Dying conclave

[(XBOX)Aeries Vendetta]

Can we get some sort of clarification on what is going to happen with conclave? 

At it's current pace, conclave is just being embarassingly neglected. So much potential is being squandered in not taking advantage of such high speed pvp. 

Slower games such as Call of duty, destiny 1+2, and battlefield make a killing in profits and overall activity and then I turn to the one game that would blow them both out of the water if they would just at least try. Instead we see DE doing.....nothing. 

If the devs are going to just straight cut conclave altogether can we, at least, get heads up before we waste our time further? 

[FLSH_BNG]

Conclave isn't particularly popular to begin with and was only ever brought into the game because of a loud minority of insistent players. There is a team at DE that are continuously working to maintain the mode's balance when new frames and weapons are introduced, but for the most part the mode isn't used enough to merit any further attention.

I do however doubt that the mode will be removed or cut from the game, because there are a significant number of dedicated players who have put a great deal of time and effort into it, and wiping it all away into nothingness. Not a great way to thank such players for their support.

[StinkyPygmy]

Because conclave is not the priority in a mostly PvE game and it's just horrible IMO (and apparently most peoples opinions too) in its current state.

WF is not a PvP friendly game purely by its design. It will probably get attention very slowly and gradually like always.

Edited August 19, 2018 by StinkyPygmy

[(XBOX)Aeries Vendetta]

It's not horrible. Its face paced and it's not easy to be good at like people want. 

People dont want to try that hard or practice to be good at something. 

It's not what it should be because digital extremes doesnt care.....

[(PSN)lokaspoka]

On 2018-08-19 at 5:18 PM, (XB1)Aeries Vendetta said:

Slower games such as Call of duty, destiny 1+2, and battlefield make a killing in profits and overall activity and then I turn to the one game that would blow them both out of the water if they would just at least try. Instead we see DE doing.....nothing. 

I

check my post out i wrote how the tiny map designs and the warframes that move at the speed of sound is bad idea.

the bullet jumping and rolling makes u need to robot accuracy to hit a player after 1 match this gets tiring.

they could also use 3d person shooter features like wall,hug,wall hug crouch, to shoot behind cover etc.

u got Splinter blacklist a PS3 game 4 years old game even that Pvp has players logging in and its 10x slower mobility than warframes.

 

[StinkyPygmy]

On 2018-08-20 at 7:46 PM, (XB1)Aeries Vendetta said:

It's not horrible. Its face paced and it's not easy to be good at like people want. 

People dont want to try that hard or practice to be good at something. 

It's not what it should be because digital extremes doesnt care.....

Which is why I said "IMO". Obviously it's up for debate and based on individual preference.

The point is a vast majority of the community seem to hate conclave with a  burning passion because it's still poorly designed and unenjoyable, without the proper infrastructure to support it. It also has never been the focus of WF and likely won't be, because the general playerbase doesn't play WF for PvP that doesn't even translate well due to the games mechanics and player power.

DE doesn't prioritise conclave, because it would straight up be a waste of resources when hardly anyone will play it. When i want PvP, i go play siege. that's significantly more fast paced then conclave.

Edited August 21, 2018 by StinkyPygmy

[(XBOX)Aeries Vendetta]

As it stands, sure. If de decided to put forth some effort into it I would have little doubt it would dwarf the other pvp modes of other games. 

[MysticDragonMage]

here is what i think needs to happen.

i think all weapons need their stats reworked by type. if it is a bow, it should have the same stats as all other bows. if it is a special weapon like the Daikyu (similar to a bow), then it be considered as a different type of weapon or it just needs to be considered as just a bow with the same stats and regular bow mechanics.

chance-based stats need to go. this applies luck in a completely unpredictable way. crit should only apply to headshots.

all warframe stats need to be the same. same armor. same health, and same shields, same mobility. warframe abilities and passives need to be the only thing that defines a warframe's role. you can play rhino and still be a tank with iron skin as an ability. you can play as volt and still be mobile with abilities like speed.

maybe energy needs a rework. perhaps cooldowns instead. too many times have other players hogged all of the energy wells and spammed abilities like crazy.

 

[DarkwarriorJ]

14 hours ago, MysticDragonMage said:

here is what i think needs to happen.

i think all weapons need their stats reworked by type. if it is a bow, it should have the same stats as all other bows. if it is a special weapon like the Daikyu (similar to a bow), then it be considered as a different type of weapon or it just needs to be considered as just a bow with the same stats and regular bow mechanics.

chance-based stats need to go. this applies luck in a completely unpredictable way. crit should only apply to headshots.

all warframe stats need to be the same. same armor. same health, and same shields, same mobility. warframe abilities and passives need to be the only thing that defines a warframe's role. you can play rhino and still be a tank with iron skin as an ability. you can play as volt and still be mobile with abilities like speed.

maybe energy needs a rework. perhaps cooldowns instead. too many times have other players hogged all of the energy wells and spammed abilities like crazy.

 

1. Why? Why normalize all the weapons to the same stats and mechanics per weapon type, thereby utterly destroying any weapon diversity? What is the purpose behind this? If it is for the sake of weapons balance, weapons have already been balanced without destructively destroying weapons characteristics and uniqueness.

2. You're several years too late. This is already done; also crit doesn't even apply to headshots; headshots just have an innate multiplier.

3. See number 1.

4. I have yet to see this energy well hogging phenomenon that you've described, though that may due to be limited experience. In my experience, abilities are rarely spammed and don't tend to make much of an impact in Conclave. Conclave has a strange two-part system to energy already, where you passive regenerate energy and you can pick up more from the wells, so even if the wells are always dry, you can still pull out your abilities when needed.

[MysticDragonMage]

30 minutes ago, DarkwarriorJ said:

1. Why? Why normalize all the weapons to the same stats and mechanics per weapon type, thereby utterly destroying any weapon diversity? What is the purpose behind this? If it is for the sake of weapons balance, weapons have already been balanced without destructively destroying weapons characteristics and uniqueness.

and just how many weapon types are there? i think there would still be a lot of weapon diversity even with this change. to increase weapon "type" diversity, weapons like the lex and the lato wont be the same weapon type.

30 minutes ago, DarkwarriorJ said:

2. You're several years too late. This is already done; also crit doesn't even apply to headshots; headshots just have an innate multiplier.

my bad

30 minutes ago, DarkwarriorJ said:

3. See number 1.

again, you can still play rhino and still be a tank role with his abilities alone. but why even play rhino to be tanky in the first place when Valkyr has more armor? rhino is has his armor lower because of his iron skin. how is that fair? i think if all warframes had the same armor, shields, health, and mobility, their abilities would be much easier to balance and their abilities would define their role.

30 minutes ago, DarkwarriorJ said:

4. I have yet to see this energy well hogging phenomenon that you've described, though that may due to be limited experience. In my experience, abilities are rarely spammed and don't tend to make much of an impact in Conclave. Conclave has a strange two-part system to energy already, where you passive regenerate energy and you can pick up more from the wells, so even if the wells are always dry, you can still pull out your abilities when needed.

lucky you. + waiting for your energy to regenerate does not put you at a better advantage against players that hog the energy wells.

Edited August 24, 2018 by MysticDragonMage

[DarkwarriorJ]

18 minutes ago, MysticDragonMage said:

and just how many weapon types are there? to increase weapon "type" diversity, weapons like the lex and the lato wont be the same weapon type.

my bad

again, you can still play rhino and still be a tank role with his abilities alone. but why even play rhino to be tanky in the first place when Valkyr has more armor? rhino is has his armor lower because of his iron skin. how is that fair? i think if all warframes had the same armor, shields, health, and mobility, their abilities would be much easier to balance and their abilities would define their role.

lucky you. + waiting for your energy to regenerate does not put you at a better advantage against players that hog the energy wells.

1. So...  what weapons would be made identical, and what would be made different then? Lex and Lato are not the same - what about Cernos Prime and Dread? Sobek and Strun? Vulkar and Lanka? If they are all different types, what about Rubico and Vulkar? Twin Grakatas and the Akzani? More important, back to the original question, why? What is it that you mean by it, and for what purpose?

2. NP.

3. This one's tough to say, and is probably a difference in philosophy. PvE already balances some warframes out starting from their stats, and so this carried over to PvP, if in a blunted war (Valk only has 200 armor in Conclave as opposed to 900 in PvE, for example). Even so, no one is a particularly good tank in the Conclave, as far as I've noticed; dodging/jinking gives survivability, and the difference between 100 and 200 armor isn't very noticeable when half you survivability really depends on your shields - of which Rhino has more.

I mean, I don't see what's particularly unfair about how things are right now, can you give a more direct point to it? For one, I'm unconvinced Rhino isn't tankier than Valkyr - he has 165 shields to Valk's 115, and Valk's 100 additional armor gives her 15% more effective health than Rhino, translating to 154 HP compared to Rhino's 138 HP. Going by that, Rhino IS actually more tanky, and by means of shields which naturally regenerate, to boot. By this metric, even before abilities, Rhino is tankier. And Rhino isn't even a tank! (At least in PvE, I've been convinced that's not precisely his role; he's a tanky support.)

4. It doesn't, but there is a skill and risk involved in trying to hog the energy wells - it draws you to the center of attention and makes you predictable. Admittedly, not really that big of a drawback in the free for all chaos, but I don't see why they shouldn't have an advantage. Wells are locations to be controlled - the hills of king of the hill, effectively. I don't see why this is a bad thing.

Edited August 24, 2018 by DarkwarriorJ

[(PSN)Soul_Brer]

I have great idea to improve conclave/ pvp. Taking the  Grineer vs Corpus concept but adding two teams of four warframes. One team is with the Grineer and other is with the Corpus giving both  objectives such as, 1. Spy pvp  wherein  team one defends while team two attempts to obtain the info within certain time frame ( only 1 life per round) , 2. Sabotage pvp both teams attack n defend attempting to sabotage the other teams  fuel lines etc etc, 3. Archwing pvp  as archwing team death match and finally 4.  Stalker pvp where 1 player enters  with  pve  warframe mods build of his making including weapons vs team of four warframes with pvp mode mod based builds must capture him ( siphon traps etc) within a limited time frame. Just some ideas to help pvp grow into best it can be. Oh and one more idea what if you introduce a MOBA like pvp mode with towers , minions  and a unique twist on  lanes.

[Drejzer]

On 2018-08-26 at 12:34 AM, (PS4)Barnabas120 said:

I have great idea to improve conclave/ pvp. Taking the  Grineer vs Corpus concept but adding two teams of four warframes. One team is with the Grineer and other is with the Corpus giving both  objectives such as, 1. Spy pvp  wherein  team one defends while team two attempts to obtain the info within certain time frame ( only 1 life per round) , 2. Sabotage pvp both teams attack n defend attempting to sabotage the other teams  fuel lines etc etc, 3. Archwing pvp  as archwing team death match and finally 4.  Stalker pvp where 1 player enters  with  pve  warframe mods build of his making including weapons vs team of four warframes with pvp mode mod based builds must capture him ( siphon traps etc) within a limited time frame. Just some ideas to help pvp grow into best it can be. Oh and one more idea what if you introduce a MOBA like pvp mode with towers , minions  and a unique twist on  lanes.

It kinda reminds me of Rail Conflicts... those were nice times... and a neat way to get lots of credits.

[(PSN)Xx-Ribbium-xX]

Bump

[(PSN)Xx-Ribbium-xX]

I would keep updating this thread to get more attention 

[Unicornu]

I'm currently playing conclave now for syandana and vice versa. From what i experienced:

- very little, close to non existent introduction

- no care from DE about using autoaim cheats and bots ( i did even find a site that offers whole pack of those things for farming and easy PvP)

- half of frames skills are not even changed for PvP, trinity for example

- using mods doesn't really change anything if u get better, personally i would remove mods completly

- scoring system is just really weird. Spending a 10 mins TDM, ending up with a score lets say 9-10 so sounds like a good balanced match, yet i'm getting 300 points, really? So conclave at this point would reward me much richer if i would just camp the duck out of people to get a bunch of Oro instead of trying engange a fair good fight or afk in Lunaro. I do agree, skill  should be rewarded but balance the rest too. Maybe if player base would be bigger there wouldn't exist such a huge gap between getting 5k points and then 300.

- rewards are not interesting at all

Base of Pvp is ok but they need to adjust all frames skills there, rethink mods and weapons, add new rewards, anti cheating protection and maybe the curse will be broken one day.

 

 

[VanLyrr]

I don't think DE has any more plans for conclave for now. I don't even know if the original conclave development team is still complete. They've tried to give it attention before, with the Quick Steel and Hearts & Arrows events. I think those were well received but afaik didn't sustain new players. I think people liked it because of snowball-only; opticor-only; nikana-only modes. I don't understand why they didn't keep those in. On the other hand there were people complaining they were "forced" to do pvp for those events. So, like, what are you gonna do, right? Always gonna be people complaining. 

[Triplinster]

2 hours ago, Unicornu said:

- no care from DE about using autoaim cheats and bots ( i did even find a site that offers whole pack of those things for farming and easy PvP)

That is not true. Me and a couple of other people in the community have been reporting players with evidence to DE. They do take action against such players.
 

2 hours ago, Unicornu said:

- using mods doesn't really change anything if u get better, personally i would remove mods completly

Yes mods won't change much. That's not a problem. PvP is meant to be about self-improvement instead of gear setup. Mods are fine as they are. Except for burst weapon augments maybe.

[Unicornu]

Another thing worth mentioning is how the TDM and game system 80% of time adds additional player for the WINNING team. If there is 3v3 and one player arrives he should be put on spectator mode until one more person arrives so teams are mostly even. 

I also had situations when one team was obviously better with scores like 40-10 the system somewhat forgot to shuffle players before next match...

Some frames abilities are extremely cheesy. Frost and Vauban 4 are pretty much impossible to avoid if used in close range and insta kill you (Yes, vauban 4th insta kill player in close range and cast time is insta). This should be deeply reconsidered. Good example of fair ability is Nyx 4th. If noticed player has actually time to escape from range so skill itself needs a bit of tactic, not just cheesy spam especially of how easily is to gather energy around. No ability should be 1 insta shot kill. So either make energy harder to reach 100 or rework all the abilities.

 

[ant99999]

18 часов назад, Unicornu сказал:

Another thing worth mentioning is how the TDM and game system 80% of time adds additional player for the WINNING team. If there is 3v3 and one player arrives he should be put on spectator mode until one more person arrives so teams are mostly even. 

Sure, balancing system might be much better, but looking from another perspective, you can spend a couple (dozens) of minutes waiting for a match even now, imagine being put in spectator mode after that. I'd be frustrated personally. The thing is that you must first have a decent playerbase to make a balancer like this.

18 часов назад, Unicornu сказал:

Some frames abilities are extremely cheesy. Frost and Vauban 4 are pretty much impossible to avoid if used in close range and insta kill you (Yes, vauban 4th insta kill player in close range and cast time is insta). This should be deeply reconsidered. Good example of fair ability is Nyx 4th. If noticed player has actually time to escape from range so skill itself needs a bit of tactic, not just cheesy spam especially of how easily is to gather energy around. No ability should be 1 insta shot kill. So either make energy harder to reach 100 or rework all the abilities.

Not a balance specialist, thoigh I can suppose that usually the more powerful an ability is, the slower it is to cast or the smaller the radius is. The idea here is to utilize different tactics facing different warframes. Facing Vauban for example, you should keep distance avoiding close combat and melee as all of his abilities are extremely close range and also pay attention on the animations to dodge his balls of doom. Maybe here or there the balance is imperfect, but it doesn't mean that no ability should be able to one shot.

[BloodArmoredApostle]

I would like to be able to farm for the skins, and I can't get anymore standing after hitting tempest being MR23 doesn't help since queing has been changed. It is just frustrating to see things that you can't even obtain due to lack of players playing it. They should either scrap conclave or allow the skins to be obtained some other method. The rewards are nice locked behind a wall none can obtain except with clan mates which is not even cool to the slightest.

[Kraitharch]

On 2018-08-19 at 7:18 PM, (XB1)Aeries Vendetta said:

Can we get some sort of clarification on what is going to happen with conclave? 

At it's current pace, conclave is just being embarassingly neglected. So much potential is being squandered in not taking advantage of such high speed pvp. 

Slower games such as Call of duty, destiny 1+2, and battlefield make a killing in profits and overall activity and then I turn to the one game that would blow them both out of the water if they would just at least try. Instead we see DE doing.....nothing. 

If the devs are going to just straight cut conclave altogether can we, at least, get heads up before we waste our time further? 

No demand - no supply) Conclave would get much more attention from DE if this game mode would be initially popular, but PvP isn't the reason why people play this game. 

Warframe is co-op PvE game by design and it draws attention of corresponding auditorium. It also explains very low toxicity level of community - we don't fight each other here, we assist each other instead 🙂 

Edited September 25, 2018 by Kraitharch

[(PSN)Xx-Ribbium-xX]

still no response from DE on this thread 

[W3zeer]

Just a quite whisper from the Trials saying "I'm waiting for you, Conclave..." 😉

[Gnohme]

People keep referencing the conclave as this "fast-paced deathmatch game" - idk. Is conclave really that fast-paced though? Everyone will disagree as they always do, I've always felt like they haven't gone far enough in that direction. If anyone here really thinks that the problem is the game is "too fast" - like what? Literally if you made it any slower it certainly would be going at the pace of a Call of Duty or Battlefield. It's not that much faster at least in raw movement velocity, and if it's slowed down anymore to make shooting even easer in a game that has hitscan weapons - I'm definitely not touching it again. Sure the action is more three dimensional and you have all these moves, but sometimes I just feel like nothing really propels me forward like I want it to. Slide needs to be de-gimped for one, or I'd prefer we change the name of it to "brake" in conclave. Cause that's all you're doing, skidding to a halt. If you disagree I'd love to hear why. It seems like a fair tradeoff, a slight momentary boost in speed, reduced hitbox, but a loss of directional control for the duration of it. I feel like the current state of things causes people to rely far too much on air-rolling which is just - I don't know, it's a weird thing the air roll. If people bulletjumping a lot is a problem for you why don't you, I don't know, switch up your tactics a little? I don't find it that hard to shoot people who are jumping around, and I use the harpak which fires traveling projectiles.