Still a Lack of Melee-Friendly Bosses and Mini-Bosses

[MysticDragonMage]

INTRO

while on the subject of the new melee 3.0 in the recent Devstream, i would like to bring up an issue that concerns melee.

challenging most bosses and mini-bosses with melee is like a death sentence. if you get to close, the boss, or mini-boss, will counter with there own melee attack which will tear up all of your defenses. some of them may also even knock you back and force you to use ranged weaponry.

bosses are a very big concept of the game, and it makes sense that the Tenno would use anything in there arsenal to take them down, including there trusty blades.

please note that i am not saying that some of these bosses are impossible to engage with a melee weapon. while it is possible to defeat these bosses and mini-bosses with the blade alone, using a Firearm is still the easiest option.

TYPES OF BOSSES / MINI-BOSSES

there are currently three types of bosses and mini-bosses in game that are better off using firearms against.

Weak Point Based

A weak point concept is not a bad thing to have in this game. even for some of these enemies you can still melee in the weak point's general direction and deal damage, but for bosses like Sargus Ruk, the weak-point's hitbox is sometimes too small. in general, using firearms is far more favorable.

i suggest to increase the hitbox for the weakpoints so that players can simply melee in the wakpoint's general direction.

• General Sargus Ruk
• Captain Vor (corrupted)
• Counselor Vey Hek
• Lieutenant Lech Kril (first form)
• Jackal
• Laphantis
• Juggernaut
• Juggernaut behemoth
• The Jordus Golem

Air / Tall Based

right now, 3.0 features more than one melee swing while in the air. thus, i can't say much about enemies such as the Raptor, but for enemies that are not just airborne or tall, refer to the "Weak Point" issue mentioned earlier.

• Laphantis
• Raptor
• Councilor Vey Hek

Heavy Staggered melee based Enemies

there are times where you want to clash steel with these enemies in epic fashion, but their own melee attacks apply way to much staggering effects. it comes to a point where the first hit they land means that you are already dead or at the very least have three quarters less health.

• the Stalker (both forms)
• Lieutenant Lech Kril (hardly an issue, he does have a hammer.)
• Captain Vor (hardly an issue)
• TYL REGOR...

BOSS AND MINI-BOSS SPECIFIC FEEDBACK

Counselor Vey Hek (First Form)

type: weak point and airborne based

by far, the most annoying boss in the game for a solo melee playstyle.

the boss is far to agile to hit his hit box directly with a melee strike, or hitting him more than once at a time. you can get lucky sometimes.

there is a platform above the map were you are at an even ground with the boss. though the scale of the platform makes it seem out of place.

the boss also seems to have the objective of remaining higher than you. every bullet jump causes the boss to rise even further off the ground. 

there is one way you can hit the bosses weak point a few times. it seems that the boss is a solid object, so you can stand on the platform mentioned earlier and attempt to land on top of him. however, something seems to pull you down a few seconds after you have successfully landed on his back.

i dont know if 3.0 will fix some of these issues with airborne combos, but im still worried because the boss is still weak point based.

 

General Sargus Ruk

type: weak point based.

theres nothing much to say.

Ruk is a good boss, just not good for melee users because of the tiny weak points.

 

Lt. Lech Kril

type: weak point (first form)

though his second form is completely vulnerable to melee attacks, his first form could need some discussion.

his first form is fairly powerful, and his melee attacks are fairly balanced. its that weak-point that bothers me the most.

 

Tyl Regor

type: agile based and unavoidable close range combat.

this is a boss that DE claimed to be an epic boss battle with a melee approach. that was not the case.

he is vulnerable to any attack, but has the talent to defend himself against melee attacks most of all.

when you do get close to him, his attacks have a high chances to stagger..

 

Raptor

type: air based.

melee 3.0 features more airborne attacks so i dont see this boss as a big issue in the future, but i do want to mention him either way.

 

Laphantis

type: tall based

the big guy himself.

this boss stands taller than any other. how unfortunate that his weakpoint is on his head...or, heads

 

Juggernaut / behemoth

type: weak-point based

his attacks are very powerful and his weak point (though fairy big) is open for a few short seconds; not enough time for us to approach with a melee weapon.

 

Jordas Golem

type: weak point

the Golem is very powerful and punishes you if you get too close.

he can uses a pulse attack to push you away if you get too close, and proceeds to escape to the other side of the map.

 

The Stalker

type: close range punishment

he has a very high chance to cause stagger.

he also has the ability to adapt to your damage and remains that way for the entire time.

Edited August 6, 2018 by MysticDragonMage

[PsychedelicSnake]

My key problem with several melee-heavy bosses right now (specifically Tyl Regor and Umbra) is their use of hitstun. They stun you with every. single. hit. I hate that. You can block their attacks, but they hit through the block and stagger you, essentially stunning you anyway. You can roll out of the way but since they stun on every hit it's more of a game of keepaway than actually engaging in a melee fight based on timing, parries, hits, and so forth.

[peterc3]

1 hour ago, PsychedelicSnake said:

melee fight based on timing, parries, hits, and so forth

How would this work given the P2P networking and 4 players, potentially not entirely in sync.

[LAD.Y]

1 hour ago, peterc3 said:

How would this work given the P2P networking and 4 players, potentially not entirely in sync.

probably like Vindictus or any other multiplayer MMORPG. Mechanics like this do exist, thats how most Fantasy boss fights go. The biggest issue would be there's no real 'taunt' mechanic in Warframe since in most MMO's that's how you'd get that melee focused character off your caster who can then do them big spells and stuff and how the melee focused character can you know keep the target from switching it's target

[(XBOX)Erudite Prime]

8 hours ago, peterc3 said:

How would this work given the P2P networking and 4 players, potentially not entirely in sync.

Same as Dark Souls lol
Not perfect, but playable. 

[UltraLYT]

Agreed.

There are so many great melee weapons in Warframe, with so many great stances, however this game actually lacks melee friendly enemies in the style of "The Surge" (futuristic version of Dark Souls).

[Kainosh]

Actually its not really a Boss problem....even though they also need some tweaks.

Melee combat just lacks mechanics.    You cant stagger bosses with timed blocking to make a window for several attacks....And you cant really hit those weakspots as there is no "aiming" in melee mode. 

You also cant do air combos or latch onto enemies (rodeo) to deal with those flying/tall ones that has weaksots really high in the air.    I kinda want melee to be as versatile as guns...suitable for all situations and not just some.  

 

 

 

 

[LAD.Y]

11 hours ago, Kainosh said:

Actually its not really a Boss problem....even though they also need some tweaks.

Melee combat just lacks mechanics.    You cant stagger bosses with timed blocking to make a window for several attacks....And you cant really hit those weakspots as there is no "aiming" in melee mode. 

You also cant do air combos or latch onto enemies (rodeo) to deal with those flying/tall ones that has weaksots really high in the air.    I kinda want melee to be as versatile as guns...suitable for all situations and not just some.  

 

 

 

 

yeah. I was just thinking, like after my initial reply that honestly they wouldn't have to necessarily change warframe abilities or boss mechanics, but simply add more mechanics to melee. Like passives. like certain weapons have a higher taunt or stagger or what not or introduce longer dodges or something. If the melee itself did more then it could balance it out

[BowlerHat]

Well comparing dark souls simply isn't fair. Those bosses are challenging no matter what level you are because it is based on skill. Warframe's bosses difficulty is based on your weapons stats. So basically everyfight becomes damage -> invincible -> damage -> invincible... Kill. Which is mostly waiting.

Lephantis was the most fun personally.

[MysticDragonMage]

On 2018-08-04 at 3:12 PM, PsychedelicSnake said:

My key problem with several melee-heavy bosses right now (specifically Tyl Regor and Umbra) is their use of hitstun. They stun you with every. single. hit. I hate that. You can block their attacks, but they hit through the block and stagger you, essentially stunning you anyway. You can roll out of the way but since they stun on every hit it's more of a game of keepaway than actually engaging in a melee fight based on timing, parries, hits, and so forth.

yes. thank you.

i also want to point out that i did not mention umbra for a reason. you cant actually use your warframe against umbra, and because this is clearly intended gameplay that refers to the quest's entire plot, i decided to leave him out.

if anything, whatever applies to the stalker also applies to umbra and generally any warframe based enemy.