[Warframe Rework Concept] Vauban Revision on Mine Control {WIP & Updated: Channel-Toggle Vortex Concept}

[FoxFX]

[CURRENT TESLA]

• [Con] Hits one enemy at a time where the game will most likely have multiple enemies flanking Warframes
• [Con] Has poor damage and requires a holding down mechanic to improve its damage and status proc

 

NEW 1ST ABILITY SUGGESTION

[NEW TESLA]

Vauban lays down a shock mine which triggers when an enemy is close by shocking and dealing damage. Tesla grows in explosive power while Vauban is within proximity.

• Explodes when enemies are within X-XX meters dealing XXX-XXXX Electric Damage in an AOE burst hitting enemies X-XX meters 
• Tesla Mines deployed on the field gains X {CHARGES} each second they are within XX meters from Vauban (60 meters)
• Each {CHARGES} increases the base damage of the mine's base damage by XX% per {CHARGE}

 

---

[CURRENT MINELAYER]

• [Con] Wonky ability switching controls and mechanic can leave Vauban vulnerable to enemy attacks choosing mines in mid-combat
• [Con] Overshadowed by the CC elements of Vortex and Bastille

 

NEW 2ND ABILITY SUGGESTION

[NEW ABILITY: SEEKER]

Vauban sends seeker mines that can either distract enemy attention or be latched on foes for additional explosive combinations.

• A one-handed cast ability where Vauban deploys multiple seeking latching mines that draw enemy aggro and attempt to latch themselves onto enemies.
• Enemies that are successfully latched onto these mines have their Damage Output cut by ##% while the mines are still latched on. Seeker Mines latched on enemies will explode if they are hit by attacks or by Vauban's explosive mines [Tesla/Vortex?].
• Seeker Mines destroyed by enemies before they can latch explode dealing XXX Blast damage in X meters.
• [Debating] Exploding Seeker Mines shred enemy armor.
• Seeker Mines have base Health XXXX unaffected by mods

 

---

 

[Current Bastille]

Aside from bugs of Bastille, this idea will seek to adjust the skill to work synergetic with this current Vauban ability style of mines as well as remove the limit of Bastille's enemy levitation with a tradeoff.

 

NEW 3RD ABILITY SUGGESTION

[New Bastille - Bastille Bomb]

Vauban throws an energy-infused grenade which bursts a temporary containment field that suspends enemies and charges mines in its zone.

• Bastille's blast lifts ALL enemies in the blast for X-XX seconds and creates a zone. [Zone in this version can't lift enemies that enter in it from the outside]

• In the Zone: All Tesla/{New 4th?} mines inside Bastille's zone gain {CHARGES} each second in Bastille's zone.

• Enemies lifted by Bastille will not trigger Tesla mines in the zone until Bastille's suspension duration wears out.

• All Vauban mines deployed in Bastille's zone permanently gain an increased trigger range and explosion range.

 

---

 

{4TH ABILITY SUGGESTION}

With this Bastille having its monster lifting limit removed, I fear a new 4th ability might be a possible change to look into. I am thinking of making it either a more defensive ability or something else entirely different.

 

NEW 4TH ABILITY SUGGESTION

[New Vortex- Channeled Vortex Bomb]

Lobs a grenade which explode in a mass of energy violently attracting enemies. Upon Vauban's command, the ability explodes dealing mass damage based on total matter absorbed.

• Vortex in this variant is a toggle-channeling mine which also absorbs projectiles.

• Vortex gains a {CHARGE} per enemy caught in Vortex each second increasing the damage of Vortex's explosion

• Toggling out Vortex causes the singularity to explode dealing XXXX Damage (50% Blast & 50% Magnetic) + XXX% per {CHARGE}

• Each projectile added to Vortex improves the damage-over-time power of Vortex's suction.

• Detonating a Tesla on Vortex causes the Vortex singularity to recoil and adds {CHARGE} from that Tesla into Vortex's total {CHARGE}

 

 

---

 

[REWORK CONCEPT GOAL]

This version of the Vauban rework has the goal of making Vauban's traps a little more lethal and also separating some of Vauban's abilities to have different utility with CC:

• Vauban's 1st Tesla is to be more of the damaging-burst mines with the stun effect added to them for enemies that survive
• Vauan's 2nd is an ability made to self-protect Vauban with multiple autonomous mines that distract enemies and draw their fire. The mines in this version can debuff enemies if they latch onto them weakening their attack power. Triggering their explosions could also dampen their defenses.
• In Vauban's 1st ability, I introduced the idea of having Vauban nearby deployed mines on the field increase their base damage overtime. Bastille in this variant has that mechanic as well when it has mines in its field. Having Vauban and Bastille within the vicinity of a mine this way stacks the damage they can do. In trade-off for wanting Bastille's enemy limit removed, I had to remove the field's ability to lift incoming enemies. I am still looking into how Repelling Bastille can assist with this, but it may remain the same effect.

 

---

[MISCELLANEOUS ABILITY IDEAS]

 

BOLAS

• Vauban targets an enemy with a thrown modified Bolas. The target is stunned while the Bolas spins around damaging surrounding enemies X-XX meters nearby dealing XXX damage each time and pulls them closer to the trapped target each hit. After a duration is over, the Bolas collides with each other dealing XXXX Blast Damage 3 times.

"TAP-TOGGLE TESLA" CONCEPT {Alternative to Holding Down Tesla}

• [Tap Tesla to toggle on the Tesla allowing Vauban to charge the Tesla as long as he holds it]
• [Toggling on Tesla gives Vauban a tactical passive] Options include Increase Sprint Speed/Evasion/Shield Recharge Delay Reduction
• [Toggle Tesla off to throw the grenade]
• Toggling on Tesla Drains Energy per second into Telsa improving the punching power it has
• If Vauban's energy reaches 0, the Toggle does not wear off nor get canceled (unless touched by Nullifier)
• Toggling on lobs the Tesla with the current {CHARGE} surged into it

FORTIFY BARRIER

• Vauban lobs a device that produces a shield barrier which can also auto-recover after a few seconds of depletion (think of the barrier gimmick of Nullifier Bubbles). This device can be picked up by allies with the [X] command or can be latched onto ally NPCs by directly landing it on them. Barrier contains XXXX Health and recovers X-XX% of its health per second. It recovers to full health after complete depletion after 5 seconds have passed.

FLASHBANG

• Vauban lobs a Flashbang grenade stunning enemies in its AOE. Enemies hit will be debuffed with reduced accuracy and deafening them to all gunfire.

 

 

 

---

 

THE MAJOR PROBLEMS OF VAUBAN TURRET IDEA

• Would contradict [DE]'s recent Warframe design direction
  • They have released and reworked Warframes (aka Saryn) to have styles that will need to build upon continuously to scale or create some flow of combat
  • Turrets would directly be some press-forget ability that some would expect to do all the work for the player
• Conflicting with Warframes that already have "Turret-type" Abilities
  • Chroma's Effigy is already a turret and giving Vauban a turret would either have it end up under-powered or overpowered compared to it. In the long run, it would be more of a carbon-copy of Effigy exalted/non-exalted
  • Must consider how [DE] would scale the damage or longevity of Turrets
  • Turret ideas require them attacking one enemy at a time in a game where players are always surrounded by foes. Based on the damage scaling of a Turret, it would either become too weak to consider using or too powerful to be seen as "lazy"
• Out-of-scope theme of Vauban as an "Engineer"
  • It is more thematic to see Vauban as a Sapper (Combat Engineer) or Grenadier that uses unique grenades/mines to thwart enemy lines and/or deploy defensive countermeasures
  • It feels we are rushing too soon with the idea "Because Vauban is an Engineer, he must have turrets" without exploring all possible abilities Vauban can have

 

 

Edited August 16, 2018 by FoxFX

[FoxFX]

UPDATED OP

 

[REWORK CONCEPT GOAL]

This version of the Vauban rework has the goal of making Vauban's traps a little more lethal and also separating some of Vauban's abilities to have different utility with CC:

• Vauban's 1st Tesla is to be more of the damaging-burst mines with the stun effect added to them for enemies that survive
• Vauan's 2nd is an ability made to self-protect Vauban with multiple autonomous mines that distract enemies and draw their fire. The mines in this version can debuff enemies if they latch onto them weakening their attack power. Triggering their explosions could also dampen their defenses.
• In Vauban's 1st ability, I introduced the idea of having Vauban nearby deployed mines on the field increase their base damage overtime. Bastille in this variant has that mechanic as well when it has mines in its field. Having Vauban and Bastille within the vicinity of a mine this way stacks the damage they can do. In trade-off for wanting Bastille's enemy limit removed, I had to remove the field's ability to lift incoming enemies. I am still looking into how Repelling Bastille can assist with this, but it may remain the same effect.

 

With this Bastille having its monster lifting limit removed, I fear a new 4th ability might be a possible change to look into. I am thinking of making it either a more defensive ability or something else entirely different.

[FoxFX]

UPDATED OP WITH MISCELLANEOUS ABILITY IDEA

 

BOLAS

• Vauban targets an enemy with a thrown modified Bolas. The target is stunned while the Bolas spins around damaging surrounding enemies X-XX meters nearby dealing XXX damage each time and pulls them closer to the trapped target each hit. After a duration is over, the Bolas collides with each other dealing XXXX Blast Damage 3 times.

[nameomnz]

I don't know are you still insist on the Sapper theme but let me examine this.

Tesla: I assume this is an ability for camper. But there are still some problems.

1. Detection: Sometime enemies do not come in group. One enemy going to defuses the tesla by stepping on them allows the rest of the pack to move pass our defense. To fix this we need to lay down multiple layers of tesla and not overlap them, Which also cost a lot of time and energy.
2. Urgency: We can't help but to throw tesla into the crowd, It may or may not cc depends on ancient healer. But it will explodes for sure, Now if it exploded immediatly that's mean the damage ramp up would not be benefitcial at all.
3. Distance: If I'm correct enemy's aggro range to where they will starting to shoot at us is about 25-30m, So having 60m is good but to impliment this into the tiny room that we are usally in is not so great. The enemies have to either be disarmed or an infested to get a full potential of your tesla.
4. Patience: It would be a chore to wait for the tesla to ramp up their damage, And to make them hold the charges as many as possible we have to never let any enemies touch them.

• Suggestion:
  • Make the tesla duration refreshable or having infinite duration.
  • Disarmed the survived enemies. This will make them quickly rush into another tesla.
  • Make vauban carry the tesla charges. The charge will ramp up tesla's damage reguardless of how long it's been laid. Allows for each tesla to deal equal amount of damage between them.
  • Augment: [Chain Lightning] Make the shock have a dominal effect dealing damage to nearby shocked enemies. Also the shocked enemies will be disarmed and will rush into another one of our tesla and it's just go on and on.

I still have a load of things to talk about but I have no time for today so I'll leave it at tesla first.

NOTE: I'm starting to worry that your idea is moving further and further away from vauban's original theme. So take my word as just a criticism as I may not side with your idea.

Edited August 14, 2018 by nameomnz

[FoxFX]

1 hour ago, nameomnz said:

I don't know are you still insist on the Sapper theme but let me examine this.

Tesla: I assume this is an ability for camper. But there are still some problems.

1. Detection: Sometime enemies do not come in group. One enemy going to defuses the tesla by stepping on them allows the rest of the pack to move pass our defense. To fix this we need to lay down multiple layers of tesla and not overlap them, Which also cost a lot of time and energy.
2. Urgency: We can't help but to throw tesla into the crowd, It may or may not cc depends on ancient healer. But it will explodes for sure, Now if it exploded immediatly that's mean the damage ramp up would not be benefitcial at all.
3. Distance: If I'm correct enemy's aggro range to where they will starting to shoot at us is about 25-30m, So having 60m is good but to impliment this into the tiny room that we are usally in is not so great. The enemies have to either be disarmed or an infested to get a full potential of your tesla.
4. Patience: It would be a chore to wait for the tesla to ramp up their damage, And to make them hold the charges as many as possible we have to never let any enemies touch them.

• Suggestion:
  • Make the tesla duration refreshable or having infinite duration.
  • Disarmed the survived enemies. This will make them quickly rush into another tesla.
  • Make vauban carry the tesla charges. The charge will ramp up tesla's damage reguardless of how long it's been laid. Allows for each tesla to deal equal amount of damage between them.
  • Augment: [Chain Lightning] Make the shock have a dominal effect dealing damage to nearby shocked enemies. Also the shocked enemies will be disarmed and will rush into another one of our tesla and it's just go on and on.

I still have a load of things to talk about but I have no time for today so I'll leave it at tesla first.

NOTE: I'm starting to worry that your idea is moving further and further away from vauban's original theme. So take my word as just a criticism as I may not side with your idea.

 

I have been thinking of adding in a new alternative to the "Holding Down Tesla" mechanic DE introduced to "Toggle Tesla" idea. I will inform later on this.

[FoxFX]

OP UPDATE:

• Changing name from Seeker to Cluster.
• NOTES ON "TAP-TOGGLE TESLA"
  • [Tap Tesla to toggle on the Tesla allowing Vauban to charge the Tesla as long as he holds it]
  • [Toggling on Tesla gives Vauban a tactical passive] Options include Increase Sprint Speed/Evasion/Shield Recharge Delay Reduction
  • [Toggle Tesla off to throw the grenade]

[(XBOX)Nightseid]

Im not sure about seekers , how about plain old Grenades. I can hold until the time is right

 

 

[FoxFX]

2 hours ago, (XB1)Nightseid said:

Im not sure about seekers , how about plain old Grenades. I can hold until the time is right

 

 

 

Incidentally, I wanted Vauban's 1st Tesla to be an actual Shock Grenade, but I feared some would want to keep the "mine" aspect of it.

If you have seen the notes on the [Tap-Toggle Tesla], that was to be the footnote for the new Tesla ability in case the initial Tesla idea would not work out.

[FoxFX]

UPDATED OP WITH MISCELLANEOUS ABILITY IDEA

 

FORTIFY

• Vauban lobs a device that produces a shield barrier which can also auto-recover after a few seconds of depletion (think of the barrier gimmick of Nullifier Bubbles). This device can be picked up by allies with the [X] command or can be latched onto ally NPCs by directly landing it on them. Barrier contains XXXX Health and recovers X-XX% of its health per second. It recovers to full health after complete depletion after 5 seconds have passed.

[FoxFX]

UPDATED OP WITH NEW TOPIC: PROBLEMS WITH TURRET IDEA

 

THE MAJOR PROBLEMS OF VAUBAN TURRET IDEA

• Would contradict [DE]'s recent Warframe design direction
  • They have released and reworked Warframes (aka Saryn) to have styles that will need to build upon continuously to scale or create some flow of combat
  • Turrets would directly be some press-forget ability that some would expect to do all the work for the player
• Conflicting with Warframes that already have "Turret-type" Abilities
  • Chroma's Effigy is already a turret and giving Vauban a turret would either have it end up under-powered or overpowered compared to it. In the long run, it would be more of a carbon-copy of Effigy exalted/non-exalted
  • Must consider how [DE] would scale the damage or longevity of Turrets
  • Turret ideas require them attacking one enemy at a time in a game where players are always surrounded by foes. Based on the damage scaling of a Turret, it would either become too weak to consider using or too powerful to be seen as "lazy"
• Out-of-scope theme of Vauban as an "Engineer"
  • It is more thematic to see Vauban as a Sapper (Combat Engineer) or Grenadier that uses unique grenades/mines to thwart enemy lines and/or deploy defensive countermeasures
  • It feels we are rushing too soon with the idea "Because Vauban is an Engineer, he must have turrets" without exploring all possible abilities Vauban can have

[FoxFX]

UPDATED OP WITH MISCELLANEOUS ABILITY IDEA

 

FLASHBANG

• Vauban lobs a Flashbang grenade stunning enemies in its AOE. Enemies hit will be debuffed with reduced accuracy and deafening them to all gunfire.

[FoxFX]

UPDATED OP WITH "CHANNELING VORTEX" IDEA

 

NEW 4TH ABILITY SUGGESTION

[New Vortex- Channeled Vortex Bomb]

Lobs a grenade which explode in a mass of energy violently attracting enemies. Upon Vauban's command, the ability explodes dealing mass damage based on total matter absorbed.

• Vortex in this variant is a toggle-channeling mine which also absorbs projectiles.

• Vortex gains a {CHARGE} per enemy caught in Vortex each second increasing the damage of Vortex's explosion

• Toggling out Vortex causes the singularity to explode dealing XXXX Damage (50% Blast & 50% Magnetic) + XXX% per {CHARGE}

• Each projectile added to Vortex improves the damage-over-time power of Vortex's suction.

• Detonating a Tesla on Vortex causes the Vortex singularity to recoil and adds {CHARGE} from that Tesla into Vortex's total {CHARGE}

[FoxFX]

I wanted to shift gears with the ability switch of Minelayer and turn Vauban into a more quicker casting Warframe. The whole Toggle-Tesla Mechanic I have posted will be further explained as how this ability works won't cancel the ability if there is no energy on Vauban.

[FoxFX]

NOTES FOR THE TESLA-TOGGLE CONCEPT

• Toggling on Tesla Drains Energy per second into Telsa improving the punching power it has
• If Vauban's energy reaches 0, the Toggle does not wear off nor get canceled (unless touched by Nullifier)
• Toggling on lobs the Tesla with the current {CHARGE} surged into it

[FoxFX]

THREAD TOPIC THOUGHTS

One of my past topics and points I always wanted to convey was how Bastille and Vortex both felt they were competing against each other as CC abilities which was one underlining problem I have always tried to say. Though the idea of combining both abilities feels like a nice idea, I feel having Bastille remain would be best and changing Vortex for good.

The hardest part of this Vauban rework is everyone's reluctance to hold onto both Bastille and Vortex and both have been spammed not only because they were good CC abilities that just topped enemies from doing anything threatening, but because it was basically the only thing that made Vauban survive.

There are already Warframes that have crowd control that exceed Vauban's capabilities and they can either buff allies, heal, heavily debuff enemies, deal massive damage with their other abilities or their actual CC abilities, draw enemy attention and more.

When it comes to Vauban, when I see a Warframe that deploys traps and throws grenades, I see a Warframe that could actually throw traps that can:

• Deal massive damage on enemies
• Use his own traps to hide other traps improving the hidden ones
• debuff enemies with his traps in some way or form
• throw some sort of mine that can buff himself and allies if they walk on them

In the case of this combining 3rd and 4th, I'd like to hold off on this idea until we actually think further on other directions Vauban as a sapper/grenadier/trapper can do.

Edited August 16, 2018 by FoxFX

[FoxFX]

THREAD TOPIC THOUGHTS

 

The idea of Bastille being Vauban's ultimate has been one option I would recommend at this point. HOWEVER, I do not think that Vortex and Bastille should be combined into one just because they are both good CC abilities that players cannot choose from one or the other. At least not at this point in time.

One core issue I tend to see is the identity crisis of Vauban's theme. One day some called him sapper, then trapper, then and engineer that needs a turret (which I have been thoroughly AGAINST for major reasons I have listed already). Personally, I feel the Grenadier/Sapper route would be the best route for Vauban at this point as it maintains the one-handed casting style of Vauban and makes for a more reliable and quicker playstyle.

[FoxFX]

Another thread that I see proves my concerns on the current performance of Tesla and its 1-hit enemy at a time gimmick. In this thread, I'd like to further work on the Tap-Toggle Tesla mechanic a bit further on. Until then, I haven't gotten much of a feedback on this.