PVP Ideas

[Marl0nBrand0]

I know…we all falled in love with the PVE experience DE provided us, but at the same time a lot of people (within warframe player base and…I’m one of these) are playing PVP games outside of warframe. I think that could be a good thing for the game life cycle enhancement to have this kind of PVP side of the game developed as well.

 

Having said that, I’d like to start this discussion with some ideas as base.

 

We know that some warframes are op compared to others, but this could be the starting milestone for something different! We could keep the same builds we all hardly grinded out during the PVE content to turn these into 20v20 PVP mode in huge maps such as those we had within the POE expansion.

Maybe this will turn the PVP mode in some sort of rock-paper-scissor mode due the team composition (e.g. Catac-Limbo countered by Ash-FatalTel that is countered by Valkyr-4ToWin etc).

 

These are bare ideas to start a discussion that I hope could lead to a PVP enhancement In warframe.

 

Have a nice day

mb

 

[NoLazyShadow]

PvP idea #1: Remove PVP from the Game and never mention it ever again

[Hawk_of_the_Reborn]

14 minutes ago, NoLazyShadow said:

PvP idea #1: Remove PVP from the Game and never mention it ever again

 

[DarkRuler2500]

vor 23 Minuten schrieb NoLazyShadow:

PvP idea #1: Remove PVP from the Game and never mention it ever again

This please.
PVP is just not made for WARFRAME at its current state.

[Marl0nBrand0]

U don't have 2 play it of u don't like it

[(PSN)lokaspoka]

they say remove they follow the mob protests

warframe pvp needs to look at shooters and melee that have great pvp like darksouls 3 star wars battle front,splinter cell, metal gear solid.

stage design, wepon range and wepon damage output.

melee range and melee damage out put. they need a pvp team

 

Edited August 4, 2018 by (PS4)lokaspoka

[ant99999]

Again and again I look through some 'guide' to improve Conclave, again and again I see people trying to turn Warframe in any game but Warframe. Sometimes I think this feedback section must be opened only for ones reached Typhoon at least.

My advice to everyone in this thread. Try to isolate your mind from everything anyone ever said about Conclave, then start a new account and reach Typhoon rank in Conclave syndicate (and by the word 'reach' I mean by actually playing Conclave instead of some economy abuse strategies). And then post another feedback there.

Ok, excuse me for being a bit too straight fotward with the paragraphs above. My actual answer to you will be the following.

В 03.08.2018 в 10:41, Marl0nBrand0 сказал:

We know that some warframes are op compared to others,

Ok that is not about PvP yet, but clearly shows that OP doesn't have enough experience even in PvE. Actually after playing Warframe for almost 4k hours only on Steam I can say that the only warframe that can be considered somehow weak in PvE is Nezha (but again I've never really researched his mechanics deeply enough to judge).

В 03.08.2018 в 10:41, Marl0nBrand0 сказал:

We could keep the same builds we all hardly grinded out during the PVE content to turn these into 20v20 PVP mode in huge maps such as those we had within the POE expansion.

About the first part: here and there some people complain about balance in Conclave. It is obviously not perfect even with limited number of Conclave-only mods. Imagine a mess it would turn into with PvE mods. Cant imagine? Than search for some videos of the old Conclave. About the second part: have you ever played Planetside 2? That very game where you can easily end up with some real paranoia about snipers behind every possible rock, or enemy gunship dropping a bomb on your head somewhere from heavens. Well, this would be a quiet walk in the park compared to the mode your described here because of insane mobility we have in Warframe. You would certainly regreat you suggested this gamemode if it released.

Not going to comment on all these 'removing PvP will solve the problem'. Thankfully the developers can sometimes not listen to some parts pf the community.

В 04.08.2018 в 05:14, (PS4)lokaspoka сказал:

warframe pvp needs to look at shooters and melee that have great pvp like darksouls 3 star wars battle front,splinter cell, metal gear solid.

Yeah, because every of these games is clearly very similar to Warframe, no doubt.

В 04.08.2018 в 05:14, (PS4)lokaspoka сказал:

stage design, wepon range and wepon damage output.

melee range and melee damage out put.

The best level design I've seen since Unreal Tournament 2004. Never had any issues with weapon balance (except maybe Ignis, but the last time I faced it, that player clearly had no idea how to use it, don't know really if it has been fixed).

В 04.08.2018 в 05:14, (PS4)lokaspoka сказал:

they need a pvp team

Yeah, I'll tell you more, they do have it. And you can find some Conclave balance related notes beneath at least every third patch notes. That's why PvP is balanced so well even considering its lots of equipment possibilities.

Oh, forgot about this one:

Maybe this will turn the PVP mode in some sort of rock-paper-scissor mode due the team composition (e.g. Catac-Limbo countered by Ash-FatalTel that is countered by Valkyr-4ToWin etc). 

(Sorry, didn't find how to quote it when editing your reply)

So, this sound really fun, doesn't it? Yeah, on paper. But in reality balancing a class-based game on rock-paper-scissors base is only possible when simultaniously implementing a pick system. When implemented without it, it usually ends up in really unbalanced mess (see current Robocraft for example), because RNG doesnt care about one team being able to counter the other and even worse when it is FFA. I'm personally against the pick system, it limits new players learning capabilities and also leads to forming some stable meta in team composition, and this is always bad.

Edited August 6, 2018 by ant99999
forgot about answering one of the OP's points

[DarkwarriorJ]

Just an observation from my end: I found I rather liked PvP early on, when I first started playing warframe, but since then I've been spending all of my time grinding things out in PvE rather than having fun in PvP. The key thing I've found is this:

1. PvP is too separate. You really have to go out of your way to access PvP content, and it's basically entirely divorced from the PvE cycle. Many games make this work, by having PvP be the 'endgame' of whatever game they're talking about, but this doesn't work in Warframe for one very simple reason:

2. PvE is too massive in content. This isn't a problem that needs to be fixed, but it is the cause of the prior described thing being a problem. Most games that I've played that have a thriving but relatively separated PvP have crap for PvE; so when people complete PvE as a tutorial, they get to the PvE Endgame in less than an hour or so. Warframe, definitely not the case.

In general, my experience with warframe's PvP is sorta the exact opposite of virtually every single possible PvP suggestion given above and in other threads. Every single suggestion where it suggests to change the game entirely to something else or to remove it just brutally misses the point in every single way. Things are, in fact, quite amazingly well balanced, mobility is no where near too much, you cannot have 'too defensive' when you have hitscan weaponry (though I do feel like projectiles are somewhat screwed in PvP, but others prove me wrong on a constant basis), class-based whatever is just riding the ugly bandwagon, etc. Like, the only suggestions I've seen that I can support so far is skill based matchmaking because warframe is somewhere north of Team Fortress 2 when it comes to the skill gap, and introducing some element of the PvE grind into PvP (ex. trading standing for resources because I can only take grinding for neurodes so damn often).

As for my suggestions other than the two I support: Integrate PvP into PvE in some way. Here's some suggestions:

1. Lore. PvP is barebones right now, but the premise is there. The Conclave is a grindstone forever sharpening the Tenno. We are having friendly spars, so we Tenno deliberately limit our weaponry and warframe abilities, because we're out to grind ourselves sharper. That is the justification for the balance; the reduced health and the altered weapon stats and all. We need explanation for what we're going to see in PvP compared to PvE disguised as lore, all the while having this lore make the place feel like it fits in more. Also to give us more of a backstory on Teshin.

2. Ease of access. Not that accessing another terminal is hard, but if PvP was a place on the star chart it would be on PvE players minds a lot more. But don't just shove it in. The best place I can think of for this is the Index - Nef has given the hell up on his trash team, and now Corpus backers are running around sponsoring Tenno teams against Tenno teams. You get a team, you get a Corpus backer, you duel other Tenno, the Corpus backers televise this to their folks back at home, and the Tenno run off with all the credits of the Corpus. We want this to be (relatively) friendly, preferably, which entails some other design choices - such as opportunities to be graceful to the looser (victors can share their winnings with the loosing team?). The lore behind Teshin teaming up with Corpus backers though would be one heck of a thing.

[(PSN)lokaspoka]

19 hours ago, ant99999 said:

help me

look at my list 

 

[ant99999]

15 минут назад, (PS4)lokaspoka сказал:

look at my list 

As far as I see, some nice dudes like SevenLettersKWord already answered you there, why do you think my answer to you would be different?

Well, ok, just to clarify: please leave Warframe alone, it doesn't need to be turned into Slinter Cell/The Division/Battlefront 2/whatever.

[(PSN)lokaspoka]

21 minutes ago, ant99999 said:

21 minutes ago, ant99999 said:

please leave Warframe alone, it doesn't need to be turned into Slinter Cell/The Division/Battlefront 2/whatever.

u missed what i say, like the ppl who reply.key word  features

 

[ant99999]

Never thought you will need another reply on that topic you are referencing to, but alright, fine, I'll answer on every feature you are suggesting there, but the answer will be there, not in this discussion.

Here it is

Edited August 7, 2018 by ant99999
finished writing the answer

[Marl0nBrand0]

On 2018-08-06 at 6:08 PM, ant99999 said:

My advice to everyone in this thread. Try to isolate your mind from everything anyone ever said about Conclave, then start a new account and reach Typhoon rank in Conclave syndicate (and by the word 'reach' I mean by actually playing Conclave instead of some economy abuse strategies). And then post another feedback there.

Oh my gosh dude...Maybe someone has 30+ years of experience on PVP+PVE based games and has some sort of technical background that leads to effective possibilities within the game structure (trade-off between time, costs and goals).

Maybe 4k+ hours 'used' on a single game doesn't mean anything technically...that's just an opinion.

Enjoy your life 🙂

[Marl0nBrand0]

Just now, Marl0nBrand0 said:

Oh my gosh dude...Maybe someone has 30+ years of experience on PVP+PVE based games and has some sort of technical background that leads to effective possibilities within the game structure (trade-off between time, costs and goals).

Maybe 4k+ hours 'used' on a single game doesn't mean anything technically...that's just an opinion.

Enjoy your life 🙂

finally feeling liberating 😍

[ant99999]

2 часа назад, Marl0nBrand0 сказал:

Oh my gosh dude...Maybe someone has 30+ years of experience on PVP+PVE based games and has some sort of technical background that leads to effective possibilities within the game structure (trade-off between time, costs and goals).

Maybe someone has... (I actually don't know what you are proving with this sentence) But having experience in PvE + PvP games doesn't give this person a slightest level of understanding of a certain game he has no experience with (becauce you know PvP + PvE doesn't mean anything, it can be a real time strategy or some mobile clicker that has these types of gameplay within itself). Here we are talking about one game called Warframe and so experience gained in it means much more. And technical background you are talking about... How is it even connected to this topic?

 

2 часа назад, Marl0nBrand0 сказал:

Maybe 4k+ hours 'used' on a single game doesn't mean anything technically...that's just an opinion.

No, they mean a lot. Of course I didn't mean that I have some right to judge a game just because I've spent time in it, it was just an estimated measurement of my experience. But if I began going into details examining every single warframe and proving why he/she is balanced correctly, it would just be a massive wall of text no one (myself including) would enjoy. If you want to go more deeply into warframes balance you should just post a thread in another forum section, and not blame me for speaking too generally.

 

3 часа назад, Marl0nBrand0 сказал:

Enjoy your life 🙂

Tanks, you too.

And by the way, this:

В 06.08.2018 в 19:08, ant99999 сказал:

My advice to everyone in this thread. Try to isolate your mind from everything anyone ever said about Conclave, then start a new account and reach Typhoon rank in Conclave syndicate (and by the word 'reach' I mean by actually playing Conclave instead of some economy abuse strategies). And then post another feedback there.

wasn't any kind of me attacking you. This is my actual advice to you and should be interpretated literally.

That entire reply of mine was a paragraph by paragraph review of your original post where I pointed out every statement that I thought was incorrect and explained why it was so. Maybe you should then point me out where I was wrong instead of implying that I have not enough experience in this game?

[Marl0nBrand0]

1 hour ago, ant99999 said:

Maybe someone has... (I actually don't know what you are proving with this sentence) But having experience in PvE + PvP games doesn't give this person a slightest level of understanding of a certain game he has no experience with (becauce you know PvP + PvE doesn't mean anything, it can be a real time strategy or some mobile clicker that has these types of gameplay within itself). Here we are talking about one game called Warframe and so experience gained in it means much more. And technical background you are talking about... How is it even connected to this topic?

 

No, they mean a lot. Of course I didn't mean that I have some right to judge a game just because I've spent time in it, it was just an estimated measurement of my experience. But if I began going into details examining every single warframe and proving why he/she is balanced correctly, it would just be a massive wall of text no one (myself including) would enjoy. If you want to go more deeply into warframes balance you should just post a thread in another forum section, and not blame me for speaking too generally.

 

Tanks, you too.

And by the way, this:

wasn't any kind of me attacking you. This is my actual advice to you and should be interpretated literally.

That entire reply of mine was a paragraph by paragraph review of your original post where I pointed out every statement that I thought was incorrect and explained why it was so. Maybe you should then point me out where I was wrong instead of implying that I have not enough experience in this game?

Amen!