The Phantasma

[SnazzyZ]

So ever since tennocon when I first saw that Revenant was getting his own primary that was a shotgun I was hyped as all hell, under the assumption it would be something akin the the giant gun the eidolon uses making it like a sentient boar, but no, after devstream 115 they showed it isn't even a shotgun at all and looks like a glowing tickle laser. I'm sorry but this all has really just been a let down recently as the revenant has by far been the thing I was most hyped about this year. with no two handed katana coming (which is understandable given melee 3.0) the shotgun being very unappealing, and revenents abilities seeming to not be very impactful I just don't know what to stay excited for.

[Omega-Shadowblade]

Laser using Eidolons, laser shotgun. /shrug

Though personally as a fan of weapons like quanta, I'm happy to have a laser shotgun without weird mechanics like Convectrix or the Phage where aiming is required to move the beams. 

Hoping it'll really have some good punch to it.

[SnazzyZ]

Laser beams aren't shotguns, if you want something that is an energy based shotgun look at the plasmor. by no definition is the phantasma a shotgun.

 

[NightBlitz]

i take it you dont like the convectrix then?

[Omega-Shadowblade]

Just now, PolarFall said:

Laser beams aren't shotguns, if you want something that is an energy based shotgun look at the plasmor. by no definition is the phantasma a shotgun.

 

What defines a shotgun in a sci-fi game? Generally shotguns in most games are defined by weapons with close range, multi projectile attacks, and high damage.  Surprisingly we have weapons that fall outside of usual definition in warframe. Synapse is a "rifle". Amprex is a "rifle".  Neither of those fit the usual definition of their weapon type. 

 

[SnazzyZ]

1 minute ago, NightBlitz said:

i take it you dont like the convectrix then?

I dont find them nearly as satisfying as shotguns, which is what we were originally shown the phantasma was going to be. I'm not saying it's BAD, just that I'm very disappointed.

[Loza03]

Not gonna lie, kinda in the same boat.

It's not so much that it is - this is what it could always have been intended for it to be. It's just that it's appearance doesn't match it's output.

It's a bigass shotgun with what appears to be a ton of barrels. I expect a big boom, perhaps some kind of wide-bore shot that decimates everything in a 90 degree arc a very short ways in front of you, or some kind of slow-firing explosive shot. Some kind of BFG. But the output is a stream of energy that's  smaller than the front of the gun. Given how punchy the Eidolon's guns are, I was expecting something similar to that.

The appearance doesn't match the function, is what I'm saying.

Otherwise, I understand the lack of the Nodachi. I understand that it's only not here for purely practical reasons, and I can wait. I look forward to wielding that bad boy.

[SnazzyZ]

11 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Not gonna lie, kinda in the same boat.

It's not so much that it is - this is what it could always have been intended for it to be. It's just that it's appearance doesn't match it's output.

It's a bigass shotgun with what appears to be a ton of barrels. I expect a big boom, perhaps some kind of wide-bore shot that decimates everything in a 90 degree arc a very short ways in front of you, or some kind of slow-firing explosive shot. Some kind of BFG. But the output is a stream of energy that's  smaller than the front of the gun. Given how punchy the Eidolon's guns are, I was expecting something similar to that.

The appearance doesn't match the function, is what I'm saying.

Otherwise, I understand the lack of the Nodachi. I understand that it's only not here for purely practical reasons, and I can wait. I look forward to wielding that bad boy.

I felt the same way, I expected something with a satisfying "boom" like the cannon the actual eidolon has, and thought it might be a slug based version of the boar or sobek but with one round in each barrel.

[Loza03]

Just now, PolarFall said:

I felt the same way, I expected something with a satisfying "boom" like the cannon the actual eidolon has, and thought it might be a slug based version of the boar or sobek but with one round in each barrel.

There's a lot of Eidolon abilities they could have gone with really. I mean, if they really wanted a played-straight beam shotgun, why not texture it to look like the Gantulyst laser? Even if the stats were the same, it'd FEEL better, you know what I mean?

[Omega-Shadowblade]

1 minute ago, Loza03 said:

There's a lot of Eidolon abilities they could have gone with really. I mean, if they really wanted a played-straight beam shotgun, why not texture it to look like the Gantulyst laser? Even if the stats were the same, it'd FEEL better, you know what I mean?

I agree. While I don't mind it being a beam shotgun, I do feel that the effect could have been more actually like the eidolons. I'd love to have a power laser at my disposal.

[SnazzyZ]

Just now, Loza03 said:

There's a lot of Eidolon abilities they could have gone with really. I mean, if they really wanted a played-straight beam shotgun, why not texture it to look like the Gantulyst laser? Even if the stats were the same, it'd FEEL better, you know what I mean?

Exactly! the design just hypes you up for something far larger than it actually does, statwise it could be amazing, the issue I have with it isn't being bad but not being satisfying. And with rev already having lasers for his 4th, shouldn't his signature gun be themed after the eidolon missiles?

[Loza03]

2 minutes ago, Omega-Shadowblade said:

I agree. While I don't mind it being a beam shotgun, I do feel that the effect could have been more actually like the eidolons. I'd love to have a power laser at my disposal.

Legit, the stats could be the same, it's purely the looks for me. Far too weedy for an Eidolon blast.

1 minute ago, PolarFall said:

Exactly! the design just hypes you up for something far larger than it actually does, statwise it could be amazing, the issue I have with it isn't being bad but not being satisfying. And with rev already having lasers for his 4th, shouldn't his signature gun be themed after the eidolon missiles?

Also agreed. Perhaps something akin to the BFG from the latest Doom, with ammo restrictions like the Lenz for balance purposes? A big piercing shot that fires smaller homing shots (kind of horizontal versions of the sky missiles) at enemies not in its direct line of fire, and a tiny ammo pool. Like, one or two shots, meaning you REALLY have to be careful to shoot big groups, even if you're using carrier, since even big groups occasionally fail to drop ammo packs. Even the Eidolons seem to use the sky rain move as a desperation attack anyway, it'd be appropriate. 

[SnazzyZ]

12 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Legit, the stats could be the same, it's purely the looks for me. Far too weedy for an Eidolon blast.

Also agreed. Perhaps something akin to the BFG from the latest Doom, with ammo restrictions like the Lenz for balance purposes? A big piercing shot that fires smaller homing shots (kind of horizontal versions of the sky missiles) at enemies not in its direct line of fire, and a tiny ammo pool. Like, one or two shots, meaning you REALLY have to be careful to shoot big groups, even if you're using carrier, since even big groups occasionally fail to drop ammo packs. Even the Eidolons seem to use the sky rain move as a desperation attack anyway, it'd be appropriate. 

Maybe something like a short charge up time and then it could fire like 8 homing energy shots? making it behave more akin to a lock on flak?

[Loza03]

Just now, PolarFall said:

Maybe something like a short charge up time and then it could fire like 8 homing energy shots? making it behave more akin to a lock on flak?

That's also a good idea, especially if you were left vulnerable during the charge up, similar to how the Eidolons stand perfectly still when launching several of their own attacks.

Big power, big risk. Eidolons are tanky enough to take it, but you might need to be more cunning.

In all honesty, I'm disappointed by Revenant. He could be fun, but he really isn't that Eidolon-y. Eidolons are hulking Kaiju that don't give a damn about anything and throw out huge damage without much accord for things like 'aim' or 'personal safety' or... well, especially aim. They shoot EVERYTHING, that's why they're so dangerous. Revenant's a cool concept, just not... an Eidolon. He's too precise, and Eidolons don't do mind control as far as I'm aware (I dunno, quest might address that). I don't think we've got a DPS/Tank hybrid that leaves themselves open yet either, would be interesting.

[SnazzyZ]

8 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

That's also a good idea, especially if you were left vulnerable during the charge up, similar to how the Eidolons stand perfectly still when launching several of their own attacks.

Big power, big risk. Eidolons are tanky enough to take it, but you might need to be more cunning.

In all honesty, I'm disappointed by Revenant. He could be fun, but he really isn't that Eidolon-y. Eidolons are hulking Kaiju that don't give a damn about anything and throw out huge damage without much accord for things like 'aim' or 'personal safety' or... well, especially aim. They shoot EVERYTHING, that's why they're so dangerous. Revenant's a cool concept, just not... an Eidolon. He's too precise, and Eidolons don't do mind control as far as I'm aware (I dunno, quest might address that). I don't think we've got a DPS/Tank hybrid that leaves themselves open yet either, would be interesting.

And I also don't see eidolons firing off energy flamethrowers, they're walking siege machines that stand their ground, so it would make more sense to have revenant reflect that. Also if it was a large charge up weapon that required rev to stay put for a bit it would add better synergy with his armor ability.

 

[Loza03]

11 minutes ago, PolarFall said:

And I also don't see eidolons firing off energy flamethrowers, they're walking siege machines that stand their ground, so it would make more sense to have revenant reflect that. Also if it was a large charge up weapon that required rev to stay put for a bit it would add better synergy with his armor ability.

 

Huh. Yeah. Especially if charging it allowed you to use abilities whilst charging, just not moving. Charge, get hit, enthrall, BOOM.

That'd be fun.

[SnazzyZ]

30 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Huh. Yeah. Especially if charging it allowed you to use abilities whilst charging, just not moving. Charge, get hit, enthrall, BOOM.

That'd be fun.

Yesssssss that would feel so amazing to do oh my gosh.
you could combo eidolon armor > start charging > enemy hits you during charge to enthrall them > blast the gun to kill them and make a mine 

Edited August 18, 2018 by PolarFall

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

3 hours ago, PolarFall said:

Laser beams aren't shotguns, if you want something that is an energy based shotgun look at the plasmor. by no definition is the phantasma a shotgun.

 

Phage is a beam shotgun.

[SnazzyZ]

5 hours ago, (XB1)GearsMatrix301 said:

Phage is a beam shotgun.

Mod classification doesn't dictate what a gun functionally is, the beam weapons are more akin to the Ignis than they are shotguns in function. 

 

6 hours ago, Loza03 said:

Huh. Yeah. Especially if charging it allowed you to use abilities whilst charging, just not moving. Charge, get hit, enthrall, BOOM.

That'd be fun.

A possible idea could be having it convert shields into extra ammo, and it charges like the drakgoon before shooting 4-8 energy spheres that target the closest enemies, or alternatively it fired like the boar but with slug style shots instead of pellet based shots as that would make it the first automatic slug shotgun.

[GinKenshin]

17 minutes ago, PolarFall said:

Mod classification doesn't dictate what a gun functionally is, the beam weapons are more akin to the Ignis than they are shotguns in function. 

 

 

having several shotguns that aren't 'shotguns' (in your opinion) like the phage and conventrix (whatever the spelling)....why did you assume it's gonna be your type of shotgun? a shotgun doesn't have to be the usual type of shotgun, which is proven by the weapons I mentioned earlier 

there's nothing wrong with the new weapon, this is just your opinion and your fault for assuming what a weapon does. and again, this is a game. if every shotgun is gonna be the usual close range with a lotta pallets like most of what we have now, it's gonna get boring and old really fast, there's nothing wrong in variety 

[SnazzyZ]

55 minutes ago, GinKenshin said:

having several shotguns that aren't 'shotguns' (in your opinion) like the phage and conventrix (whatever the spelling)....why did you assume it's gonna be your type of shotgun? a shotgun doesn't have to be the usual type of shotgun, which is proven by the weapons I mentioned earlier 

there's nothing wrong with the new weapon, this is just your opinion and your fault for assuming what a weapon does. and again, this is a game. if every shotgun is gonna be the usual close range with a lotta pallets like most of what we have now, it's gonna get boring and old really fast, there's nothing wrong in variety 

I’m not saying variety is bad, from shell types with pellet and slug based traditional shotguns, to flak cannons like the drakgoon and zarr, even the Corinth with the air blast. The thing with these weapons is that there is variety while still functioning reasonably the same where they are recognizable. While the phage and convectrix may use shotgun ‘mods’ they themselves are not shotguns, that is as much my opinion as it is an opinion the sky is blue. The euphona and detron are pistols and use pistol mods, but are shotguns due to how they functions, not their mods. 

I apologize for expecting a shotgun when it was said to actually be one at tennocon and designed in a similar fashion to one, must be my fault for understanding weapon types. 

[Loza03]

2 hours ago, GinKenshin said:

having several shotguns that aren't 'shotguns' (in your opinion) like the phage and conventrix (whatever the spelling)....why did you assume it's gonna be your type of shotgun? a shotgun doesn't have to be the usual type of shotgun, which is proven by the weapons I mentioned earlier 

there's nothing wrong with the new weapon, this is just your opinion and your fault for assuming what a weapon does. and again, this is a game. if every shotgun is gonna be the usual close range with a lotta pallets like most of what we have now, it's gonna get boring and old really fast, there's nothing wrong in variety 

Does this gun not LOOK like a BFG?

The Eidolons fire is nothing like what this gun fires (which is a cloud of energy, as opposed to lasers or distinct energy pellets) and the output beam is different in shape to its barrels, which we can see when they're examining Revenant they do give us a brief look - there's two giant 'barrels' with a big space in between where the energy seems comes out from when they were firing it. Looking at an Eidolon's gun, they have two barrels as well.

I personally have got nothing wrong with it being a beam shotgun, but I feel that the beam that comes out looks wrong for how they designed the physical appearance of the weapon.

[SnazzyZ]

10 minutes ago, Loza03 said:

Does this gun not LOOK like a BFG?

The Eidolons fire is nothing like what this gun fires (which is a cloud of energy, as opposed to lasers or distinct energy pellets) and the output beam is different in shape to its barrels, which we can see when they're examining Revenant they do give us a brief look - there's two giant 'barrels' with a big space in between where the energy seems comes out from when they were firing it. Looking at an Eidolon's gun, they have two barrels as well.

I personally have got nothing wrong with it being a beam shotgun, but I feel that the beam that comes out looks wrong for how they designed the physical appearance of the weapon.

And the fact that beam weapons are lack luster in the “wow” department, also with beams it’s even more difficult to have variety as you can’t change much about “constant beam of damage”. And rebbeca herself refers to all beam weapons as their own category, not as shotguns at all, they lump them all together along with ignis so calling phantasma a shotgun at all in the first place was untrue in its current state. And it has 4 barrels total ( 5 if you count the center and 8-9 if you count the barrels as double due to the dual exit holes on each) 

[Loza03]

3 minutes ago, PolarFall said:

And the fact that beam weapons are lack luster in the “wow” department, also with beams it’s even more difficult to have variety as you can’t change much about “constant beam of damage”. And rebbeca herself refers to all beam weapons as their own category, not as shotguns at all, they lump them all together along with ignis so calling phantasma a shotgun at all in the first place was untrue in its current state. And it has 4 barrels total ( 5 if you count the center and 8-9 if you count the barrels as double due to the dual exit holes on each) 

The whole beam thing I don't really care about. Yeah it's a little samey, but whatever, I'm not the one actually designing the weapon. We have 'beam shotguns', and regardless of how that whole bedazzle goes together, it's not worth splitting hairs over. It's a beam weapon that uses shotgun mods. Whatever. But I can't let go of the fact that, yes, this thing has 2-9 barrels depending on how you decide to classify them, and yet the beam doesn't look anything like what should be coming out of a gun like that.

It doesn't FEEL right, and feel is very important in a video game.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

Look man, we’ve been getting a lot of shotguns lately. It’s nice to get one that’s different.