Vauban Change Propositions

[Hecking_Birb]

Me and an alliance mate, kingsrage, discussed Vauban's abilities and what they should be changed to. He, an experienced Vauban player, and I, someone with good knowledge of proper balancing.

Passive is fine as-is.

His first ability should be Minelayer. It makes sense. Tesla should replace Bounce, and a Shock(Volt)-like arcing ability, albeit unchangeable and somewhat small (3-5m?). Concuss stays, no changes. Shred stays, with 20% more base armor decrease. The latter two should receive trigger range increases, as they're currently way too precise. Trip Laser goes, allowing for faster switching between the important abilities.

His second ability should be Vortex. Nothing else to say, it's just a very 50-energy sort of ability.

His third ability stays Bastille, it's fine.

His fourth ability should be an exalted grenade launcher, or something similar, that works well with his kit. It would work on a clip-based system, being summoned with 3-5 shots, then vanishing after the shots are expended, or upon recasting. Good explosion radius (at least comparable to Whipclaw(Khora)), high status chance, good critical chance, 700(negotiable) blast damage at base. A low cast cost, perhaps 50 or 25.

With these changes, Vauban is still a frame that's heavily oriented towards CC, and still retains a majority of his overall feel, but becomes viable in more situations. His current passive and the suggested fourth ability would prove to add a lot to Vauban's DPS, especially when considering that Blast damage would allow his passive to take effect on any subsequent attacks. His kit would be fairly good on energy, and he'd be more streamlined, instead of feeling as old as he is.

If anyone has feedback, do let me know.

[kingsrage]

and the gun better look cool lmao

[Hecking_Birb]

11 hours ago, kingsrage said:

and the gun better look cool lmao

yes, like give it some touches of Pyrana and Tonkor

[Atsia]

Goddamnit, can we stop with the unoriginal exalted ideas?! Vauban has no need for any kind of exalted weapon, for #*!%s sake.....

[Hecking_Birb]

On 2018-08-12 at 11:04 PM, Atsia said:

Goddamnit, can we stop with the unoriginal exalted ideas?! Vauban has no need for any kind of exalted weapon, for #*!%s sake.....

Well, what do you propose?

[(XBOX)GhostofaMessiah]

I like it! Especially if Atsia is against. LMFAO!

[Atsia]

2 hours ago, Hecking_Birb said:

Well, what do you propose?

I'd at best say an exalted sentinel, but that's unlikely to happen with his new passive actually being good. Other than that, the only thing that really needs removal from his kit is Bounce. Everything else just needs some values tweaked.

[Hecking_Birb]

On 2018-08-19 at 6:21 PM, (XB1)GhostofaMessiah said:

I like it! Especially if Atsia is against. LMFAO!

wait what's your affiliation with atsia

[(XBOX)GhostofaMessiah]

1 hour ago, Hecking_Birb said:

wait what's your affiliation with atsia

Everytime someone says anything about any Warframe having an exaulted weapon, that one is on scene as if by some magical means even... Just to put down the idea of every Warframe getting "some kind of magical weapon" 

And personally I like the idea of everyone and their mother getting their own custom made "magical" signature weapon.

[Atsia]

1 hour ago, (XB1)GhostofaMessiah said:

Everytime someone says anything about any Warframe having an exaulted weapon, that one is on scene as if by some magical means even... Just to put down the idea of every Warframe getting "some kind of magical weapon" 

And personally I like the idea of everyone and their mother getting their own custom made "magical" signature weapon.

Because most of the time an exalted weapon doesn't fit the frames theme and/or is generally unneeded, like that old thread that about one for Limbo.

[(XBOX)GhostofaMessiah]

54 minutes ago, Atsia said:

Because most of the time an exalted weapon doesn't fit the frames theme and/or is generally unneeded, like that old thread that about one for Limbo.

Why do you have to be so minimalist? 

I'm referring to the part about more being unneeded. 

Where I'd agree in real life, more doesn't always make sense or fit, but in a game that's already over the top...

What's wrong with a lil mo peppa?

If Vauban's mine layer ability was lobbed out of a high tech looking cricket stick (China lake) how does that not season the beef a bit?

 

[Atsia]

51 minutes ago, (XB1)GhostofaMessiah said:

Why do you have to be so minimalist? 

I'm referring to the part about more being unneeded. 

Where I'd agree in real life, more doesn't always make sense or fit, but in a game that's already over the top...

What's wrong with a lil mo peppa?

If Vauban's mine layer ability was lobbed out of a high tech looking cricket stick (China lake) how does that not season the beef a bit?

 

Using your analogy, you can't just throw in any old spice into the mix, and you don't always need more or else you could ruin the food entirely. Exalted stuff is fine, but they don't make real sense to shoehorn in on a frame that doesn't have it as a focus of their kit or a part of their theme, i.e, an exalted could make sense on someone like Nezha who has unique weapons as a part of his mythos, but is out of place with Limbo, who's kit isn't focused on a weapon or damage. I would expect grenade launcher on a high damage, demolition expert type frame, not a sapper/engineer like Vauban.

[(XBOX)GhostofaMessiah]

2 minutes ago, Atsia said:

Using your analogy, you can't just throw in any old spice into the mix, and you don't always need more or else you could ruin the food entirely. Exalted stuff is fine, but they don't make real sense to shoehorn in on a frame that doesn't have it as a focus of their kit or a part of their theme, i.e, an exalted could make sense on someone like Nezha who has unique weapons as a part of his mythos, but is out of place with Limbo, who's kit isn't focused on a weapon or damage. I would expect grenade launcher on a high damage, demolition expert type frame, not a sapper/engineer like Vauban.

If I remember correctly, in a post about Nezha I suggested the Chakram ought to be Exaulted and animate exactly like the glaive, you were there to immediately shoot that idea down.

As for granade launchers and having to be "high damage" IRL they can shoot tear gas and smoke as well a wide variety of ammunition including even non leathal options... 

As for flavor, I'll always pass on salt and welcome more pepper...

[Atsia]

1 minute ago, (XB1)GhostofaMessiah said:

If I remember correctly, in a post about Nezha I suggested the Chakram ought to be Exaulted and animate exactly like the glaive, you were there to immediately shoot that idea down.

As for granade launchers and having to be "high damage" IRL they can shoot tear gas and smoke as well a wide variety of ammunition including even non leathal options... 

As for flavor, I'll always pass on salt and welcome more pepper...

I will admit, I was coming to that after like 3 or 4 back to back threads about giving x frame an exalted/give Booben turrets so It was abit of a knee jerk, and I will apologize for that.

[(XBOX)GhostofaMessiah]

1 minute ago, Atsia said:

I will admit, I was coming to that after like 3 or 4 back to back threads about giving x frame an exalted/give Booben turrets so It was abit of a knee jerk, and I will apologize for that.

No prob.

You have to admit that granade launcher is looking better and better too right?

[(XBOX)GhostofaMessiah]

I'll also add that I apologise that I publicly tried to call you out. I did take constantly being opposed by you in every thread a little too personal.

It wasn't my classiest moment.

But I promise it's all in good fun.

Edited August 27, 2018 by (XB1)GhostofaMessiah

[Atsia]

7 minutes ago, (XB1)GhostofaMessiah said:

No prob.

You have to admit that granade launcher is looking better and better too right?

It would definitely be a visual upgrade.

 

2 minutes ago, (XB1)GhostofaMessiah said:

I'll also add that I apologise that I publicly tried to call you out. I did take constantly being opposed by you in every thread a little too personal.

It wasn't my classiest moment.

But I promise it's all in good fun.

It's no problem, it's just a forum space on the internet

[Hecking_Birb]

I don't think vauban should get an exalted "just because", I think he should get an exalted because he's already very weapon-focused. You can't do good damage without a weapon, and since none of his abilities buff a weapon (Hence why Mirage and Harrow don't need an exalted), he could use an exalted.

[Atsia]

10 minutes ago, Hecking_Birb said:

I don't think vauban should get an exalted "just because", I think he should get an exalted because he's already very weapon-focused. You can't do good damage without a weapon, and since none of his abilities buff a weapon (Hence why Mirage and Harrow don't need an exalted), he could use an exalted.

Technically his new passive functions as a constant weapon buff, if minor. I don't want an exalted for him as you suggestion doesn't really fit into his overall theme. He's an "engineer" (sapper technically going by his inspiration) and his kits follows that theme with being mostly CC. Yes, he could do with more damage, but I don't think giving him an exalted is the way to go about that, since high damage isn't even really what I expect with him. I'd rather he get some more utility like Mirage and Harrow, which I feel makes more sense.

Edited August 29, 2018 by Atsia

[Hecking_Birb]

2 hours ago, Atsia said:

Technically his new passive functions as a constant weapon buff, if minor. I don't want an exalted for him as you suggestion doesn't really fit into his overall theme. He's an "engineer" (sapper technically going by his inspiration) and his kits follows that theme with being mostly CC. Yes, he could do with more damage, but I don't think giving him an exalted is the way to go about that, since high damage isn't even really what I expect with him. I'd rather he get some more utility like Mirage and Harrow, which I feel makes more sense.

His aesthetic doesn't quite allow it, sure, but DE doesn't seem to care about aesthetic over function considering Revenant is almost nothing like a sentient, except the one ability the creative director actually had a hand in.

[Atsia]

1 minute ago, Hecking_Birb said:

His aesthetic doesn't quite allow it, sure, but DE doesn't seem to care about aesthetic over function considering Revenant is almost nothing like a sentient, except the one ability the creative director actually had a hand in.

Well it's not sentient but eidolon. Like with squares and rectangles, an eidolon is a sentient, but a sentient is not an eidolon. He has the Eidolon looks, and 3 of his abilities invoke their abilities so I'd say he does fit that part of his theme (I'd more so question his kinda more lacking vampiric themes). Most every frame has abilities that generally invoke or function well with their aesthetic theme (if they distinctly have one have one)

[Hecking_Birb]

1 minute ago, Atsia said:

Well it's not sentient but eidolon. Like with squares and rectangles, an eidolon is a sentient, but a sentient is not an eidolon. He has the Eidolon looks, and 3 of his abilities invoke their abilities so I'd say he does fit that part of his theme (I'd more so question his kinda more lacking vampiric themes). Most every frame has abilities that generally invoke or function well with their aesthetic theme (if they distinctly have one have one)

can you really tell me that a 'nade launcher or, hell, even a shotgun wouldn't fit him? I feel like an exalted shotgun seems fitting.

Also, his abilities aren't really Eidolon. His 1's got a little vomvalyst above the thralls' heads, but do you know an eidolon that can make thralls? And where does it say an eidolon can put people to sleep, or turn into mist? All of those abilities are very vampiric, but not very eidolon or sentient. His 4's the only remotely accurate thing, and it's not even actually eidolon. Gantulysts have the disco laser, sure, but it's a little thing deployed high in the air. Certain sentients, however, have a self-focused laser orb. However, digressing.

Vauban could use a damage ability, purely on account of the fact none of his abilities do damage or buff damage, except for his passive.

[Femuru]

i still think his passive could be better if it was any enemy cc by vauban abilities him and allies would do bonus 25% dmg rather than vauban do 25% more dmg on any cc enemy . 

shred ok the biggest pain of it is the "debuff duration" (for armor strip build) on it either give it alot longer of a duration or remove the aspect completely and let the debuff stay on the enemy because just the delay to throw the grenade in the first place already a setback especially in a endurance run where a split second could be life or death.

bastille im extremely surprised to find a single vauban player not complaining about it really. with the augment of pushing enemies every 4 secs in a endurance is just not the greatest idea not only could it slow kills per sec but in every 4 sec. . . .pretty sure a single bullet can potentially kill in that amount of time for something to work wen i want it to. then there is the factor wen i throw a different grenade at a enemy held up they can start walking thru and its kinda tilting if u ask me.

as for a exalted grenade launcher i kind of like the idea of it since he is all about cc having some dmg added to his kit especially wit his new passive might be a good add i like the idea personally i still think vauban need more fixes beyond tho just my opinion however. . . . .but i doubt DE is even listening to us 

[Hecking_Birb]

28 minutes ago, ShenRyujin said:

i still think his passive could be better if it was any enemy cc by vauban abilities him and allies would do bonus 25% dmg rather than vauban do 25% more dmg on any cc enemy . 

shred ok the biggest pain of it is the "debuff duration" (for armor strip build) on it either give it alot longer of a duration or remove the aspect completely and let the debuff stay on the enemy because just the delay to throw the grenade in the first place already a setback especially in a endurance run where a split second could be life or death.

bastille im extremely surprised to find a single vauban player not complaining about it really. with the augment of pushing enemies every 4 secs in a endurance is just not the greatest idea not only could it slow kills per sec but in every 4 sec. . . .pretty sure a single bullet can potentially kill in that amount of time for something to work wen i want it to. then there is the factor wen i throw a different grenade at a enemy held up they can start walking thru and its kinda tilting if u ask me.

as for a exalted grenade launcher i kind of like the idea of it since he is all about cc having some dmg added to his kit especially wit his new passive might be a good add i like the idea personally i still think vauban need more fixes beyond tho just my opinion however. . . . .but i doubt DE is even listening to us 

yo this post might make really good points, can we get a proper native english speaker to sorta translate this? (I have trouble understanding it despite only speaking English)

Edited August 30, 2018 by Hecking_Birb

[Femuru]

2 hours ago, Hecking_Birb said:

yo this post might make really good points, can we get a proper native english speaker to sorta translate this? (I have trouble understanding it despite only speaking English)

sorry if my english isnt so great so ill simplify it on each skill idea.

passive: any enemy cc by any of vauban abilities will receive 25% more damage from all incoming attacks

shred: increase debuff duration/remove it (armor stripping will last longer or is permanent)

bastille: 1. augment change instead of pushing enemies, they are lifted up into the air as the ability normally would 2. any grenade thrown at a enemy in bastille (besides vortex) will no longer cancel bastille affect