I'm also very interested to know whether we're going to see the dual wielding system expanded in Melee 3.0. Will we be given the option to use a one-handed secondary and one-handed melee weapon? It's easily my most desired expansion of the combat systems. Thank you!

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Could we get clearer verbage on melee punchthrough? I had a mission where a resource cache spawned behind a wall that couldn't open (it wasn't designed to), and the only way to open it was to bulletjump at the wall. Also, it should be clearly stated that some weapons have the ability to punchthrough multiple foes, but not environments.

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1)On topic of consuming the combo counter for charge attacks (if it's still being considered), what is the devteam's thoughts on modelling like how the axe charge and its special meter works in Dauntless?

2)Will the old galatine charge be coming back? Please!

3)Will slide attacks be reworked to be easier on the fingers, more fun to use, and less spammy?

4)How is the melee rework going to introduce more identity and variance in melee weapon class-specific playstyles, instead of all belonging in the realm of go up to enemy and spam E?

5)More combo depth?

6)Is the current charge attacks and hold combo overlap being looked at for specific combos?

7)Are combos being made more intuitive and less awkward to execute?

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As someone who enjoys the current Melee system (and my Kronen's stats can attest to that), I would hate to see it ruined because of a concern over under-used weapons.

If the concern is over "Channeling is not used often," well that is because it consumes precious energy.  To channel consistently while attacking or blocking eats up energy for powers and any buffer provided by Quick Thinking.  If you check the stats in relation to the Life Strike mod (probably the most valuble of channeling mods) you will see different numbers.

Questions: So what will happen to Life Strike, and other channeling mods in the new system?  What about Operator powers that buff or affect Channeling?  Arcanes affected by channeling?

Most melee are not effective because the stances are uni-directional.  Many swords, daggers, fists, etc. rely on forward attacks, theoretically designed to single-target enemies.  But when that enemy dies after the first couple hits - with many more of the combo left to go - trying to guide to dying targets is ineffective and cumbersome.  This is why Polearms, Tonfas, Heavy Blades, and Whips are more consistently used.  Their wide sweeping attacks make more sense against swarms of moving enemies.  The Warfans stance is an example of uselessness.  The basic combo, ends with the Warframe "fanning" themselves.  How is this effective in battle?

Heavy attacks are likely unused because they are slow.  Enemies do not stand still, and getting shot at while charging is more likely to happen than not.  Enemies also can move away, thus leaving a gap (and no way to close the distance) during the charge.  Why is Melee 3.0 focusing on these charge attacks (from last look).  Even if movement is improved, charge attacks are more burden than boost.

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Probably already been asked on here, but in case it hasn't been. What will be happening to the following mods:

  1. Blood Rush
  2. Drifting Contact
  3. Body Count
  4. Maiming Strike
  5. Drifting Contact
  6. Weeping
  7. Primed Reach
  8. Gladiator Might (and th rest of the gladiator set)

As someone who has spent quite a lot of endo and credits getting these mods to max rank, I am very curious to how these will be changed.

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Firstly i use Galatine P with combos a ton with bloodrush etc so yes i am conerned...BUT

I understand channeling is sort of obsolete WHAT ABOUT ZUNIRIK??

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I noticed immediately during Fortuna reveal that the bounty-equivalent has no resources in its table. Overly-managed progression, in particular wisps, really killed Plains for me so I appreciated that.

Q: But I'm curious to hear you guys talk in more detail about lessons learned from how you handled Plains' resource economy. What do you think is the most important lesson you learned, and what led you to that conclusion?

Q: Also, do you have plans to revisit recurring events and restore the fun parts? Misery to Acolytes, the Fomorian's laser, endurance mode, etc.

Edited by (PS4)BlitzKeir

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I'm hoping for a "Left hand, Right hand" customization mechanic for when you can dual wield weapons e.g. Glaive + Pistol. I'm a righty & having the pistol on the left feels off to me. 😜 Also if this is worked into the new combo system... It will be bonkers! I'm already imagining possible pistol & melee combos! 

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What is the future for channeling mods moving forward?

also how will the zenistar be effected by the heavy attack changes?

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Are you running out of ideas for new warframes? This idea came into mind as I’ve looked back at all the warframes you’ve done in the past and had realized that you’ve done pretty much everything from the different elementals, different materials like glass and Infested, the selection of exalted weaponed warframes, and even the abnormal like Equinox, Limbo, Nekros, or Titania. I’m probably ranting at this point, but I wouldn’t be wrong to say that the selection for fresh and different warframes are limited

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Will there be melee-only Rathuum with bosses using dark-soul attack tells/patterns?

It always felt silly to do a long combo to kill one trash while his buddies bombard me with bullets/explosions.  The combo chains special attacks would feel better if the situation/challenge calls for its use/mastery.

Ex:

Horde mode enemies mean we will gravitate toward Dynasty Warrior style of fast, low-accuracy, AoE spam.

Combo/in-depth melee like Nioh, Dark Souls needs fewer, but tougher enemies that you can focus and study to beat with precision.

Edited by ssh83

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Will melee animation cancels be added into the system and if so, to what extent?  Things like rolls and one handed ability casting can be preformed almost always when using primaries and secondaries, but not when using melee.  Animation canceling is commonly used in games with a strong focus on melee combat (such as NieR: Automata) to make the games feel more responsive.  Will we see anything similar coming to Warframe in Melee 3.0?

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So, it is a big deal whenever Melee changes. I'm primarily a Melee user, so, for simplicity sake, I just have three big questions on my mind. 

1. From what I've noticed, basic weapons have basic animations. But, more complex weapons like Blade whips (Ex.Lacera) still share certain actions with the basic host. For instance, Stealth attacks. Aside from a singular move I've seen against Grinneer, I mostly do the Nikana downward strike animation. Will some of these be changed or tweaked?

2. Stance mods are few in number, but potent and very beneficial nonetheless. I've noticed there are conclave only stances. Since Clans have Dojos, will we possibly see the addition of "Dojo stances" or something along those lines?

3. As my final point, and my biggest question, I'd like to talk about on ZAWs. I love ZAWs. They are undoubtedly one of the best parts of the game for me, not to mention extremely powerful. But, while being able to mix and match for many combinations, they aren't too visually diverse. I'm sure Fortuna, adding Kit guns and custom MOAs, must have been extremely taxing on the entire team (Thank you for all your hard work! Otsukaresama!), but I would like to ask, will ZAWs get an update as well? Like, more parts or even different vendors who specialize in certain weapon types? (Ex. A blacksmith named Masamune who forges ZAW Nikana with dfferent strikes, grips, and links than Hok.) Will there be more variety for ZAWs, like the addition of Blunt weapons like ZAW Hammers or Fist weapons. And, will ZAWs also be elible for Tenno-Gen user created content? (Ex. User made parts or special ZAW skins.) 

Though, no matter how things change, I look forward to it nonetheless. Warframe is an amazing game and I hope it stays around for much longer. Thank you DE for a true masterpiece. 

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