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My thoughts on the login rewards rework


Spartan336
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Both sides have a valid claim to why this is good and bad, so I'm going to try and break it down to the best of my ability.

The new login rewards system will make login rewards that usually took 100's of days worth of login into much smaller, presumably randomized segments. This will make items that Veterans, like me, have spent a long time getting available for new players much much earlier. 

On one hand you have the new player who's argument rightly consists of: "It would literally take years to get that stuff and I don't want to have to do that! The rewards system is bad anyways."

Then you have the people who have already worked for that going: "If this happens all the work I put into those items will be for nothing! This is a real kick in the balls!"

Now before someone says something along the lines of 'It's just logging in man. It's not that big of a deal.' the act of logging in isn't a big deal, sure, but logging in over the course of years is a big deal, and the login rewards were a sort of reward for that.

I understand both of these views. I don't want my login rewards to not be worth what they were, but at the same time I want the newer players to have those items in a timely manner. But I think that, despite being a bit blue balled by this, I agree with DE's decision. Hoards of new players are coming into Warframe and it makes a ton of sense why DE would want to cater to them. Without them the game would die. And no one can really deny that the login rewards system was in need of something like this anyways. I've already been told to suck it up when the system was introduced in the first place, since all my time up til then wasn't counted. I can do that again, and I hope that this makes newer players a bit more happy. All I request is that DE not forget about it's Veterans. Please the newer players, but please do not do so at our expense more than is necessary. Thanks. 

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Was there something about this on yesterdays devstream? I only saw the last half of it.

I know they've spoke about it in the past saying they might make it so you could choose a goal you want to work towards and get it at the end so you could like get Zenistar in 50-100 days instead of 300.

Personally I don't really care if they do that. I just hope there's additional stuff for the rest of us who's already been there, and done that.

And honestly, I have almost 1,000 days logged in, and there was no actual work put into this. I just log in every day anyway, and play anywhere from 10 minutes to 4 hours. So the login has been just a passive gain.

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MR 25 here [created my account 2014]
Over 1450hours played non-steam
12000hours played steam

IF I'm not veteran then I do not who is,are veterans exclusively founders?

Only 100!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  log in rewards. 

Current system is good for people that do not play,it is maybe good for people that just come to log in and click exit game.
It is maybe good for "newbies" not veterans because veterans did not have log-in day rewards(i mean they did not count like they do now) 

I agree with both trading and selecting the reward,
activity should be rewarded not just log-in
It was bullS#&$ to reward anything non-cosmetic as log in reward in first place!

 

12 minutes ago, Dreadwire said:

 

I just hope that the prime mod stay within the login reward. And can't be obtain from baro or any event in the future.

 

So I completely disagree even with this,anything that is not cosmetic should not be rewarded exclusively for log-ins
ACHIEVEMENTS?Sure. Mastery rank? Maybe

I'd even move log in rewards to daily,weekly or montly missions "kill 10000monsters solo" etc so you could not just log-in log-off bye game and get rewards that active players will never see.
 

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14 minutes ago, MidoriFuse said:

MR 25 here [created my account 2014]
Over 1450hours played non-steam
12000hours played steam

IF I'm not veteran then I do not who is,are veterans exclusively founders?

Only 100!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  log in rewards. 

Current system is good for people that do not play,it is maybe good for people that just come to log in and click exit game.
It is maybe good for "newbies" not veterans because veterans did not have log-in day rewards(i mean they did not count like they do now) 

I agree with both trading and selecting the reward,
activity should be rewarded not just log-in
It was bullS#&$ to reward anything non-cosmetic as log in reward in first place!

I apologize in advance for maybe sounding cynical, but I wish to use what you said to make a point that I do not see often made in regards to this subject.

So I assume there was a gap when you stopped playing? What was it? A year? 2 years?

My point with asking that is the login reward system is to give players incentive to stick with the game and punishing those who uninstal it for long periods of time. 

So this system is also to say "Please don't uninstal the game for a year".

I do not believe this is an "end all be all" point. But I did feel like raising it.

 

 

Anyways I suppose I don't have an issue with them changing the system. I just enjoy getting stuff. So as long as I keep getting more stuff I am content.

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1 minute ago, Madway7 said:

I apologize in advance for maybe sounding cynical, but I wish to use what you said to make a point that I do not see often made in regards to this subject.

So I assume there was a gap when you stopped playing? What was it? A year? 2 years?

My point with asking that is the login reward system is to give players incentive to stick with the game and punishing those who uninstal it for long periods of time. 

So this system is also to say "Please don't uninstal the game for a year".

I do not believe this is an "end all be all" point. But I did feel like raising it.

 

 

Anyways I suppose I don't have an issue with them changing the system. I just enjoy getting stuff. So as long as I keep getting more stuff I am content.

Alright lets say 
person  (A) does log in once per week for 24 hours non-stop play because he gotta work 6days a week outside his home(something most people in this country do)
person (B) does log in every day but does not even go play some match or chat with clan,community He does literally just log in and log out maybe play for hour or two(combined).

You agree person B should be rewarded for this behavior while person A should get "rekt" by this system?

That much to your argument.

In my specific case it is also that days before specific day did not count at all in to this system.
But I'm using myself as just example of some considerable flaws that i find there,while log-ins surely boost daily log-in player numbers it is not anyhow related to active community.
I'm clan leader active on discord even if i do not log in to the game 

I'm not even against rewards for other people,but rewards that are direct POWER upgrade and MASTERY RANK?

I disagree with that on same grounds I disagree with P2W exclusives.
It is something you can never catch-to. If I log in 2000times now people will have 3000days,It is not something I can reach with activity,skill or anything else.

And that is not issue as long as it is cosmetic which it currently is not


It would be the actual case at  some time when founders with log in reward will be 30mr and others will be 29mr for year or more at current item release speeds.

To me that is pretty demotivating. If you like it,whatever 100people 100tastes.
I imagine it like being 99level in wow,while others are 100 because they pay 10$ more for dlc 5 years ago and logged in few times.



 

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1 hour ago, MidoriFuse said:

Alright lets say 
person  (A) does log in once per week for 24 hours non-stop play because he gotta work 6days a week outside his home(something most people in this country do)
person (B) does log in every day but does not even go play some match or chat with clan,community He does literally just log in and log out maybe play for hour or two(combined).

You agree person B should be rewarded for this behavior while person A should get "rekt" by this system?

That much to your argument.

In my specific case it is also that days before specific day did not count at all in to this system.
But I'm using myself as just example of some considerable flaws that i find there,while log-ins surely boost daily log-in player numbers it is not anyhow related to active community.
I'm clan leader active on discord even if i do not log in to the game 

I'm not even against rewards for other people,but rewards that are direct POWER upgrade and MASTERY RANK?

I disagree with that on same grounds I disagree with P2W exclusives.
It is something you can never catch-to. If I log in 2000times now people will have 3000days,It is not something I can reach with activity,skill or anything else.

And that is not issue as long as it is cosmetic which it currently is not


It would be the actual case at  some time when founders with log in reward will be 30mr and others will be 29mr for year or more at current item release speeds.

To me that is pretty demotivating. If you like it,whatever 100people 100tastes.
I imagine it like being 99level in wow,while others are 100 because they pay 10$ more for dlc 5 years ago and logged in few times.



 

Alright. I guess I will concede to that point.

Just seems like they could make the same argument for the general grind too. 

I can only play once a week so make it easier for me to get this.

 

Edit: "But I'm using myself as just example of some considerable flaws that i find there,while log-ins surely boost daily log-in player numbers it is not anyhow related to active community."

i just thought of something in regards to this point. Is it possible that this system does stimulate player activity? 

Edited by Madway7
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22 minutes ago, Madway7 said:

Alright. I guess I will concede to that point.

Just seems like they could make the same argument for the general grind too. 

I can only play once a week so make it easier for me to get this.

Actually you can flat out buy most things already,it is even pretty hard for me to think of something i can not except log in rewards and founder items.
But the main difference is:you can catch-up even to something that is hard to grind eventually. 
But you can never catch up to log in rewards,just like Your 1 year old son would never be as old as you. Even after you die we can keep counting those years
"Midori fuse would be 350 years old today"

If you get 10 chocolote bars every day then after 100 days you have 1000chocolate bars
If after those 100 days I get 10chocolate bars every day too you will have always 1000cb more

We could wait million years and you would still have 1000cb more

You get the idea.
Meanwhile I could bake 1000chocolate bars in single day and catch up if it was grind ;^)

Again,if you get golden armor,most amazing sygil in the world,ship decoration. GOOD FOR YOU!

I believe I m not alone in this either,otherwise skin selling would not be considered the best way to monetizen f2p games in cosnumer's eyes.
While buy power on the other side that makes people boycott company and quit.


People do realize difference between those pretty easy.

"edit to your edit,as i've posted before i could see it"
Yes better wording would be "does not necessary relate"
For me it surely does not work,it may for someone but I have no such data and you provide no data of such kind either. So I'd join the agnostic side at best and give you my opinion that it may work for very,very few people in intended way at best.

I've based the comment on single anecdote i had in my inventory. 

One could argue "I m using myself as example" was clear enought at that. But there you go,reworded to objective hapiness of this universe ;^)

Edited by MidoriFuse
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I'll be deadly blunt with this.

This suggested change is a half-assed way of fixing a mistake by DE.

So DE has admitted that with Founder Packs locking a major piece of content behind it was a bad idea as it pigeonholed them & prevents them from ever having a full series releasedm

(I am NOT saying give "you know who" to everyone. I 100% am for that content staying with those who bought it. I am bringing this up for a reason though as the log in system has created a similar situation.)

DE basically said that it put them in a rough spot & they are being cautious to avoid similar situations.

However the log-in reward system is flawed.

It's essentially a veteran reward system but DE made the Rookie mistake of placing legitimate gameplay changing/effecting items in it.

There is a reason why AAA developers made damn sure all Veteran rewards were cosmetic.

FF14 has Reskinned armor/mounts/clothes, unique armor/mounts/titles/accessories, & more.

EQ, WoW, and various other game do the same. Why? Because while the mount/armor/weapon skin/etc are exclusive to the vets they don't alter gameplay.

All mounts are ___ speed. Appearance is just that.

DE made the mistake of placing Prime Mods and actual Weapons behind the log in system.

They never should have been walked to begin with.

Those weapons should be attained from high level gameplay/modes.

Primed Mods should be attained like the other Primed Mods.

What DE should do impo:

1. Remove the Weapons & Primed Mods.

2. Replace them with very unique & interesting cosmetics (skins, glyphs, emblems, pallettes, companion skins/armor, warframe armor sets, Operator Armor Sets/Outfits, etc).

3. Place the removed mods & weapons into respective & appropriate content.

4. Reimburse veterans/players who already have the weapons & mods with unique skins, or a choice between Deluxe Skin Bundles or a Vaulted Accessory pack of their choosing.

This way DE has done the following:

1. Fixed the Log-In Rewards for the future.

2. Respected Veterans/players who log in everyday via reimbursal.

3. Created unique rewards that cannot be attained in game or via Plat/Market.

Edited by (PS4)Zero_029
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6 hours ago, MidoriFuse said:

Actually you can flat out buy most things already,it is even pretty hard for me to think of something i can not except log in rewards and founder items.
But the main difference is:you can catch-up even to something that is hard to grind eventually. 
But you can never catch up to log in rewards,just like Your 1 year old son would never be as old as you. Even after you die we can keep counting those years
"Midori fuse would be 350 years old today"

If you get 10 chocolote bars every day then after 100 days you have 1000chocolate bars
If after those 100 days I get 10chocolate bars every day too you will have always 1000cb more

We could wait million years and you would still have 1000cb more

You get the idea.
Meanwhile I could bake 1000chocolate bars in single day and catch up if it was grind ;^)

Again,if you get golden armor,most amazing sygil in the world,ship decoration. GOOD FOR YOU!

I believe I m not alone in this either,otherwise skin selling would not be considered the best way to monetizen f2p games in cosnumer's eyes.
While buy power on the other side that makes people boycott company and quit.


People do realize difference between those pretty easy.

"edit to your edit,as i've posted before i could see it"
Yes better wording would be "does not necessary relate"
For me it surely does not work,it may for someone but I have no such data and you provide no data of such kind either. So I'd join the agnostic side at best and give you my opinion that it may work for very,very few people in intended way at best.

I've based the comment on single anecdote i had in my inventory. 

One could argue "I m using myself as example" was clear enought at that. But there you go,reworded to objective hapiness of this universe ;^)

Alright. Thank you for your input.

I will highly take this into consideration in regards to my opinion on this subject.

I have some anecdotal evidence to the contrary too such as YT comments from people saying they are excited to the zenith or zenistar despite being x days away, though it's true for the opposite too.

In game I've gotten people saying "Whoah is that the Zenith?" and asked me what I thought about it at the time cause it was only recently added. And it felt like they were willing to wait to get it.

In the end I suppose wanting the system to remain as is is somewhat akin to the people that wanted the Braton and Lato Vandals to remain exclusives. Main difference being that those people wanted it to be unobtainable while here some people want these things to remain time gated because they were willing to put the time in.

In case it matters I've been playing this game for 3 years now religiously. And while currently I'm almost at 990 days with the log in system I mainly just get on, do the sorties, maybe open a riven and trade then get off. (The days I missed is because I got sick and 1 days I made a big mistake by verifying the cache before logging in, also the day 1 server lag of the update)

About it remaining strictly to cosmetics, while I agree. So far what they're put out on the cosmetic front for log ins has not been pressive. I'm not too much of a sigil person and having recently obtained the Targis Prime I feel like theres a strong possibility that I won't use the day 1000 reward.

 

Well, thank you for reading and replying to what I had to say here so far, I guess that's enough information for me on this subject for now.

 

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I'm all in for this new system (mostly for the MR points), tho I'm not sure how to feel about the trading part.

Even if this system does come around, veterans will still have more exclusive items than newer players, since I don't think we'll be able to trade syandanas/armors/sigils.

But placing weapons behind such system was never the way to go... I've played a few other online games with log-in systems, and none of them rewarded me with items that heavily affected gameplay or that was required for leveling. If it wasn't for these weapons and mods, the daily login system probably wouldn't even need a change.

I had made my peace with the system and accepted that I'd have to wait for what I wanted, just like I thought I would never get Lato Vandal and Braton Vandal for being beta stuff, but what do you know? DE actually made them available in a mode that requires a lot of work, instead of just handing them out like they did in the past. It feels good knowing that my mastery profile won't take two years to be complete.

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